Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Firearms & Knives - Other Brands Post Your Non-S&W Gun, Knife, and Blade Topics Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2020, 11:33 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default 2020 Python vs 686

I've asked this question in several threads over multiple forums, and I can't get a straight answer. I'll preface this by stating that I love my 1970 Colt Python and 1954 Colt 3-5-7 (the only Colts I own), and I also love ALL of my S&W revolvers (six so far). I only acquired the Colts as comparisons to my S&W revolvers, which are ALL .357 magnums. So with my interest in .357's, and this introduction of a new Python, I just have to know!

What give the 2020 Python at $1,499 MSRP the added value over a 686 at $833 MSRP? Is there actual parts and workmanship additional value, or is it just Colt taking in some extra bucks off of the Python name? Someone suggested that $1,499 compares reasonably with Performance Center .357's.

Thoughts? BTW, I'm buying a 4.25" 2020 Python regardless of whether or not it's worth it, when the price drops back down to MSRP, so I'm not being a **** about this.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:22 AM
ken158 ken158 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,316
Likes: 803
Liked 2,345 Times in 1,066 Posts
Default

Colt has had a tough go of it since the early 2000’s by losing government contracts, financial restructuring and low demand of it’s products. Something had to be done to renew interest and the re-invent of the Cobra, King Cobra and now Python is an effort to regain a place in the handgun market. Engineering, machinery and material is expensive and Colt has a reputation to live up to with the success of past products. A Python should be equal to a S&W PC gun and they are trying to prove that with their price point. S&W has lost the craftsmen, exhibited poor QC and the dreaded lock has cost them an unknown amount of customers. Revolvers are no longer accepted by law enforcement as the handgun market leans toward plastic autos. It is a tough business when you sell products one at a time instead of purchase orders for many. It is much more involved then a 686 verses a Python. Hopefully, the 2020 Python will live up to it’s name.
__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:23 AM
JayFramer's Avatar
JayFramer JayFramer is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,967
Likes: 6,201
Liked 7,602 Times in 2,373 Posts
Default

Check out my recent thread. I’ve had some issues with my 2020 Python.

To be totally honest at this point in time, I’d rather have a pre-lock great condition 686. My Python, as is, is not a combat ready firearm.

Time will tell if Colt can fix the problems as I REALLY want to love the gun.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:43 AM
dmthomp32's Avatar
dmthomp32 dmthomp32 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 544
Likes: 328
Liked 727 Times in 300 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
Check out my recent thread. Iíve had some issues with my 2020 Python.

To be totally honest at this point in time, Iíd rather have a pre-lock great condition 686. My Python, as is, is not a combat ready firearm.

Time will tell if Colt can fix the problems as I REALLY want to love the gun.
Interesting thread and something I brought up yesterday to a buddy at the LGS. As he stated they would receive a Python next week. While I love Colts, I have a small collection of five and a small collection of Smith revolvers (5). This is the exact question I have about the new Python. I bought a basically new in box 4" 686-4 two years ago with combat grips and box. Now I'm not saying that is a collectable item (these are both shooters in my opinion) but I don't consider the new Python to be collectible either. I just can't imagine the new Python offers enough in the performance department to warrant twice the cost. That's why for me I really have to handle one to see if the cost is worth it to consider it an upgrade. I may be surprised and incorrect and honestly that would be amazing!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:02 AM
THEmodelof1989 THEmodelof1989 is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 344
Likes: 433
Liked 650 Times in 200 Posts
Default

At this point, we should just change the name of the S&W forum to the Python forum.
__________________
Ban this man,
'89
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:09 AM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 325
Liked 769 Times in 400 Posts
Default

Over at one of the popular online dealers I see a 686 PC seven shooter with 5" ribbed barrel for $832. That kind of makes it a no-brainer decision for me. A prancing horse stamped on a gun doesn't make it $600 better.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:15 AM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

This is a good example of free market pricing and Colt has priced their new Python guided by the elevated prices of used Pythons. The difference is that the used old Python was available in limited numbers only, the new one is a regular production gun. Back in 1969 a Colt Pythons did cost as much in Germany as a Korth. Both had a lot of hand-fitting by skilled tradesmen and that justified the slightly higher price than a S&W 27-2 did cost, yet the cost was not twice of that.

