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  #1  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:22 PM
Tom 1951 Tom 1951 is offline
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Default Used Beratta 71 or New Walther PPK/S .22

I decided I need a .22 plinker. A used 71 with the fake suppressor can be bought for $300 plus fees. Take off the extended proboscis and you get a nifty carry .22. I see the PPK/S for about $320 in the box plus fees. So cost is pretty much a wash.
I have considerable experience with the Beretta in .32 and .380 and less with a .32 PPK from years gone by. Frankly, I prefer the Beretta in the hand. Mags are more expensive for the Italian, but the SA/DA German doesn't impress me. In larger calibres, OK, but in a plinker I'd as lief stay with a single action.
I'm afraid a used Beretta might be better than a new Walther, modern quality control being what it is. Does anyone have experience with these two for a side by side comparison? What's the quality on the Walther? And is the slide pot metal like the Walther .22?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:28 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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One vote for the Walther PPK/S in 22LR, but I am very used to the SA/DA and like the feel of the Walther. The only Beretta handgun that I have shot is the Model 92 and there is nothing wrong with that. I ordered the PPK/S last week. Good luck with whatever you choose.
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:40 PM
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I have both and, surprisingly, prefer the Beretta--feels better, shoots better.
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:47 PM
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My beretta 71 eats anything I put in it. The only jam it’s had is when my 11 year was shooting it and limp wrist it. The 71 is a little tricky to put back together but YouTube will show you the way. As far as the fake suppressor a drill press and a little heat and it’s off in less then 30 minutes. I’m for sold on the safety on the 71 however, it’s really easy to disengage. That’s my 2 cents on it. Good luck
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:05 PM
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Got the Beretta 70s on a trade.
Was surprised how much I liked it!
Usually the only things I like from Italy are the Ladies and the food!
Then I bought a 21a Rat Gun, also a 22 cal.
Then I bought the Walther.
Itís a little lets say rougher than the Berettas.
And itís got a Heavy Double action trigger pull.
All perform well with good ammo, MiniMags.
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:41 PM
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I have two Beretta 71's and would recommend them highly. They are accurate, reliable and easy to pack around. The Mossad used their 71's to good effect several times.
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Old 05-14-2020, 12:06 AM
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I have the Zamak Walther PPK/S .22 - bottom line is I would not recommend it.

There is only one problem with the gun, that unbelievable double action trigger pull. It is nearly impossible and borderline dangerous for inexperienced People to use the DA trigger pull. I regularly shoot various DAO Smith K-Frames so I have an exercised trigger finger, but 10-15 DA pulls on the Walther will get my finger twitching.

If you keep the Walther as a SA gun, it is great. Mine has been very reliable, with a few issues in the first 100 rounds, but then smooth sailing with various .22LR ammo, even when mixed in the magazine. The Zamak Pot Metal alloy doesn’t bother me and contributes to a solid feeling pistol. SA trigger is good, if not pretty darn good. The DA trigger is worse than a staple gun.

I hoped the PPK/S might be (1) a .22 DA/SA trainer and (2) a third string CCW when I wanted to have an old school look. Due to the 15+lb DA pull, it fails at both those missions. YMMV.
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Old 05-14-2020, 04:50 AM
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I have both a Beretta 71 and a PPK in .22lr.

I like them both, but the Beretta is more comfortable in the hand and a slightly better shooter.

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Old 05-14-2020, 06:01 AM
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The new PPK/s just looks and feels cheap to me and the Beretta is old world craftsmanship so I would choose it of the two you mentioned. Another gun I might recommend is the Bersa Thunder .22 which is quite similar to a Walther PPK/s. I've had one for about five years and I love it. It's got a great DA/SA trigger, excellent ergonomics, sights, and is very accurate and reliable. I only shoot CCI Blazers in it because the cheap .22 ammo doesn't have enough power to cycle the heavy all steel slide.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:23 AM
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Years ago I had a Walther PP in .22lr and a Beretta 70s in .380......wish I still had both.

Of your two choices I'd opt for the Beretta.

