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Old 03-06-2020, 10:40 PM
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Is the 22LR Walther PPK/S made in stainless? If so is it the same price as the blued 22LR PPK/S? Any experience with the current 22LR Walther PPK/S? Thank you!
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:58 PM
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No, it's nickel-plated, and it typically costs a bit more than the black model. The Walther PPK/S .22 isn't made of steel at all, (save for the barrel and slide inserts) it's made of some proprietary alloy. Supposedly it's some sort of aluminum alloy, but thanks to a mistranslation on Walther USA's website, (which has since been corrected) people think that it's made of ZAMAK and bad-mouth it endlessly because "ewww potmetal". On the bright side, this has driven the cost down dramatically, so they can be had for a couple hundred dollars, even less if it's used.

That being said, I actually own one, and like most folks who do, I love it. It's a fun gun to take out plinking with a distinctive, iconic look.
The only kncks against it are the absurdly heavy 17.5lb DA Trigger and the so-called "blue" finish is actually matte black. Oh, and like most .22 Pistols, it can be ammo sensitive and prefers High Velocity plated ammo such as CCI Mini Mag.
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Old 03-06-2020, 11:19 PM
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I've had a PPK/S .22 for a long time. I'm no Walther authority, but I always thought it was made of steel. It doesn't feel like pot metal; it has the heft of an all steel gun like the PPK/S .380s I had along the way.
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:43 AM
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I have one. Trigger pull was over 18 lbs!
Gun Smith got it down to 12.5 Lbs.
Don't even shoot it......
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Old 03-07-2020, 01:08 AM
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The current 22 LR PPk/s pistols are a great value and are well made.

The only reason I bought the nickel finish version is that the first suppressor I ever built is bare aluminium and I wanted a match



I probably have less than 1,000 rounds through mine even thought I bought it several years ago. So far mine has not been ammo sensitive and has had many more American Eagle subsonics through it than anything, but it has had no issue with the bulk packed Remingtons that I usually shoot

I happen to like it so much that I plan on getting a second one in blue
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Old 03-07-2020, 02:33 AM
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I had a 22 LR Manuhrin PPK/s that was imported by Interarms in the mid 1980's that was all steel. another one of the guns I should have kept

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Old 03-07-2020, 07:27 AM
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I collect Walthers. I like the PPK best. I have a TPH in .22lr. I did not buy the PPK/S size .22lr because I have too many guns that shoot .22lr already. I looked at one of them, and it is not stainless like the other models in stainless are. In addition, I much prefer the PPK over the PPK/S. I have both in stainless .380. Someday I may buy the PPK/S .22lr just to make my collection more complete.

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Old 03-07-2020, 10:21 AM
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Bought one of the current models.
Second the Motion on Really Heavy Trigger!
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Old 03-07-2020, 10:26 AM
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I have one, definitely not steel frame or slide. It was on sale locally for $249.95. Not a single malfunction so far, all CCI Minimags. Yes, the trigger is very heavy in DA mode, SA is decent. Mine is very accurate.
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I've had a PPK/S .22 for a long time. I'm no Walther authority, but I always thought it was made of steel. It doesn't feel like pot metal; it has the heft of an all steel gun like the PPK/S .380s I had along the way.
He's asking about current production models. (2013 - Present)

Older models are mostly made of steel, save for the PPK/L variant which has a Duraluminum frame.

Current production models are made of some proprietary mystery alloy which Walther won't share because it's a trade secret, but they say that it's nothing like ZAMAK and is "much stronger" than any zinc alloy.
I surmise that it's likely the same aluminum alloy they use for all of their other rimfire replicas.

Current models weigh just slightly less than the all steel models, which is achieved by completely filling in the frame. If you take the grips off or look into the mag well, you'll see that inside the grip frame is essentially just a block of metal with the a narrow space for the magazine.


Walther did this intentionally because they wanted to match the weight/feel of the centerfire models, but personally I think that they would have been better off just making the frame share more or less the same internal dimensions as the centerfire models and marketed the light weight as a feature.
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
He's asking about current production models. (2013 - Present)

Older models are mostly made of steel, save for the PPK/L variant which has a Duraluminum frame.

Current production models are made of some proprietary mystery alloy which Walther won't share because it's a trade secret, but they say that it's nothing like ZAMAK and is "much stronger" than any zinc alloy.
I surmise that it's likely the same aluminum alloy they use for all of their other rimfire replicas.

Current models weigh just slightly less than the all steel models, which is achieved by completely filling in the frame. If you take the grips off or look into the mag well, you'll see that inside the grip frame is essentially just a block of metal with the a narrow space for the magazine.


