Anybody own or shoot these old shotguns? I've got a late 1940's Rem. 11 in 12 gauge., a blast to shoot...I'm going to be modifying it a bit however...gonna turn it into a Whippet. Although keeping the barrel length 18.5

I have a Savage 720 that is my favorite autoloader. And am piecing together a Model 11 in sort of rat rod fashion-it even has an Auto 5 buttstock!

Ive got 3 Auto 5's; they are a great joy in my life. Its gotten to the point tho that there is a profit to be made parting them out. Dang walnut is like gold!

I routinely shoot my 2 Browning Auto 5s at casual skeet and 5 stand. I have a 1966 Sweet 16 and a 1971 Magnum 20. I also start out pheasant season with one or the other of these two.

What works of mechanical art. And the history they embody is amazing. Probably the single biggest blunder Winchester ever made, letting this design get away.

I have both a Belgian Browning A-5 and a Remington Model 11. The Browning is a vent rib hunting gun, the Remington is a former police evidence gun that had seen better days. I stripped off its coats of bbq grill paint, cut it down to 18 inches, and refinished it with a can of Brownells do-it-yourself parkerizer. Its a great gun, and it goes with me on road trips, stuffed full of 00 buck.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Ya I was reading up on the HX. during the war years REM manufactured A5 as well as Model 11's during Nazi occupation of Belguim, there were some parts cross overs as well. The stocks are hard to find...every forearm has cracks in em it seems. Not all but most. Mine are in pretty good shape.

When I was a teenager I bought a well used Remington Model 11 and cut the barrel to 18.5".
It is a recoil operated action, and mine would not function with lighter loads such as dove and quail loads.

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John

I have a couple Model 11's and a RAS, Remington Autoloading Shotgun, which was what they were called before the Model 11 tag was added. I still remember the first time I leaned on the barrel with the butt on the ground and it dipped into the receiver. Freaked me out until I found out that was normal.

It's all about the friction rings set up, so they say.

You could probably adjust the recoil system and get it going with light loads if you wanted.

I've had 3 of the Browning A5's. 2 were Belgium & the other was a Miroku version. I shot the Belgium ones at trap & skeet. Wonderful guns & the softest shooting shotgun's I've ever shot. Learn how to setup the recoil system as the photo shows above.

Cory

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

I have owned two of the Remington M11s, a 12 and a 20. I got the latter for my wife, but she didn't like it so I sold it. The main drawback is the weight. Browning also designed a semiauto rifle on basically the same long recoil system, produced by FN, and later by Remington as the Model 8 and the Model 81.

I once worked with a guy who was an instructor at an AAF aerial gunnery school during WWII. For awhile they used Rem M11s and Savage 720s to teach prospective gunners how to lead targets. He said that when they broke them down for cleaning, they made no attempt to keep the parts for individual guns together. So parts interchangeability was very good.

Properly sprung these guns are soft and gentle shooters. Not the mule-kickers some believe they can be. They’ll happily pound themselves to pieces, though, and do require some attention from time to time.

I need a good source for a new Rem 11 recoil spring. Also, I was thinking, wouldn't a standard 870 4 shot capacity mag spring & end cap and follower work in the Model 11?

Be mindful when cutting these and the A5 down that they have a long coil spring inside of a metal tube (Bolt return spring) extending well back into the buttstock.
It's much further back than just the exposed top tang of the shotgun and the 'nose' of the butt stock.

If you cut the butt stock down any, you have to leave that portion in tact. Leaves you with a section of butt stock behind the pistol grip but the gun still works.

Remington made Riot guns in the Model 11. I think they were 20" bbl's normally,,maybe shorter, but full size buttstocks.

A5 and Model 11 forends tend to crack. Just one of the 'features' of the design.
It usually comes from the forend being repeatedly tightened down with the forend cap. Over time and with wood being effected with oil (softened) and overtightening the cap, ect, the forend is slightly moved to the rear

There is, at the other end of the forend, a slight inlet in the wood for clearance for the bbl chamber extension.
That extension recoils on firing and then sharply springs forward under spring tension (to eject the fired round).

If that clearance gap is taken up by over tightening the forend as a whole,,then the front edge of the chamber extension slams into the wood each time it comes forward and batters it ,,cracks the wood.
That slight clearance is meant to avoid that contact and any damage to the forend.