Korth now uses CNC machinery and I personally do not see the prices for their Lollar manufactured guns as justified. I do not know if Colt is still using skilled labor to handfit the new Python action but doubt that skilled experts on the Python action can be trained and get the necessary skill and experience in such a short time. So my guess is, that Colt has improved machinery and with it make a product that is similiar in production effort and quality to the S&W 686 and Ruger GP100. Just as I consider Korth, Lollar revolvers overpriced, I also do not see the price of a new production Colt Python warranted when twice as high as a similiar product and Jay Framer's experience shows that quality control is not stellar.

Last edited by Andyd; 01-09-2020 at 04:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:35 AM
Laketime's Avatar
Laketime Laketime is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Likes: 1,980
Liked 2,356 Times in 1,082 Posts
Default

For me the Python has always been both a gun I wanted but passed on when the were affordable to get . I was attracted to the looks of the gun and feel of it in the hand.The one I shot was no more accurate for me than my model 27-2 that had a beautiful blued finish and a really nice action job done on it.Both my cousin who owned the Python and I preferred the trigger on the 27 which was like breaking a glass rod Compared to the Python stacking action.Shortly after owning his Python it seemed to go out of time a little and found out this can be common on this gun. This was reason enough for me not to spend the extra couple of hundred on one .Now it seems Colt themselves have publicly admitted this issue and has redesigned the Python correcting these issues and others making it a durable shooter.There is going to be a market for a lot of guys who lusted for one when they were affordable but passed due to the same reasons.But of course collectors and current owners will tell you that they have shot the bejesus out of several Pythons and never experienced a timing issue.There is talk on the Colt forum of hopes that Rick Grimes can do for the Python what Dirty Harry did for the 29.I truly hope Colt has learned a lesson and will no longer put their loyal fan base to the side if future government contract should arise.They just need to manage both like Smith & Wesson has always done with the Law Enforcement market.

Last edited by Laketime; 01-09-2020 at 09:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:43 AM
jay72's Avatar
jay72 jay72 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 164
Likes: 5
Liked 262 Times in 76 Posts
Default

I wonder if the new Python will effect the pricing on the old Python.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:57 AM
sodacan sodacan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 376
Liked 2,112 Times in 932 Posts
Default

Yada, yada, yada.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:19 AM
CH4's Avatar
CH4 CH4 is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada/Philippines
Posts: 3,803
Likes: 8,119
Liked 6,804 Times in 2,284 Posts
Default

I begrudgingly paid the MSRP of $1250 for my 2 5/8” 627.5 with the superfluous IL because I thought it looked cool. Similarly, using my twisted reasoning I can justify a Python sans lock for $1500.

The new Python may not quite have the same gene se qua as the original, but I think it’s a much more accurate representation than the current 27/627s is to the RM/27.
__________________
FBINA 213

Last edited by CH4; 01-09-2020 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:12 AM
UncleEd UncleEd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 2,133
Likes: 102
Liked 3,650 Times in 1,320 Posts
Default

Right now, the new Python really doesn't have
a track record. In reality it's "the new kid on
the block."

It's got a lot of proving to do. And at its price
point, even if it slips below the MSRP, will still
be a pricey decision over any Smith 686 new
or vintage used.
__________________
Ubi Est Mea
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:43 AM
hotshot357 hotshot357 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 166
Likes: 1,990
Liked 316 Times in 108 Posts
Default

I will take my 686 SSR any day. I've had a it worked on by a master smith and wouldn't trade it for a "train car full of Python's"!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:21 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken158 View Post
A Python should be equal to a S&W PC gun and they are trying to prove that with their price point.
Thanks for all the responses. I still do not have a PC revolver, but it's on the list. I do have a Pro Series but I realize it is not the same.

The Korth points were interesting - I haven't read much about them as they are priced way out of my range.

I found the "glass rod" comment interesting. I feel the same about my 1955 .357 (pre-27). As far as being overwhelmed with Python discussions on the forums - it's just a new release of a popular model and revolver enthusiasts are curious and some want enough info to make decisions. For S&W owners, I think this is the best place to get honest informed answers. Discussions are not at all the same on the Colt forums, nor would I expect them to be.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:35 PM
Lou_the_welder's Avatar
Lou_the_welder Lou_the_welder is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles,California
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 2,180
Liked 1,866 Times in 696 Posts
Default

I dont imagine a 6" python will shoot much better than a 6" gp100!