Walther did this intentionally because they wanted to match the weight/feel of the centerfire models, but personally I think that they would have been better off just making the frame share more or less the same internal dimensions as the centerfire models and marketed the light weight as a feature.
Okay, I guess I have an all steel gun then. I bought mine used in '96.
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Old 03-08-2020, 02:05 AM
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I also have one of the late production PPK/S .22s. I like it! Fine little gun and very accurate.
Yeah, the DA trigger is terrible. But then most folks only fire the first shot DA. Everything after that is SA, which is fine. The folks over on the Walther board assure me that given time and use, the DA trigger pull will smooth out considerably. I'm still waiting to find out as I don't shoot it much DA.
Mine also likes high velocity ammo. The darn thing just absolutely loves cheap old Remington Thunderbolts.
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Old 03-08-2020, 02:18 AM
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I have a West German PP in .22; I might have to buy one of the new PPK/S guns in .22 to keep it company. Academy has them on sale around the corner from me. How can you beat a .22 Walther for less than $300.00?
Bob

Here's my W German Walther PP. It would be fun to partner up the PPK/S and PP.

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Old 03-08-2020, 12:45 PM
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I also have one of the late production PPK/S .22s. I like it! Fine little gun and very accurate.
Yeah, the DA trigger is terrible. But then most folks only fire the first shot DA. Everything after that is SA, which is fine. The folks over on the Walther board assure me that given time and use, the DA trigger pull will smooth out considerably. I'm still waiting to find out as I don't shoot it much DA.
Mine also likes high velocity ammo. The darn thing just absolutely loves cheap old Remington Thunderbolts.
I like conventional double-action guns because of the convenience of safely having a cartridge chambered all the time. It's good to familiarize oneself with the double-action mode in preparation for a time when it might be fired in such a manner. Other than that, I always shoot these guns single-action.
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Old 03-08-2020, 01:30 PM
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I have a West German PP in .22; I might have to buy one of the new PPK/S guns in .22 to keep it company. Academy has them on sale around the corner from me. How can you beat a .22 Walther for less than $300.00?
Bob

Here's my W German Walther PP. It would be fun to partner up the PPK/S and PP.
Frankly, you can't. Just about the only good thing about Walther USA messing up the translation on their website is that it helped to drive down the cost considerably. When the PPK/S .22 first came out in 2013 they were going for as much as $475, but as soon as folks read on the US Website that they were made of ZAMAK and the elitists were happy for any tangible excuse to bash newer models so they ran with it, prices slowly went into decline.
Obviously they're still selling well enough to remain in production and apparently Walther is still profiting on them, so it's a win-win for everyone.

That being said, don't expect the same lustrous blued finish to be on the PPK/S .22, it has a matte black finish which really isn't very attractive.

Oh, one other bit of overstated nonsense which I forgot to mention. The haters love to claim that the PPK/S .22 is made by Umarex rather than Walther, which is a half-truth. You see, Walther has been a subsidiary of Umarex since 1993, so sometimes they share facilities. The Walther PPK/S .22 is manufactured within the Umarex plant in Arnesberg rather than Walther HQ in Ulm, but it is still made by Walther employees, they're simply working out of the Umarex plant because unlike Walther HQ, Umarex is already setup for the production of Rimfire pistols whereas Walther HQ specializes in the production of centerfire pistols for Self-Defense/Duty.
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:16 PM
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Do a search, I've posted on this a few times before.

Short story:

1) It doesn't have the heirloom potential of the original Walther pistols;

2) It's a pistol people love to hate, due to the use of Zamak alloy in the frame and slide - but most of those haters don't actually own one; and

3) Mine shoots just as well as my Walther PP in .22 LR, with the advantage of a much better magazine design, and much more available magazines at inexpensive prices.
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Old 03-08-2020, 09:24 PM
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Searches can be misleading though, like how you found the misinformation regarding the composition of the alloy used in the frame/slide.

I actually corresponded with Walther Germany via e-mail to get my information.

Granted that I once held aspirations of a career in investigative journalism, so I tend to go the extra mile when it comes to getting facts straight, but it just goes to show you that you can't trust everything you read on the internet, because a Google Search is just as likely to spread rampant misinformation than provide accurate information.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
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Searches can be misleading though, like how you found the misinformation regarding the composition of the alloy used in the frame/slide.

I actually corresponded with Walther Germany via e-mail to get my information.

Granted that I once held aspirations of a career in investigative journalism, so I tend to go the extra mile when it comes to getting facts straight, but it just goes to show you that you can't trust everything you read on the internet, because a Google Search is just as likely to spread rampant misinformation than provide accurate information.
There are a half dozen or so Zamak alloys and a couple of them are common in firearms manufacture. What sets them apart from other "pot metal" zinc alloys is the purity of the alloy. It's the impurities in common zinc "pot metal" alloys that cause the cracks and dimensional instability over time. The use of lower grade zinc alloys in trigger guards etc, in lower end firearms in the 50s and 60s is where zinc alloys got such a bad reputation in the firearms industry.

However the Ithaca Model 72 used a Zamak alloy receiver (with a receiver cover over it) and the design has held up well for over 40 years. The current Henry .22 LR lever action is a derivative of it and also uses a high purity Zamak alloy.

