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Old 10-10-2018, 04:11 PM
CLASSIC12 CLASSIC12 is offline
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Default Colt M16 A1

Saw an ad for a Colt M16 A1 on Monday. Called the seller and we met today.

He is a soon to be retired 57 y.o. Lt. Col. in the Swiss army. He likes his toys, he also showed me a Thompson M1, a Sig 551 commando, G18, Norinco 56, all full auto, and a multitude of other stuff.

He bought the M16 over 20 years ago, shot it FA a few times at the military range, but hasn’t shot it in ages.

Some obvious wear on it, but rifing is strong, doesn’t seem to have shot tens of thousands of full auto rounds.









I haven’t seen those sights before



One broken tooth



Inside



BCG







Hammer



Furniture









The mag seems quite vintage too, with the metal follower







I think serial number puts production in 1972, although the serial number does not appear





Wonder if it saw action in VN. And how the hell did it land here in Switzerland.

Anyway, seller advertised it at 2500, I offered 2 k round figure. We settled on 2100. The wait for the license begins.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Wonder if it saw action in VN. And how the hell did it land here in Switzerland.
That's neat.

Perhaps it was captured in SVN, and made it way to Switzerland through the Com Bloc world. But I know nothing about how such a thing might have happened. I'm sure you know more about rather those things are even possible.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:50 PM
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You sure do find some neat stuff over there in Switzerland! Full auto rifles are available here but are crazy expensive, like house buying money expensive.

I'd buy a full auto M-16 A-1 for $2100 any day!
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:53 PM
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Just noticed these marks, is that a star of David ? Did Israel get US Property marked M16s ?

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Old 10-10-2018, 06:25 PM
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$2100 for an M16? The thought sounds utterly absurd in my mind
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:38 PM
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The price of machine guns in the U.S. is unconstitutional. This is due to the amendment added to firearms owners safety act of 1986, which banned any full auto after the signing of the bill into law. If a case was argued in front of the present U.S. Supreme Court, the law would not stand on it's merits. A great argument is that only the rich can afford full auto in violation of the Justices own oath, the second would be "shall not be infringed", but besides all that, great rifle, great price, enjoy the heck out of it.

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Old 10-10-2018, 08:44 PM
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Very, very cool. Way too expensive for most of us over here. You got a screaming deal.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:48 PM
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Classic12, That's a nice M16A1 and will be a lot of fun for you once you get the license sorted out. Congratulations!

By the way, did you see the Swiss Parabellum carbine I posted several months ago? I thought you might be interested to see it. Here's the link:
DWM 1902 Carbine - 7.65mm ~ S/N 50100



Curl

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Old 10-10-2018, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
Saw an ad for a Colt M16 A1 on Monday. Called the seller and we met today.

He is a soon to be retired 57 y.o. Lt. Col. in the Swiss army. He likes his toys, he also showed me a Thompson M1, a Sig 551 commando, G18, Norinco 56, all full auto, and a multitude of other stuff.

He bought the M16 over 20 years ago, shot it FA a few times at the military range, but hasn’t shot it in ages.

Some obvious wear on it, but rifing is strong, doesn’t seem to have shot tens of thousands of full auto rounds.









I haven’t seen those sights before



One broken tooth



Inside



BCG







Hammer



Furniture









The mag seems quite vintage too, with the metal follower







I think serial number puts production in 1972, although the serial number does not appear





Wonder if it saw action in VN. And how the hell did it land here in Switzerland.

Anyway, seller advertised it at 2500, I offered 2 k round figure. We settled on 2100. The wait for the license begins.
CONGRATULATIONS---THAT'S MY OLD FRIEND. IT LOOKS TO BE IN VERY GOOD SHAPE....

I WISH IT COULD NARRATE ITS INTERESTING LIFE'S STORY......

