9mm
Shooter Grade
Collectability Aspect isn't as important as Fit/Function/Accuracy

Honestly, I really like the looks of the MKIII's.

As they say, "Change my Mind"

What should I get?

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

If you're looking for an inexpensive entry into the Hi Power world you may want to look into the surplus clones that are available.

I have a Kareen from (form Israel) and a FEG (from Hungary). They're great shooters and make an affordable base for customization down the road.

Here's my Kareen. All I did was replace the extractor and the stocks.


This is my FEG. I've performed a fair number of upgrades, but still have far less in it than an entry level Browning or a Tisas:

Good advice here. I did the same thing. Started out with a couple of FEGs but didn't do too much customizing...just stocks and removed the mag safety.

Then I found a total surplus Mark II beater HP (from CDI before the fire) and put some money into it: trigger work, G10 stocks, duracote, and new springs. It looks great and shoots greater.

Over two years I added two more, both Mark IIIs, a Standard and Practical.

Attached Images

	0123181657b.jpg (90.1 KB, 92 views)
	DSCN0124.jpg (101.1 KB, 84 views)

How much do you want to spend?

__________________
Thread Killer.

Hi Powers are as good as it gets for single action autos, but don't get so starry eyed you do something crazy.....about a year and a half ago local shop got in a gorgeous HP, high polish blue and factory wood.. I traded a late 70s 66 4" for it. I haven't seen another 66 around here since, and I wish I'd have kept it. And I don't have the HP either, a friend talked me out of it. So, there ya go......dumb.....

A Hi-power is still my most favorite hicap 9.

Wish I still had mine!!

Take your pick; left to right; '67 "T" series, '77 "C" series, '85 MKII

__________________
John

I had three, I kept one, a nighthawk custom massaged, No lol. It is going no where, it fits my hand perfectly. I am not a big handguns, I currently own three, this one, a Les Baer UTC, and a s&w 57 classic. That is the extent of what is left of my handgun inventory. The three get shot, ALOT, though.

I've always wanted an HP as well. Lately though, I've been concerned about hammer bite with them. Is there any way to get around the hammer bite? Perhaps with a spur hammer?

If you're concerned about hammer bite, you don't want a spur hammer.

__________________
Thread Killer.

Hammer bite is easy to fix. The all-time HP guru, Stephen A. Camp suggested great advice....grind a bit off the hammer.

If you are interested in HP get his "book." It's all there. The HP equivalent to the "Standard Catalog."

In it he says a bit of gentle Dremel tool (professionally applied) solves the probem easy peasey. I did it to my first one and never had a bit of trouble.

It depends upon how different shooters grip the pistol. I've shot thousands of rounds through my HPs; both ring and spur hammer and never had a bite. However a range buddy and fellow HP "guy" can't shoot with a spur hammer.

__________________
John

I have a Pork-n- cheese Browning from the 1980's and a FEG.... the FEG is flat perfect for a carry and accurate.... DC the Mag block. The SAS has used that pistol for 40+ years.

I put a Cylinder & Slide no-bite hammer (with matching sear) in my FEG. It resolved the problem for me.

I also vote for getting a good clone. I bought a FEG recently and they are a great value.
Gen-u-ine FN HPs have gotten out of reach price wise - at least for me.

Attached Images

	LftSide-s.JPG (65.6 KB, 38 views)
	RtSide-s.JPG (65.0 KB, 34 views)

As they say, "Change my Mind"

Why??

__________________
Always Stay Strong!

What about Argentine Hi-Powers? Figure a NIB FM. Where would that figure in price wise and quality wise between a recent FN model, a surplus model and something like a Kareen or FEG?

__________________
BCCI Life Member #2068

I meant change my mind on the MKIII aspect, not the idea of getting a HP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

The prices FN Hi Powers are bringing might change your mind.

__________________
Thread Killer.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, 410bore.....

THAT BEING SAID, I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU JOIN ONE OR MORE OF THE SEVERAL BROWNING HI-POWER OWNERS FORUMS THAT EXIST....