The irony is that the Zamak alloy Henry has legions of fans who swear by them while many of those same folks will swear at the Umarex-Walther PPK/S .22 LR for using the same alloy. The Umarex Walther Colt M4 .22 LR rifles attract the same hate due to the use of Zamak alloy in the bolt carrier, even though it is a very sound and appropriate use of the alloy.

I can see why Umarex-Walther does not want to indicate what alloy is being used as zinc alloys in general are not viewed fondly. But whether they want to call it a Zamak alloy or not - whatever they want to call it, or refuse to call it, it's still a high purity zinc alloy.

I have no objection to it, as it is again a good use of the material, but you seem to be touchy about it.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:45 AM
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What Dirty Harry Callahan said in his first post! I agree!

But my Walther P-22s are better shooters.





But they are all fun!!!!
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:20 AM
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There are a half dozen or so Zamak alloys and a couple of them are common in firearms manufacture. What sets them apart from other "pot metal" zinc alloys is the purity of the alloy. It's the impurities in common zinc "pot metal" alloys that cause the cracks and dimensional instability over time. The use of lower grade zinc alloys in trigger guards etc, in lower end firearms in the 50s and 60s is where zinc alloys got such a bad reputation in the firearms industry.

However the Ithaca Model 72 used a Zamak alloy receiver (with a receiver cover over it) and the design has held up well for over 40 years. The current Henry .22 LR lever action is a derivative of it and also uses a high purity Zamak alloy.

The irony is that the Zamak alloy Henry has legions of fans who swear by them while many of those same folks will swear at the Umarex-Walther PPK/S .22 LR for using the same alloy. The Umarex Walther Colt M4 .22 LR rifles attract the same hate due to the use of Zamak alloy in the bolt carrier, even though it is a very sound and appropriate use of the alloy.

I can see why Umarex-Walther does not want to indicate what alloy is being used as zinc alloys in general are not viewed fondly. But whether they want to call it a Zamak alloy or not - whatever they want to call it, or refuse to call it, it's still a high purity zinc alloy.

I have no objection to it, as it is again a good use of the material, but you seem to be touchy about it.
Actually, I have no problem with ZAMAK and I agree with your assessment of the alloy based on available facts. It is indeed a pure alloy which is available in a wide array of configurations/compositions, each tailored to specific uses, and is an industry standard alloy which is presently used in many .22 Rimfire firearms, to which it is easily suitable.

However, I believe that Walther is telling the truth and that the PPK/S .22 is made of an Aluminum alloy due to the weight of the pistol. Allow me to explain, ZAMAK isn't a particularly lightweight alloy, it has a bit more heft to it. The PPK/S .22 weighs in at about 20oz unloaded, which is roughly 3oz less than the all-steel centerfire models, despite the fact that they had to completely fill in the grip in order to make it that heavy.
For the sake of comparison, take a look at the Phoenix Arms HP22, which is considerably smaller than the PPK/S .22, yet somehow weighs the same amount at 20oz, and is admittedly constructed from ZAMAK.





So as you can see, the Phoenix Arms HP22 is a little bit bigger than a Kel-Tec P32, whereas the PPK/S is obviously much larger and thicker than that.



And here's a pic showing the PPK/S side by side with a Ruger LCP, which is a little bit bigger than a Kel-Tec P32.

So yeah, I'm inclined to take Walther's word that the PPK/S .22 isn't made of ZAMAK or any other such zinc alloy. Besides, I'm pretty sure that they could get into trouble for misrepresenting their products if they blatantly lie about what alloy they're made out of.
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:28 PM
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The post 2013 ones get good reviews on the Walther forum as shooters. I would shoot one SA, for accuracy's sake. That's how I shoot my PPKs. Haven't seen any accuracy tests, but would like to, from an academic standpoint. Got too many .22 autos already, don't need another.

I had a P22 Walther/S&W and the accuracy was not there. I got it because of the threaded barrel, but with a suppressor on, I couldn't see the sights. Not a jam I can remember, but for me, even with the barrel extension it wasn't accurate enough to be handy.

Put me off on Walther rimfires for a while. I'm glad the newer ones seem to be an improvement.
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:09 PM
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The post 2013 ones get good reviews on the Walther forum as shooters. I would shoot one SA, for accuracy's sake. That's how I shoot my PPKs. Haven't seen any accuracy tests, but would like to, from an academic standpoint. Got too many .22 autos already, don't need another.

I had a P22 Walther/S&W and the accuracy was not there. I got it because of the threaded barrel, but with a suppressor on, I couldn't see the sights. Not a jam I can remember, but for me, even with the barrel extension it wasn't accurate enough to be handy.

