It still continues to amaze me that everyone refers to the gun that James Bond carried/carries. Remember that we are talking fantasy. So many refer to him as a real person. I admit that I am a big Bond fan. But it is just for entertainment.

Those Walther PP series guns are generally excellent little pocket pistols. I like the steel construction.

In 100 years from now, that Walther will still be good to go. In that time period, a polymer frame may or may not be suitable for service (due to de-polymerization).

I still carry a Smith & Wesson manufactured PPK/S.

The only folks I've ever heard argue that the PP Series is "obsolete" are complete fools who don't know the definition of the word. I actually saw a guy argue that the PPK was obsolete and that folks should carry a modern pistol like the SIG P238, seemingly ignorant of the fact that the P238 is based on the 1911, which is a much older design than the PPK.

Obsolete would be something like the Borchardt Pistol, an extremely old, extremely heavy, needlessly complex semiautomatic pistol which fires a unique cartridge which is no longer in production, and has long since been replaced/improved upon.

The only downside the Walther PP Series has is that it's rather heavy when compared to polymer framed pistols, but compare it to other steel framed pistols and it still holds up extremely well.

Sheriff Burp, I am sure that there are a lot of firearms Luddites on this forum that agree with you. I think a lot of the younger generation haven't equated functionality with esthetic beauty, finely machined and finished pieces of industrial era workmanship and historical significance. Their loss unfortunately.
You are well served with a 90 year old design.

I foolishly traded away a PP in .22lr back in the early 80s

LOL...it's a joke.... ya he introduced me to the PPK's existence (but his was only a .32) because there was no internet and not even sure if the 'Gun Rags" had caught on...if it hadn't worked for me it would have been gone years ago.

ya and so was Dirty Harry with his .44 magnum....bunch of guys with Beretta 92s and 1911s.... and a bunch of others...... including all those guys on TV and in the movies that have carried Glocks for the past 25 years....... including Raylan Givens.

I was looking for a small flat semi-auto to carry in the early -80s...... tried the Beretta 70S then Walthers....... .....not a whole lot of choices ..heck 1911s only came in two sizes back then; full and Commander... by 1990 I moved on to the S&W 3913..... but the PPK did and still does serve as a niche gun.

All I have to say is a smile, nod, and a wink.

I think this stems from the notion, one that lived well into the 20th century, that the more important you were, the smaller the gun you carried. There were outliers to be sure (Gen. Patton comes to mind) but it held true in real life and in fiction like Fleming's books. Recall that Bond originally had a .25 auto until it was pointed out that no one who put himself in harm's way as often as Bond would carry such a pipsqueak weapon.

Sometime in the last three decades of the 20th century this went away. Field grade officers in Desert Storm carried the same full size M9 as the junior enlisted. I think Gen. Schwartzkopf did as well IIRC. Bond started carrying a full sized 9mm in the movies. And so on...

A neat explanation of the early Bond guns. Fun fact, a 27-2 3.5" was used for the "down the barrel" filming in the early movies.

The Guns of James Bond: Sean Connery | Range365

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Psalm 27:2

There are those who maintain that revolvers, especially little five-shot ones, and most especially little five-shot all steel ones, are obsolete.

A good many of us would disagree, pretty vehemently.

Sure, there are more up-to-date, capacious, light and sexy handguns, in more powerful calibers, than either the Walther P series or the steel J-frame. You can get a gnatweight .357 if you like.

Enjoy your light 9's and .40's and .45's and .357's. I'm obsolete myself, so I'll stick with what I've carried for twenty years without feeling inadequately protected.

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Oh well, what the hell.

My FEG PPK 380 clone is one I CC the most....
The 9mm Shield sits in a basket and has not been shot or used in 5 or 6 year's.
If I want to CC a 9mm, it's a BHP.....
But I'm just an old foggy from the early 1960's ...
The only other one I CC is my M 640....
Again, some what an old "J" frame with only 5 rounds....

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

It's not obsolete in the sense that if the trigger is pulled it goes bang.
But I'd put it in the category of hand tools like axes, files, and hacksaws - sure they are still usable but chainsaws, grinders, and Sawzalls are so much easier.
Now, when I put on my tux and head to the Grand Casino for dinner and a night of gambling I'll certainly carry my PPK.
Edit. It's memorial day weekend. This thread still ongoing, I took my own version of a PPK to the range. Remington R51, 10 yds.