IN THIS MANNER YOU CAN EDUCATE YOURSELF TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN MAKE SOME BETTER INFORMED DECISIONS.......

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Unfortunately I think that you are a "day late and a dollar short" on the nice surplus ones. Especially since Cole's had the fire.

I have an Israeli surplus FN MkIII, an FEG (just make sure that you get the true Hi-Power clone and not the ones with the S&W system), and a stainless Tisas BR9.

All of them are great in their own way.

__________________
Only a cold warrior

I picked up this for < 800. MK-III in box with 8 magazines. They're out there.


I also have a Kareen and an FEG which together cost less than the MK-III.

__________________
SWCA #2817

I am not really up on them or the knockoffs. I have one I bought in 1971 new for 94.00. Still have it. IMHO, the finest semi ever made

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

And six toes that we can see!!!!

If you plan to use it for "serious" purposes, you should get the Mk III, as it has all of the features you need in a BHP. It has sights you can see, a trigger you can manage, safety levers you can use, it will feed JHP ammo, and it is drop safe. Accept no substitute.

I bought a Mark III in 1980. It was the first semi-auto pistol I ever owned. Changed the grips and put in a C&S hammer. Its my absolute favorite 9mm and will be here for my kids when I'm gone.

I'll give my usual (and often unpopular) reply on the subject of hammer bite:

If you're getting hammer bite, you're holding it wrong.

Same goes for slide bite on other guns.

As for buying a Hi Power right now, I hope you have deep pockets. FN announced they were stopping production this year and prices promptly spiked.

__________________
Release the Kraken

While the Browning HP is a really neat nostalgic firearm with a fair amount of collectability IMO it is mechanically inferior to modern designs.

First step is to decide if you want a cheap close copy to shoot or an original collectible that will go up in value.

If you you want something better than traditional BHP single action auto look into upgrading it to the SFS system.

Might want to count those again.
I see 3 left and 4 right for a total of SEVEN.

What's the cost of the SFS system? I wouldn't touch my two "good" HPs but I consider it on my shooter.

My HP is one assembled Portugal and as good a shooter as the one I had from FN in Belgium I had 20 years ago. Just saying.....

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Always wanted a Hi Power and all the "advice" from the gun shop know-it-alls was that the "hammer bite" made it unshootable. An upcoming TDI class with my ex spurred me to get a 9mm for commonality of ammunition.

I was surprised that I suffered NO hammer bite and found the Hi Power a joy to shoot and very accurate. Would recommend without reservation.

If you want a Hi-Power for shooting and not collecting, then a clone is a real good choice. Many of the FEG clones are true clones, as are the Kareen and Tisas. Another one to consider is the Argentine FM Hi-Power. I picked up this M-90 in hard chrome, with one magazine, for $350 OTD not long ago. The FM Hi-Powers made before 1989 were actually made under license from Browning FN.

Thank you all for the tips, I have found a few that I'm keeping my eye on .

__________________
Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

Mine is 1988, all original including the mags, great shooter, $500 when I snagged it bucoo years back. Haven't had it out to exercise lately, but heading for the range today with LEO daughter so she'll be exercising her duty weapon, Glock Gen 4, 45 acp, and I'll have the Smith M29-2 "Dirty Harry" and we'll both see who puts down the punk more accurately (Hint: I haven't won yet in multiple outings).

You guys got me thinking....I'll take the HP and go up against her Glock...both high caps, both semi's....maybe I'll equal the odds better

One of the above posts says these are jumping in value cause aren't made no more. Mines just a good shooter, nothing special but all original. Still 5 to 6 Benny's or ???

Sorry for thread drift and OP.....get one if you can, they are a hoot and a very well made piece of machinery, mine loves to work fairly dry, I don't know about the clones, never had one.