Put me off on Walther rimfires for a while. I'm glad the newer ones seem to be an improvement.
I second the P22 Walther /S&W as being inaccurate. I bought one new, probably not long after they came out. Easily the most inaccurate handgun I've ever owned and I've had quite a few in the last fifty years.
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Old 03-09-2020, 08:19 PM
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The post 2013 ones get good reviews on the Walther forum as shooters. I would shoot one SA, for accuracy's sake. That's how I shoot my PPKs. Haven't seen any accuracy tests, but would like to, from an academic standpoint. Got too many .22 autos already, don't need another.

I had a P22 Walther/S&W and the accuracy was not there. I got it because of the threaded barrel, but with a suppressor on, I couldn't see the sights. Not a jam I can remember, but for me, even with the barrel extension it wasn't accurate enough to be handy.

Put me off on Walther rimfires for a while. I'm glad the newer ones seem to be an improvement.
It's nice to hear that the Walther Forums are more friendly/welcoming to the PPK/S .22 nowadays. I actually used to be a regular there, but I left because I didn't own a vintage PPK, and I honestly couldn't make a single positive post regarding my current production PPK/S without receiving at least 3 negative replies reminding me that they were infinitely inferior to their vintage PPK.

Yeah, the PPK/S .22 comes with multiple different sights, some of which are extremely tall. Now I know what they're for.
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:49 PM
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The S&W PP pistols got a bad rep and had a recall in 2009, and from what I read, had terrible customer service. However, some owners of ones after the recall seemed to like them and report them to be accurate. But among pre-Smith owners, they left a bad taste. Plus, they lengthened the tang which, while it helped with those who got slide bite, changed the profile, which "traditionalists" never got over. I have never seen a S&W PPK and only know what I've read about them.

I don't have a legacy PPK, but have a 1968 .32 made in W Germany, (Just beat the GCA) and it's a well-made pistol. I won't say it's better made than the Interarms were, but a lot of people will. Mine is showing its age.

The others are in .380, an Interarms Ranger PPK/S from 1981, an early one, and a SS PPK from later. I've never had a failure with any of them...shoot only hardball. I've never been bitten by the slide.

If I had a PPK that was reliable, I wouldn't worry about where it was made. The new ones have drawn a lot of praise for fit, finish and reliability but have only been out since Dec or Jan, so long term usage data aren't there. Some have reported some sharpness of the frame near the tang, which has caused some discomfort after extended shooting.


Many PPK owners in general find the .380s a little too sharp in recoil and almost universally prefer the .32.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:12 AM
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Well if we're gonna start comparing all the PP Series, I happen to be extremely fond of them.
As a side note: The Umarex PPK/S .22 comes with a threaded barrel. Get a $20 thread adapter and you can screw your favorite .22 suppressor right on.
I also own on of the S&W made PPK/S-1s in the scarce .32acp caliber. I sent it to Walther Arms in Arkansas for the recall and they had it back in just 8 days. Great gun! Very accurate and has never given me any problems at all.



Top row: 380s
Middle row: .32acp
Bottom row: .22LR
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
The S&W PP pistols got a bad rep and had a recall in 2009, and from what I read, had terrible customer service. However, some owners of ones after the recall seemed to like them and report them to be accurate. But among pre-Smith owners, they left a bad taste. Plus, they lengthened the tang which, while it helped with those who got slide bite, changed the profile, which "traditionalists" never got over. I have never seen a S&W PPK and only know what I've read about them.

I don't have a legacy PPK, but have a 1968 .32 made in W Germany, (Just beat the GCA) and it's a well-made pistol. I won't say it's better made than the Interarms were, but a lot of people will. Mine is showing its age.

The others are in .380, an Interarms Ranger PPK/S from 1981, an early one, and a SS PPK from later. I've never had a failure with any of them...shoot only hardball. I've never been bitten by the slide.

If I had a PPK that was reliable, I wouldn't worry about where it was made. The new ones have drawn a lot of praise for fit, finish and reliability but have only been out since Dec or Jan, so long term usage data aren't there. Some have reported some sharpness of the frame near the tang, which has caused some discomfort after extended shooting.


Many PPK owners in general find the .380s a little too sharp in recoil and almost universally prefer the .32.
There are some uncomfortable realities most of the folks over on the Walther Forum don't like to admit.

Yes, the pre-war PP / PPK series pistols are hand fitted and exceptionally well made.

Post war, with restrictions in small arms manufacture in place, Walther moved production across the Rhine to the Manurhin located in Haut-Rin in the Alsace region of France, where the population was still ethnically German.

Walther then sent forgings to Manurhin, which then machined the forgings, finished and assembled the pistols. This arrangement continued until 1982. In essence, it was French Germans doing the machining and assembly rather than German Germans.

Once the restrictions on small arms production were lifted in the 1950s, Manurhin started shipping finished frames and milled but still unheat treated, unroll marked and unfinished slides to Walther. Walther then heat treated them using an induction coil method, roll marked and finished the slides, and performed the final inspection of the assembled pistol. That was enough under German law for it to be considered "made in West Germany".