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It's obsolete by one persons ideas and so it ends up in the used gun display case and another person buys it feeling it's just the thing they want and could use.

If you go by TV, Movie & GunRag firearms fashion statements,,yes it's probably way out of date.
I've never paid any attention to them. They are fantasy.

I like what I like and a Walther PP/PPk series pistol is just fine with me.
I even carry a P1 a lot of the time now. How terrible is that.
...Banished for sure from the CCW Ninja sites forever.

Another gun that by the standards of some here has to be obsolete is the H&K P7...... ya right. If obsolete means too expensive to make and sell!!!


I debated long and hard in the 80s about getting one..... but it's manual of arms is so unique..... I opted for more traditional DA/SA guns.

Now wish I'd bought two and about a dozen or so mags.

There's nothing obsolete about a Walther PP design.

The purpose of a handgun is to launch projectiles in an accurate, controlled and reliable manner. Capacity, frame material, stuff like that, those are personal choices.

Can you purchase ammo? Are there any warnings on said ammo not to use in your gun, because of potential destruction?

"Obsolete" handguns- perhaps a revolver in .38 S&W, since that rd is not really available now. Same for a Star A or similar, chambered in 9mm Largo.

A steel framed pistol chambered in a modern caliber is not obsolete, any more than a bolt-action rifle with a walnut stock in modern chambering. If anything, these are considered "premium".

I don't carry mine all that often, but wouldn't sell or trade it:



I bought it back in the late 70's on a special one time exemption of the GCA68.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

There must still be quite in demand, as Walther is making new ones here in the US, in Arkansas. https://www.guns.com/news/2019/01/15...s-month-photos

If you like your Walther, it is not obsolete in your hands.

JMO, my 1905 manufacture IJ .38 S&W is not obsolete. Shooting a 148 grain wadcutter it will get the job done. So your Walther is how much younger?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Certified Curmudgeon

Found a used blue one (.380) a few years back.......a life long Safe Queen.



There are certain classic autos that; if one can afford it, IMO everyone should have!

1911....... full size or Commander
Browning HP/ FN P35
Walther PPK...... some may settle for a PP or PPK/s
Walther P-38
S&W 39
Sig P Series ...... I like the 220 in .45 and the old obsolete 228
Beretta 92........ Full size M9, Centurion or Compact
CZ 75....... maybe a 75B


and a bunch of 3rd Gen S&Ws; to include the 3913NL, 6906,5906, 915.... 4566 and 4505.......

When/where possible get any Performance Center auto....... if you can find them!!!!!


All obsolete....... but all will still get the job done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reminds me of the young man from the mayor's office who explained that our computer plots of reported crime based upon city blocks was obsolete, I believe his exact word was "antiquated". The City had just purchased a fancy new "Geographic Information System" that allowed precice plotting of activities and incidents based upon longitude and lattitude...

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Certified Curmudgeon

Y E S !!! Obsolete and DANGEROUS!!!
The moment Gaston came out with the first polymer pistol (and the first time a 40 cal cartridge was fired) all lesser caliber metal guns were rendered obsolete and SHOULD NO LONGER BE FIRED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
All such guns and ammo should IMMEDIATELY be taken out of service and properly disposed of.
Recommended proper disposal would be to ship the antiquated weapons and ammo to my FFL dealer attention "hdfinder47".
This has been a Public Service Announcement. Glad I could help.

Of course a PPK/S is not obsolete, and with the right ammo will do the job most of the time within its limitations.

But if you make it your carry gun, you should ask yourself whether you do so for the right reason.

1. Did you look at your defensive needs and decide that this is the best gun for the job?

OR

2. Are you in love with the gun, or your self-image as a traditionalist, and are now rationalizing why this is the best gun for you?

All too many people fall under #2, starting with a lot of 1911 aficionados.

I dunno if you intended this or not, but what makes this especially hilarious is the fact that early .40 S&W Glocks are potentially dangerous due to having inadequate chamber support for the .40 S&W cartridge.

Ah, but then again, there are still a lot of folks who like to pretend that such was actually the fault of the cartridge, and that it's just inherently prone to catastrophic case failure .

Also, Glock didn't make the first polymer framed pistol, Heckler & Koch had them beat by a good decade with the VP-70.

If you are in a position which calls for engaging groups of terrorists, or busting in on a cartel fiesta, there are better choices (your partner will agree). If however, you circulate in normal world and know enough from practical experience (your own or learned from those who know), the Walther, one which has been proven accurate and reliable by your own use, should serve to get one out of a jackpot. Obsolete? No sir.

