I’ve been good so far and not bought anything for a little while and was thinking about a Ruger PC Carbine but the prices seem all over the map. LGS has one for ~$500. It’s the regular one not the Reising look alike. If you have one how do you like it.

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy

Have you tried doing a search? The Ruger PCC has been discussed a few times. Here's a recent thread: Ruger PC Carbine?

There are several threads you can view. Ill add that I haven't read a bad review about the Ruger PCC. My father in law has one and loves it to death. There are lots of great PCC'S on the market but for the price, ability to use Glock mags and a take down feature this is a hard one to beat.

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Buy one, you will not be sorry. I used one in our firearms program at a fancy resort. We purchased a variety of 9mm carbines that could be used on our steal pistol range. We and most of our guests liked the Ruger over the other offerings.

...and I'm dreaming about Ruger or Beretta carbine. I've always been carbine nut but 9mm is the cat's meow and they are fun as gangbuster.

I like carbines so much that I would like to use it as a home defense because they feel so natural and I have great control with them. The Kel Tec works very well, but I don't think it's of the quality to depend on for life or death.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Definitely a winner. I think it is the perfect home defense carbine. 400 ft/lbs, or so, about duplicates a .357 Mag in a handgun.

Perfect function, with a variety of ammo, including +P+.

Mine has a superb trigger, maybe the luck of the draw, but super nice.

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I recently bought one and the Glock magazines are so loose in it they move about a quarter inch forward and back. I called Ruger asking about it and shook the gun next to the phone, sounded like a maraca. They seemed concerned and sent a shipping label. I’ll send it in after the holidays. I have never in my life encountered any firearm with such a loose magazine, and that includes haggard mixmatched Kalashnikovs.

Unlike the others, I did not care for mine. It's heavy for the cartridge, mostly because of the heavy bolt required by virtue of it being a blowback gun. That heavy bolt is also coming back every time it fires, which causes surprisingly high recoil. Mine was also not as reliable as I would've liked. I understand why most of the modern 9mm carbines and subguns use the blowback design (they're cheap and simple), but running an MP5 for awhile will ruin them for you. I sold my PCC pretty quickly and was happy to have done so.

People complained that a M-1 Carbine is way under powered, yet it is 800 ft lbs. The 9mm is about 400! I had two of the Marlin Camp 9 Carbines, and found them woefully under powered on pest animals on the farm. If a 20 pound animal runs away what will a 180 pound thug do?

I know a number of farmers that use M-1 Carbines, but I know none that use any pistol caliber carbine (9mm, 40S&W or 45 ACP) there are some 357, 44 mag and a old 44-40 lever guns in service around Central Ohio.

I would thing in areas where larger predators abound, larger caliber rifles are the minimum.

I don't sell any of these guns, you should think about the unlikely but real world use! Other wise, you can run around playing Army with a Cap Gun or a 22 Long Rifle if ammo cost is a real concern.

Ivan

I got an email from Buds and they are selling the takedown for $399 with free shipping on their website.
I think that's about the best price I've seen for one

Ruger PC Carbine 9MM 16.12 Takedown TB/Fluted 17RD | 19100 - Buds Gun Shop

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More fun than You can stand! Shoot 500 rounds and not break the bank when you buy bulk packs, shoots steel and aluminum case and asks for more with 0 problems. I have shorter arms and fingers so I took the stock spacers off and it fits me perfect and feels short and nimble handling to address multiple steel plate bad guys! This carbine was well thought out and designed and made to last. Glock mag issues seem to be with the cheaper brands of mags and some of the high caps do fit loose but does not drop out or cause feeding malfunctions. When set up for ruger mags the mags fit more snugly. The shooting feel and handling are superb and I beleive it will be available in many calibers soon. Had mine for about a year.

400 ft lbs is pretty close to the bottom of the scale isn't it?

Looking at the Ballistics By The Inch site, out of a 16" barrel (typical for a carbine) the bottom end of all the 9mm rounds they tested made 400 ft lbs, several made 450, and a bunch made 550-650 ft lbs
Ballistics by the inch

It seems like a 20 lb animal running away after being hit with 400-650 ft lbs energy would have to have taken a pretty poor hit.

