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  #1  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:11 PM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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Default Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73

I know there are people here who have both so which one would You get. Interested in new current production revolvers only. Really like the vent rib 5.25 inch Mongoose. The MR73 is just beautiful with legendary durability.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:47 AM
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Since you exclude the old Ratzeburg Korths, I recommend the MR73. I find the traditional design and finish of the MR73 more desirable than the practical finish of the Lollar Korths. Chapuis Armes is manufacturing the MR73 currently and has obviously overcome the manufacturing problems that they initially had.

If you would not exclude the Ratzeburg Korths, I would recommend one of those but as a Korth collector I am prejudiced.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:12 AM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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I know what you are saying Andyd. The Ratzenberg Korths Ive seen have been run through the mill. If I could find a pristine full lug example at a decent price I would get one but that isn't going to happen. The Manurhin MR 73 will be here in July and has my name on it. the vent rib Mongoose sometime this month.
I may have to get both. Thanks for you answer.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:16 AM
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For what my opinion may be worth if I were buying I would go with the MR73.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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Between the two of them, I would choose the MR73.

That being said, unless someone else was paying for it and those were my only options, then I would sooner opt for something from S&W Performance Center or Ruger.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:43 AM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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Quote:
something from S&W Performance Center or Ruger.
Thanks but that is not a consideration not that there is anything wrong with either of those revolvers. I was thinking maybe a MR 73 and a Mr 38 match.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Terry Two Shanks View Post
Thanks but that is not a consideration not that there is anything wrong with either of those revolvers. I was thinking maybe a MR 73 and a Mr 38 match.
I would go for the MR 73, not the match model. All the Match does is add a little sight radius. The MR73 is more practical and plenty accurate. I shot a MR32 Sport with adjustable match grip 30-some years ago and was very impressed with it.

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Old 05-12-2019, 10:26 PM
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Not sure why you're dead set on new, but in that case, go with the MR73.
The new MR is much closer to the original than is the Korth.

I've got a couple of each, but originals. I'd never spend the money on a new one when I can get a nice original for not a whole lot more.


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Old 05-12-2019, 10:33 PM
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Buy em BOTH. You only live once, who cares about leaving money, I would like the guns more, just me.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:23 PM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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Quote:
Buy em BOTH. You only live once, who cares about leaving money, I would like the guns more, just me.
It's not just you and is probably what is going to happen. I just wanted to get opinions from people who own both.

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Old 05-13-2019, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
I'd never spend the money on a new one when I can get a nice original for not a whole lot more.
Yeah the only nice full lug Ratzenberg I've seen was twice what the Mongoose is.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Two Shanks View Post
Yeah the only nice full lug Ratzenberg I've seen was twice what the Mongoose is.
Yeah the full lug models bring big bucks, but for good reason.

If thatís what you want, the Mongoose isnít going to satisfy.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:02 AM
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I have a few full lug Korths but my favourites are actually the short lug revolvers. They were made when the quality was at its peak and the action fully developed.



For looks the full lug Korth and the Python will make extra points, though.

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Old 05-14-2019, 10:22 AM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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If that’s what you want, the Mongoose isn’t going to satisfy.
I don't really care for the no lug half lug models. Some guy goes over to Europe and buys them in bulk for two dimes in the dollar imports them and puts them on GB and try to make a killing. You don't know what they have been through or how many owners they have had.
Korth owners like to bash the Lollar Korths for no good reason. They are very wonderful hand fitted revolvers made out of the best of materials.
As far as not satisfied I already have a 4" Mongoose that I am very satisfied with. It is a wonderful revolver and would rather have it than a beat up Ratzenberg model. But that isn't what this thread is about. I was looking for opinions between Lollar Korth and Chapuis MR73 from people who own both as I am looking to get a 5.25 vent rib Mongoose or a MR73.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Two Shanks View Post
I don't really care for the no lug half lug models. Some guy goes over to Europe and buys them in bulk for two dimes in the dollar imports them and puts them on GB and try to make a killing. You don't know what they have been through or how many owners they have had.
Korth owners like to bash the Lollar Korths for no good reason. They are very wonderful hand fitted revolvers made out of the best of materials.
As far as not satisfied I already have a 4" Mongoose that I am very satisfied with. It is a wonderful revolver and would rather have it than a beat up Ratzenberg model. But that isn't what this thread is about. I was looking for opinions between Lollar Korth and Chapuis MR73 from people who own both as I am looking to get a 5.25 vent rib Mongoose or a MR73.
And that is what you got - plus free advice based on personal opinions based on first hand experience. After all, this is a discussion forum and we all are free to discuss even adjacent options and bring them into the discussion.

By the way, the guy importing the Korths and offering them in large numbers on gunbroker is not buying them for two dimes to the Dollar; he pays top-Dollar. I know that for a fact because I follow his buying and he isn't even importing them under his own FFL08 but has to pay a German gun dealer and export freight forwarder a handsome amount, airfreight, customs broker fees, customs duty, FFL08 and marking fees.