Nothing wrong with the Remington Model 11.
About the only thing it has that the FN didn't was the added buffer washer rivited to the inside back wall of the rcv'r. Rem said it was necessary, FN never saw it that way.
Most of the buffers are long since gone from being brittle and cracked. They can be replaced. Some don't bother, many don't even know it was there and gone.

The true 'Whippet' Remington, the shotgun that originally got that nickname in the Remington lineup was the Model 17P (Police)
14 1/2" bbl and pistol grip buttstock (20ga only)
The early editions used a pistol grip stock with the spur or knuckle at the top of the grip to aid in handling. Later production came w/o that feature. Probably more pain in use than anything it offered in handling efficiency.

Had a Remington 11 12 gauge years ago. Worked reliably but couldn't get enthused about it. Later came into a Browning A5 Light Twelve, Bishop stocked which was a lovely gun, but was sacrificed to a good cause. Found a Remington Sportsman 16 for short money in an LGS a couple years ago. If I keep practicing I may manage to miss with it, but so far it's like throwing lightning bolts.

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Thank you all for the information. Regarding the forend stock, with the mag nut tightened but not over tight shouldn't the rear section of the forend stock abut the front edge of the receiver flush? Or would one preferentially allow a small gap of 1/8 inch or so? I always assumed it should be flush when screwing the mag end cap in place. I don't want to crack my forend stock. And as to cutting the rear stock, ya I am aware of the bolt return spring assembly in the buttstock. I will make sure regarding clearance. I may not recut it at all but was thinking of trimming an inch or possibly a slight bit more.

I have a 1950 vintage A5 Light 12. It's a real sweet shooter, provided you have the rings seat up right. Came with a factory Cutts compensator and I later added 26 in barrel with the choke tubes and a buck barrel with the rifle sights. Can't bear it for versatility and reliability.

Forend nut is suppose to be hand tight and backed of one click. A5 probably best auto ever built. Ran for close to 100yrs. Maintained they will last forever. I use a A5 Light 12 and took a beating from 1100 clan over weight of gun. Well weigh a A5 light 12 and a 1100 Rem ( with similar barrels ) and you will be surprised.

Change the springs - who knows how old they are and how many rounds have been through them - new springs make a HUGE difference!

BTW a Remington 870 mag extension will thread right on - but a spacer will be needed to get everything to fit properly, if you don't want to do a little bit of trimming.

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Thread Killer.

The Remington model 11 and I have a very special relationship. I liked it so much, I wrote an article about it that appears in the Gun Digest 2017, page 315. One Good Gun...

I have a Mod 11 dating to 1932-33. No telling the rounds through it. Mod fixed choke, aftermarket vent rib..had a hammer break and the recoil buffer replaced in the 40+ years I’ve owned it.. also own a Belgian Light 12 that’s never been fired other than factory... early 60’s gun...beautiful wood..saving for grandson when he’s old enough...

Ordered an A5 12 Gauge standard (not magnum) recoil spring from Ebay..just to have for extra...I did score previously a NOS REM 11 recoil spring currently in the gun so good there. The A5 recoil spring should work in my REM 11. I do need to get into the bolt / carrier return assembly & spring...need to have a replacement.

Currently my 11 is at the Gunsmith to get that polychoke whacked off & leave an 18.5 barrel over-all length. Going to have him replace the buffer in the receiver, my original one is still there but lookin ratty & I am not up to drilling out old & a running blind rivet down that receiver. Plus gonna have him tear it down for a complete check on everything.

So the Browning design did not run a receiver buffer but Remington did? That seems odd.

The forend should seat against the frame around the bottom and side edges of the wood.
But at the very top edge of the wood forend where the bbl extension is visible on the front of the frame, there should be a bit of clearance so that extension doesn't touch the forend.

The bbl extension in it's full forward position under spring tension in an assembled gun should appear flush with the front of the frame.
That's good and the extension can't batter the back edge of the forend inlet. A little clearance in the inletting inside is usually done for insurance.