THANKS FOR THE GREAT PICTURES, AND THE DETAILED INFORMATION.......
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 166857_189938231021672_8261468_n.jpg (61.6 KB, 160 views)
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:11 PM
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Very nice, too bad that one cant talk as it likely could tell some interesting stories .

On a side note Colt has recently began producing semi auto copies of the old M16A1 and charging about the same price as you paid for the real McCoy.
Colt's Manufacturing LLC

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Old 10-10-2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Very nice, too bad that one cant talk as it likely could tell some interesting stories .

On a side note Colt has recently began producing semi auto copies of the old M16A1 and charging about the same price as you paid for the real McCoy.
Colt's Manufacturing LLC

AAAAHH, THAT IS SWEET ! ! !

IN CIVILIAN LIFE I GRAVITATED TO BUSHMASTERS, BECAUSE OF THE VARIETY OF MODELS, FROM BULL PUPS TO VARMINTERS. I OWNED BOTH--AND SOME IN BETWEEN. AT THE TIME, THEY WERE MANUFACTURED IN THE ORIGINAL FACILITY IN WINDHAM, ME. BEFORE ITS SALE. I KNOW THAT FORMER EMPLOYEES ARE CURRENTLY MANUFACTURING RIFLES FROM THAT FACTORY, UNDER THE BRAND NAME WINDHAM ARMS.....

IN ANY EVENT, I AM A LONG TIME SHOOTER AND FAN OF COLT FIREARMS. AS SUCH, I APPLAUD ANY EFFORTS TO KEEP IT ALIVE, BY REINTRODUCING PRODUCTS INTO THE MARKETPLACE.......
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:58 PM
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Remove the hand guard and see if it is stamped "Matel Manufactue Co." or words to that effect. Mine did.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
The price of machine guns in the U.S. is unconstitutional.....

Unconstitutional? How about disgusting? My son wants me to buy a Thompson. Either a 1921AC or a 1928AC. That will happen when my loving son gives me $30,000 to start looking, and I don't expect that to happen in my life time.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:05 AM
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Remove the hand guard and see if it is stamped "Matel Manufactue Co." or words to that effect. Mine did.
LOL ! ! ! ALL OF THE AK-47s THAT I HANDLED IN VIETNAM, WERE MADE IN CHINA..........
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:22 AM
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After the Vietnam War ended the captured ar's were sent all over the world. Probably some were sent to the middle east and maybe captured where they aquired the Hebrew markings. How it finally made it to Switerland is anyones guess. Frank
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:07 AM
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Looks like a genuine Mattel rifle.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:03 AM
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With a machine gun license (takes some time, but surprisingly not too hard to get in this state), a full-auto M16 can be had for $18K -$20K. That collection would put you back ~$150K+. Great score, congratulations.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptCurl View Post
Classic12, That's a nice M16A1 and will be a lot of fun for you once you get the license sorted out. Congratulations!



By the way, did you see the Swiss Parabellum carbine I posted several months ago? I thought you might be interested to see it. Here's the link:

DWM 1902 Carbine - 7.65mm ~ S/N 50100







Curl


I missed your post, and I am glad you linked it here, absolutely incredible gun and knowledge you displayed there.

As a German living in Switzerland and regularly shooting my mil surp 06/24 Parabellum I can certainly relate.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
CONGRATULATIONS---THAT'S MY OLD FRIEND. IT LOOKS TO BE IN VERY GOOD SHAPE....

I WISH IT COULD NARRATE ITS INTERESTING LIFE'S STORY......

THANKS FOR THE GREAT PICTURES, AND THE DETAILED INFORMATION.......


Is that you in the picture? Great photo. Even the sling looks identical.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Very nice, too bad that one cant talk as it likely could tell some interesting stories .

On a side note Colt has recently began producing semi auto copies of the old M16A1 and charging about the same price as you paid for the real McCoy.
Colt's Manufacturing LLC



I saw that, the MSRP is actually 400 more. I find that to be on the high side.