2020 Python vs 6862020 Python vs 6862020 Python vs 686
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 01-09-2020, 04:33 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 363
Liked 810 Times in 446 Posts
Default

I have a 6" 686-4 and a 6" Ruger GP100. When it came time to mount a scope on one of them for silhouette competition, I chose the GP100. The GP is more accurate than the 686 with every load iI have tried. Only high velocity loads with heavy bullets brings the 686 close to the GP. As far as I know, the GP has a higher rate of twist than the 686. That would account for the accuracy difference. The original Python also has a higher rate of twist than the M28 and was more accurate, according to Jerry Miculek; although he chose the M28 because of the better DA trigger action. If this pattern is true, and the new Python has a good DA action, I predict huge sales for it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 01-09-2020, 04:33 PM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
I dont imagine a 6" python will shoot much better than a 6" gp100!

2020 Python vs 6862020 Python vs 6862020 Python vs 686
Does that even matter? I spend a lot of time at gun ranges and barely ever find other shooters putting their targets out to 25 yards. The average guy blasts a B-27 at 15 feet and is happy with a two foot group, only on the internet does everybody shoot a two inch groups at that distance.

All that average Joe wants is a cool gun and it has to be cool looking.

Last edited by Andyd; 01-09-2020 at 04:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 01-09-2020, 05:02 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
Does that even matter? I spend a lot of time at gun ranges and barely ever find other shooters putting their targets out to 25 yards. The average guy blasts a B-27 at 15 feet and is happy with a two foot group, only on the internet does everybody shoot a two inch groups at that distance.

All that average Joe wants is a cool gun and it has to be cool looking.
That's no exaggeration - rapid fire at 15' at my range, generally with poor groupings. I feel like a show-off moving my target out to 50'. On the other hand, 15' shooting quickly DA is real-life.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:19 PM
Pig Hunter Pig Hunter is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 490
Likes: 794
Liked 357 Times in 184 Posts
Default

I haven't handled a new Python. I have shot an old one quite a bit. When the 586 came out I thought it felt like a barrel heavy Python wanna be. Those days most of my shooting was single action so I can't comment on the DA pulls on either. The Python I shot had the snot shot out of it by a lot of people with no ill effects. The same time frame (late '70's) I got tp shoot a 5" 27 with factory grips. If I was given a choice for free, I'd take the Python. An L frame without the full lug I could get interested in. A 3.5" 27 with the right grips is on my list. The only 6" gun I have ever liked in any caliber was the Python. YMMV
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:28 PM
ruger 22 ruger 22 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 203
Likes: 91
Liked 240 Times in 125 Posts
Default

My brother has a Python from 1972---nice gun, but I prefer the 686 non-lock my son has over it by a wide margin. Accuracy is about the same, the 686 feels better to me and the action is a whole lot smoother. But then i am a shooter, not a collector.
I have trouble trying to understand the premium of the Python.

Last edited by ruger 22; 01-09-2020 at 07:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:31 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 4,639
Likes: 4,973
Liked 5,775 Times in 2,125 Posts
Default

The old Python had a tapered bore something like .001-.002 forcing cone to muzzle. Colt tooted this as having a better grip/seal on the bullet. They also pushed a "mystery metal" ball down each barrel bore to burnish it and smooth it. That said all the old Colt craftsmen are gone. Nobody or nearly nobody out in the real world can work on the old ones. That said I like the new one. Don't know if I'll ever afford one. I have an old one from 1980 from the custom shop. Mine was $468.00(NIB).........But that was 40 years ago.
__________________
S&W Accumulator
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:34 PM
joe44va's Avatar
joe44va joe44va is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Central VA
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 2,933
Liked 3,307 Times in 1,186 Posts
Default

Over the years my group sizes at whatever distance have increased. I kind of doubt that a Python would improve them, however pretty it is. The only thing that has is a red dot. I also shoot my Smith revolvers better than any of my plastic fantastics and I believe I like that bias. You all have a good time with the Python.
__________________
Trying doesn't count.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:56 AM
vipermd's Avatar
vipermd vipermd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: U.P. Mi
Posts: 1,799
Likes: 7,058
Liked 944 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Well to me it is a moot point, since colt decided in September 2019 to no longer sell AR's to civilians, I refuse to purchase or sell any colt products. In the 1990's, when S&W came out with their dealer requirements- no mags over 10 rds, no more than 1 gun per day, no AK, AR, HK, I refused and stopped being a "certified" S&W dealer. It was difficult due to being raised on S&W's. When they abandoned the nonsense, and were back in US hands I was back to selling S&W, though I never stopped using personal S&W's. Be Safe,
__________________
NO PEACE NO JUSTICE
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:41 AM
Telecaster Telecaster is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 915
Likes: 229
Liked 1,318 Times in 496 Posts
Default