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Halfway and one more step

There's not a tremendous amount of difference between functional handguns. All will put a bullet into something if used properly.
If you happen to love the one you carry, odds are you will shoot it more often for the enjoyment of it, and become more proficient with it.

We carry what we do because we want to, unless it's an issued piece.

About 12 years ago I went shooting with a friend of my dads and I shot his cherished Walther .22. Not sure if it was a PP or what. But it made me want a Walther in .380 and I specifically waited for an Interams PPK/S (more affordable than German) to show up and one finally did. My dad's friend was left handed like me and he tolerated the right hand thumb rest grips that were on his gun for years saying he didn't know where to find regular grips. I got on Ebay, found a pair, and they showed up at his house a few days later.

"I dunno if you intended this or not, but what makes this especially hilarious is the fact that early .40 S&W Glocks are potentially dangerous due to having inadequate chamber support for the .40 S&W cartridge...........
Also, Glock didn't make the first polymer framed pistol, Heckler & Koch had them beat by a good decade with the VP-70."

No, the "especially hilarious" was somewhat unintentional - just trying for "regular funny", lol. Forgot about the VP-70. This reminds me: I need a VP-70 for my collection! Thanks.

I don't know if it is obsolete as it will still do the job, but I do know that I bought my last straight blowback .380 many years ago and will never own another. I find them absolutely miserable to shoot, and I don't like to own guns I hate shooting. I had a Interarms PPK/S that I sold a few years back, and that's one of the few sales I don't regret in the slightest.

A Ruger EC9s will outperform a PPK on every conceivable level; if I wanted a subcompact single stack that's what I would get.

I agree that the PPK/S in .380 ACP is a miserable gun to shoot. I carried one for a number of years and found mine very accurate and very reliable and it was a good concealed carry piece, but I just hated shooting it. It's straight blowback operation combined with the .380 round made it brutal in the hand. If I shot more than a couple of magazines through it at one session I'd end up with a bloody hand from the sharp edges on the slide and sharp recoil unless I was wearing gloves. The double action trigger pull is pretty horrible as well. Even so, I endured it ten years or so until I found something better, but that doesn't mean it's obsolete or even a bad gun.




I finally retired my PPK/S and it's replacement as my backup and concealed carry gun is a Ruger LC9S Pro in 9mm. For me, the LC9S Pro is a better carry gun than the PPK/s. It's just as reliable and plenty accurate, lighter, has a much more user friendly trigger pull and is actually pleasant to shoot. They size comparatively and magazine capacity is the same even though the Ruger is chambered in the more robust 9mm over .380 ACP.

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- Change it back -

I recently fell in love and bought a 1971 Walther PP pristine, NIB, for CONCEALED CARRY, in my pocket with a new "Disanti" holster or inner holster on my waist.
My Walther PP will do the job well, concealed carry for self defense. I brought you from europe, a set of beautiful walnut root grips.

It is a mature choice of an experienced professional based on:

1. It is a brilliant Fritz Walther design, tested for over 90 years went through a World War and a Cold War, was used for decades by the French, German, Swiss, Swedish, Hungarian, Brazilian, Turkish and more police. It proved to be so good, that it is still being manufactured today, without receiving any changes in its design (the extended beaver tail is a minor detail).

2. The manufacturing quality is excellent, since it is all of a forged steel cemented in those parts that deserve it. It has an impeccable finish with a fine blue polish, which is a pleasure to watch.

3. It has a fixed barrel, which gives it excellent precision and the fact that the entire weapon is made of steel ensures precision throughout the life of the weapon, which is not the case with aluminum or polycarbonate frame pistols.
 
4. The heavier weight is balanced and helps control recoil.

5. Seven 380 ACP rounds are sufficient in the hands of an experienced marksman to repel an attack in self defense.

While the 380 ACP caliber is not my first choice, its effectiveness is marginal and it will get the job done.
 If you want a fixed barrel, it is the largest caliber that the simple and precise closing mechanism allows.

6. The DA / SA system is the best for me, because it allows you to carry live ammunition in the chamber safely and instantly, having the ability to shoot with just the pull of the trigger, just as simple and safe as a revolver.
 And successive shots can be accurately and easily controlled thanks to the SA.
 I had a Glock 42, when it was first released, it was better in only one aspect, it was very light and had little recoil, this was due to the Browning locked closure. But I was afraid of an accident because it lacks manual insurance and I did not feel safe carrying a bullet in the bedroom. The Glock 42 is not as accurate as the Walther PP.