SP1 sell for 1200-2000 here depending on condition and accessories. Paid 1500 for mine.

Same with Thompson, bought my genuine 1941 full auto for 2200 three years ago. The modern semi auto only repro by Kahr is sold 2700 here. Pretty easy decision.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:42 AM
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Remove the hand guard and see if it is stamped "Matel Manufactue Co." or words to that effect. Mine did.


Is that serious, or you’re joking with me ?
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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Unconstitutional? How about disgusting? My son wants me to buy a Thompson. Either a 1921AC or a 1928AC. That will happen when my loving son gives me $30,000 to start looking, and I don't expect that to happen in my life time.

I can understand the frustration, bought my 1928 A1 (British lend lease) for 2200 three years ago

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Old 08-18-2019, 08:09 AM
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I just realised I omitted to post better pictures since it came home last October, so here goes :























I shot in full auto and the barrel took this yellow hue, since there’s virtually no finish left on it











Magazine







With its little sibling (XM177E2)


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Old 08-18-2019, 08:30 AM
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Legend has it that the hand guard of the first M16's was made by Mattel. Some Vietnam-era soldiers vehemently swear that their hand guard was stamped Mattel. Others swear equally vehemently that Mattel had no part in it. It's mostly the stuff of argument on the various gun forums. Snopes has a discussion about it, stating that the first versions of the handgrip were stamped Mattel, and the later versions, while still made by Mattel, were not stamped. I've never seen one stamped, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen . . .

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Is that serious, or you’re joking with me ?
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:48 AM
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Mattel once made a replica toy rifle. People who liked military arms made primarily of steel and walnut called the issue guns Mattel rifles.

M16's are pretty dull guns to shoot in automatic mode, and full auto rifles and carbines in general have extremely limited utility in that mode. That said, in the U.S. people should be able to own guns made prior to 1986. It's flatly unconstitutional.

To own a "post" example one would have to become a machine gun manufacturer paying a special occupational tax. That's a bit ridiculous. These days you need a storefront to do such things.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:14 AM
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The only M16 anything actually made Mattel.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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The only M16 anything actually made Mattel.
One of the toys I had as a youngster! I wish I still had it, these things are very collectable today.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:29 AM
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That is quite an early M16A1. Certainly made on US military contract; probably went astray somewhere along the line and ended up in private hands.

At least until 1971 or so production of M16 rifles remained insufficient to meet all military demands. Initial priorities caused nearly all production to be delivered to US forces in Vietnam. It was only later that inventories were sufficient to transition US forces in Europe and elsewhere to the new rifles (and some units in Europe were still armed with M1 rifles, not having received the "new" M14 rifles before those were phased out in favor of the M16). There were certainly plenty of US M16A1 rifles in Europe from the early 1970's onward until the A2 variant became standard issue, and more than a few disappeared through pilfering and black market trading. Probably more were provided to other NATO forces for evaluation and/or familiarization training, and final disposition of those rifles would have been beyond US control.

The 6-pointed star may be nothing more than an inspector's stamp. While most recognized as the Star of David, this was always a popular symbol in other uses.

I trained with the M14 in 1968. Only experience I received with the M16 was a brief familiarization during Infantry AIT before going to Vietnam. US forces in Vietnam had M16 rifles in general issue at that time, and I recall being somewhat uncomfortable with the M16 due to minimal training and experience with the rifle, at least until I acquired sufficient experience and trust in the weapon.

Full auto fire was generally discouraged. We were trained to use semi-auto almost exclusively, both to conserve ammunition and to encourage controlled and accurate fire. The common exceptions were targets at extended range and moving targets, for which full auto can increase the probability of hits.

By my second Vietnam tour the original M16's were being phased out and replaced by the M16A1's. The first A1 I was issued was not a Colt; it was manufactured by General Motors Hydramatic Division. After the learning curve (proper cleaning & lubrication) I became quite comfortable with it, but I was never as confident as I had been with the M14.