My .22 "plinker" these days is a Smith M&P compact.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:24 AM
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I have owned a couple of PPKS in .380 and the previous comments on the DA trigger are accurate. Early this year I bought a Berretta 72 and found it to be a surprisingly accurate little plinker. It has only one magazine but I'm only into it for $170.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:31 AM
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I bought a 71 a couple of years ago, the fake can was easy enough to take off. Recently I bought two Triple K mags for it. Both of the mags fed fine but the slide does not hold open on the last shot with either.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:38 AM
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What is a good source for purchasing the Beretta and what is the best model of the 70's?
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:44 AM
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I've seen several Italian Police trade-in Berettas for sale lately that look like pretty good deals.


https://palmettostatearmory.com/daily-deals-new.html


Beretta 32 ACP | PREMIUM Pocket Pistol | Gander Outdoors

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Old 05-14-2020, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer17 View Post
I've seen several Italian Police trade-in Berettas for sale lately that look like pretty good deals.


https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...CN_600x450.jpg
Agreed. They are popping up here and there. If somebody wanted one, now is a good time.
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Old 05-14-2020, 04:54 PM
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I bought the PPK/S .22 which scratched the itch for the .32 PPK I stupidly traded for something else. Yes, the DA trigger pull is awful. Extra magazines are hard to find and not inexpensive. That said, the SA trigger is good and the thing has functioned flawlessly with everything I've fed it. I don't mind the "pot metal." Have not found a holster for it.

Oh yeah, I paid $249 before tax at Sportsman's Warehouse.
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Old 05-14-2020, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer17 View Post
I've seen several Italian Police trade-in Berettas for sale lately that look like pretty good deals.


https://palmettostatearmory.com/daily-deals-new.html


Beretta 32 ACP | PREMIUM Pocket Pistol | Gander Outdoors
I bought one of those a few months ago. 189 shipped but it was a limit offer. I let the neighbors' kids shoot it last week, very mild recoil. I have one of the 71 I really like it, it has been 100% with all ammo. I am taking it to a GS tomorrow to have the threads cut off and re-crowned flush. I cant stand those threads. I tried a thread protector but they look silly to me.
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Old 05-14-2020, 05:54 PM
Tom 1951 Tom 1951 is offline
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Wouldn't you know it? I went to GunsAmerica to get a 71 with the supressor already removed. It was there Tuesday, sold now. I guess it's Gunbroker and I'll take off the pipe myself.
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Old 05-14-2020, 06:07 PM
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I own a Walther PPK/S .22 and love it. It's a great little shooter with classic aesthetics.
However, the finish (at least on the black one that I own) leaves a lot to be desired. So if you're going to get one, then pay a bit more and get the nickel plated one.

Oh, and ignore anyone who tells you that the PPK/S .22 is made of ZAMAK because it isn't. That was a mistake posted on Walther USA's website which has long since been corrected, but folks continue to spread the misinformation. I actually contacted Walther Germany about it once and they assured me that the information posted on Walther USA's website was very wrong.
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Old 05-16-2020, 05:18 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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I have both and geeez!your question sounds like you are asking a father to choose between one of his 2 sons.
I say get both;they simply are that good.
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Old 05-16-2020, 05:59 PM
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I haven't owned either to be honest, but own PPK in .32&. 380. I don't quite understand the DA complaints on the Walther, though. Who plinks with a .22 in DA? And the Beretta is SA only, so there it is. You can go to the Walther board and see what they think of them over there. Me, I want a longer barrel on a plinking pistol because it extends the usefulness of the pistol.

In general, .22 autos can be problematical, or have a history of being so. I've never had a problem with semi .22s but I've always used good ammo.
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Old 05-16-2020, 07:20 PM
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If the Walther Forum you speak of is the same one I used to be a regular on, then I can spare him the trouble of visiting to see what the average opinion on the Walther PPK/S is...

"I bought a PPK/S .22 as a trainer a few years ago but it was just such a piece of junk that I won't even sell it because my conscience won't allow me to pass on such garbage to anyone else for any price."

Also...

"I WOULDN'T TAKE ONE IF IT YOU PAID ME! WALTHER HASN'T MADE A PROPER PPK SINCE THE 70'S! JUST CHECK BETWEEN THE SEATS INSIDE YOUR PORCHE AND BUY A VINTAGE PPK!"

Or...

"The PPK/S is a terrible, obsolete design. There are better, modern firearms like the SIG P938 which are better to carry and more fun to shoot."

And my personal favorite...

"The mere fact that you even had to ask this question shows that you are an inferior peasant who doesn't know the difference between a proper Walther PPK and Umarex trash. Fortunately, refined, handsome gentlemen such as myself are here to instruct you on the finer things, although I very much doubt that your feeble mind is capable of comprehending such things. A vintage Walther PPK is refined, handsome, and sophisticated, much like myself. Whereas the current crop which Umarex is attempting to pass off as a PPK is crude, unsightly, and simple, much like yourself."

