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Old 10-23-2019, 07:01 PM
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Default Found a nice Winchester Model 64

I like old Winchesters, and saw this Model 64 a few weeks ago at a new gun store in my little town. They mostly have new stuff at full MSRP but a few older things that were traded in. They had it priced right, but I low-balled them and they came down a bit and I passed. I figured it wouldn't last long even at their price. I went in there today and there it was. They reminded me of my offer and said they'd take it so I was stuck. I don't really mind.



Its a 30/30 from 1951. 24" barrel, half mag, pistol grip stock.



No extra holes, and the bluing isn't bad.



They put a nice piece of wood on it. It has some dents and dings, but still looks pretty good.



Metal butt plate, in case I need to bust some heads, I guess.



I don't know why it had to get its own Model number, but it has one. They made them in 30/30, .32 Spl, 25/35, and (I think) .219 Zipper. The fore-end is wider and fuller than those on most carbines. Feels good.



I don't know what I'll do with it, but I like it.

Anyone else have one?
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:04 PM
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Ultimate.... Colorado ..... TRUCK GUN!
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:21 PM
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Very nice!

I would have been all over that, congratulations on a great find!
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:45 PM
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That is a real beauty. I recently picked up a 1950 Winchester Model 70, and it wears the same exact butt plate. That is different from the model 94 steel butt plate.

I think you did really well. I would have bought that one in a heartbeat. As is often said, "they don't make them like that anymore".

Best Regards, Les
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:45 PM
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I like it too!
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:37 PM
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Very nice score. My book says 66,783 Model 64 rifles produced between 1933-1957 with 20 or 24 inch round barrel. 219 Zipper had a 26 inch barrel Thanks for sharing a great find.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:51 PM
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I have a pre-war 64 along with several ‘94’s of various vintages, and the 64 is my favorite. I like the balance with the short magazine and the longer sight radius helps too. I think the more you shoot it, the more you’ll like it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:54 PM
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If it could only talk, what news would it bring?
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:57 PM
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I was at a LGS several years ago when a guy walked in looking to sell a used gun.

From the back of the shop, the owner said, "I don't need another 30-30 on the shelf" to the guy. I don't think he saw what it really was - just the familiar outline of a '94.

The guy looked at me and asked if I was interested. I walked away with a 24" Win. Model 64 in nice shape.

SN on mine is 20555xx - so it looks like a 1954 gun from what I can find.

With that, I was feeling I wouldn't need another 30-30 as this one shoots great and feels good.

Then, recently, a Win. Model 94 made in 1958 showed up in a different LGS that I had to buy since we are the same age.

Looks like I need to get some more 30-30 ammo!

Congratulations on your 64 - but be careful, Winchesters like to have family nearby.

Bob S.

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Old 10-23-2019, 09:47 PM
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I've always preferred the rifle pattern to the carbine pattern.

That's also very nice wood by WInchester standards for the era. They were well known for very plain walnut or gumwood stocks.
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:55 PM
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I have handled a few Model 64's and they fit the hands nicely. What I remember about them was an article in, I believe, Outdoor Life, in the late 50's or early 60's where a hunting guide took his young son elk hunting and his son took a bull elk with a 64 in .219 Zipper. You will have to let us know how it shoots. One of my favorite rifles is a Model 1894 in 30-30, with a 26" octagon barrel. Something special about them Winchester lever actions.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:22 PM
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Can’t help but like old lever actions! Tang sight would be awesome on it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonn View Post
Can’t help but like old lever actions! Tang sight would be awesome on it.
As a rifle pattern, the tang should already be drilled and tapped for a tang sight.

They are a bit pricey $150-$200, but the OP should be able to find a nice period correct vintage Marbles or Lyman tang sight for it.

This is a Marbles tang sight with a Merit adjustable aperture. All of my pre-64 Model 94s are set up this way:

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Old 10-23-2019, 10:54 PM
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I've always thought the Win. 64 is one of the best looking lever actions out there!
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:56 PM
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Beautiful rifle. No way I could have passed that up at any reasonable price.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:11 AM
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Dad had a 1952 Model 94 with a Lyman receiver sight. It was arranged that I was supposed to inherit it, dad's wife saw it differently.

Ivan
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:04 AM
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I am also a fan of the Model 64, and I like it better than a 94 in carbine configuration.

Lyman currently produces its classic No. 2 tang sight, and it can be had new for less than $100. Lyman #2 Tang Peep Sight Winchester 1892 92 1894 94 Steel Blue

I bought one of these and put it on a Winchester Model 1892. I'm thinking about buying one for my Model 64 also.