The price difference between the Python and S&W is only money. If you have the extra funds, just buy it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:49 AM
03hemi's Avatar
03hemi 03hemi is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 2,441
Liked 2,421 Times in 863 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THEmodelof1989 View Post
At this point, we should just change the name of the S&W forum to the Python forum.
lol, In reality though, what S&W collector doesn't have a plethora of other fine pistols too.
__________________
Plastic's for toys - J. Cooper
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:07 AM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
... On the other hand, 15' shooting quickly DA is real-life.
The Fort Worth church shooting painted another picture and debunked this internet lore, which serves as an all to common excuse for poor shooting.

The Python dominated the U.S. bullseye scene back in the day and there was a simple reason for it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:09 AM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 4,639
Likes: 4,973
Liked 5,775 Times in 2,125 Posts
Default

IF.......SMITH REALLY WANTED TO TORQUE THEIR SHORTS........They could take a 686. Mill the barrel rib thinner. Then ventilate it and you'd basically have the same look for lots less $$$$.
__________________
S&W Accumulator
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:32 AM
Telecaster Telecaster is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 915
Likes: 229
Liked 1,318 Times in 496 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter View Post
IF.......SMITH REALLY WANTED TO TORQUE THEIR SHORTS........They could take a 686. Mill the barrel rib thinner. Then ventilate it and you'd basically have the same look for lots less $$$$.
Like Rossi did?

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:58 AM
OLDSTER's Avatar
OLDSTER OLDSTER is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 7,393
Likes: 8,459
Liked 6,279 Times in 1,848 Posts
Default

For the price of the new Python, I can buy two more of these.


__________________
John
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:04 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDSTER View Post
For the price of the new Python, I can buy two more of these.
It's hard not to think that way. It's why my clothing doesn't last long and I often drink the happy hour PBR instead of the craft stout I'm lusting after. But I don't use the same logic when choosing firearms.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:29 PM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
It's hard not to think that way. It's why my clothing doesn't last long and I often drink the happy hour PBR instead of the craft stout I'm lusting after. But I don't use the same logic when choosing firearms.
Or $1,500 would pretty much buy the components for 10,000 rounds or buy you 5,000 rounds of quality .357 Magnum ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:35 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 3,190
Liked 5,001 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermd View Post
Well to me it is a moot point, since colt decided in September 2019 to no longer sell AR's to civilians...
Colt hasn't decided to stop selling ARs to civilians; they've temporarily stopped shipping them to:

1) Concentrate their resources on fulfilling a major M4 contract for a foreign government.

2) Allow the glut of ARs on the U.S. market, to include a sales quarter's worth of their own product that are moving through the pipeline, to move so that market demand can increase again.
__________________
Pickpocket
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 01-10-2020, 05:41 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 3,190
Liked 5,001 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
The Fort Worth church shooting painted another picture and debunked this internet lore, which serves as an all to common excuse for poor shooting.
Outliers don't debunk statistical averages; they do remind us that only preparing for the likeliest events is a gamble, albeit one of the safer ones.

Quote:
The Python dominated the U.S. bullseye scene back in the day and there was a simple reason for it.
So the Sig P229 is a bullseye gun?
__________________
Pickpocket
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:09 PM
woodsltc's Avatar
woodsltc woodsltc is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 3,602
Likes: 3,496
Liked 4,171 Times in 1,552 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
What give the 2020 Python at $1,499 MSRP the added value over a 686 at $833 MSRP? Is there actual parts and workmanship additional value, or is it just Colt taking in some extra bucks off of the Python name? Someone suggested that $1,499 compares reasonably with Performance Center .357's.
JMO.....but it seems a bit early to get any accurate feel on how the two compare.

Until an unbiased someone obtains a "new" python and does a detailed comparison, how can the OP's question be reasonably answered.

Don
__________________
Laus Deo! <><
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:35 PM
Telecaster Telecaster is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 915
Likes: 229
Liked 1,318 Times in 496 Posts
Default

The more I think about it, if the new Python turns out to be robust and high quality, I wouldn’t mind having one just for fun.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #36  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:37 PM
w.r.gun w.r.gun is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: new york
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 1 Post
Default

If it looks at all like a new Cobra it should be priced like a new Charter Arms,.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:08 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsltc View Post
JMO.....but it seems a bit early to get any accurate feel on how the two compare.