The irony is that if you look at them objectively, the Manurhin are better made. They are just as well fitted and the bluing on the slide and frame matches, which is not always the case with a Walther made PP or PPK of that era. The die hards at the Walther forum don't like to hear that, or admit it.

In 1982 when Walther discontinued it's arrangement with Manurhin, and took back full production, most unbiased reviewers agree that quality suffered while Walther figured out how to make them again. The die hards at the Walther forum don't like to hear that, or admit it either.

The discontinuation of the arrangement between Walther and Manurhin is what led to the license agreement with Ranger, driven by Interarms seeking to secure a source of PPK pistols as well as a continued source of PPK/S pistols.

I own a pair of Ranger made PPK/S Pistols and the quality is fine and I have found them to be just as accurate and reliable as their Walther or Manurhin made counterparts. The stainless versions lack the high polish of the blued Manurhin pistols, but then again they are intentionally bead blasted on the upper surface of the slide for glare reduction and that's arguably more practical. And they could be had in stainless steel, which is much more practical for daily IWB carry.

I also owned a S&W made PPK/S. "Owned" is the key word here. I did not like the extended tang at all. I've only been bitten by a PP series pistol once and that was the first time I shot one when, in my ignorance, I tried to use a high grip on it. I reverted to a normal grip and have never been bit since. Thus I saw no benefit to the extended tang. Worse, the longer tang dug into my side in IWB concealed carry and was decidedly uncomfortable in all day wear. I also had issues not just with the recall, but also with the reliability of the trigger mechanism. Finally, one of the several totally necessary changes S&W made was changing the dimensions of the grip frame, so that grips used on the older PP series pistols no longer fit. It served no purpose, other than to create an inconvenience for everyone involved.

I have not shot one of the new ones, but if they are any better at all than the S&Ws, it makes the S&W PPK and PPK/S pistols the low point in production.

I do however like the Umarex/Walther PPK/S .22 LR. With the exception of using a P-22 style barrel liner and barrel nut, it's very much a PP series pistol. The barrel liner is pressed into the frame to create a fixed barrel just like the PP series and all of the rest of the parts reflect the PP design, just without the same level of finish on the small parts as the older pistols. But they shoot very well, particularly considering the price point.
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:52 AM
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My favorite bit of hypocrisy from the Walther Forum purists is that they nitpick the fit and finish of American-Made PPKs, yet turn around and praise the fit/finish of WWII-Era PPKs which were obviously far worse.
Oh, and before you go thinking they meant circumstantially, considering what they had to work with at the time, the answer is no, they honestly think they have objectively better fit/finish. Honestly, they'd sometimes even go so far as to pictures of their WWII PPK covered in machining marks, with an uneven finish which didn't match between parts, and grips which looked like they were partially melted, (but then again, maybe they were) then start talking about how "they don't make 'em like they used to".

They just live in their own little world, I suppose.

I can accept folks being turned off to Smith & Wesson PPKs based on negative first-hand experience regarding the recall, but most of the guys on the Walther forum admittedly never owned one, and those who did if you look back at their posting history hated them long before the recall or even sold them before it, for reasons which had nothing to do with drop safety.

Fortunately, my S&W PPK/S is a late production model which was manufactured post-recall, and has been literally 100% reliable since I got it. The only hiccups I have ever experienced were operator-induced, with me short-stroking the slide or in one very specific case attempting to feed it out-of-spec ammo with substantial setback which I had no business shooting.
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Old 03-12-2020, 10:48 AM
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What I've found is the S&W made guns are the one that get the heat. The Ranger ones, which are made in the USA are generally not criticized. Pecking order seems to be German, Manurhin, Ranger, S&W. The wartime Walthers are in a class of their own so far as collectability. I've never owned, shot, or seen a S&W Walther, but I don't think all the criticisms are from "purists." Many of them are for fit, finish, and function, and customer service.

But the main thing is if the gun functions, regardless of who made it, it's fine. I've had Colt 1911s that were jam-o-matics back in the 80s.
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Old 03-12-2020, 12:21 PM
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The S&W made Walthers are the red headed step child for both companies. I tried to date my S&W PPK/S. Smith & Wesson claims they have no records on them and Walther barely recognizes their existence. No information can be found on production numbers or dates. SCS&W contains one paragraph about them that simply says they did make them.
On the plus side. Walther Arms in Fort Smith, Arkansas will honor the warranty and repair S&W make pistols. Their customer service is very fast and excellent.

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Old 03-12-2020, 01:04 PM
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What I've found is the S&W made guns are the one that get the heat. The Ranger ones, which are made in the USA are generally not criticized. Pecking order seems to be German, Manurhin, Ranger, S&W. The wartime Walthers are in a class of their own so far as collectability. I've never owned, shot, or seen a S&W Walther, but I don't think all the criticisms are from "purists." Many of them are for fit, finish, and function, and customer service.