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I do. My Sub 2000 with 30 round Glock magazine is my car gun. 100% reliable with Q4318 NATO. I threw a red dot on it. Good if I'm changing a tire and the Gang of Four shows up.

And I just got a Beretta cx4, will shoot it this week. It will replace the venerable pump shotgun for home invasion work.

Jimmy is old fashion:
I like shoulder arms to be in a rifle caliber and a handgun to be in a handgun caliber.

Comparing the terminal effects of a round in wild animals with that in humans generally doesn't go well.

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Release the Kraken

True, most animals are smarter!

I think the comment Jimmy J made is considered pretty true. People are "Old Fashioned" if they reject new ideas. It doesn't matter if the idea is good or not. I was just pointing out, a cartridge of 30 to 50% m0r4 power was considered under powered.

The real problem with 9mm & 40 S&W long guns is: people think they will have typical long gun performance at typical long gun ranges!

I have a friend that was shot just above the knee with a 55 grain soft point 22 caliber center fire bullet (we assume either 223 or 22-250) back in 1975. It really didn't do much damage! Why, because it was from over a mile away. Bullets have a useful range! 9's & 40's run out of range pretty quick! It is true, that with a carbine most people will be able to hit something at 100+ yards and even much further! But what is it really capable of when it gets there.

Not every situation demands a Main Battle caliber (308/3006/7.62x54R/303 Brit), that's why most modern armies have gone to 223 or 7.63x39! But 7.62x25 and 30 Carbine were considered marginable in the 1950's and they both way out perform 9mm & 40 in carbines!

The OP ask for opinions about a 9mm carbine in particular, and my opinion is more in general. But at least I have used all of the above cartridges if the field and at distance of 100+ yards, and at those distance ringing steel plates and shooting pop cans is the extent of their potential.

Ivan

Yeah, obviously a 9mm carbine isn't a long range weapon.
More suited to fairly close work on small to medium game or defense of a fortified position within a 50-100 yard perimeter.

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Based on large numbers of reviews the Ruger 9mm carbine sights are not well liked. But Ruger expects everyone will add a dot sight of some kind.
Geoff
Who is still looking...hummm I haven't checked the usual sale prices the day after Christmas.

I've got three PCCs; a Beretta CX-4 in 9mm a Ruger 77/357 and a Winchester Trapper.

The Beretta, with a red dot, is a PDW at ranges out to 75yds.... maybe 100 if the SHTF.....and pairs nicely with my Beretta 92 Centurions. Common magazines from the factory or Mec-Gar in 15,17,18,20 and 30 rds. Shorter than a AR with the stock collapsed..... about 5.5lb IIRC. While not a battle rifle I can get fist size double and triple taps out to 50 yds a lot faster than I can with a pistol....... there is a reason SWAT and Special operators used the MP-5 for decades. Not for full auto...... but.... for fast shot placement

The Ruger with a Weaver 1-3x20 shotgun scope... is my utility rifle in Penn's Woods out to 100yds.

The Winchester in .357 is like a piece of rock candy ...... for looking at! LOL it's too nice to drag though Penn's Woods. But would be a handy little Politically Correct carbine.

Univibe is progressive. Let off 5.56 in a room, and you get permanent hearing damage and maybe disorient yourself when you need focus the most.

But 9mm from a 16" barrel while still loud, is quieter than 9mm from a handgun.

I was in a small gun store years ago. Guy was working on an AR in the back room. An open standard sized door separated the back room from the main floor. Gun mechanic let off a round, somehow. It was insanely loud even from the next room through the doorway. Like permanamet hearing damage, for all I know.

So: PCCs make a lot of sense as home invasion weapons.

On the gun, I don't own one so can't give an opinion.

On prices, there's one for sale on another gun board in the $325 range like new but used with 50 rounds through it.

9mm target ammo is super cheap at the moment. PCC works great as a range gun, plinking targets.
the 9mmNATO 124 gr ammo has plenty of power , I use it in all my 9's.

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

Hickock45 likes the Ruger. I'd like one too at $400, so far they are $550 locally.

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There are many stories about 30 carbine not getting it done in Korea due to frozen clothing worn by the Koreans and Chinese. I've never bought into this, as I suspect many of the "failures to stop" were actually "failures to hit". The linked video is most instructive.


I also pulled this from a CMP forum.