The 20-round magazines were the only type available at that time. Interestingly, we found that when fully loaded with 20 rounds the incidence of feeding jams was fairly common. We loaded our magazines with 18 rounds to avoid that problem. Many of us preferred to load our magazines with one tracer followed by 4 ball, then one tracer and 4 ball, another tracer and 4 ball, finally 3 tracer rounds. This served as a signal to the rifleman that he had emptied the magazine and it was time to reload the rifle (something that is not always easy to keep track of during a firefight).

On the OP's rifle I notice that the rear sight aperture is different than any I saw on the rifles I was issued. I am not sure why that would be, as the M16A1 featured a folding two-leaf rear sight aperture designed to provide accurate fire to 250 meters on the primary setting, and "long range" with the other aperture (maximum effective range of the rifle was considered to be 360 meters, approx. 400 yards). I don't recall ever using the "long range" aperture; even at range qualifications with targets out to 360 meters I just used the standard aperture and adjusted my aim for the longer range targets.

Thanks for posting! A little stroll down memory lane.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:44 PM
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Nice gun. Reminds me of my H&R M203 when I was in the Army.

As an aside - You can see the John Wayne with the Mattell M16 in some sceens of the Green Berets movie. I guess there weren't enough real guns to go around.
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:47 PM
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My father-in-law (Phil Cartwright) was the Works Manager at the Hydra-matic plant in 1961, and was directly responsible for rounding up all the machining tooling and equipment to produce those 480,000 M16A1's, and his team originated the unique bore chroming process that extended barrel life on the A1. We didn't see much of Phil for many months as the production layout for the M16A1 was developed and de-bugged.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Legend has it that the hand guard of the first M16's was made by Mattel. Some Vietnam-era soldiers vehemently swear that their hand guard was stamped Mattel. Others swear equally vehemently that Mattel had no part in it. It's mostly the stuff of argument on the various gun forums. Snopes has a discussion about it, stating that the first versions of the handgrip were stamped Mattel, and the later versions, while still made by Mattel, were not stamped. I've never seen one stamped, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen . . .
I’ve never believed that Mattel ever actually mfg’d any M16 parts and most truly knowledgeable authorities hold that they didn’t. I don’t recall any mention of Mattel in the Ezell and Stevens work “The Black Rifle: M16 Retrospective,” by CGP.

It’s a cool story, but I believe it is just that, a story.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:26 PM
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Kinda like how many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know . . .

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I’ve never believed that Mattel ever actually mfg’d any M16 parts and most truly knowledgeable authorities hold that they didn’t. I don’t recall any mention of Mattel in the Ezell and Stevens work “The Black Rifle: M16 Retrospective,” by CGP.

It’s a cool story, but I believe it is just that, a story.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:10 PM
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Note the lack of a shell deflector. Don't try to shoot one left handed and don't trust the flimsy clip on. Didn't even get a T-shirt, just a few scars. That was over 50 years ago and would not buy or shoot an AR until 5 years ago when I bought one with left hand ejection.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick_A View Post
The only M16 anything actually made Mattel.
The magazine on that thing looks like it would hold .458 Winchester Mag rounds! Those must have been the big bore version of the AR
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:23 PM
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I think the rear sight isn't right...not from my memory. The correct one was a flip-up peep for close and far ranges...different size peeps. But that's the only thing I see that isn't quite right. I think the Mattel thing is a rumor. It wasn't a rumor (I don't think) in 68-69, that I heard.) Mine was made by GM, same handguards but they weren't shiny like the earlier ones. Wonderful gun, and very lightweight. They had about a 12-twist, IIRC, for the 55-gr. bullets.

The Army used to publish comic book style maintenance booklets in bright colors and featuring sometimes a busty blonde, scantily clad. Wish I had one now.