Attached Images

	Browning Hi-Power 1.jpg (73.3 KB, 34 views)
	Browning Hi-Power 2.jpg (75.4 KB, 31 views)
	Browning Hi-Power 5.jpg (81.5 KB, 30 views)

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

My range got a used Browning HP in and it was in pretty nice shape. I really thought I was going to buy it but decided to rent it for the day(my range allows for rental of any used guns for sale). I am thankful that I did because I could not hit anything with it. I do not know what the deal with it was? It had the drift adjustable rear sight sitting midline but I could only hit the target 3 or4 times at 15 yards in an entire magazine. I decided I did not want it and went back to shooting my revolvers and not only hitting the target at same distance but hitting the target in the center. Seemed to me any of the hits I got with it were far left on the target. Well good luck with your search I am sure you find one better than that thing I tried.

Browning HPs are fine pistols. If I wanted one I would shop around until I found one in my price range. There are plenty of
them in circulation. It always pays to buy original. There are also
Lincensed P35s made by Vickers, Inglis and Mauser. I have owned these in the past and the militaries shot as well as original
I got nothing against the clones, except they aren't Brownings.

There's no reason to change your mind. I have a standard blue
HP that I bought new in 1977 and a MKIII that I bought in used
but like new condition in an estate auction several years ago.
I love my old HP but the MKIII is stronger and shoots smaller
groups than my old one. If you want a Browning buy a Browning,
not a cheap clone or you will have spent money and you will
still want a real HP.

Oh yeah...that is a bad idea. My father's used to hammer bite the poo out of me, it would bite him even worse (he has meaty mitts). He tried a "no-bite" hammer but that didn't help. After enough sessions of biting to bleeding, he sent his off to have and extended beaver-tail installed on the frame.

It looked kind of like this one here:

Both pistols were made by FEG.

The Kareen is an FEG P9 that was finished and assembled in Israel using FEG supplied parts. The FEG P9 was a near perfect clone of the pre Mk II High power and has 100% parts compatibility.

The FEG pistols can be confusing however as the P9, First Generation P9M, and the Second Generation P9M were all imported by KBI as the "PJK-9HP" and by TGI as the "P9M".

As noted above the P9 was a straight up copy of the Pre Mk II Hi Power, although you'll see them with both round and spur hammers depending on what the military ordering them preferred. They have 100% parts compatibility with the pre Mk II FN Hi Power.

The First Gen P9M switched to a 1911 style slide release lever with a matching notch in the slide, rather than the half moon style used on the FN Hi Powers and the P9. They also had larger 3 dot sights and most of them had a longer safety lever. Other than the changes related to the new slide release lever, then had complete parts interchangeability with the FN Hi Power and P9.

The Second Gen isn't really a Hi Power at all. While it looks like a Hi Power on the outside, it uses a S&W style locking system and isn't a Hi Power at all. If you can't see the oval shaped outline of cross pin on the right side of the frame that you see on all Hi Powers, its a 2nd Gen P9M.

FEG also made the P9R. It's basically a S&W Model 59 clone and has zero parts commonality with the Hi Power, and uses a different magazine. Even though it looks like a M59 and is a DA pistol, some folks still confuse them with the other FEG 9mm pistols.

Here's the coolest thing about HiPowers: Browning hasn't changed their price list on their parts for that pistol since about 2003. I bought a T-series in dire need of love at KTP a while ago for a song, and found all the parts I needed to make it "right" again for about $35 from Browning. Safety, Sear, rear sight, springs, hammer strut/mainspring assy. all for that, delivered. That pistol is pretty sweet now, and gets toted very often now that sweaty weather is behind us.

Not all "FM" Hi powers are created equal.

Originally, from 1969 through 1989 FM built them under license from FN, to the point of having FN inspectors doing the final checks on the pistols. They are licensed Hi Powers made to the same standard as the FN Hi Powers. But they will sell for less as they are not the original "FN".

In 1990 FM and FN did not renew their license agreement, but FM continued making "Hi Power" pistols with a couple changes. The most notable and visually identifiable is the use of a 1911 styled front of the slide.