I agree that his Korths are just "merchandise" for him and sincerely doubt that he can check them each and assure full function, as some others without doubt do.

FWIW, I have been to both Korth factories and am fairly well aware of the different subcontractors they have used. Based on first hand experience I, as well as BAC, recommend the Chapuis Armes MR73 over a Lollar Korth. Handfitting in Lollar is at a minimum, they started as an factory making precision parts for Italian luxury sports cars and do so on top-notch CNC equipment.

The detour in mentioning Korths built between 1969 and 1975 is based on my personal experience - and preference - of handling well over 50 Korth revolvers and having done some substantial research on them.

Last edited by Andyd; 05-14-2019 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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I have a 2007 Chappuis made Manurhin MR 73, beautiful gun, I can only recommend it, a real European classic.

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Old 05-14-2019, 01:56 PM
Terry Two Shanks Terry Two Shanks is offline
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I have a 2007 Chappuis made Manurhin MR 73, beautiful gun, I can only recommend it, a real European classic.
Thanks classic 12. The MR73 will be here in July. Can't wait to shoot it. I'm thinking I will also get the Korth.

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Old 05-14-2019, 02:08 PM
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The detour in mentioning Korths built between 1969 and 1975 is based on my personal experience - and preference - of handling well over 50 Korth revolvers and having done some substantial research on them.
That's great and you have a very nice collection.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Two Shanks View Post
I don't really care for the no lug half lug models. Some guy goes over to Europe and buys them in bulk for two dimes in the dollar imports them and puts them on GB and try to make a killing. You don't know what they have been through or how many owners they have had.
Korth owners like to bash the Lollar Korths for no good reason. They are very wonderful hand fitted revolvers made out of the best of materials.
As far as not satisfied I already have a 4" Mongoose that I am very satisfied with. It is a wonderful revolver and would rather have it than a beat up Ratzenberg model. But that isn't what this thread is about. I was looking for opinions between Lollar Korth and Chapuis MR73 from people who own both as I am looking to get a 5.25 vent rib Mongoose or a MR73.

I think the Mongoose shoots well. I’ve shot a couple of them. Other than that, it was a disappointment compared to my Ratzeburg guns. To each their own.

Have you ever shot or handled a vintage Ratzeburg model? There’s a BIG difference. That’s why I recommended the MR73.

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Old 05-14-2019, 07:45 PM
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bc1023 the problem is I have never seen a pristine 38xxx or later Ratzenberg Korth for sale. If I did the price would be problematic. The Mongoose is available I can get it for 3500 and is right up there with the best revolvers ever made. Better than my Colt Python and I love Pythons.
Of course you guys with the older Korth collections are going to bash the new Korth I probably would too if I had a collection like that but I don't so for the rest of us if we want a new Korth the Lollar Korth is it.
I had not intended for this to be a Korth vs Korth thread but I appreciate your opinion and it has been a good spirited discussion.

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Old 05-14-2019, 10:01 PM
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I'm familiar with the MR-73, but have never seen a Korth in person. I gather that the QC has slipped? Can someone picture a Mongoose? I've not heard of it, other than the snake-eating viverrid.

Do they have a smaller, concealed carry model called the Meerkat?
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:34 AM
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I'm familiar with the MR-73, but have never seen a Korth in person. I gather that the QC has slipped? Can someone picture a Mongoose? I've not heard of it, other than the snake-eating viverrid.

Do they have a smaller, concealed carry model called the Meerkat?
Nothing slipped

Itís a totally new company and quality is not the same. Totally different gun.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Two Shanks View Post
bc1023 the problem is I have never seen a pristine 38xxx or later Ratzenberg Korth for sale. If I did the price would be problematic. The Mongoose is available I can get it for 3500 and is right up there with the best revolvers ever made. Better than my Colt Python and I love Pythons.
Of course you guys with the older Korth collections are going to bash the new Korth I probably would too if I had a collection like that but I don't so for the rest of us if we want a new Korth the Lollar Korth is it.
I had not intended for this to be a Korth vs Korth thread but I appreciate your opinion and it has been a good spirited discussion.
Terry,

I am afraid to bring this thread closer to Korth vs. Korth vs. Korth but since you mention the 38 series Korth, I want to share a bitter experience with you. I have a Korth .32 S&W Long with serial no. 38437, made in 1989 that is a great shooter. That gun was made long after Willi Korth had left the company. Since that gun shoots fine I was delighted to have found a 1988 vintage .32 Korth in excellent condition with serial no. 38096. 38096 did not group at 25 meters and I left the gun range in bewilderment. At home I found out that the forcing cone was cut way too large.

