Wow, I didn't realize Rossi 62's were going for this kind of money. I've got one I bought new to train my sons with about 20 years ago, seems I paid $125.00 NIB for it back then (I think I still have the box). It still doesn't have a scratch on it, I might have a little gem I didn't realize I had.

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- Change it back -

It's an auction. The 15 minute rule may be frustrating but is a fair way to allow for higher bid to come in over the internet. It think those bidders bumping it up a bid at a time don't quite get the idea of a max bid and are just stretching out the waiting game 15 minutes a pop. Maybe they should drop it to 5 minutes but 15 does let a late comer to jump in with a bid.
Now, in a live auction, any auctioneer that would harangue the crowd for 15 minutes for a higher bid would not be in business long.
But some people just don't get auctions. I'm reminded of the time I was at a gun sale and a bidder standing next to me got very upset when the auctioneer wouldn't knock down the sale at his $350 bid. He got pissed and left, grumbling about being cheated out of a sale. The final bid on the gun was over $500. Oh, the unfairness of it all!

John

Won and then complained. What kind of rant would you have gone on if you had lost? I guess some folks are just going to be unhappy no matter what.

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Ban this man,
'89

I've been told by several live auctioneers that the name of the game is "throughput", not necessarily squeezing every last dime out of an item.



Let's say that in a given amount of time (example 10 minutes) an auctioneer can hammer down 10 $100 bids. That's $1000 to collect the premium on. In that same amount of time, with the same items, a good auctioneer might be able to winkle the bids up to $150 but will only sell 4 or 5 items. That's $600 to $750. Guess which way the auction house is going to go.....

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I've won more GB auctions than I've lost. I generally don't bid on things that are showing a large amount of bidding activity. I know what kind of max bid I'm comfortable with on a given item but will never use that number as my starting bid. It's to my advantage to work up to that number and hope I can win the auction before I reach it.

For those that don't like the bidding process there are also many items listed with a "Buy Now" price. Click on it and the item is yours with no bidding. Regardless, by being careful, I've also won some cherished things for significantly under the "Buy Now" price. YMMV.

I think bidding early just stirs up the pot. Just like an in-person auction, bidders can get caught up in the activity. IMNHO, it's best to bid late and decisively. Then go to bed.

"Buy it Now" isn't an auction. It's more of a classified ad.


"Best Offer" is one I'm not quite sure what it is. Is it a 15 minute rule without any time limit? How long should one wait for an answer on their offer? It seems more like an auction without public bids and there is no obligation for the seller to sell. (Or is it just an attempt to get an appraisal without having to pay for it.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Jeez, re-read my posts. I'm not complaining about anything. I am just commenting on the silliness (IMHO) of trying to repeatedly bump a GB auction by a few bucks at the end of the auction hoping to win the bid. The GB software is specifically designed to not provide any advantage in doing this.

In my case, the guy spent about 45 minutes doing this without winning the auction. He finally got tired when he hit $520. So he could have just entered that amount the first time if that was as high as he was willing to go.

Well, this one did. I'm not sure if that's the general market. I just wanted this one, because it appears to be like new based on the comments I received from the seller, a reputable gun shop. And that's what I wanted, something that is unlikely to give me any issues. Knock on wood.

If you check GB for completed auctions, they certainly seem to go in the mid-$300 range depending on condition. There's definitely no shortage of buyers.

I was originally looking at a new Henry .22 pump, which would have cost me $100 less. But the reviews I see on YouTube aren't stellar. It seems that the founder at Henry even suggests people go with the lever instead of the pump. Not a glowing endorsement.

It has been a number of years since I bought off GB. Do live auctions where minimum bid is determined by price. For example a S&W revolver that starts at $300 the increment is $25. Last live auction i bought a very nice M67 for $375 bid + premium and taxes. Only made two bids. Live auctioneers keep it moving.

Yeah that could be funny thing the guy had been a member for ten years and never bought one thing. We went back and forth several times he could have been a shill for the seller. At any rate I got a new in box Python with papers and original bill of sale for about 350 under going rate. I even called and talked to the guy who bought it new who had it for over 20 years and never fired it. At any rate GB is what it is and its always buyer beware.

I like Gun Broker!
It's like the biggest gun show in the world and I can attend in my underwear

I re-read it.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines complaining as "to express grief, pain, or discontent". If you aren't doing that I don't know what it is you are doing.

It's okay, nobody is upset. We all want you to enjoy that expensive Rossi; don't forget the range report.