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Old 10-24-2019, 08:39 AM
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Very gun experienced, but what the heck difference is there, between a 64, and 94?
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:52 AM
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I inherited my Grandfathers 64 in .32 special. Very good condition and a pleasure to look at.
Yours is in great shape.
If you’re bored some day take the buttplate off. You never know what you may find under there.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:33 AM
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Be aware the CURRENT production Lyman tang sight uses an O-ring to hold the elevation adjustments (I have one for my 1886) Montana Vintage Arms has real (original) tang sights but more money!

Ivan

PS I found an original Marble's tang sight that was "broken" for $5. I disassembled the elevation barrel, and found the detent spring was backwards! The shop owner offered to double my money for it.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK View Post
Very gun experienced, but what the heck difference is there, between a 64, and 94?
The Model 94 came in both rifle and carbine variants, You could get the rifle pattern Model 94 in a variety of barrel lengths, 20" and 22" 'short rifles', and 24" and 26" 'rifles' (with 26" being more or less the standard), as well as some custom ordered rifles with barrel lengths as long as 32". You could also get a variety of magazine lengths such as a button magazine that ended at the end of the fore end cap, 1/2 length magazines, and 3/4 length magazines.

However, Winchester stopped making the rifle pattern Model 94s in 1924 when they introduced the Model 55 in June 1924. The Model 55 was a rifle pattern built on the same Model 94 receiver. Like the earlier Model 94 rifles, it was available with either a straight stock and pistol grip stock. The standard Model 55 rifle had a 24" barrel and a half magazine. Winchester made about 20,500 Model 55s in total from January 1924 to December of 1932 when it was discontinued.

The biggest differences in terms of "standard" production Model 94 and Model 55 rifles were 1) the Model 55 (and the later Model 64) were not offered in .32-40 or .38-55, although small numbers were made in both models on a custom order basis; and 2) the initial Model 55s (until 1931) were all take down rifles.

In 1933, Winchester introduced the Model 64, still using the Model 94 receiver. In its standard form the Model 64 has a 24" barrel, a half magazine and a pistol grip stock with a curved lever to match the curve of the pistol grip. In 1934 they also started offering a 20" barrel and these are sometimes referred to as Model 64 'carbines', even though they are still rifle pattern. Winchester also made the Model 64 with a 26" barrel.

----

What makes it all so much more confusing is that Winchester also offered pistol grip stocked Model 94s and Model 55s as a special order option. Consequently, you can run across a Model 94 with a pistol grip, half magazine and 24" barrel made in 1912, and then run across a Model 55 made in 1932 with the exact same pistol grip, 24" barrel, half magazine configuration, along with a Model 64 made in 1952 in exactly the same pistol grip, 24" barrel, half magazine configuration. Essentially the same rifles, just three different model numbers.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:33 AM
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Very nice !
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptCurl View Post
I am also a fan of the Model 64, and I like it better than a 94 in carbine configuration.

Lyman currently produces its classic No. 2 tang sight, and it can be had new for less than $100. Lyman #2 Tang Peep Sight Winchester 1892 92 1894 94 Steel Blue

I bought one of these and put it on a Winchester Model 1892. I'm thinking about buying one for my Model 64 also.

Curl
As noted above the "new" Lyman No 2 tang sight uses an O-ring to provide tension on the adjustment barrel to resist movement, rather than a lock.

The "new" and "old" Marbles tang sights are also different. The old sights use a lower barrel nut that locks the upper barrel in place. It's a very secure system. The new sights use a small lock ring at the top that is much less secure. On the other hand, the new Marbles sights are also windage adjustable, and they also offer a model with interchangeable elevators that allow for a great deal of elevation adjustment.

The caveat with any of the adjustable tang sights above is that if you plan to use them to change the elevation in the field, the sight has to be very precisely mounted so that it is precisely centered relative to the bore so that a vertical adjustment doesn't add a horizontal adjustment.

On the Lymans and the older Marbles you have to adjust windage to zero the rifle by either drift adjusting the front sight, or shimming the rear sight base to tilt the sight slightly left or right - and that then makes the windage adjustment very elevation dependent if the sight is tilted off the vertical plane of the bore.

Still, the vintage Marble sight is my favorite.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:09 PM
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Thank you BB57 !!

A wonderful, factual summary. I kept looking for some difference, in the actions, and didn't see any.