The ones we had did not have a chrome-lined bore. Or the chrome bolts. The bolt retaining pin on early ones weren't keys, they were solid pins with a cone-shaped top, but these were quickly withdrawn and replaced with the key. And didn't have a trap in the butt, at least the earlier ones. Maybe later than 1969, mine had a Rubber butt pad. We got a nylon-bag cleaning kit we carried in our rucks.

As posted above, in 67 we trained with the M 14 and my first introduction to the M 16A1 was in Vietnam. In 68. My first one was what we called a Kar 15, which had a short barrel with a big flash guard and a collapsible stock. It jammed, got rid of it.

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Old 08-18-2019, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
I think the rear sight isn't right...not from my memory. The correct one was a flip-up peep for close and far ranges...different size peeps. But that's the only thing I see that isn't quite right. I think the Mattel thing is a rumor. It wasn't a rumor (I don't think) in 68-69, that I heard.) Mine was made by GM, same handguards but they weren't shiny like the earlier ones. Wonderful gun, and very lightweight. They had about a 12-twist, IIRC, for the 55-gr. bullets.

The Army used to publish comic book style maintenance booklets in bright colors and featuring sometimes a busty blonde, scantily clad. Wish I had one now.

The ones we had did not have a chrome-lined bore. Or the chrome bolts. The bolt retaining pin on early ones weren't keys, they were solid pins with a cone-shaped top, but these were quickly withdrawn and replaced with the key. And didn't have a trap in the butt, at least the earlier ones. Maybe later than 1969, mine had a Rubber butt pad. We got a nylon-bag cleaning kit we carried in our rucks.

As posted above, in 67 we trained with the M 14 and my first introduction to the M 16A1 was in Vietnam. In 68. My first one was what we called a Kar 15, which had a short barrel with a big flash guard and a collapsible stock. It jammed, got rid of it.
Yes, the CAR-15 was the original "Jam-O-Matic". Apparently there was not enough R&D done to tune the gas operating system (gas port, gas tube, etc) for the shorter barrel length. The lengthy flash suppressor was necessary because of the extreme flash created by the powder charge, which was geared more toward properly launching bullets through the standard 20" barrel instead of the CAR-15's shorter tube (12" or 14", plus suppressor as I recall). The CAR-15's were very popular with rear echelon units that wanted to look all "combat" everywhere they went (in their starched and pressed camo fatigues and boonie hats, which most combat units never saw issued), but actual combat units wanted nothing to do with them.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:48 PM
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We had boonie hats, later camo fatigues....I was a Recon Plt. Leader, (after a rifle platoon leader) and we had to obtain ours by outside the supply line sources for the cammies which weren't standard at the time. I don't know why, they were really helpful.

There were two types of boonie hats...the first was OD and had a narrower brim, not all that narrow, but less than the Cammie one we had later on (and which I still have an example of.) It's brim is a lot bigger and great for keeping the rain off. As I recall, we all had them. And wore them on operations, which rifle platoons wore helmets. Go figure.

I got rid of the Car 15 very early in my tour. It was cool looking, but not very accurate. The only time I fired it in duress, it didn't malfunction...one magazine.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
I think the rear sight isn't right...not from my memory. The correct one was a flip-up peep for close and far ranges...different size peeps. But that's the only thing I see that isn't quite right. I think the Mattel thing is a rumor. It wasn't a rumor (I don't think) in 68-69, that I heard.) Mine was made by GM,

The Army used to publish comic book style maintenance booklets in bright colors and featuring sometimes a busty blonde, scantily clad. Wish I had one now.
Connie PM!

There's pdf's of the old PM comic/magazines, on line.
My AIT rifle at Benning was a GM Hydramatic, too.
I seem to recall one or two guys in my platoon having
what looked like a chrome-plated bolt carrier (with chips
flaked off, here and there). Pushing forty years tho,
might be disrecollecting...