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Ban this man,
'89

I would be curious as to how you arrived at a $556 max in the first place. At the time, that seems way out of line for what was being offered.



Looks like he jumped in when the bid was about $350 (What I would consider about a reasonable value, give or take, for a Rossi.)


In checking him out it appears that he only has a feedback record of "1". (Another Rossi 62 that he paid $575 for)
To me this indicates he is a very unexperienced bidder, a real Rossi aficionado or he is a shill. Take your pick......

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Looks like he was trying to find the OP's max. I've done the same thing in the past.

Originally Posted by Borderboss:
"This isn't ebay where you can snipe something at the last moment. With GB, you put in the max you're willing to pay and you win or you don't."

If that were true, then how can they do that? Am I missing something (or a few things)?

Who pays Gunbroker? The sellers. Of course it will be set up to make the sellers happy. I don’t think they’re around to get all of us a screamin’ deal on an item we want.
The 15 min rule is there to keep bidding alive and ostensibly, to give a bidder a chance to counter a higher bid.
Sometimes you luck out, most times not. Set your limit and try not to get frustrated, it’s just kind of a game after all.
Often when I get outbid I end up finding a better gun/ deal later

"I just find it odd that someone would try to snipe a GB auction because the GB software is designed to p̶r̶e̶v̶e̶n̶t̶ minimize it."

I snipe GB as nearly as I can and for the same reason; to buy at the lowest possible price. It makes no sense whatsoever to bid early. There are infinite reasons why another bidder can't be there at the bell.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

I suppose I could argue that it is actually the bidders that pay GB. Without bidders there would be no sales. No Sales, no commissions.
(Of course there are a few fees the seller has to pay up front, but those are minor compared to final value fees.)
However I do agree that it seems GB is set up with a definite slant to the sellers advantage. (The 15 minute rule being the most obvious.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I don't have an issue with GB being set up to provide sellers advantages. The sellers are GB's customers. Without the sellers, there is no GB. Buyers will naturally come to GB if the sellers are there with quality products.

That's why Auction Arms seems to be floundering.

Some call it sniping, I call it tactics. Others have made me pay more by doing it, I have made others pay more by doing it. I have entered a maximum bid, forgot it and lost, I have entered a maximum bid, forgot it and got a screaming deal. It's like any other type of gambling, you win some and you lose some, and the odds favor the dealer. As the old saying goes, don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

With all of this discussion of the 15 minute rule, I’ve been giving some thought as to improvements in some of the GB rules and regs that would be of a benefit to the bidders. (Without bidders, no sales….).

First off, the 15 Minute Rule. I personally don’t like it but I will admit that it is a major plus for sellers and GB and of a minor benefit to bidders. I doubt that it will go away, but shortening the time extension would be helpful.

Next, Free Re-listings. I, for one, get really tired of wading though hundreds of relists during a search (some of which have been out there for month after month after month with no change). I see that GB has tried to address this with a 90 day free re-list limit.
I feel there should at least be a charge for relisting unless there is some change on the auction. I would suggest that on all Buy It Now, Starting Bid, Reserve and Make Offer auctions, the asking price should be reduced by, say, 10% to qualify it for a free relist. Other wise the seller should pay a reasonable fee for the relist. I also feel that 3 months is too long a period that a listing should just sit out there without any action.

I’m sure there will be many that disagree with me on this, but, as a bidder, it’s only my opinion.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Interesting thread, I have never bid on GB but this gives me an idea of how it works.
Walt

Nah you're missing anything. The thread starter doesn't like a rule, and he's doing his best to try to come up with a reason why it shouldn't be a rule, but failing IMO. I think the rules are super fair and there are legit reasons for virtually everything being complained about.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Apparently you're missing something. How many times in this thread do I have to say that I don't have an issue with the rule before you get it?

Go back and read my initial post. You'll notice that my only issue was that this other guy kept trying to snipe the auction like this was eBay, when it's not possible on GB (no matter what anyone says). I don't really give a cr*p about that. I put my top bid in and walked away. But this guy just kept extending the auction and lost anyway. Why waste your time when it doesn't work?

The problem I have with it is it restarts the clock even if it is not the high bid. Other than that it is fine.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Maybe he didn't consider it a waste of time. Maybe he was just enjoying himself tormenting "the other guy" and didn't stop to think he'd ever have to justify it. Ya think?