The only thing that holds the bbl and that chamber extension in that flush position is the other end of the forend. The inside machined seat in the walnut where the bbl ring sits under the spring tension of that recoil spring. The screw cap on The other side holding everything in place. That's it.
If that seat gets battered, soft from oil, ect and the bbl moves forward a bit in it's return motion upon firing, the chamber extension moves forward as well and batters the back end of the forend and cracks it.

Keep the forend wood dry of oil and clear of damage inside the seat up front. Keep the cap screwed down tight and back it off one click so you don't have to use a pliers to remove it the next time. Keep a watch on the bbl extension and that it remains flush with the frame in front.

FWIW,,allowing the bbl and chamber extension to move forward of the frame intentionally is part of the process of converting a 2 9/16" chambered A5 to a 2 3/4" chambered gun.
Relieving the wood in the forend for the chamber extention because of that is then necessary to prevent cracking it.
Same idea..one intentional,,the other cause due to wear.

At the front end it IS the forend wood that the bbl ring strikes inside and stops the forward motion of the bbl every time the gun is fired and the bbl returns to battery.
But since that's a solid piece of walnut, and the bbl ring strikes it in a stable machined seat backed up on the other side by the forend cap,,they rarely break there.
They will break if the forend cap is left too loose and the forend can shuck back and forth when in position.

Yes Remington added the bolt recoil buffer,,FN said it wasn't needed. It's still a point of discussion/argument betw M11 and A5 owners.
The Remington version left off the Magazine cut-off feature too. Not much banter back and forth about that particular feature.
I like the cut-off, but then I like the cut-off on LeeEnfields along with Volley sights. Just gadgets now.

I've got a 1935 mfg A5 and a 1962 mfg A5 both 12ga.
Fun to shoot and not at all bad as far as recoil. But you do have to get the rings on correctly. Many shooters still can't seem to get them right, or just set them up for light loads and then they work with anything. But you and the gun suffer when the heavy stuff is used.

I have a pre-11. It's marked Remington Autoloading Shotgun, and dates to 1909. It has an 18" barrel and is a blast to shoot. I keep the friction ring set for magnum loads (buckshot and slugs) as it's one of my SHTF guns.

What great info you guys have provided...learning more everyday...at first when I got this M11 I was trying to decipher the friction rings & collar from the age old diagram pasted inside the forearm stock...LOL. I got a take down manual, tore it completely apart, that's when I saw the ratty leather buffer in the receiver, too daunting a task for me.

I did put the new recoil spring in, cleaned original parts up & figured out friction rings etc. and reassembled. I did not get into the bolt return spring & guide rod in the buttstock. So I need my Gunsmith to go through everything. But I know a LOT more than then.

Mine is ser. number 728257 built around 1947? cannot pin down exact year but know it's a post WW2 near the end of the production line since I believe 1948 was the last year. The finish is pretty good all around & the stocks are original with checkering, some dings etc on the wood well worn but fairly nice. BOTH top sides of the rear portion of the forend stock were cracked about 1/4 inch down so were apparently filed down that quarter inch in a rounded off fashion..so it makes a slight angle where the tops abut the receiver at the front of the receiver, but nothing too bad., otherwise no cracks anywhere on the rear or forend stock. Interestingly it has a Browning butt plate.

My Dad had a Browning Sweet Sixteen that my brother has now. One of my uncle's had an Auto-5 clone that had a thickened knurled section of the barrel to work the action. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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Ive got a '31 a5 12 Guage, take it out every weekend to shoot a few clays when its warm, sees the dove fields occasionally as well.

My Dad loved hunting dove and quail in east Texas. His shotgun was a Model 11 with cutts compensator. I am the oldest of three boys. When I was 10 Dad gave me a new Winchester .410 pump. When my brother was 10 he got that gun and Dad bought me a new Remington 20 ga. semi auto, and I loved that gun. I was a good wing shot with it and I was devastated when it was stolen from our farm house. I can't recall what shotgun I had after that. After Dad passed I got his model 11. I had the barrel cut to 18.5", the cutts removed, a bead front sight installed and the gun was completely refinished so it looks like new. The only problem, and hopefully one of you has a solution, is the serial number is on the metal plate where the shells are loaded. After years of shooting at least two of the digits have been rubbed to the point where they are unreadable. The gunsmith who rebuilt the gun has passed away. Being a retired peace officer, I know there is an acid that can bring up the remainder of the numbers but this is a private problem, and I would not use law enforcement resources to read them. I think the serial number has 5 numbers and two are unreadable. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

May I inquire as to which type safety yours has? Post pic if possible.
Reason I ask is I'm told the early models had the safety inside the trigger guard in front of trigger in somewhat garand fashion. A later version has the push button safety button (push L-R) located behind the trigger. I was wondering when the change occurred?