A final thought: The armed confrontations are not like the movies where they shoot dozens of shots. In real life, in the first 2 or 3 shots, you either repelled the attack or shot the bad guy or you're dead. Always talking about CITIZEN SELF DEFENSE.

Just my 2 cents.
Luck !

Compared to a SIG P365 or Springfield Hellcat, yes, they are obsolete.

But that doesn’t mean they aren’t still good guns. They are high quality and should handle most situations just fine. Today, I would never recommend a Walther PP to a first time gun owner looking for a carry gun, but for someone like yourself who already has one on hand and enjoys it, by all means use it.

My first Walther was also a PPK/s because of the 68 restrictions. Bought it new in 1971 for $71.25 wholesale, when I owned my gun shop. Carried it for years, but after about 3 years I had a lot of holster wear and had it nickeled. Recently I bought a new Walther USA PPK/s. Still like the DA/SA option and with hand loads in .380 it is not so bad of a defense cartridge. Like the weight, the S/S finish and the fact that it is a Walther again, though only part of it is made in Germany and the rest in Arkansas.
In the 50 years that I have been carrying, I have yet to have to "Clear Leather" and not expecting to any time soon, so the .380 is OK for me.

Bob

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Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

Obsolete is a loaded term. It implies that the old thing no longer has value. That's not true. A PPK will always be a classic firearm that can provide its owner great joy and satisfaction.

I look at this question differently. My thought is why subject a classic and much-loved firearms to the wear and tear and abuse of daily carry? Why not select a newer, lighter, more compact, more capable, modern firearm and devote it to that role? Let the modern/disposable plastic wonder gun take the abuse. Save your classic for special occasions and range days.

In other words, give it a place of honor. Let an easily replaced gun fill the functionary role.

Does a 2020 Toyota Camry have the same heart and soul of a 1967 Mustang? No it doesn't. But it is a "better" car in so many respects. So, what's a fella to do. He drives the Camry every day. He parks it in the driveway. He piles on the miles and doesn't get too upset when some idiot bangs into it with his shopping cart. That old Mustang that hold so many memories, remains parked safe in the garage and comes out on sunny days when the car shine and be appreciated.

Sure get that. My Jeep had 268,000 miles on it when I retired it, my Prius is still going strong with 189,000, but my 67 Matching Number 427/435 Corvette Roadster has all of 24,000.

Bob

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Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

I'm amazed by this as well. No gun seems to bring that out more than the PPK.

Personally, I carry a 5 or 6 shot .38 snub revolver because that is what Manix and Cannon carried.

For a rhetorical question this has been a good one. I like the pics, too!

There is a lot of wisdom in this post. It's probably not what people want to hear but it is the truth.

A lot of these decisions are based on emotional considerations; attachments to an object for reasons other than the utility of the object.

PPKs, 1911s and revolvers tend to bring that out. I'm guilty of it myself with revolvers. I love the dang things, but that's my heart talking, not my head.

The one possible exception being the J frame versus the little pocket autos. Or maybe also the K,L, and N frames.

I collect new Walthers. All are stainless models. I love the feel and shape of them. I agree with you. Keep what you enjoy, no matter how many changes or new models come out. I carry a stainless .45, I have carried it for over 20 years. It is a gen. 3 S&W and I love it.

you forgot #3.Is it somewhere in-between? I can't keep up with the latest thing to come along.I carry a kahr k9.part old school(steel,heavy) part new school (small size 9mm). It just works for me

Best for what though? Best for collecting, looking at and fondling perhaps. Maybe even for recreational shooting.

But to defend yourself? That's where I think this gun gets much harder to justify.

Certainly if the shooter's gun is reliable and the shooter can place shots where needed at speed it can get the job done. But it's hard to say it's a top choice by modern standards.

The lack of a slide stop alone is an issue. Clearing a malfunction without one is not the easiest thing.

Ever smaller and ever lighter may be new, but I remain convinced that it's not improved. I cannot see smaller and lighter as positive attributes, but rather for what they are, stunted and cramped and made of cheap-o materials. I don't buy them, don't pay any attention to them.

You want a glue gun?

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That's just somebody talkin.

Since this thread has been bumped, I might as well update my opinions on the subject.

