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  #101  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:06 PM
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Kel Tec P3AT LCP and Ruger LCR...
  #102  
Old 01-26-2019, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEmodelof1989 View Post
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how many police departments in America trust the Taurus brand to protect their boys in blue. The fact that departments are just as inclined to use s&w as they are glock and sig, STILL says everything about why Taurus can't make the lineup.
Many police departments specify particular brands of firearms for many different reasons. Most of the time, companies like S&W, Colt, Sig, and Beretta get the nod because of their superior aftermarket support. As some have acknowledged, Taurus' factory repair is spotty at best. My old department, the largest in the Rocky Mountain area, wouldn't allow us to carry Kimber semi-autos, because the factory refused to certify that their firearms would work with our duty ammo, Speer Gold Dot, back in the mid-2000s. (They made further restrictions in 2013 - only 9mm or 45 ACP, Glock, S&W M&Ps, or Springer XD/XDMs for on-duty.)
Many foreign police agencies use Taurus, Rossi, or Bersa for duty guns, particularly in their home countries. I don't expect anyone to think that's a good idea or not. I'm just acknowledging that there are differing opinions out there.
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  #103  
Old 01-26-2019, 03:10 AM
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There's a huge difference between manufacturers who properly procure licensing rights from one another, like Winchester and FN did with John Browning, or paying royalties as Springfield Armory did with Mauser versus founding a company on knock-offs.

Here's an interesting passage excerpted from "Smith and Wesson Handguns" by Roy McHenry and Walter Roper, chapter 21 entitled "Imitations of Smith & Wesson Revolvers"

"Smith & Wesson, Colt and other top-notch American manufacturers always had to contend with cheap imitations of their products as quickly as patents expired...
Americans visiting the Latin-American countries sometimes returned with stories of automatic pistols and revolvers looking almost exactly like the American weapons, but curiosity about their origin or manufacture was negligible...
New lines of revolvers began to appear in show windows of the cheaper stores. To the casual observer they seemed to be Smith & Wessons and Colts, and as the price was low, many were sold. Only when they were examined more closely was it apparent that the names “Colt” and “Smith & Wesson” stamped upon them applied to the cartridges they were supposed to shoot, and not to the firms manufacturing them.
Externally, these guns were not unprepossessing. They were nicely polished and the bluing was quite good. Mostly they simulated the Smith & Wesson Military & Police Model and the corresponding .38 Colt models.
Not until the cylinders were revolved and the triggers pulled was the worthlessness of the weapons exposed. Cylinders failed to index accurately and the action, instead of being smooth and precise, worked like a coffee grinder.
The rifling in the barrels looked all right to the naked eye, but when examined under a magnifying glass and a strong light it exhibited humps and ridges which didn’t belong there. One disgusted purchaser turned his gun over to a metallurgist, who reported that the barrel and cylinder were of cast iron, such as was ordinarily used for stove lids, and that the parts making up the action were not much better...
Since patents covering the imitated Smith & Wesson revolvers had all expired, infringement suits were out of the question, and it was decided to bring injunction suits against the importers for unfair competition in trade. It is customary, in suits of this nature, to apply first for a preliminary injunction, restraining the defendants from performing the acts complained of, pending determination by the court of the wisdom and justice of granting a permanent injunction."

The quote goes on to detail how these makers were forced to grudgingly apply some markings as to name and place of manufacture, but the negative sentiments, and overall inferior quality, remained.
Similar sentiments have been expressed over the years by such writers as Elmer Keith and Julian Hatcher, neither of whom felt the need to be corporate shills for the advertisers of the publications for which they often wrote.

Admittedly, product quality has improved somewhat, but beyond simple cosmetic changes such as vent ribs, etc. their revolvers remain S&W knock-offs.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to come on the S&W Forum, and try to find a lot of appreciation for a company whose foundation is as shady as it is.

If you're just looking for a pat on the back, or reassurances, maybe it's best to post such things on the Taurus Forum instead of grousing here about the Smith & Wesson "Snobs".

Jim
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  #104  
Old 01-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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I won't bash Taurus but I had one, needed their warranty and it just got worse from there. I've wrote about it here. This was my first and last Taurus. Don't care what they build and where... if the people behind a product don't back it up I'm done. I can look for the link if you like...
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  #105  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:12 PM
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As much as it hurts to hear this, it still comes down to personal choice. Accepting the law abiding choices of others is another pill for good mental health.
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  #106  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:38 PM
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I’ve read every post so far. It’s obvious that Taurus quality control is 50/50.