These pistols are not made to the same standard and the impression I've gotten over the years from people who owned them is that quality slipped, and slipped more over time. FM was after all competing with both FN and with FEG when it came to commercial "Hi Power" sales.

In short I'd have no qualms carrying a licensed FM Hi Power, but one of the later FM 90 pistols would probably not be my first choice.

I bought a factory Mk III SFS Hi Power and carried it for years. The major objection I encountered to carrying a 1911 or a standard Hi Power was the visual effect of a cocked hammer in a holster. It makes the less informed citizenry nervous. But with the SFS, you apply the safety by pressing the hammer forward, so in Condition 1 (cocked and locked with a loaded chamber) the hammer appears to be un-cocked, but it's not.

Here is it in Condition 1 with the hammer pressed forward to apply the safety. Note the safety lever is now in the up or "safe" position, and the spur portion of the hammer is rotated down almost all the way - it's actually sitting on a hammer block that falls away when the trigger is pulled. What is not obvious is that the mainspring is still fully cocked and the non spur portion of the hammer is resting on the sear, and held in place by the safety:



Here is an SFS Hi Power ready to fire (Condition 0). When the safety lever was pressed to the down or "fire" position, the upper sur portion of the hammer snapped back to engage the lower portion of the hammer that is engaged on the sear.



Here it is in the fired position with the hammer all the way down. The safety is still in the "fire" position and the hammer is all the way down after smacking the firing pin Also note the extended slide release lever that comes with the SFS Hi Power.




In addition to the non scary to the public benefits, there are some advantages for concealed carry. If you keep your thumb on the back of the hammer when holstering it, you are literally pressing the safety on when you holster the pistol, so you'll never be in a situation where you are holstering it with the safety off.

At any point during the day, you can confirm the safety is on by feeling the hammer position, even through a shirt or a coat, not that you'll really have any need to do that, and you'll stop after you've carried in condition 1 for awhile and realize it doesn't come off safe on it's own.

The hammer will never rub on your side, as can be the case with a 1911 or standard hi Power in condition 1.

The spur is short and shaped in a manner that prevents hammer bite. And there is still enough spur there that you can still safely cock it manually.

Finally, the safety is much more positive than it is on the standard FN High Power, which has always been known for a somewhat mushy feel to the safety lever. And the SFS safety is both extended and ambidextrous.

Cylinder and Slide sells the SFS kit for the Hi Power and they are genuine FN Browning parts - the same as on my factory SFS. I converted an FEG P9 to use the SFS system for commonality purposes, and it was a "drop in" fit, with the caveat that any after market safety will probably require some hand fitting on a Hi Power - it's the nature of the beast. In this case some hand fitting of the safety was needed, but it was a 15 minute job and involved no more hand fitting than a Hi Power normally requires.



I also converted a First Gen P9M with the 1911 style slide release lever. The SFS it comes with the extended SFS slide release lever, but it has no affect on the SFA safety or operation, so you can just keep the original 1911 style lever if you prefer. If you want the SFS lever as well on a P9M, you'll need to modify it to accommodate the smaller 1911 style slide notch on the P9M slide:



You'll need to reprofile the meatier Mk III / SFS slide release to the slimmer 2nd Gen P9M dimensions, but there's all the material there you need so it's all removal with no need to build up the part.






The end result works very well, although the SFS parts have FN's working flat finish rather than a high polish finish. The looks however are still fine:



The cost of the SFS kit is $125 and you can get the SFS kit here:
CS0115 - BHP SFS KIT - Blue - Cylinder & Slide - Handguns parts and accessories

I like the feel of Pachmayr grips on my MarkIII.

I'm a big fan of the FEG P9 and 1st Gen P9M pistols. I've owned 4 over the years and still own three of them (and the 4th was sold to a good friend looking for a concealed carry Hi Power).

FEG made them primarily for military customers, but also sold commercial pistols to various importers over the years. KBI imported pistols are the most common and TGI pistols also show up now and then.