And no, I'm not exaggerating, I'm merely providing an accurate gist of the sort of responses that I often saw whenever the subject of newer production PPKs was brought up on the Walther Forums during the time that I was a regular there, which was between 2015 and 2017.
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:56 PM
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I would say 71 is the one you want. I never owned a Walther but I shot a real one. Even on single action it was only gut buster. I have a PP 32 and it shoots much better than the 22. I was going through 22s on 32 frame, in search of perfect carry piece for field & stream. The 21a would outshoot Astra Constible, Bernadelli , Mab and all the FIE and American Arms clones.
I gave up and got 422 S&W not that much bigger than 71 but has enough accuracy to make it practical.
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Old 05-16-2020, 10:21 PM
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Get the Beretta.

More quality and can be used for defense no problem.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:47 AM
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Get the Beretta.

More quality and can be used for defense no problem.
I totally agree. I have a Walther PPK/S .22 and this is an accurate statement:
Quote:
There is only one problem with the gun, that unbelievable double action trigger pull. It is nearly impossible and borderline dangerous for inexperienced People to use the DA trigger pull.
I had some trigger work done on it so that problem is mostly resolved - only the result is I get light strikes and clicks, not bangs. So I don't trust it. I actually thought I'd carry it but that ain't happenin'!

It is terribly cute; I admit that much!




Now, as for the Beretta Model 71, or Model 70s, which is, I think, the actual gun that was used by the Mossad and is still used by the IDF, at least as a training pistol (been there, done that, so it's a fact) - the 70s is steel, while the 71 is aluminum framed - it is a very high quality pistol, not hard to conceal as larger .22s are concerned, but it is single action. I am not a fan of single action pistols of any kind for self defense (yes, that includes the 1911, a story for a different discussion).

Okay, it's nice looking, too - I don't have a picture of mine but here is an example in .32 ACP:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ta_70_7.65.jpg

(c) 2020 Wiki

The Beretta's with the faux suppressor are just silly. If they come off that's a good thing; then you have a gun to conceal.

However, let me put in a word for the Walther P-22. It's polymer framed which is NOT my thing but it's VERY concealable, well made, reliable, and can have a real suppressor on there, and I gave one to my girlfriend because it's so easy to operate:



And no, she didn't get the suppressor. I kept that for my other Walther P-22. I might not love polymer frames but quality is quality.
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:52 AM
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The Beretta 71 is a well made high quality firearm with exceptional reliability. It is traditionally manufactured in a completely different time period than the Fort Smith PPk/S. I prefer the old world craftsmanship of the Beretta 71/76 over the Fort Smith PPk/S.

However, I prefer the old Walther, Ulm .22 l.r. PPs over the 71 and am surprised about one negative comment about the PP here. I have shot dozens of different Manurhin and Walther .22 l.r. PP, PP Sport and PPk/S pistols and all had useable double action triggers and were very well made guns, having been manufactured since before the Beretta 70 series, and even 34 series were first built and also in the same quality of that bygone era.

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Old 05-17-2020, 08:47 AM
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The PP was the world's first small sized DA/SA pistol and the whole series has a pretty hefty DA trigger pull. You can't lighten the pull (and still have reliability) due to the geometry involved. Sadly however, you'll find trigger pull snowflakes who try exactly that a ruin a perfectly good pistol.

If you just shoot one for awhile, you develop muscles in your trigger finger and no longer notice the pull. Like any other DA trigger, it's also designed for you to put your finger over the trigger all the way up to the joint, to give you more leverage.

----

I have a Model 71 as well as the Walther/Umarex PPK/S .22LR and an original Walther PP in .22 LR, in the British issued L66A1 version.




I like the Beretta 71 and it's best value for the buck when you can find one. They are reliable, fairly accurate and well made. The frame is aluminum and the slide is steel.

I also like the Walther PP as it is very accurate, well made and the steel frame and slide give it excellent durability and nice weight and balance. That said, mine is very reliable with 8 rounds or elss in the magazine, but will have issues with 9 or 10 rounds in the magazine. Magazines are also hard to find and well north of $100 if you find one, so a magazine problem is a big problem.

In that regard I actually like the PPK/S .22LR better. Walther/Umarex did a superb job on the magazine design with an better feed angle and a wider stagger than reduces the potential for rim lock. The pistol uses the same fixed barrel design, with the same excellent accuracy, and if you compare them side by side, you'll find it's a PP series pistol. The differences are a barrel shroud and liner design with a tension nut like the Walther P22, a lower level of finish in the small parts, and a Zamak frame and slide with steel where it's needed. The Zamak is appropriately used from an engineering standpoint and gives it a weight and feel that is closer to the .32 ACP and .380 ACP versions.

It's also a very good value for the money, provided you are not looking for an heirloom.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:26 AM
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Donít pass on a Beretta 70s.
Same as a 71 but Steel Frame.
Hereís mine with Rat Gun 21a Little Bro.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
I totally agree. I have a Walther PPK/S .22 and this is an accurate statement:


The Beretta's with the faux suppressor are just silly. If they come off that's a good thing; then you have a gun to conceal.