But the main thing is if the gun functions, regardless of who made it, it's fine. I've had Colt 1911s that were jam-o-matics back in the 80s.
While they get less hate than the S&W models, the Ranger/Interarms models were still generally viewed as inferior amongst forum members during the time I was a regular there. The most praise they ever got was; "They make decent carry guns, but there are much better options these days. You'd be better served carrying [insert modern .380 pocket pistol or 9mm subcompact here]." To me, that's barely even praise.

I call the folks who disliked the S&W models "purists" because they absolutely couldn't help but throw in a negative comment about the beavertail or the fact that it wasn't made by Walther every single time I mentioned mine in a thread.
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:15 PM
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What I've found out is there are two types of Walther PP pistols: shooters and collectors.

The Ranger ones are pretty well regarded now as "carry" or shooter weapons. Not so much for collection guns, of course, because carry or shooter guns is what they are. There are few other choices for similar size .380s, like the Sigs, but not that many choices for all-steel small(er) .380s. A used Ranger PPK will not bring the price of a German gun in the same shape, but not many carry their collector PPKs for SD or shooting.

The Ft. Smith new ones seem to get good reviews, so far. They are reportedly selling for well above factory price. Even though a lot of people don't like the tang, including me, people seem to accept that's what you're going to get in a new Walther.
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:34 PM
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What I've found out is there are two types of Walther PP pistols: shooters and collectors.

The Ranger ones are pretty well regarded now as "carry" or shooter weapons. Not so much for collection guns, of course, because carry or shooter guns is what they are. There are few other choices for similar size .380s, like the Sigs, but not that many choices for all-steel small(er) .380s. A used Ranger PPK will not bring the price of a German gun in the same shape, but not many carry their collector PPKs for SD or shooting.

The Ft. Smith new ones seem to get good reviews, so far. They are reportedly selling for well above factory price. Even though a lot of people don't like the tang, including me, people seem to accept that's what you're going to get in a new Walther.
Having a rather meaty web between my thumb and first finger, I was ecstatic when Smith & Wesson extended the tang.

The short tang takes a LARGE group of folks that love the look and style of the PP family of pistols but hate having to use alcohol and a bandage as we depart the range. That long tang is very functional as far as we are concerned

Never more will I get bitten by a Walther slide. It is a shame that the improvement had to come from Smith & Wesson, if that had been changed in Germany 70 years ago, everyone would be OK with it


That being said, most of my Walthers are European


I need to photograph my PPs
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:07 PM
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I've got pretty big but not meaty hands. Never been bit, yet, for some reason. Never got bit with a 1911, either.
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:23 PM
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I've got pretty big but not meaty hands. Never been bit, yet, for some reason. Never got bit with a 1911, either.
OK, I wil change the order of 3 words to better fit the subject at hand
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The short tang takes a LARGE group of folks that love the look and style of the PP family of pistols but hate having to use alcohol and a bandage as we depart the range. That long tang is very functional as far as we are concerned
The short tang takes a group of LARGE folks that love the look and style of the PP family of pistols but hate having to use alcohol and a bandage as we depart the range. That long tang is very functional as far as we are concerned . . . .


1911s do not bother me. Thor's Hammer is by my side as I type.

The PP family of firearms is fine If I make a conscious thought to grip low which I seldom do

The TPH was worse. Thankfully we had a couple of guys in the office fighting to take it off my hands. I sold mine a few years before Interarms started having them produced here in America

Somehow my Father has problems with the Beretta 92s
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:04 AM
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What a gratuitous oppertunity to take advantage of and post my Walther collection (so far).
Enjoy my 99% or better examples I've been lucky enough to acquire.
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Old 03-17-2020, 11:04 AM
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Having a rather meaty web between my thumb and first finger, I was ecstatic when Smith & Wesson extended the tang.

The short tang takes a LARGE group of folks that love the look and style of the PP family of pistols but hate having to use alcohol and a bandage as we depart the range. That long tang is very functional as far as we are concerned

Never more will I get bitten by a Walther slide. It is a shame that the improvement had to come from Smith & Wesson, if that had been changed in Germany 70 years ago, everyone would be OK with it../
I don't like the tang due to the discomfort it causes when carried in a low profile IWB holster.

I've only been bit by the slide once, and that was the first time I shot a PP series pistol, and used a high grip that isn't appropriate for the pistol. The slide bite issue strangely enough came along about the same time the high grip started to become popular.