Until an unbiased someone obtains a "new" python and does a detailed comparison, how can the OP's question be reasonably answered.

Don
I would think that before anyone paid what these are going for, that they would be asking such questions. But perhaps purchasers are just assuming that Colt is altruistic and will add some additional quality and workmanship to go with the added value of the old Python name.

But I do look forward to detailed reports from those who already own both.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:23 PM
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 21,623
Likes: 29,019
Liked 25,942 Times in 9,435 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDSTER View Post
For the price of the new Python, I can buy two more of these.



You can buy 15 Hi Points
__________________
Pardon me if I ignore you.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:37 PM
vipermd's Avatar
vipermd vipermd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: U.P. Mi
Posts: 1,799
Likes: 7,058
Liked 944 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Colt hasn't decided to stop selling ARs to civilians; they've temporarily stopped shipping them to:
1) Concentrate their resources on fulfilling a major M4 contract for a foreign government.
2) Allow the glut of ARs on the U.S. market, to include a sales quarter's worth of their own product that are moving through the pipeline, to move so that market demand can increase again.
Well maybe I did not understand what was said in this interview: Colt will stop making AR-15 rifles for consumers - CNN Video

Unfortunately this video has been clipped and no longer has the Colt employee statement. I searched but could not find the complete interview from 9/2019. Sorry
Be Safe,
__________________
NO PEACE NO JUSTICE

Last edited by vipermd; 01-10-2020 at 10:45 PM. Reason: additional info
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:49 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 3,190
Liked 5,001 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermd View Post
Well maybe I did not understand what was said in this interview: Colt will stop making AR-15 rifles for consumers - CNN Video

Be Safe,
EDIT: Just saw the edit above.

Try these more detailed pieces from GunsAmerica and Motley Fool: Breaking: Colt Responds to Concerns Over Its Decision to Halt Production of Rifles for Consumer Market - GunsAmerica Digest

The Reason Colt Is Suspending AR-15 Production Is Not What You Think | The Motley Fool

I'd like to think a dealer would make a point of being informed about what they sell and the company that makes it...
__________________
Pickpocket

Last edited by Hapworth; 01-10-2020 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:46 AM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Outliers don't debunk statistical averages; they do remind us that only preparing for the likeliest events is a gamble, albeit one of the safer ones.

So the Sig P229 is a bullseye gun?
Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #42  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:35 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 3,190
Liked 5,001 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.
We all gamble every day.

Otherwise, I agree with you here.

My original point was that the "15'" assertion regarding civilian self-defense shooting is not "internet lore", nor does the Fort Worth church shooting "debunk" it, nor is a bullseye pistol or bullseye skills required for it.

But I'm all for increasing all skill sets across a variety or conditions...
__________________
Pickpocket
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #43  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:37 PM
runscott's Avatar
runscott runscott is offline
SWCA Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PacNW
Posts: 373
Likes: 72
Liked 546 Times in 186 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.
I often wonder what a "good shot" is. I see really tight groups posted by you all from 25 yards. When I go to the range I shoot at least a couple of cylinders of DA .357 at 25', fairly fast, and usually get all in the black. That's my self-protection practice. The rest of the time is spent shooting more slowly at a 50' target, also .357 or .38 DA. I am still at the point where I would not be very useful if it came to 50', but it's improving. I use the targets like what you get with the old Colts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:43 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,906
Likes: 1,655
Liked 6,888 Times in 2,324 Posts
Default

I would choose the 686-5 Mountain gun
Lifetime warranty vs 1 year warranty.
7 shots vs 6
686 MG is Lighter than Mod 66
Python weighs same as 5" Mod 629 classic.
SW will still be making revolvers in 5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:28 PM
ladder13's Avatar
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 21,623
Likes: 29,019
Liked 25,942 Times in 9,435 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
Like Rossi did?

Donít think a GP100 will shoot any better.
__________________
Pardon me if I ignore you.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-12-2020, 02:37 AM
BigBill's Avatar
BigBill BigBill is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: north america
Posts: 12,282
Likes: 1,660
Liked 11,266 Times in 4,697 Posts
Default

My ‘75 colt python 357/6” could ping small rocks on the 100 yd berm. I could make pin point shots at 100 yds. I was with my wife’s bil he’s a Leo and was in shock. All six shots hit the rock. With my 140 gr reloads. This gun always shot high at 25 yds. It was new never sighted in. I figured for ha’s ha’s I’d take it out to 100 yds. I regret selling it to start a business.