However, let me put in a word for the Walther P-22. It's polymer framed which is NOT my thing but it's VERY concealable, well made, reliable, and can have a real suppressor on there, and I gave one to my girlfriend because it's so easy to operate:



And no, she didn't get the suppressor. I kept that for my other Walther P-22. I might not love polymer frames but quality is quality.
Glad yours is a good one. I bought one about 12 or more years ago and it was awful. It was reliable, but not accurate at all. I got it so I could put a suppressor on it but my suppressor's diameter is larger than yours and I couldn't see the sights, so I mounted a red dot and accuracy just wasn't there. It was sold as a S&W Walther P 22 and was without a doubt the worst .22 pistol I've ever owned. It had a barrel extension and shroud which I foolishly bought hoping to improve accuracy (yes, the extension actually screwed onto the barrel) but no luck.

Put me off on S&W Walthers, a bias I haven't been able to shake. Giving credit where it's due, it fed reliably and was light in the hand and wasn't expensive until I started to improve it. IIRC, in the movie "Dinner Rush" one was used up close and personal.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:08 AM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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I have the Zamak Walther PPK/S .22 - bottom line is I would not recommend it.

There is only one problem with the gun, that unbelievable double action trigger pull. It is nearly impossible and borderline dangerous for inexperienced People to use the DA trigger pull. I regularly shoot various DAO Smith K-Frames so I have an exercised trigger finger, but 10-15 DA pulls on the Walther will get my finger twitching.

If you keep the Walther as a SA gun, it is great. Mine has been very reliable, with a few issues in the first 100 rounds, but then smooth sailing with various .22LR ammo, even when mixed in the magazine. The Zamak Pot Metal alloy doesnít bother me and contributes to a solid feeling pistol. SA trigger is good, if not pretty darn good. The DA trigger is worse than a staple gun.

I hoped the PPK/S might be (1) a .22 DA/SA trainer and (2) a third string CCW when I wanted to have an old school look. Due to the 15+lb DA pull, it fails at both those missions. YMMV.
The DA trigger is worse than a staple gun...........SIR.....You just invented a soon to be famous qoute..........I like it!
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:10 PM
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...


I also like the Walther PP as it is very accurate, well made and the steel frame and slide give it excellent durability and nice weight and balance. That said, mine is very reliable with 8 rounds or elss in the magazine, but will have issues with 9 or 10 rounds in the magazine. Magazines are also hard to find and well north of $100 if you find one, so a magazine problem is a big problem.

...
As an FFL08 firearms importer, I have the chance to shoot every gun that I import and enjoy the priviledge of having a much larger sample size. I have over a dozen .22 l.r. Walther PP mags in my personal collection and have shot at least half a dozen Walther, Ulm PPs in the last month and had only a few problems where ten rounds in the magazine caused the top one to nose dive. The easy remedy is to use German ammo like RWS or Geco, which, imho, is acceptable for a pistol that was first developped in that calibre in the early 1930s.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:00 PM
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Does any company currently sell the Beretta .380 police type trade-ins or the Beretta 70s? I checked the Palmetto State Armory and nothing.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:39 PM
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Does any company currently sell the Beretta .380 police type trade-ins or the Beretta 70s? I checked the Palmetto State Armory and nothing.
Those are all extremely hard to find. The Beretta .32s are now easy to find; I had to have one, but it's a jamamatic so I put it away.

But they're all a little large for concealment in such diminutive calibers. I have all of them.

Quote:
IIRC, in the movie "Dinner Rush" one was used up close and personal.
That's what I believe the P-22 is for. It's not a target gun.
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:27 AM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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I admit the James Bond mystique did not hurt, but the shiny PPK/S in 22LR is a keeper.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:40 AM
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I've had a .22 PPK/S for about twenty years. I like the gun; very good quality and works well, but very difficult for me to shoot well. Perhaps that applies only to me because of my deficient shooting skills. Granted, I need more practice, but the PPK/S .22 would not be my first choice as a plinker.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:50 AM
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Rephrase time-
The PPK/S double action pull is so heavy-
How Heavy is it?
Itís so heavy - You not only canít hold it on target,
Itís hard to maintain a Cardinal Direction!
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Those are all extremely hard to find. The Beretta .32s are now easy to find; I had to have one, but it's a jamamatic so I put it away.

But they're all a little large for concealment in such diminutive calibers. I have all of them.



That's what I believe the P-22 is for. It's not a target gun.
Even the very scarce .25 acp?
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