The early ones did indeed have the trigger in the guard. My rat rod receiver (dates to 1925) and trigger guard plate is set up this way.

I can’t recall when the changeover was made though.

My late 1940's M11 has the conventional push button left to right side safety in back of the trigger guard., the change from the earlier in trigger guard style was earlier, 1927 to 1928 I believe.

I use my Model 11 in local 3-gun matches. It is fun to use a gun older than any of the shooters, and have it work, while others fail.

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Tom

If the gun was all original and by that I mean the bbl on it was the orig to the gun from the factory, the bbl should have a matching and full orig ser# on it to the frame/receiver.
Usually on the bottom of the bbl or underside off to one side along with inspectors marks.

I believe the trigger guard/trigger group assembly has a full ser# stamped onto it also on the inside of it. Usually on the side of the lower tang visible once you take the stock off.

On my Dad's model 11, the safety is inside the trigger guard, directly in front of the trigger. I have not seen one like this before. My other Remington rifles and shotguns have a cross bolt safety behind the trigger guard. I have had a lot of Remington rifles and shotguns, as I love the company and it's products. I bought two Mossberg shotguns and had to sell them because I reached behind the trigger guard for the safety, and the damn thing was on top. Besides Dad's model 11, my favorites are my .Remington 552 BDL 22 rifle, and my V3 Tac 13 shotgun.

The earliest of these were simply called the Remington AutoLoading (Shot)Gun. 1905 to 1910
Marked 'Remington Arms Co'
Safety inside TG and ser# on the bottom of frame in front of loading port.

In 1911 the shot gun was name changed to 'Model 11'
Remington got a name change to: 'Remington Arms Co-Union Metallic Cartridge Co' because of the merger of the two.
The Model 11 kept the inside the TG safety and the ser# on the bottom.

This lasted till 1919 when the company name changed once again:
Now it was 'Remington Arms Co, INC.'
Right around this time they made the change on the Model 11 to the cross bolt safety and elliminated the inside the TG safety.
Also the ser# was transplanted from the bottom of the frame, to the left side of the frame.

The exact ser#'s of the changeover, are not known. Some speculation by collectors by reviewing known guns, their known shipping dates, sales dates ect and filling in the blanks to come up with a fairly good idea.
Right around the ser# 200,000 is what is usually given (+/-). But even then the sources contradict each other quite a bit by which year that may have been.
Something for collectors to wring their hands over and wonder about I guess.

You have to figure in the near certain use of old parts in the building of some later guns as nearly nothing was tossed in those days. So an early feature can show up on a later gun sometimes.

In 1921, Remington started using the Bbl Date Code stamp on all production. That really narrows down checking for changes and build dates.

My M11 still at the LGS Gunsmith...I was going to have him do a full detail clean & replacement of needed springs etc. Plan now is simply what I originally put on the work order, dump the Cutts adjustable choke, barrel to 18.5 & replace that bolt buffer in back of the receiver...no more. I'll be lucky if he can do that fiber buffer replacement, otherwise I'll deal with it.

I am able to do a complete tear down so whatever else is needed I'll do myself.

I was reading about the option of using some type of bicycle tire rubber piece of material cut to fit & using an aircraft grade adhesive to adhere it to the back of the reciever apparently permanently so I've read, rather than dealing with that blind rivet.

I have a model 11 and A5, both have friction rings that need to be set depending on the load. You also need to make sure the magazine tube is clean and lightly lubed with 30w.

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213th FBINA

I have a dedicated rigid pipe cutter for cutting shotgun barrels. They have to be draw filed afterwards to take care of slight flaring from cutter and small crown job. Just enough to take care of burrs from cutter. I have hard spherical stones on 1/4” stems. Couple bucks each at most HWD stores.