When you buy one, you are taking a 50/50 chance that you will or won’t have problems. Not good odds. They are cheap for a reason. They have a life time warranty for a reason.

Sure it’s a personal choice. But not a choice that makes sense. Would you buy anything else knowing those odds? Would you subject your personal security or those you love to those odds?

I’m 0-8 with Taurus products both new and used. So I feel qualified in bashing them every chance I get. I have checked in new Taurus guns at my LGS that had to be returned due to defects. So now the LGS will not stock them. Only special order.

There are a myriad other brands that don’t cost much more than to even consider buying a Taurus.

Buy what you want. Make yourself happy. But don’t complain when something goes wrong. Because you made the wrong choice.
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  #107  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I’ve read every post so far. It’s obvious that Taurus quality control is 50/50.

When you buy one, you are taking a 50/50 chance that you will or won’t have problems. Not good odds. They are cheap for a reason. They have a life time warranty for a reason.

Sure it’s a personal choice. But not a choice that makes sense. Would you buy anything else knowing those odds? Would you subject your personal security or those you love to those odds?

I’m 0-8 with Taurus products both new and used. So I feel qualified in bashing them every chance I get. I have checked in new Taurus guns at my LGS that had to be returned due to defects. So now the LGS will not stock them. Only special order.

There are a myriad other brands that don’t cost much more than to even consider buying a Taurus.

Buy what you want. Make yourself happy. But don’t complain when something goes wrong. Because you made the wrong choice.
I really don't care, your experience, and claims are not any of my business. You can make them all you want, but in the end I will do what ever I feel like doing as long as it is legal. On top of that I could not care less what others do that is legal. Now if you can show me where buying a Taurus breaks the law I will listen, until then mehhhhh.
  #108  
Old 01-26-2019, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
I really don't care, your experience, and claims are not any of my business. You can make them all you want, but in the end I will do what ever I feel like doing as long as it is legal. On top of that I could not care less what others do that is legal. Now if you can show me where buying a Taurus breaks the law I will listen, until then mehhhhh.
Like I said, whatever makes you happy.
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  #109  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:09 PM
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Like I said, whatever makes you happy.
Not make me happy, keeps my happy. Other people's problems do not involve me, don't intend to start now.
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  #110  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
I really don't care, your experience, and claims are not any of my business. You can make them all you want, but in the end I will do what ever I feel like doing as long as it is legal. On top of that I could not care less what others do that is legal. Now if you can show me where buying a Taurus breaks the law I will listen, until then mehhhhh.
Funny how people's morals change from company to company isn't it? Bad experience with a Taurus many moons ago, bash them for life no matter what. Problems with a Sig or Smith, ahh no big deal...

High moral ground based on alleged copyright infringement or the like 80 years ago by people long gone and dead and buried, but mortality gets thrown out the window and the point is completely ignored when the fact that S&W broke the law and did something just as immoral not to long ago to Glock...

There's just two sets of rules and a lot of hypocrisy with some Taurus basers...
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  #111  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:15 PM
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I purchased the misses a Taurus m94 22lr revolver. It’s been a awaesome shooter. But then again I collect older h&r revolvers in 22lr too. I have colt, s&w and ruger in 22lr. My one Taurus is awesome. I’d like to move her up to a s&w combat masterpiece 4”/38special someday.

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  #112  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEmodelof1989 View Post
Taurus as a whole fills a niche market.

If you shoot seldom: buy a Taurus.
If you don't care how heavy or gritty your trigger pull is: buy a Taurus.
If you are looking at it as from a great distance: buy a Taurus.
If you are broke: you probably shouldn't be buying guns.
Simply put, if you aren't a firearm guy, I'm sure a Taurus is fine for you.

If you are an avid shooter? S&W
If you appreciate innate quality and performance? S&W
If you appreciate quality craftsmanship up close and personal? S&W

If you can afford a Taurus, just save for a bit longer and buy a smith instead. The price point is REALLY negligible when considering the difference in quality.
I bought an S&W 34 Kit Gun back in around 1980 that has been a real PITA. I've finally got it working good but it has been a learning experience. Same with a used 29, but I got a deal on that one. All S&W's aren't good.
  #113  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
I really don't care, your experience, and claims are not any of my business. You can make them all you want, but in the end I will do what ever I feel like doing as long as it is legal. On top of that I could not care less what others do that is legal. Now if you can show me where buying a Taurus breaks the law I will listen, until then mehhhhh.
Clearly you care a great about what others do that is legal. Otherwise you wouldn't be raising so much Hell in this thread about other people's choice not to waste money on ****** guns.
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  #114  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Clearly you care a great about what others do that is legal. Otherwise you wouldn't be raising so much Hell in this thread about other people's choice not to waste money on ****** guns.
The only thing I have raised "Hell" about is free will, there is not enough of it in our community. Instead we have some so wrapped up in control of others which is a waste of time instead of focusing on the more important issues of the second amendment.

