I think they have their place. If you need a very small pocket auto, this is it. Far better than a 22lr in that the 22lr can often have a misfire which is not so often with a centerfire cartridge.

Here are my two NOPD comrades who somehow couldn't shake off those impotent .25 ACP rounds:

Joey Thomas was my NOPD partner's previous partner, so I knew him fairly well. Good dude, really in shape, heavily muscled in the upper body. He took one .25 FMJ above the vest, killed the guy, and then told his SWAT buddies he didn't feel good. He died in the ambulance. His wife was pregnant with their first child.

Detective Joseph C. Thomas, New Orleans Police Department, Louisiana

I didn't know Chris McCormick, but the FBI provides the initial report for a fallen cop's family to get the Public Safety Officer's Program benefits and I did his, so I had to meet with the family. He had a bunch of kids and NOPD didn't provide vests or pay much, so he was saving up to buy a vest with his own money. One round, severed the subclavian artery near near his collarbone. Vest would have saved him for sure.

Police Officer Chris D. McCormick, Sr., New Orleans Police Department, Louisiana

Both guys were dead within 23 hours of each other. Funerals the same day. I hate bagpipes, but respect .25 Autos.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Several years ago there was a shooting reported in a local newspaper in
which a LEO was shot once at close range in the upper chest with a .25
auto. The newspaper article said the officer collapsed and died so quickly
that he never made any attempt to even reach for his sidearm. The perp
was caught a short time later thankfully. The .25 is no different than
any other handgun round. Shot placement and penetration is what
counts. A .25 ACP 50 gr FMJ round will very often completely penetrate
an upper torso from a facing frontal shot. Believe it folks.

The .25 auto is not just a pocket pistol.
Regards,
turnerriver

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turnerriver

I was not talking about saws, or frying pans, but, .25 ACP pistols. a very popular, long standing, proven, choice, of weapons, for that purpose. they are and always have been, a good, choice for deep concealment weapons. OBTW, I notice that you didn't volunteer to be the subject for my experiment. If I ever decide to test saws, or frying pans, as concealed carry weapons, I will get in touch with you. Thanks.

Chubbo

The biggest farmer in the little community where I grew up carried a baby browning .25 in a hunter holster on his belt like the one shown here. He said it was for “fine” work. He carried a ‘94 30-30 as his primary.

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Possum—The other white meat!

Never been good with my hands,either for judo or karate.I'll take one of these instead!While not of a sufficient caliber,it sure beats nothing!

At one time I owned a Beretta 950 Jetfire. Shot it a bit and had some fun with it. Then sold it many years ago, thinking why would I ever need another pistol in 25?

Well, then earlier this year, I was given 5,000 rounds of high end defense ammo from the late 1980s called PPS (Personal Protection Systems). just under 2,500 of those rounds are in 25ACP. The ammo is packaged like the picture below, which is in 45ACP. Supposedly in 1988 a pack of 6 rounds sold for $15!



So, on the hunt I went for a replacement for my Jetfire. About a month ago I came across an almost unfired PSP 25 Baby Browning. So far I've shot about 60 rounds through the little pistol and it sure is a lot of fun! IT will certainly take me quite some time to go through 2,500 rounds of 25 though!

Caliber wars never make sense to me. I would not want to encounter a guy in a dark ally with a small caliber knife with minimal penetration like an icepick. I’m sure some people would claim he’s ineffective unless he has a larger more capable caliber knife like a Bowie, because the icepick is too skinny and short to actually kill. I’m of the belief that any diameter hole in my flesh will leak and may cause death.

I have a couple of 25’s, nothing special. The Phoenix Raven was to cheap to pass up and the Beretta 1919 was from a relative that has since passed. I have a rule that I must have at least two guns in any caliber to justify stocking ammo. At one time I frequented a gun shop that took in trades and would always sell any little Saturday night special for $15 to $20 so I had visions of collecting them just because everybody seems to hate them. About the same time the owner retired and the guy that bought the shop wants too much money. Probably a good thing or I would have a huge useless collection of zinc framed junk.

Attached Images

25 autos.jpg (42.7 KB, 31 views)

Thanks bunches Paladin85020 for posting this thread.

There's something about the .25 ACP that elicits a strong reaction, one way or the other from folks.

I had a good time some years ago doing a opinionated write-up on the .25 ACP. Stuck it up here on Smith & Wesson Forum. Rather than to reinvent the wheel I'll just link to it. It's post No. 30 to this old thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...#post135394140

Have a few .25 ACPs on hand here.

Colt Model 1908


Astra Model 1916(?) with loaded chamber indicator.


Helfricht Model 3 (worlds homeliest .25 automatic)


All these feed and function with with perfect dependability. There's something to be said for dependability.

The "mouse guns" photo. Probably have placed it on the Forum before.



Vintage leather for mouse guns. A Bucheimer Tolson holster.

Fine craftsmanship in a pocket pistol is still available today for a price

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John

Hi John, I will try to give a reply to your original post on 'what good is a 25 ACP'. First, I need to comment that they moniker 'mouse gun' I have always found to be a bit of folly. A writer used that term years ago and I guess it stuck. Those writers (fully knowing you are one, just giving you a hard time).

Relative to the Eurpean and others (not CONUS, or US guns) the thought process was that a handgun was a 'last resort' and not intended for conflict. It is evident in first-hand accounts, documentation of various eras, and other sources which I am too lazy to post. The rifle was the main weapon.