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

Looks like a shill bidder to me.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

Look man, I have no dog in this fight. I'm just giving you a little ribbing because it seems like you're saying "I don't care, I don't have a problem with the rule" but this thread seems to exist as a way to vent about the fact that you actually DON'T like the rules. I feel like people have given plenty of reasons why someone who was not a shill for the seller would bid this way, some of us have even admitted to doing the same thing.

I just don't think you agree, so you're discarding the legitimate reasons as fodder and continuing the narrative that the other bidder was trying to "snipe" the auction, which is IMO not the case.

Fact of the matter is, it is possible to have a complete understanding of the rules and how the 15 minute rule works and STILL bid this way. Obviously it's not a snipe, but intentionally dragging out the end of the auction is a legitimate tactic to try and get the current high bidder, even if they get outbid, to think twice about re-bidding if their high bid is finally outbid. The goal is sort of 3 fold. 1) drag out the auction in hopes mental fatigue sets in with the other bidders, 2) find the high bid without setting a new high bid that's more than $5 away from the old high bid, 3) win the item at all cost - time-wise, at the lowest cost monetarily.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Because some times it does.
And it costs nothing but a little free time to get something as cheaply as possible.

There's another thing being overlooked and that it could have simply been an absentee bidder, using an automated auction bidding (sniping) service to proxy bid, and they were not even logged on.

That kind of bid pattern with the same small increment repeatedly submitted, has all the hallmarks of an automated auction sniper such a Bidnapper battling with a bidder that had put a high "max bid" amount that was causing bidnapper to auto bid against each bid, and a seesaw bidding battle between computers ensues until the max bid amount of someone is finally reached.

Many people use them when they can't be online at the time of the auction close to see if they are the winning bidder or raise their bid if they aren't. A very common practice on eBay.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I doesn't seem like you understand how the software works. You can out bid the No. 1 guy by a million dollars but the software is only going to post an amount equal to the previous No. 1 guy's max bid + $5.

And if the shill accidentally does exceed the legit bidders maximum, what then?? Technically he has just won the auction and the seller has to pay the Final Value Fee. I assume he will find some way to null his bid and leave the legit bidder with a max bid win. I've always felt that if a "winning" bidder defaults the next highest bidder should fall back to whatever the bid was before the defaulter started bidding. I don't imagine this would be real popular with the auction site.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I've always assumed the shill (and any fees) is an informed safety net for the seller.

I don't sell, how much is the fee? In some cases, if the seller has a number of guns and one is lagging way down for whatever reason, I guess it's worth it to eat the fee and try to sell in another setting. In most physical gun shops near me, I've noticed that used guns do eventually move, and their prices tend to be a lot higher than what you pay on GB. There's a place near me that had some FEG HP clones, they were refinished (parkerized) and pretty rough, and were selling for $400 at a time when you could get the same under $300 online.

Gunbroker seems the route to move things fast, and possibly for individuals to get their best price (outside of face-to-face). If you have a shop, you can sell something for more, if you can afford to wait.

I think you are missing Mainsail's point. In some situations (certainly not all, but some), it is very smart to inch up to discover another bidder's high bid. For a poor old guy like me who can never afford to overbid or overpay, the ability to find out that other bidder's high bid is winning information.

But knowing the other bidders max (high bid) is only good at that instant. With the 15 minute rule his max can change in a flash. If he is not paying attention to the closing, and you have found his max, your bid will still be no more than one increment above it regardless if you overbid by .01 cent or $100. Now if there are other bidders that pop in (i.e. "snipers") all bets are off. You will have to start nibbling to find their max. This could entertain you for hours. (And I afraid that it is just that, entertainment. Bid what it's worth to you or what you can afford and wait for it to close.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

The problem is that I do not have unlimited money to buy what I'd like to buy. The truth is that I am old, retired, dirt poor and have no business being in the gun collecting business to begin with. In other words, I need to get crafty and lucky just to win something as cheap as a magazine, let alone a whole firearm.

The bottom line is that the technique and knowing the current high bidder's maximum has been very useful to me. It has made me a winner many times over again. If I had unlimited money and could always afford to bid the maximum for something, I wouldn't need it. I get that. That would be soooo nice!

TTSH, forgive me if I'm missing something obvious; but how does this help you?

I mean, what's different than simply setting a max limit to your bid, and if that's surpassed, letting it go? And by that, I acknowledge having the option to creep up some beyond your initial bid.
Example- let's say I'm looking at an obscure 9mm DA/SA (like my recent purchase, another Star 30M). I have one with extra mags, an additional shooter is fun but not necessary. So I went 175 as an initial bid, that stayed about the range for most of the auction. I dropped behind, but the price didn't climb past 200 with a day left, so I went ahead and bid 225. That gave me high bid @ 201, someone bumped it to 206, and that's where I won.