Plus I do get some pleasure seeing people with control issues get in a twist over free will. I do have stock in dry wall after all.
  #115  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Clearly you care a great about what others do that is legal. Otherwise you wouldn't be raising so much Hell in this thread about other people's choice not to waste money on ****** guns.
I don't recall him stating that he cared whether or not the basher buy a Taurus or not. He and others have only be disagreeing with some of the assertions and assumptions that are being thrown around....
  #116  
Old 01-26-2019, 08:08 PM
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If I was like the OP, you know 93 years old, (94 in a month) typing on a computer on a Gun Forum, I'd start a thread and talk about anything that I wanted to! I like guns too!

I hope to be half the man he is at 94...….if I'm still on this planet! CHEERS Shipmate!
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  #117  
Old 01-27-2019, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I’ve read every post so far. It’s obvious that Taurus quality control is 50/50.

When you buy one, you are taking a 50/50 chance that you will or won’t have problems. Not good odds. They are cheap for a reason. They have a life time warranty for a reason.

Sure it’s a personal choice. But not a choice that makes sense. Would you buy anything else knowing those odds? Would you subject your personal security or those you love to those odds?

I’m 0-8 with Taurus products both new and used. So I feel qualified in bashing them every chance I get. I have checked in new Taurus guns at my LGS that had to be returned due to defects. So now the LGS will not stock them. Only special order.

There are a myriad other brands that don’t cost much more than to even consider buying a Taurus.

Buy what you want. Make yourself happy. But don’t complain when something goes wrong. Because you made the wrong choice.
What is "obvious" is that no manufacturer of ANY product can stay in business with the 50% failure rate you claim.

That is a fiscal impossibility. The rework alone would bankrupt them. Taurus, despite a large class action lawsuit settlement (for a drop-safe failure very similar to the one that Sig recently experienced), seems to be doing fine.

Your personal experience is OBVIOUSLY not typical. Spend some time on the Taurus forum. Much like here, the number of failure problems are a very small percentage of the overall opinions and experiences posted.
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  #118  
Old 01-27-2019, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
What is "obvious" is that no manufacturer of ANY product can stay in business with the 50% failure rate you claim.

That is a fiscal impossibility. The rework alone would bankrupt them. Taurus, despite a large class action lawsuit settlement (for a drop-safe failure very similar to the one that Sig recently experienced), seems to be doing fine.

Your personal experience is OBVIOUSLY not typical. Spend some time on the Taurus forum. Much like here, the number of failure problems are a very small percentage of the overall opinions and experiences posted.
Their one of the largest firearms manufacturers in the world. With revenue of almost 200 million per year selling firearms at one fourth of the price of their competition. They're in the top 5 of importers to the U.S. Their revolvers and the PT911 G2 have been in the top selling on GunBroker for 2015-2017. The results are similar with BudsGunShop. They are doing something right... They sell A LOT of firearms, yet within the past several years, their aren't many ACTUALLY OWNERS of their current models who are reporting problems or who are unhappy... Everyone seems to be complaining about Sig and S&W lately.. Taurus make no frills handguns at a price that the working man and woman can afford, and I see no need to bash them or fellow gun owners who choose to buy them...
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  #119  
Old 01-27-2019, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
What is "obvious" is that no manufacturer of ANY product can stay in business with the 50% failure rate you claim.

That is a fiscal impossibility. The rework alone would bankrupt them. Taurus, despite a large class action lawsuit settlement (for a drop-safe failure very similar to the one that Sig recently experienced), seems to be doing fine.

Your personal experience is OBVIOUSLY not typical. Spend some time on the Taurus forum. Much like here, the number of failure problems are a very small percentage of the overall opinions and experiences posted.
50% is based on my experience here locally. I have worked at three area gun shops off and on for the last 15 or so years. What I’ve seen and experienced with Taurus may not be typical. Bad luck maybe. But I still would not give them a second look. That’s if I see them for sale which is a rarity.

I get that you guys love Taurus products but you will never convince me that they are a good buy. I tried. No luck. No need to get butthurt over it.
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  #120  
Old 01-27-2019, 02:01 AM
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I don't believe any non hater here has tried to convince anyone.

Buy what you want, and respect other gun owners, support them, welcome new ones to the fold.
  #121  
Old 01-27-2019, 07:13 AM
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