In the US, we used a firearm for both backup and offensive weapon if needed, and I will not go into this any further because you are a considerable subject matter expert more than me.

The difference is with the Colt example. I suspect, that this was intended to appeal to a different demographic and situation.

Markets for these would vary in the period, yet, they served a genuine purpose of self defense.

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Rather be outdoors

Not to make light, Sig, but I do believe that, should the roles be reversed, we would consider that a sub-optimal situation for the .25's user.

I see a lot of "oh, the .25 is certainly lethal!". Great, super. I don't care if the guy dies, that's not the point. The point is to stop his shenanigans before he can kill or grievously injure the shooter.

This was more in response to the idea that you would take a .25 ACP round for $100,000. Maybe I missed an emoji.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Re icepicks, have you seen, Basic Instinct, the movie that made Sharon Stone a star?

I bought a deluxe ed. of the DVD that actually included a little plastic icepick.

Of course, it can be argued that her character wasn't using icepicks defensively. But I bet her victims were plenty adrenalized after they realized they were in danger.

BTW, every icepick that I've seen has the capacity to kill, if you strike the right areas, esp. critical arteries.

But I'd still rather defend with a .25 auto.

Well, I cant find the video now but the Hornady critical defense 25acp is impressive enough for me to carry a 25 in the summer.

I was facetiously pointing out that value is relative. More than once I've been rolling around in a decent-but-not-affluent neighborhood and been struck blindside by a co-worker's comment about "mansions". I've dealt with idiots stealing deposit bags that they signed for, because said bag had $2000 in it and what-the-hell-why-not-try. For reference, this would have been a month's pay, for which they lost their job and went to jail.

People are stupid. Maybe they think I won't shoot them, maybe they think they can disarm me before I can shoot them too bad. Either way, I think something in the 9-to-45 range (inc .38) is preferable.

Even more worrisome is when I hear folks say things like, "Well, even a .22 muzzle looks pretty big when it's pointed at you." Okay, that's great if I need Joe Sixpack to calm the hell down, but there are plenty of bad folks that have had guns pointed at them before.

TL;DR--We're sorta-normal-ish guys, who think sorta-normal-ish. We just can't fathom the varying degrees of crazy and stupid that exist. Hell, even you, and you actually got some crazy/stupid on your hands from time to time.

I had a beer or two with my Kindly Uncle Carl last night. He shot a perp with a .22LR backup gun. The perp said “Haha you missed me!” He shot the guy a few more times. The autopsy showed the original round went through side to side entering one arm and exiting the other arm. It hit both lungs along the way. After awhile it would have been fatal as his lungs would’ve filled with blood. But four to the heart were more effective. Interesting story. The bad guy had a Bowie knife. Apparently the diminutive size of the pocket pistol wasn’t a deterrent. Carl’s smallest gun now is a 9mm Glock 43. Now we need to open a thread on 9mm vs .45acp, like that’s never been discussed.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Oh, I don't know LPD256.

Let's debate something different and open up a thread on .25 ACP versus 9mm. After all the .25 ACP's diameter is only a tenth of an inch smaller than the 9mm's diameter, which is only a tenth of an inch smaller than the .45 ACP.

If the 9mm can be as good as the .45 ACP as it is claimed these days, even though 9mm is a tenth of an inch smaller in diameter than .45 ACP, then would it not follow that the .25 ACP can now be as good as 9mm because it's a mere tenth of an inch smaller in diameter than 9mm?

Isn't that how modern enhanced ballistics work?

Carrying this a bit further, it could then be argued that the .25 ACP is as good as the .45 ACP since .25 ACP can now be said to now be as good as 9mm.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

And to think that you read it first on Smith & Wesson Forum.

Millions pf cadavers around the world have cursed the "puny" .25 acp for well over a century.

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John

I like the way you think. Along the same lines, a.223 coming out of an AR is only .003 larger than a .22LR. If we could just get the media to realize a Marlin 39A and an AR shoot virtually the same round. Therefore AR’s are just as safe as your Grandpa’s squirrel-gun

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Any size gun can be a deterrent. A .25 auto is surprisingly loud without
ear plugs. My dad had hunted as a teen but did not as a family man and
owned no guns at all when I was a kid. Around 1955 when I was ten
years old he decided he wanted a handgun. He bought a new Beretta 418
(Panther) .25 auto, got a permit and carried it in his pocket everywhere.
One night after leaving one of the less glamorous bars he liked to
frequent some guy tried to rob him at knifepoint. He told me he pulled
the .25 out of his pocket and fired a round into the ground in front of
the perp. He said the guy begged him to put it back into his pocket
and then ran. No one really wants to get shot with any gun.

I'm using 40-grain Hornady V-Maxes over 27.3 grains of Varget in my 26" barrel'd 700 Varmint. I am saddened to learn it is no more powerful than my bullseye pistol loaded with 40-grain CCI SV.

I hope you’re being facetious...

Ya' think?

For whatever purposes the .25 ACP may or may not be useful it excels at starting vehement discussions.

The .25 is slightly larger than my 2-shot High Standard .22 Mag (I won't use the "d word") and slightly smaller than my RM380. That's a gap I don't see a need to bridge. If I replaced the HS, I would be more likely to choose a NAA revolver than a .25.

Personally the only use I find for a .45 ACP is to fight my way to a .470 Nitro Express.

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I need ammo, not a ride.