While I still feel that the Walther PPK(/S) is a perfectly adequate choice for Self-Defense, as of last year (May 2019) I have effectively replaced my S&W PPK/S with a Ruger LCP 10th Anniversary Edition.
The choice had more to do with the fact that I love my PPK/S so much that I would hate to lose it should I ever have to use it than anything else, but the fact that it's smaller, lighter, and far easier to carry certainly helped me to warm up to it. I don't shoot it nearly as well as my PPK/S because it obviously doesn't fit my hand as well, and it's inherently less accurate due to the shorter slight radius as well as the fact that it doesn't have a fixed barrel like the PPK/S.

Over all, as someone who has gone from carrying the PPK/S to the more modern LCP, I can safely say that it's not a straight upgrade, it's a trade-off in which I sacrificed a bit of accuracy/shootability in exchange for a ease of carry, which in many ways could easily be considered a downgrade. So yeah, in spite of what self-proclaimed "experts" may assert, newer isn't always better, and while smaller, lighter firearms may be easier to carry, they're more difficult to shoot well.

In closing, I still love the PPK/S more than the LCP that has effectively replaced it as my EDC firearm, and if only Walther would come out with an aluminum or polymer-framed variant which shaved off a few ounces of weight to get it below 20oz, then I could easily see myself going right back to carrying a PPK for the superior shootability, but as it stands, I love the LCP as a 24/7 carry gun, and even if such a PPK/L M2 were to ever surface, I would still carry the LCP as a BUG.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Its not so much the smaller and lighter thing. Its the so so reliability thing, especially if wanting to use anything other than ball. It's the minuscule sights. It's the lack of a slide stop. It's the, at least in many examples, the very heavy DA pull. The very epitome of the crunch and ticker Col. Cooper spoke about. It's the need to grip the thing differently than any other pistol you own to avoid slide bite. It's that the blowback operation of this pistols seems a little less reliable than alternatives when fired with a less than perfect grip on the pistol.

It's still a beautiful and historical gun. Yes, it can be made to work, but would you really recommend it as a CCW for a newer shooter?

I no longer have any .380s, but have had several PPK/Ss over many years. I'm speaking of older guns as I know nothing about the later versions that have been built in the last twenty-five years or so.

Fine, accurate, reliable, and safe pistols. Some shooters nowadays don't seem to realize that new technology doesn't necessarily equate to better technology.

The PPK/Ss I've had experience with even shoot cast bullets reliably and accurately at 25 yards. Perhaps some of the newer .380 guns by other manufacturers have similar attributes. I'll likely never find out as I'd have to get past the looks first. Cosmetic appeal is worth something, too.

Not in a self sefense scenario.

In the interim since this thread started, I have added a very nice Walther PP .380 to my cool gun carry stable. It is a delight to shoot and carry.

Here it is with another nice carrying .380 - my Beretta Model 85. The Beretta is larger but lighter. It does look like it’s made of Leggos compared to the smooth lines of the Walther. I carry them with whatever FMJ I have handy.

I spent over 3 decades carrying what my employer said I had to carry. Now I carry what I like.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Speaking of the Walther PPK and PPK/s, I presently have an Interarms PPK/s and have been trying to find a way to make it more comfortable to shoot. After three magazines of .380ACP my hand and the webbing between my thumb and index finger ache significantly, and it makes the gun not particularly enjoyable to take out for a range day. I'm not getting any slide bite; I think it's the snappiness of the .380 coupled with the un-beveled backstrap and thin grips.

The S&W models seem to have plenty of aftermarket grip options, but does anyone know of any rubber or otherwise thicker grips for the Interarms models?

I think the rubber grips would fit just fine for a /S since they're panels, unlike a PPK.

PP pistols are not a range gun. I don't shoot mine a lot; can't afford to. I see the potential for sore hands, though.

Is the PP-series obsolete? Nope. The 98 Mauser action isn't obsolete, and it's been around longer. The search for the optimal pistol/caliber is an Unicorn hunt I refuse to go on. It's good enough. Militaries and police forces used the rounds and the platform for decades.

Me being involved in a gunfight are extremely remote, so I carry my PPK because I like to carry it. Nostalgia figures into it; I always wanted one when I was a young man, and I can't say Bond, James Bond didn't figure into it.

The PP-guns have soldiered on. I can't think of another small pistol still in production since the 1930s.

I have the Walther's Russian designed cousin. The Makarov PM, I would hardly call it obsolete.

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Vaya con Dios