Concur on rear sight. Top edge was round, tho that one
looks like it might be flat to clear the receiver, where it lays
down...? Would be interesting to see the rear sight rotated
back, to see how it lays in, and to show the forward leaf.
Typically, one was marked "L" and the other "0-250" or
"250" (CRS in effect).

The gas ring (?) on bolt looks different, too. Norm was three
thin rings, but that one looks like a single fat ring. Maybe
someone jerry-rigged a replacement, when original rings
wore out, and correct parts weren't available?

Maybe the rear sight is a non-spec replacement, too...?

Definitely seen a lot of carrying, by the lack of parkerizing
(everywhere!) and the worn anodizing, on high spots.

Nice catch, Classic12!
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:01 AM
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F.Y.I., the UI logo on the front of the mag is Universal Industries. They were the subcontractor back in the day that manufactured the 20rd mags for Colt. I bought an AR15 (SP1) new in the box in 1972. It came with (2) 20rd mags, blocked to 5rds. These mags came from Colt with Universal Industries marked floorplates. I still have them. Apparently, at that time, all Colt marked floorplates were going to the military.

That is an awesome looking pair of Colts you have there. I especially like the US Property marking. What does the paperwork consist of there and how long does it usually take to go through the process?

By the way the coloration of the barrel is due to bare metal subjected to high heat. The metal tends to oxidize somewhat during the cooling of the barrel. Totally normal and adds to the overall character of the rifle. Well done!
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_A View Post
Mattel once made a replica toy rifle. People who liked military arms made primarily of steel and walnut called the issue guns Mattel rifles.

M16's are pretty dull guns to shoot in automatic mode, and full auto rifles and carbines in general have extremely limited utility in that mode. That said, in the U.S. people should be able to own guns made prior to 1986. It's flatly unconstitutional.

To own a "post" example one would have to become a machine gun manufacturer paying a special occupational tax. That's a bit ridiculous. These days you need a storefront to do such things.

I won’t argue on the utility of full auto fire, but I beg to differ on the fun factor, I had a ton of fun shooting it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:11 AM
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Israel got planeloads of U.S. weapons during the Yom Kippur war. Google "Operation Nickel Grass".That's at least one way it could have gotten Israeli proofmarks.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
I think the rear sight isn't right...not from my memory. The correct one was a flip-up peep for close and far ranges...different size peeps. But that's the only thing I see that isn't quite right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
On the OP's rifle I notice that the rear sight aperture is different than any I saw on the rifles I was issued. I am not sure why that would be, as the M16A1 featured a folding two-leaf rear sight aperture designed to provide accurate fire to 250 meters on the primary setting, and "long range" with the other aperture (maximum effective range of the rifle was considered to be 360 meters, approx. 400 yards). I don't recall ever using the "long range" aperture; even at range qualifications with targets out to 360 meters I just used the standard aperture and adjusted my aim for the longer range targets.

Thanks for posting! A little stroll down memory lane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
Concur on rear sight. Top edge was round, tho that one looks like it might be flat to clear the receiver, where it lays down...? Would be interesting to see the rear sight rotated back, to see how it lays in, and to show the forward leaf.

Typically, one was marked "L" and the other "0-250" or

"250" (CRS in effect).



The gas ring (?) on bolt looks different, too. Norm was three

thin rings, but that one looks like a single fat ring. Maybe

someone jerry-rigged a replacement, when original rings

wore out, and correct parts weren't available?



Maybe the rear sight is a non-spec replacement, too...?


Thanks to all for the infos, memories and great stories.

The rear sight is a flip-up peep, but one side has this square shape, the other side is round.







There are three gas rings on the bolt.