Colt does claim a 200+ yard range,

Colt Python - Wikipedia

The gun manufacturers use different grades of steel. I ran some 125 gr jhp hot loads around 1600 FPS and my python ate them. I wonder what grades of steel colt, ruger and s&w are using?

Last edited by BigBill; 01-12-2020 at 02:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:23 AM
Andyd's Avatar
Andyd Andyd is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 1,318
Liked 2,359 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
I often wonder what a "good shot" is. I see really tight groups posted by you all from 25 yards. When I go to the range I shoot at least a couple of cylinders of DA .357 at 25', fairly fast, and usually get all in the black. That's my self-protection practice. The rest of the time is spent shooting more slowly at a 50' target, also .357 or .38 DA. I am still at the point where I would not be very useful if it came to 50', but it's improving. I use the targets like what you get with the old Colts.
I started target shooting after the military and we shot at 25 meters at ISSF targets with one-on-one coaching. The ten ring is two inches and the nine ring is four inches.
Shooters that can reliably shoot above a 9-ring average were rare and are not getting more plentiful. Those that could shoot above 85% were the guys that I met at the matches. In the last year I have seen about half a dozen shooters bringing handgun targets out to 25 yards - and I go shooting several times a week, following a training plan for accuracy and speed, as well.

Had the internet existed in my competing days, I would have been devastated and discouraged by all the 25 yard 2 inch groups, shot rapid fire at 25 yards, with a snubnosed .22 WMR with fixed sights and in complete darkness, with just a flashlight as the only source of illumination in the weak hand .
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #48  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:55 AM
dmthomp32's Avatar
dmthomp32 dmthomp32 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 544
Likes: 328
Liked 727 Times in 300 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
I started target shooting after the military and we shot at 25 meters at ISSF targets with one-on-one coaching. The ten ring is two inches and the nine ring is four inches.

Shooters that can reliably shoot above a 9-ring average were rare and are not getting more plentiful. Those that could shoot above 85% were the guys that I met at the matches. In the last year I have seen about half a dozen shooters bringing handgun targets out to 25 yards - and I go shooting several times a week, following a training plan for accuracy and speed, as well.



Had the internet existed in my competing days, I would have been devastated and discouraged by all the 25 yard 2 inch groups, shot rapid fire at 25 yards, with a snubnosed .22 WMR with fixed sights and in complete darkness, with just a flashlight as the only source of illumination in the weak hand .
That's priceless. I'm sure that is likely true. I try to shoot every two weeks, knowing full well it isn't enough. Every time I go, I'm shocked but what I see. One out of 15, might shoot better than me and I am not a bullseye shooter or competition shooter, my indoor groups at 25 yards are in the 5-7" range depending upon what I shoot. Last week when I was at the range I was shooting alongside a police officer (plain clothes but full utility belt/holster on his side). He was laying down shooting prone at 25 yards and he was shooting easily 12-14" groups on a silhouette target. I'm not sure if it's easier or more difficult shooting prone but he made my DW Guardian and I feel good!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:11 AM
4506517's Avatar
4506517 4506517 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 2,493
Liked 2,741 Times in 925 Posts
Default

Anyone checked the price on a new HK SP5?

Its going REGULARLY for almost double MSRP.

Why? Because it hasn't been available for a long time.

Colt is asking and people are paying.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You guys can debate hand fitting, craftsmanship, blah blah blah, it isn't worth it all day long (and apparently do).

If Colt asks for it, people pay it, that's called capitalism.

??????
__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:27 AM
Chukar60's Avatar
Chukar60 Chukar60 is offline
Member
2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686 2020 Python vs 686  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 539
Liked 1,789 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Meh
Another bottle of snake oil.
Production grade revolver with pricing placed strategically between a commodity product and a custom gun. Colt is praying nostalgia and hype will cover the margin.
Thus far the strategy appears to be working.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2020 Colt Python shocker Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 183 Yesterday 01:50 PM
New Colt Python for January 2020? The Norseman Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 127 01-19-2020 09:49 PM
'89 version 627 or 2020 Python? Just another 22 shooter Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 21 01-11-2020 01:05 AM
2020 Python VR code - yes or no? Tom K Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 47 01-07-2020 09:04 PM
2020 Python? wood714 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 3 01-02-2020 12:52 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)