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Old 03-28-2020, 03:11 AM
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Dear forum members, first I want to congratulate all of you for your precious collection and holders of Walther of the PP family. I value and enjoy your passion and knowledge. And I have enjoyed reading every opinion and intervention in this thread.
I would like to ask you, because recently, I bought a Walther PP, in NIB state, with all accessories and matching box, but it turns out that both magazzines lacked NIB state, with all accessories and matching box, but it turns out that in Walther's Banner and it doesn't even say the gauge. They literally lack an identifying mark. However, they look new without use. I tried them and they work perfectly. I find it hard to believe that a pistol that is in a perfect state of conservation with a 100% blued finish state and others to the NIB state, does not have its original chargers, but perhaps someone kept the originals and placed a replica, which it would be sacrilege.
However, I ask you. Expert experts of the Walther PP, is it possible that a Walther marked ULM, has magazines without brands or Walther banner?
As accessory data, the lifting part appears to be chrome, which helps to visualize when it is emptied.
I deeply appreciate your help.
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:41 AM
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PERA: I bought one of the last ULM made PPK-S in 380 back in the early 80s. It was brand new in the box and from a reputable distributor. It came with two magazines, one with a finger rest and one without. Neither magazine had the Walther Banner or any other identifying markings. They both have worked flawlessly over the years and I have no reason to believe they were not of Walther manufacture. Hope this helps!
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Old 03-28-2020, 10:39 AM
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I know of both a PP and PPK (chambered in 380), both marked Ulm and made in 1961, that have mags with NO markings of any kind.
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:12 AM
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What a gratuitous oppertunity to take advantage of and post my Walther collection (so far).
Enjoy my 99% or better examples I've been lucky enough to acquire.
Another nice Walther PPK collection. Thanks for posting.

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Old 03-28-2020, 12:22 PM
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Dear forum members, first I want to congratulate all of you for your precious collection and holders of Walther of the PP family. I value and enjoy your passion and knowledge. And I have enjoyed reading every opinion and intervention in this thread.
I would like to ask you, because recently, I bought a Walther PP, in NIB state, with all accessories and matching box, but it turns out that both magazzines lacked NIB state, with all accessories and matching box, but it turns out that in Walther's Banner and it doesn't even say the gauge. They literally lack an identifying mark. However, they look new without use. I tried them and they work perfectly. I find it hard to believe that a pistol that is in a perfect state of conservation with a 100% blued finish state and others to the NIB state, does not have its original chargers, but perhaps someone kept the originals and placed a replica, which it would be sacrilege.
However, I ask you. Expert experts of the Walther PP, is it possible that a Walther marked ULM, has magazines without brands or Walther banner?
As accessory data, the lifting part appears to be chrome, which helps to visualize when it is emptied.
I deeply appreciate your help.
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The Walther PP only ever came chambered in the following cartridges: .22LR, .25 ACP (Extremely Rare) .32 ACP, and .380 ACP. The latter two being the most common chamberings.

Fortunately, there's enough difference between all of the aforementioned cartridges that you really can't make a mistake. You should be able to easily tell by simply examining the bore and chamber. If you're unfamiliar with the bore diameter of these cartridges, lack any equipment to measure calipers, or simply distrust your ability to judge at a glance, then you can always field strip the gun then attempt to insert dummy rounds/snap caps into the chamber by hand and see if they fit properly.

That being said, you may not want to fire it, as there were a few cases of American Soldiers taking unfinished PPs from the Walther factory after WWII which hadn't been heat treated. The fact that your PP lacks any markings to indicate what cartridge it's chambered in may indicate that it is one such unfinished pistol, unless the gun is simply very well worn and the markings have all merely worn off, but that would be highly unlikely as Walther's rollmarks are pretty deep.

Pics would help.
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Old 03-28-2020, 12:47 PM
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Apparently, the lack of caliber only occurs on the magazines. You can tell the GI bringbacks from the factory because of the machining marks on the metal and poor finish.

All mine (3) have Banner marked mags but I wouldn't worry too much if they weren't. Apparently, some don't.

The only mags I've seen with a chrome follower are those for my Star BM. Makes for smooth reloading of the first round. The follower isn't flat, either, but kinda rounded. Hard to describe.
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Old 03-28-2020, 01:09 PM
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Over Christmas my buddy and I walked into a gun store half drunk, and walked out with two Walther PPK/s’s. His in silver, mine in black. We love em, they are fun to shoot, while still feeling like a gun vs a plastic toy. We use them to have fun competitions. At under $300 bucks, it was an easy sell.

Mine was a little ammo sensitive when I first started shooting it out of the box. Buddies ate everything. We changed mags and now both of ours eat anything you feed it. Including that 3 cent Thunderbolt stuff!

Speaking of mags though, good luck getting a spare. I emailed Walther about it after searching high and low, they said there would be a shipment of mags in March. Well it’s almost April.

Both of us marvel at how accurate these little guns are. It really makes for a more positive experience. I love that the DA pull is insane. It allows me to plop it in my back pocket as I walk my property just in case I need it for a snake. The SA pull is perfect.

