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Old 10-19-2018, 03:07 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
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Exclamation Another Winchester Model 12 Question for the Experts

I've seen a lot of Model 12s in my life, but I've never seen one marked like this.

Is this an actual factory stamp? Anyone seen this before? Note that there is no stamp on the barrel to indicate how it's choked. It appears to be a factory 20-inch barrel.

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Old 10-19-2018, 03:13 PM
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I would expect to see CYL marked in that spot, but who knows.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:12 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
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First guess is that some one came accross a M12 with a Polychoke or other cokecan choke device on the end of the bbl for cheap.
IF the adj choke was factory installed, there would have been NO choke marking applied to the bbl.

M12's with adj exterior choke devices are still not a big seller regardless of who put them on (factory or aftermarket),,that someone decided to chop the bbl and add 'RIOT' to the bbl to let you know it was in fact a riot gun.
That 'riot' mark looks pantographed not roll marked at first glance, But the one pic is a tough way to judge I'll admit.
It could have even been a choke marked bbl with just the choke marking removed and the 'riot' added.
Why not add 'cyl' instead would be the next question...

I can't recall riot guns being marked 'riot',,and all the examples I've seen were plainly marked 'cyl' choke.
But that's a whole field in itself and many were made up at the start of WW2 I'm told that were field guns in their earlier lives.
These generally have the orig choke marking XX'd out and 'cyl' added.

BBl assembly looks reblued at least in the pic,,hard to tell by that alone I admit. But to add and/or delete a marking is not all that uncommon in that circle of 'collectibles'

Last edited by 2152hq; 10-19-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:30 PM
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Pictures! more pictures!

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
First guess is that some one came accross a M12 with a Polychoke...etc., etc.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I've seen guns like you mention with the original choke marking x'd out and a new "cyl" mark applied.

Frankly, when we start talking about Model 12 factory riot guns and trench guns, it's becoming more and more difficult to spot the real thing. Even with serial numbers in the correct range (for trench guns) who's to say if heat shields and bayonet mounts are original to the gun. Ditto for Model 97s.

With riot guns, it's even harder, unless the gun is marked with law enforcement markings. I do know that a good many blued riot guns were drafted into the military for WWII and marked with U.S. markings. A lot were also requisitioned by defense-related industries for use by guards. Dupont in Texas comes to mind...they even stamped their guns with an identifying number, usually on the trigger guard.

I agree with you that something about the "RIOT" stamp doesn't look kosher. Only thing in its favor is that it appears to be in the exact spot where the "cyl" mark would be (I compared it to my own factory riot guns).

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

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Pictures! more pictures!
I probably won't post more photos. It isn't my gun. Take my word for it that the rest of the gun looks really nice, and it's said to be unfired since its manufacture in the 60s. I have no idea if that's true. The serial number isn't visible in any of its photos, so I have no way to date it.
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