Note the part about letting them get closer. Open up with an M1 carbine at the same time as the Garand boys start engaging and you are 1) likely to miss 2) suffer underwhelming terminal effects as the range is way beyond the effective range of the round.

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The weight is what turned me away from getting one, being it's slightly heavier than my Mini 14. I liked the idea of takedown until I saw the specs.

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9tenz

I would have a Ruger PCC if I didn't already have a USGI M1 carbine. I think I would be disappointed with the 9mm after having so much fun with 30 carbine. It's good out to 200 yds. I can't see making that shot with a 9mm. Ammo would certainly be the 9mm's strong point but I reload so I'm shooting for about the same price as 9mm factory. Just takes time to load it.

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Mini-14 is hard to beat. Mine shoots right up there with an AR but I've done some work on it. Once you get the trigger tuned and get rid of that ridiculous factory gas port they're pretty amazing.

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Know also that blowback carbines as a rule like hotter ammo. Q4318 NATO works fine; 115 white box may or may not; 147s are problematic.

Re: mini 14. I had one for years as a car gun, sold it recently to buy a 6920. Problems: 1. Lack of accuracy. 2. The only mags that work are factory 20 round ones. 3. If you need a part, you must go back to Ruger. 4. Optics mounting. Why would anybody mess with a mini when you can get a M&P Sport AR for $499, and a spec grade AR for < $1000?

My Ruger PCC kills gorillas.

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I think many WWII troops did ok with shoulder arms in a handgun caliber!

American Rifleman | The G.I. Thompson In World War II

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I agree, the Ruger 44 Mag Carbine was and is a fine close to medium range Big Game gun. It is a pistol cartridge carbine, a modern equivalent to a lever gun. It is nothing like THE PPC in 9mm or 40, except for the handy size. I had a Class III dealer tell me, "If Bill Ruger had designed the 44 Carbine with 20 round or even 10 round stick magazines, I would not have been able to sell a dozen Thompson's!"

That was from a guy that had fired everything from 32ACP Scorpions to 50 Cal M-3 Browning's!

The usage of a "American Rifleman" article about Thompson's with a 8" barrel, in 45AC) isn't exactly Apples to Apples. In the US we call them SUB machine guns, most of the world calls this category; machine PISTOLS, and for good reason. (I do own a Marlin Camp 45, and love it! But still don't think that 45 ACP from a 18 inch barrel can keep up with an M-1 Carbine. Then throw in good 30 Carbine defense ammo into the mix and we are talking a real gun for the job at hand.

But SOME people, believe 30 M-1 is not power enough! I know 2 people that shot humans with 30 Carbine. One a US Army guard at a prison farm, used it on a fleeing escapee. Hit him in the back at 150 yards and threw him 20' forward, on his face (the prisoner lived, but screamed the whole time!) The other was a police officer with a personal owned weapon using ball ammo against a small group of armed burglars. The outdoor gun battle lasted about 10 minutes with 2 dead, one wounded, and a medium riot because of the races involved! (the police officer was out numbered, but no way near out gunned-which is why he had the carbine in the first place!) Both of these stories are from the 1960's Today they both would have been carrying a 223 M-4 or M-16, and the 2 wounded most likely would not have survived!

Ivan

You must be talking about the 180 series mini. I haven't noticed that my 580 series is any less accurate than my buddies S&W Sport that I've shot. I did have to tune my trigger tho. I've been told the early 180 series were terrible but I have no experience with that. Neither one can match a good bolt rifle. The 580 series has three cartridge choices, the sport only one. 7.62x39 (Mini 30) makes a lot more sense in a carbine length barrel anyway. Never had a problem with parts or Ruger service either and my 10 rd. mags work just fine.

You may be forgetting one other small detail also. The sport has direct impingement where the mini has a gas piston. I'll assume you know the difference.

But the Sport is less money. 6920 is gone. So much for spec grade.

I'll add one more thing here. I'm not a yuge Ruger fan. I've had a few and moved on. The 580 Mini works however and it has a yuge following.

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My Mini-14 is the NRA/580 version with a 16.?" heavy barrel.
Added a Hogue Gillie Green stock and Weaver 1-3x20 scope ..... with factory 10 rd mag. from more than 20 ft it has a very "un-tacticool look". But with 10 round mag backed up by 20round factory magazines loaded with .223 soft point ammo..... it's the prefect SHTF rifle..... just put it in the truck for a run into Penn's Woods in the Laurel Highlands of Pa.