The finish on the commercial pistols is excellent. You might see a slight wave in one of the flats on some pistols so from a Hi Power snob/collector perspective the quality is slightly less than FN, but from any other perspective they are very well made pistols with excellent polish and blued finish.

The military pistols are most often found with a parkerized finish, while the commercial pistols were highly polished and blued. Military pistols were built to order with customer specified wood or plastic grips, round or spur hammer, short or extended safety lever and small or larger sights.

In addition to the model number confusion noted in prior post, the commercial P9 and P9M pistols can be found with a mix of parts. You may find a P9 with an extended P9M safety lever, you may encounter small or large sights, and you may encounter round or spur hammers.

Below is one of my FEG P9 pistols. This one is a commercial pistol that came with the larger P9M sights and extended safety lever:




One thing to consider for concealed carry purposes is that as pre Mk II Hi Power clones, they all have humped feed ramps. Some shooters have reported feed issues with hollow point ammo. However, I've owned and shot four of them over the years and I have never had any issues with 124 gr XTPs (a truncated cone shaped hollow point bullet, or 124 and 147 gr Golden Saber hollow points (a round nose flat point shaped hollow point).

If you do have problems, a competent Hi Power gunsmith can grind the feed ramp to the later Mk II/III straight profile. Alternatively you can replace the barrel with a Hi Power barrel.

Another thing to consider is that the FEG slide to frame fit is not quite as tight as on a commercial Hi Power. These were made for military use and they are biased toward reliability. As a result, if you put FEG and FN Hi Powers in a pistol rest (or if you are a really competent pistol marksman) you'll notice the FN has an edge in accuracy. However, if you shoot both extensively you'll also note a the FEG has a slight edge in reliability (assuming the pistols are in comparable condition).

As an aside, FN developed the precursor to the SFS Hi Power as part of the US military trials that eventually led to the adoption of the Beretta M9. FN's entry was eliminated at the start as it wasn't a DA pistol as specified in the requirements.

It was developed into the production SFS Hi Power, which never really caught on despite it's advantages. I bought mine in the late 1990s when they were sold off at clearance prices.

Browning developed the BDM, which has a switch that allows it to be operated in DA/SA pistol mode, or a revolver like DA only mode. It was marketed in North American only.

FN developed the FN HP-DA as an entry in the XM-9 trials and it was a double action pistol, loosely based on the Hi Power design. Finland adopted it as it's service pistol and it was sold commercially in Europe as the FN HP-DA and in the US initially as the FN HP-DA and later as the Browning BDA.

Below are (top to bottom) a Browning BDM, an FN HP-DA and an FN SFS Hi Power:




The BDM and the HP-DA/BDA are interesting pistols, but neither is in my opinion as good as a Hi Power.

Just curious, but will the "half moon" slide stop interchange with the "1911" style? As you can see in post #16 my FEG (2nd gen?) has the 1911 style, but I kinda like the looks of the "half moon".

I bought my first HP, new, in the early 70s for $109.00 if I remember correctly. Shot the snot out of it with cheap surplus ammo. DUMB! Ammo was highly corrosive and I trashed the bore. Traded it for something I thought I wanted more. A couple years latter I bought a used gun and owned it until it was stolen from my car. Fast foreword a couple years (1976) and I am a newly minted blue suit on my first Dept. I walk into the Gibson's (I am home visiting my folks while attending the academy) and on the shelf is a used HP. A little wear and some grip damage but sound and with a good bore. It came home with me for about $150.00 (T134XXX). That HP traveled many a mile in my winter duty coat and was a regular in my off duty line up. Still shoots as good as I can and now resides in my magazine stand by my easy chair. It always fed any ammo I tried to shoot in it (Ball, FP, HP and cast) and I don't recall ever having a failure to feed or fire.

Old school? Yes. But it will still do to take to the dance if that is what's available. Now discontinued, mostly do to the cost of making an all steel pistol, I suspect there will still be HPs in use long after the plastic jobs we buy now are relegated to the recycle bin.

Excellent! Thanks.