Last edited by CLASSIC12; 08-19-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:57 PM
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The butt trap wasn't introduced until 1969, and mine never had it but this one does. I don't remember the rear sight having a flat top on it, but it may have or have been an upgrade. Looks like it's got an aiming notch on the flat top for short ranges.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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I won’t argue on the utility of full auto fire, but I beg to differ on the fun factor, I had a ton of fun shooting it.
It’s always fun when uncle sugar pays😉
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:33 AM
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It’s always fun when uncle sugar paysColt M16 A1


I’m sure it is ... but I pay for my ammo, I don’t even live in Uncle Sugar’s land
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
CONGRATULATIONS---THAT'S MY OLD FRIEND. IT LOOKS TO BE IN VERY GOOD SHAPE....

I WISH IT COULD NARRATE ITS INTERESTING LIFE'S STORY......

THANKS FOR THE GREAT PICTURES, AND THE DETAILED INFORMATION.......
Ok, since no one else asked - classic12's gun is the exact one you carried, down to the SN?
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN L View Post
F.Y.I., the UI logo on the front of the mag is Universal Industries. They were the subcontractor back in the day that manufactured the 20rd mags for Colt. I bought an AR15 (SP1) new in the box in 1972. It came with (2) 20rd mags, blocked to 5rds. These mags came from Colt with Universal Industries marked floorplates. I still have them. Apparently, at that time, all Colt marked floorplates were going to the military.



That is an awesome looking pair of Colts you have there. I especially like the US Property marking. What does the paperwork consist of there and how long does it usually take to go through the process?



By the way the coloration of the barrel is due to bare metal subjected to high heat. The metal tends to oxidize somewhat during the cooling of the barrel. Totally normal and adds to the overall character of the rifle. Well done!


Thanks for infos.

A special license is required, in fact the law states that automatic weapons are forbidden, but then you can get an exceptional license for them, for collection purposes, same for silencers. It takes 2-4 weeks. The cost of the license is abt $ 150 versus $ 50 for a normal gun license. You must have at least a small collection and a safe. Bolt has to be stored separately from the gun.

Restriction is on shooting them. You also need a license to go shooting and a driving range that agrees to it.

This strongly limits the interest and demand for full auto weapons, so you can find most of them at reasonable prices.
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:59 PM
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I won’t argue on the utility of full auto fire, but I beg to differ on the fun factor, I had a ton of fun shooting it.
Heck yeah!

Clip one of the clothes-pin bipods on her, push the
buttstock forward till the slack's gone, and let 'er
rip. Yank the trigger back and let off quick and
she'll give you three rounds every time, once you
get the cadence down.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:01 PM
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That is definitely an IDF (Israel Defense Forces) six-pointed star. Only the IDF uses that star with "round points". That's a Hebrew letter in the middle of that star, too. So, whether directly after Vietnam or right towards the end (1973 was somewhat towards the conclusion of the Vietnam War and the Yom Kippur War was that autumn) somehow that rifle made it to Israel. I had a German '98 Mauser that made it to Israel in the late 1940s. It bore the same IDF star but it had all of the German markings removed.

My Class III FFL dealer has a similar rifle but perhaps with a shorter barrel; I cannot recall. It is pre-86 and he claims it is a $40,000 gun today. And that is totally due to the ridiculous law that was passed. Ever so dumb, but in today's political climate nobody is about to challenge it.

As for memory lane, I trained on M-14s, spent years in the USAR with M-14s, and I remember being shocked when I discovered the M-16. When did that appear? Had the Army sent me to the Southeast Asia Tea Party I would have known that answer.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
The butt trap wasn't introduced until 1969, and mine never had it but this one does. I don't remember the rear sight having a flat top on it, but it may have or have been an upgrade. Looks like it's got an aiming notch on the flat top for short ranges.
The aiming notch is for night fighting. It's darn near impossible to quickly line up a peep site in the dark so you are supposed to adjust the rear site half way between the regular and long range apertures so that they are both at 45 degree angles from the base. You are supposed to look over the sites and use the notch for the rear site.

At least that was how I was trained to do it when I served. I have to admit, when it's really dark you don't see the notch at all.

Both apertures were round on the top when I was in the Army, but they had the aiming notch on them.
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