Makes me feel better, at my relative ignorance on this subject.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:30 PM
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I happen to have 3...one fairly nice 30-30 and another in 32 Special. The neatest one is a 32 Special I bought from an auction in Buffalo Wy. It has a bolt peep just like the ones on a Model 71 Winchester. Have only seen 2 bolt peep equipped 64s...and another at a gun show in Bozeman Mt that had the cuts in the bolt for the peep but it had been removed. I just found a tang sight(lyman for a very good price $20) that I am going to put on the 30-30. At the same auction I got the bolt peep gun I got a Lyman mold in 32 cal that casts a 170 gr(approx) flat nose bullet. It has accounted for one nice deer from my breakfast nook hunting blind. Well, I do have to open the window...but I have a kinda camoflage bathrobe. The 64s are very nice rifles. They have gotten a bit pricey around here though. I paid 1050 for the one with the bolt peep but was prepared to go to 1500. I also have an angle eject 94 rifle in the same pattern as the 64 but it has a black plastic stock and forend. Ugly. For someone not all that fired up about lever actions I sure seem to have a bunch of 'em. I don't have a 94 carbine in the house though
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:59 PM
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The Model 64s are some of the most beautiful and graceful rifles that Winchester ever produced. When I found this one, I fell in love. It was serialed in 1936 and still maintains 99% quality. The peep rear sight could be factory - options at the time included a number of peep sights from several manufacturers.


(click for larger image)

I did a centerpiece article on the Model 64 in Dillon's Blue Press some time ago, and had a lot of fun researching it. The original draft of the article can be found here:

The Winchester Model 64 rifle...

Here's the 64 as described in the 1939 Winchester catalog -

John


(click for larger image)
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:21 AM
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My weakness for Winchesters is the octagon barrels. Unfortunately for me dealers at the local gun shows price them so high I had no chance to get one. Enter the Winchester commeratives. Found a Canadian Centennial 20" barreled carbine. They sold these as a set both rifle and carbine, the rifle had a 26" octagon barrel. The 20" bbld one came home with me annd after removing both sights front and rear I installed a Williams rear and a Lyman 17 globe front sight. Called it my lever action match rifle. Shot well and enjoy shooting it. Then a few years later was on Cherry's fine guns website. And they had a Canadian Centennial rifle with the 26" long barrel. It also came home. Will make the same sight changes but only shoot cast bullets in it. And my grandson will be getting a boxed Winchester carbine for his birthday one of these years. He's only 2 so I have some time. I'll make up a box out of plywood,sanded and varnished, swap out the rear sight and maybe a couple boxes of ammo. Brass hinges,lock hasp and maybe an engraved nameplate. Bluing is a little worn but give the carbine the used not abused look. Frank
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:23 AM
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I think my favorite Winchester lever guns are the Model 1886 and the Model 1892. I have an '86 to die for, chambered in .45-90. It's an antique in standard rifle configuration: 26" octagon barrel, full magazine, crescent buttplate.

My '92s are .44-40, .32-20, and .25-20. All are in standard rifle configuration. The .25-20 has an octagon barrel, but the other two have round barrels.

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Old 10-25-2019, 06:35 AM
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Congrats on a great treasure!
The 64 is pure rifle elegance and my favorite lever, followed closely by the Savage 99. I like my levers to have a pistol grip.
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Old 10-25-2019, 08:52 AM
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Winchester brought the Model 64 back to life again in the early 70's. Just for a short time, maybe a couple yrs or less.
Those versions don't bring the $$ of the pre-64 or the pre-War production of course. But the configuration still draws customers and a decent price inspite of the post-64 Winchester build.

Classy guns from a classic era.
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank46 View Post
My weakness for Winchesters is the octagon barrels. Unfortunately for me dealers at the local gun shows price them so high I had no chance to get one. Enter the Winchester commoratives. Found a Canadian Centennial 20" barreled carbine. They sold these as a set both rifle and carbine, the rifle had a 26" octagon barrel. The 20" bbld one came home with me annd after removing both sights front and rear I installed a Williams rear and a Lyman 17 globe front sight. Called it my lever action match rifle. Shot well and enjoy shooting it. Then a few years later was on Cherry's fine guns website. And they had a Canadian Centennial rifle with the 26" long barrel. It also came home. Will make the same sight changes but only shoot cast bullets in it. And my grandson will be getting a boxed Winchester carbine for his birthday one of these years. He's only 2 so I have some time. I'll make up a box out of plywood,sanded and varnished, swap out the rear sight and maybe a couple boxes of ammo. Brass hinges,lock hasp and maybe an engraved nameplate. Bluing is a little worn but give the carbine the used not abused look. Frank
I like both the round and octagon barrels in the rifle pattern Winchesters, and I'm a fan of the .38-55. As in your case, finding a nice original Model 94 rifle in .38-55 usually involves around $1000 for one in only fair condition and up around $3500 for one in 90-95% condition.

Consequently, I took the same approach as yourself as some of the Winchester commemoratives are excellent values when you are looking for a good shooting rifle.

For example, the Legendary Frontiersman was way over produced for a commemorative with 19,999 made. The end result is that even in mint condition with box and hang tags they'll only bring around $1,100. That compares to $425 when new in 1979. In 2019 dollars that $425 has a buying power of $1577, so a mint condition LF with box and hang tags represents an almost $500 loss in value to an original buyer. Not a great investment.