The pinnacle of Korth quality was while old Willi was still alive. When Graf v. Bernstorff bought the shop, he outsourced the barrel sleeves to a company in close-by Ahrensburg and the sample for the production was out of specification and is an example of the journey back to quality. With also a turn-over in staff, the guns made during that period were a little bit hit and miss, just like the Pythons after the UAW strikes.

Buying a used Korth from a commercial vendor is definitely as risky as you had mentioned in your earlier post.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Nothing slipped

It’s a totally new company and quality is not the same. Totally different gun.
Not wanting to argue with bc1023 but the difference is forged hand ground parts requiring a lot of fitting vs cnc machined from the finest billet available. Less hand fitting required. The cylinder turns a different way. The cylinder will now swing out farther to allow the use of a speed loader. Everything is made in house except the barrel inserts and the grips. Not so with the older Korth.
The new Korth still has a roller trigger that is adjustable from outside. The cylinder notches have been moved to make the cylinder stronger.
In some respects the Lollar Korth is superior to the older Korth in my opinion. All internal parts are the same. Not totally different just upgraded. Im sure someone will be along to correct my terminology or opinion. I still believe the new Korth is the best revolver in production today.

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Old 03-21-2020, 08:52 PM
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Korth Mongoose is next on my list, but I absolutely love my Manurhin MR73. The trigger is fully adjustable and very smooth (as one expects). The Bluing is deep. It's a tack driver and it nice knowing I'll never be able to wear it out in my lifetime.

The MR73 is basically a modified K frame, and many accessories for the K frame will work with the MR73 (Holsters, speedloaders, etc). The main differences are a modified lockwork, where the rebound runs on rollers and the hammer has a shorter arc. The trigger return spring, mainspring and trigger overtravel are all adjustable. The frame and cylinder are forged from a special alloy, and the barrel is hammer forged. Under testing one of the sample guns fired 170,000 rounds and was still in spec when testing was halted.
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Old 03-22-2020, 06:24 AM
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Korth Mongoose is next on my list, but I absolutely love my Manurhin MR73. The trigger is fully adjustable and very smooth (as one expects). The Bluing is deep. It's a tack driver and it nice knowing I'll never be able to wear it out in my lifetime.

The MR73 is basically a modified K frame, and many accessories for the K frame will work with the MR73 (Holsters, speedloaders, etc). The main differences are a modified lockwork, where the rebound runs on rollers and the hammer has a shorter arc. The trigger return spring, mainspring and trigger overtravel are all adjustable. The frame and cylinder are forged from a special allow, and the barrel is hammer forged. Under testing one of the sample guns fired 170,000 rounds and was still in spec when testing was halted.
Nice Chapuis Armes you got there. I am not worried about any of my S&W revolvers to wear out. If anything is running out of spec on them, it is usually a real simple fix. As a high round shooter, I found ammo to cost multiples of guns. On the other hand, if a Korth or MR73 develops a problem, the average person will have a much harder time to have it fixed or just obtain the repair parts.

I am still prejudiced against the MR73 after the first MR I ever shot had the old style piano wire rebound spring failing.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:31 PM
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Hastings has a good supply of parts, and anyone familiar with an S&W will have no problem with working on the internals. Of course any time you go with an 'off brand' there's always the issue with support.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:54 PM
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I have found a source in France and even could obtain a few original Manurhin MR73 grips but that still limits aftermarket options, besides Nill there is little else. Once someone has used Nills, it is anyway hard to settle for anything else but Nill jr. has definitely raised prices well above inflation in the past two decades.
Not that the parts situation is different with the old Korth revolvers, even grips need to be individually fitted for those and opening a Ratzeburg Korth, with its well fitted side plate, to changing the roller bearings is, imho, a little harder than opening a S&W.

I have a few guns on my "to shoot" list before I even get to try the 5" Mulhouse Manurhin MR73 that is just ... smooth.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:49 AM
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Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73  
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Tod,

I have noticed, that you have adjusted the trigger overtravel screw, which leads me to believe, that you can fully appreciate the trigger characteristics of this fine gun! Most collectors will not understand the importance of this little gadget and anyway lack the marksman skills to make use of the inherent accuracy of a good target revolver.

I will take my Mulhouse MR73 with the 5 inch barrel to the range today. I still have some ammo to burn before gunranges and stores in my county will close down, as in neighboring Dallas county.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:33 PM
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Andyd Andyd is offline
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Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73 Korth Nighthawk Mongoose or Manurhin MR 73  
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I need to get used to the five-incher but after finally getting the sights dialed in, the results are promising. I blame the stringing on the black background that makes it hard to get the gun into the very middle of the plate.



Korth or MR 73, or a good S&W 14 or 15, they all will do. A Dan Wesson might, too, as well as a few others.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:51 PM
VictorLouis VictorLouis is offline
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I see there are some RKI's posting here on both brands. Re: the MR73, can you advise if the 3" in fixed-sight was ever imported in either a dull matte-blue, or possibly even parkerized finish? Or would that be a re-deux of some sort?
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