If someone wanted to chase it, it was there for the taking. They probed once and bailed out.

I do understand being creative overall; I now have 2 Star 30's with 2 mags. Need more mags for the pair, so I looked around. Originals seem pricey on gunbroker and nonexistent on ebay, so I looked around. 31.95 at Numrich, not bad but not great (although they are stated to be Star, not Triple K). But a quick browse showed me Beretta 92S mags with the heel cutout are marked down to 11.95; so I ordered 2 of each. Total pushed me to 84 for 4 mags, free shipping since it's over 75. That's justifiable and now I have more mags for the Beretta on the way, in addition to the Stars.

I have ran up a gun and lost just as many times as it's happened to me. I've been lucky though and not overpaid for anything yet.

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-Matt

I won't bump the bid the minimum just to prolong an auction, but if I'm going back and forth with someone else for the top bidder spot you can guarantee that I'll take almost every second of that 15 minutes in hopes of the other guy not having the time. Sorry, but it works. What I don't understand is guys that bid before the last 15 minutes of an auction. I mean seriously, what is the point of that? If you are bidding on an auction and there are several days left then all you are doing is jacking up the price. I don't know how many auctions are won by bidders doing that, but I doubt very many. My guess is most auction winners don't bid till the very end.

Setting your absolute maximum and walking away is just fine if you can afford to pay your maximum for everything you decide to bid on. My problem is that I'm just not in a position to do that. I have to pick and choose my auctions. I have to probe for where the affordable bargains might be and where it is hopeless. In that regard, being able to determine your fellow bidder's bidding technique and current maximum bid without having to go over that bid is something that I find valuable. It's not a strategy I use in every auction or against every high bidder, but sometimes it helps... and sometimes it doesn't. I certainly don't use it in every auction nor do I recommend it for others. It just happens to work at times in my situation.

You lost me .... With the 15 Min Rule, the second you, or anybody makes any kind of a bid in the 15 minute extension, the 15 minutes start over. (This is what started this whole discussion.) As long as anybody bids, the auction will keep running in perpetuity. It requires 15 minutes of NO bids to close.
What some folks can't seem to get their head around is that there is no ending of the auction that you can count on. It will only end when no one is willing to spend any more money. (Brilliant rule for the seller, auction house and shills)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I'm talking about a situation where say me and another bidder are trading that top spot with $10-15 bids. I've bought at least 30 guns off gunbroker, and it has been my experience that you will pay more money if you put in 1 max $ bid, vs bidding in increments. I've just found that when you have a max bid that is a hundred or more over the current auction price then you have guys that just keep bumping it to the point where they are bidding more than they really want to pay just to see if they can edge into the lead. But if at some point they are the high bidder, then you can often wait them out in a bid war for less $. And if you are in a bidding war then making that auction last as long as you are able to increases your chance to win. YMMV. For the record, I like the 15 minute rule. But I'll never understand bidding on a gun that has 4 days left on the auction.

Something else to consider is that it's online, with all the technical nuances and glitches that go along with it. In a perfect world everyone would have a brand new PC and lightning fast internet, but that's not reality. This doesn't address the OP's comment about incremental bidding a few bucks at a time, but in general I think the 15 minute rule is a good idea. It's a good way to equalize the technology differences between bidders, some will need that time just to deal with screen freezes, crashes and refresh the listing and see if they were outbid, and react to it they so desire.

Your analogy is exactly what I experienced with my last two purchases. I played the 15 minute rule game and got a screaming deal, hundreds under what this particular gun sells for there every day. The next one I knew I couldn't be around to watch the last 15 minutes so I put in a maximum bid days before and paid a premium to win it.

Auction sniping is infuriating

Why? Is it just because you think you are about to get a smoking deal and it all goes away with the click of a mouse..


My opinion is if you can't beat 'em, join 'em......
(Besides there is no sniping on GB. )

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

You are indeed a lucky fellow, so far.

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Birds like shiny new toys too.

I sure wish I could make that claim too! But that ship sailed l-o-n-g ago.

This makes no sense to me. If an auction has a number of days left I won't even bother bidding. I prefer to put an item on my watch list and see what it does. If it gets a lot of traffic and goes higher than I wanted to pay I don't even bother.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.