You should get one! They’re fun! Assuming you can find .22 ammo.
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:16 PM
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I have stopped counting rounds of 22 in my stash. I went out right after this virus struck to get a black 22lr PPK/S from Academy with gift certificates and saw the incredible line of people shopping for their first guns not knowing what they were looking at or buying except that it was a gun followed by the line of folks waiting to nervously fill out their first 4473 looking like they ran into their pastor at the brothel. Not for me. The Academy stores around me are sold out of the PPK/S. I suppose that the PPK/S will be available in the summer.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:53 AM
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I thank you deeply dear "Noshow", and "hittman77" if you have helped me with your answers last night I did not sleep worried because the magazines without marks of any kind; They have restored my peace, with your answers.
I had been looking for and waiting for years for a Walther PP, PPK or PPK / S, perfectly preserved because my country is very small, Uruguay, and the offer is very small, but life gave me the possibility of buying a PP made in Germany, ULM, from 1971, new in box, which you can imagine was very expensive for me. Even before receiving it, buy in Europe two sets of English walnut grips, one with the Walther banner and the other one with walnut roots. They imagine then why my sleeplessness and concern with magazines without banners or brands. I tried them and they work perfectly, it is more the pistol, it seems to have never been fired, until it reaches my hands.

Esimado "HARRY CALLAHAN DIRTY, I apologize, because my English is not good, and apparently I did not express myself well, because the pistol is from 1971, but it is new in box, with all accessories, and therefore the pistol itself is legible with its "made in germany, ULM" markings It came with its two new chargers, but the chargers do not have the BANNER WALTHER and NO CALIBER BRAND.
My concern was that those two chargers were not original Walther. But with your answers, I see that in those years, it was common for them to leave the factory with chargers without Walther brands or banners. So I regained confidence that they are indeed Walther factory originals, despite lacking any inscription.
When you know how to upload photos, if you want, it will be a pleasure and pride to present them to you in the forum.
See you
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:05 AM
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@PERA,

Ah, I see. In that case, don't worry. Modern Walther marked magazines bearing the company banner/logo aren't actually made by Walther, but by Mec-Gar, so even if your magazines did have the Walther banner stamped onto them, it wouldn't necessarily indicate that they were made by Walther.

I don't think that Walther bothered stamping their magazines in the past, especially not during World War 2, so they're most likely original. Besides, what are the odds that someone would have a vintage Walther PP, complete with the box, yet somehow lost the original magazines and was trying to deceive you with with aftermarket magazines?
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:51 AM
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A guy on the Walther forum recently called Walther about Mec-Gar mags when looking for replacements to see if the M-Gar mags were suitable. He asked if Walther mags were made by M-G, and they told him no, they made them in house. Whether this is accurate, I have no idea. I've heard the M-G thing before, rather widely reported, and it's quite possible if they don't now make them, they did at one time. Walther told him no factory mags were available then but would be. Can't remember when this post originated, but the update reporting no mags yet was recent.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:22 PM
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Well, I know that Mec-Gar made them for Smith & Wesson PPKs at least, perhaps now that has changed since Walther USA is making them.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:28 PM
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In the 70s I bought a German made PPK/s new and wore it all the time. Wore out the blue and had it nickeled. Recently bought one of the new ones make at Walther US in Arkansas with some German parts. Out of the box the Double action trigger was just under 12 pounds, but crisp with no creep. In single action is at 5 pounds and very clean. I am quite happy with it. Won't wear the finish off this one (S/S)

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Old 03-29-2020, 04:40 PM
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"Harry Callahan dirty", thanks again for your message.
 And to you "Gene" for your intervention.

"rkttine" congratulations on your new acquisition.
Personally, what I like most about the old productions is that all of their pieces were forged, machined and some key pieces segmented. In addition to the perfect fit of the parts and exquisite blue finish.

Now, they have "MIN" parts, they work very well, and it is the technology that most closely resembles the classic forged and machined results, but they do not match them. I understand that this new German-American version, while having a cast frame (RUGER technology) and MIM parts, does have some key forged and machined parts. Some say it has the best of both worlds, the traditional and the new technologies, and maybe so.

I believe that the Walther PP series are weapons that require a very careful and high-quality manufacturing process, as they are usually German designs, they are complicated as only the Germans can do them well. Incidentally, France did, because it was occupied during the war and had German technology in its plants. and go if you did them well, the Manhurin are excellent. And I think that's why the first stumbles in the Smith & Wesson production.

Now, I understand that the new production of Alcanzas has the knowledge and experience of S&W and is also a shared production with Walther Germany. so perhaps if you have "the best of both worlds"

However, stainless steel gives practicality to the unique model.
 Instead it loses part of its soul: the classic blue finish.

Although I personally love the blue finish, when it is mirror polished and blue reflects, like the old blue finishes from Smith & Wesson or the famous Royal blue finish from Colt's. They are beautiful !
I must recognize that I love to look at them and use them, but it forces me to be aware of them and clean them frequently, this does not happen with stainless steel, as everything in life loses something and gains something.

What happens, however, is that being a piece, so classic, with so much historical heritage, the blue finish is for me, it is essential, but it must be a brilliant mirror-like flue finish as they used to be of high quality and workmanship. work and this is not possible without greater budget in its production.

Now to be opaque blue finish, they preferred a well polished stainless steel.
I hope your kind comments.
Just my 2 cents
Thank you.
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