On the other hand, without the box and in fired condition they will sell for around $800 in that still near mint condition. That's significantly less than you pay for a new Miroku made Winchester and a new one will have the tang safety rather than the traditional quarter cock hammer notch safety.

The LF, like the Canadian Centennial (over 90,000 produced), also isn't overly garish so it's still pleasant to look at, at least with a nice tarnish on the silver plated receiver.

All of the Winchester commemoratives during the XTR era (1978 to about 1990) were based on XTR rifles, so an added bonus is the XTR refinements in fit and finish.





I recall in the 1980s Winchester marketing commemorative rifles to small communities approaching their 100 year anniversaries. These were XTR based Model 94 20" carbines in .30-30 and they are one of the best ways to buy a Model 94 XTR carbine with the old operating system today. Other than a medallion in the stock and some lettering on the barrel they were standard Model 94 XTRs, so they are again not overly garish. They also sell in the $700 range in near mint condition.
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
As a rifle pattern, the tang should already be drilled and tapped for a tang sight.

They are a bit pricey $150-$200, but the OP should be able to find a nice period correct vintage Marbles or Lyman tang sight for it.

This is a Marbles tang sight with a Merit adjustable aperture. All of my pre-64 Model 94s are set up this way:

Love the lever gun myself, and have a few. The tang sight looks great on a gun, but they take some getting used to. You can't get that tumb on top of the wrist anymore with a tang sight, and when folded down, they are known to place a dent in the wood where the eyepiece hits.

I know, because I had one on a Marlin and took it back off. I found out that I prefer a receiver mounted peep myself. But they sure do look good on a lever gun. Kind'a like a saddle ring, looks great, but seldom used as designed and it too leaves a mark on a gun. However, all of mine are shooters anyway and already have "love bumps" on them from loving to shoot them!
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Old 10-26-2019, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
The Model 94 came in both rifle and carbine variants, You could get the rifle pattern Model 94 in a variety of barrel lengths, 20" and 22" 'short rifles', and 24" and 26" 'rifles' (with 26" being more or less the standard), as well as some custom ordered rifles with barrel lengths as long as 32". You could also get a variety of magazine lengths such as a button magazine that ended at the end of the fore end cap, 1/2 length magazines, and 3/4 length magazines.

However, Winchester stopped making the rifle pattern Model 94s in 1924 when they introduced the Model 55 in June 1924. The Model 55 was a rifle pattern built on the same Model 94 receiver. Like the earlier Model 94 rifles, it was available with either a straight stock and pistol grip stock. The standard Model 55 rifle had a 24" barrel and a half magazine. Winchester made about 20,500 Model 55s in total from January 1924 to December of 1932 when it was discontinued.

The biggest differences in terms of "standard" production Model 94 and Model 55 rifles were 1) the Model 55 (and the later Model 64) were not offered in .32-40 or .38-55, although small numbers were made in both models on a custom order basis; and 2) the initial Model 55s (until 1931) were all take down rifles.

In 1933, Winchester introduced the Model 64, still using the Model 94 receiver. In its standard form the Model 64 has a 24" barrel, a half magazine and a pistol grip stock with a curved lever to match the curve of the pistol grip. In 1934 they also started offering a 20" barrel and these are sometimes referred to as Model 64 'carbines', even though they are still rifle pattern. Winchester also made the Model 64 with a 26" barrel.

----

What makes it all so much more confusing is that Winchester also offered pistol grip stocked Model 94s and Model 55s as a special order option. Consequently, you can run across a Model 94 with a pistol grip, half magazine and 24" barrel made in 1912, and then run across a Model 55 made in 1932 with the exact same pistol grip, 24" barrel, half magazine configuration, along with a Model 64 made in 1952 in exactly the same pistol grip, 24" barrel, half magazine configuration. Essentially the same rifles, just three different model numbers.
My father purchased a used Model 55 sometime before I was born and used it every year hunting for Michigan Whitetails. He kept it in it's take-down case and every year I could hardly wait until fall came around so it would get the rifle down, clean it and make sure it was ready for deer season. Before he took it back apart, he would allow me to handle it and work the lever. He also used this time to teach me about gun safety. Growing up in the 50's with all of the cowboy movies and shows, handling that rifle made me feel like I was in the old west. Still get it out of the safe once a year to wipe it down and bring back memories. I just might have to take it out to the range with me next trip.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:22 AM
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Any of the older Winchester's are very pricey right now. Think I paid $500 for my Big Bore in 375 win, Shudder what my Rifle Canadian Cenntennial would cost today. My cousin had an old Marlin 1893 in 30-30. That was his only firearm he owned. Winter deer,summer woodchucks,fall squirrels and back to winter and deer. Except for a week or two when he'd shoot the two pigs on the side of a mountain for winter meat.Raccoons was also a favorite meat for him.Frank
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:41 PM
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I love leverguns, side by side shotguns, 1911s. And smith revolvers.
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