The Beretta CX-4 9mmPCC with 20/30 rd magazines is a fairly low profile PDW for the "Burbs of the Burgh" when paired with my Beretta 92 Centurion

AR's are reserved for TEOTWAWKI and the next "zombie apocalypse"



They are all fun at the range!!!!!!

FWIW, Ruger is one of those companies that focuses too much on their niche - value-oriented shooters. I picked up the new PCC and recoiled in horror... not only was it portly, but it had a terrible balance.

I have three blowback 9mm carbines already, I enjoy them, as well as a SP101 and 10/22. I am the prime market for the PCC. The Basic ergonomics, especially when matched up against an AR 9mm at the same price point, doomed the PCC.

Ruger managed to take a simple blowback 10/22 PCC design and enhance all the negative features - recoil and weight for 9mm. Ruger has a well-founded history of making the engineering decisions that minimize cost, usually producing a decent, low priced gun. The PCC is tilted too far in the direction of manufacturing ease (ala Keltec) and too little on the shooter.

I expect the PCC will soon join the PC9/PC40 and other orphaned Ruger designs. They didn’t refine it enough to make it a classic and I doubt it will have the market presence to become a 10/22. If you like it a lot, buy them now and stack them deep. Even if you just want to try them out, $300 now may sell for $500 a decade from now (maybe outpacing inflation).

With the optic I have, why bother with all the accurizing.

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9tenz

Old school for me...

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I just got a Beretta cx4 9mm carbine. Makes the Ruger feel like a bloody log. Darth Vader's choice for his personal bodyguard . With one of these you could defend a whole block in the L.A. riots.

Highly unlikely!

However the Asian store owners that tried, did pretty well with 30-30 lever action rifles!

Remember this old saying: " Long distance, is the next best thing to being there!"

Ivan

Looks like something from the last century. Never seen one.

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An elegant fun classic that uses cheap ammo. I think that’s what the OP was looking for?

Less noise when defending the house, less overpenetration, 25 rounds in a bad guy > 1 round in the wall.

Being made in Israel they're common with Israeli military. Typical tritium reflex sight. I had some GG&G rail left over so I stuck a Crimson Trace rail laser on the front. It doesn't show up in the view. Is it practical? I like to think out of the box a lot. You ought to see my laser setup on my Marlin 44 mag, pre-Rem JM stamp btw.

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9tenz

I have a Beretta CX4 in .40 S&W I picked up cheap. I’d like to find one for the same price in 9mm.

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I have a first generation Ruger PC4 that I currently carry in my patrol car. It replaced a USGI M1 carbine that I carried for well over a decade as a patrol carbine. The M1 carbines, that our department purchased through an LE only purchase program in the late 1990's, served us well and I would likely still be carrying the M1 carbine if ammo cost was not an issue.

In my opinion based on experience the M1 carbine only comes up lacking as a LE patrol carbine when compared to a main battlefield rifle or sniper rifle, which it was not designed as either. In the law enforcement environment I typically find that, and due to our training methodology, if I need to shoot out more than a hundred yards I should probably hold the fort until the Special Response Team arrives.

When I retired my M1 carbine I gave a lot of consideration to a .223/5.56 caliber rifle and I reviewed the instances when I deployed deployed my M1 carbine in past years. The first generation Ruger PC's were still being manufactured at the time and since our department issue handgun is in .40 S&W there was an attractiveness to using the same ammunition. After a great deal of comparison shooting, I decided on the PC4 rather than a .223/5.56 caliber rifle, but not because there is anything wrong with an AR. I was given the option and I am comfortable that the Ruger PC met the mission parameters, proved very reliable in adverse conditions and with a variety of bullet styles, was plenty accurate at the necessary range, and ammo conformity was a plus.

Again, I'm using a first generation Ruger PC (although I have fired the second generation as well), and I have to agree that the delayed blowback design does seem to increase felt recoil of a 9mm or .40 S&W round. For me, holding the gun on target for rapid follow up shots are much easier with an M1 carbine.

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Mine has perked-along just fine with 147s. Currently going on 1000+ rounds.