So my son lives in NC and has in my mind the perfect set for a SHTF bug out combo
Glock 19 9mm
S&W M&P Sport 5.56
Both common with lots of spare mags and parts out there
Plus he trained on both in the USMC so he’s familiar with operating and cleaning them

I live in a restricted state and on a FaceTime video he said,” Dad you need a rifle.”

He’s right. I have a few handguns
HK VP9 and 6 mags our home defense gun (10 rounders)
S&W 19 4” .357 A safe queen
38/44 HD 5” .38
S&W 36 .38 my daily carry
Two long guns
An old Ithaca 37 12 gauge that belonged to her Dad
A nice Henry Golden Boy .22

So in my State the usual AR-15 is pointless.
I’m thinking that an M1 Carbine might fit the bill.
Auto Ordinance has one without any features making it compliant. It comes without a bayonet lug or flash hider and in a 10 round configuration. Now 30 carbine isn’t as popular as it used to be but I can access several hundred rounds as my brother in law has one. Plus some surplus sites sell it for a reasonable amount. And I can get some 10 round mags.

Missus and I if forced to leave would head for our son in NC
She could have access to the VP9. She’s a lefty I’m a righty so we can both use it. I could carry my 36 and we would both have access to a somewhat simple rifle to use.

Anyone have an M1?
Issues I need to be aware of?
How sharp is recoil?
Any ammo brands to avoid if I buy new?

Outstanding rifles. Virtually no recoil.

__________________
No baby we aint

If you can find one take a look at the Remington M-7615. It is a pump action .223 that takes AR15 mags. Mine came with a couple 10 mags but it will take regular AR15 mags of all capacities. They made them for the police market and they didn't sell well. Not sure what the going price is at present but there are some out there.

__________________
Keep Shootin' and check 6

Yes the M1 carbine is an excellent defensive carbine.
Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from owning one (i own two), but may i suggest for your consideration a lever gun in .357 magnum / .38 special. Preferably a Marlin 1894.

I have an M1 Carbine. It's not an AO but rather a WW2 Underwood. I don't think recoil is bad at all. With GI surplus mags 15 and 30 rounders it runs with no problems.

I don't know about AO Carbines, so I can't comment about quality, but one issue you may have is with magazines. If you are limited to 10rounders, you're stuck with aftermarket mags - which may or may not function properly. If you buy aftermarket, STAY AWAY FROM PROMAGS - they are poop.

Are Mini 14/30s considered evil assault weapons in NYS? If not, that may be one to consider.

__________________
Thread Killer.

An M-1 is certainly a good choice, but I also agree with Buick. A good lever-action rifle in a pistol caliber like a .38/.357 is hard to beat for a couple of reasons.

First, in rifle configuration (vs. carbine) they'll hold more than ten rounds. Second, you can continue to load them or top them off without having to remove a magazine. Third, they're the same caliber as your handgun, so no need to carry additional rounds of a different caliber. And fourth, (which might be significantly important especially where you live) they don't look as ominous as a military type rifle if you have to bug out on foot.

When it comes to ballistics, you're comparing apples to apples. The .30 carbine fires a 110gr RN FMJ to about 1,900fps. The .357mag carbine fires a 158gr JHP or JSP to about 1,900fps. There is a small but distinct advantage to the .357mag in a rifle.

Oh, and one last thing, if the proverbial "ship hits the sand," I'm not sure just how readily available .30 carbine ammo will be, but .38 special and .357 magnum are fairly ubiquitous.

So, there you go. Of course, whether you go with the M-1 or a pistol caliber lever gun, you'll be making a good choice. It's basically a win/win situation. I'm just showing a few advantages with the lever gun.

__________________
Pack light and cinch tight.

Not a rifle guy, but my first thought was a lever-action.

Once we got past the AR I thought that your M-1 carbine choice was pretty doggone good. But if you can get a lever rifle in a pistol caliber to match your S&W revolvers you will be well served. Recoil should not be a problem and you don't need a new caliber of ammunition. Even better if you can get it in carbine length.

__________________
Come and take it!!

I second the suggestion of the M1 Carbine. I would like to remind you of a few relevant points:
1. If you move to your son's via NJ, possession of an unregistered carbine has been illegal since May 1992, the last time you could register one was May 1992, and NJ doesn't recognize federal transport laws, so if you pass through NJ and get pulled over for some reason, expect a 5-8 year visit of a NJ prison.
2. An online merchant is selling two different flavors of can quantity 30 carbine for about thirty cents a round.
3. If you shop around for a carbine, remember that the Universal brand carbines don't accept most GI parts (at least that was the case when I purchased my IJ in the late 1980s).
4. You are limited to FMJ rounds for reliable function.
5. The carbine is most effective on close-range threats.

I like the little carbine, but it has it's limitations. Considering how anti-gun NYS has become despite the fact that the majority of the state is rural, I would give serious consideration to a 357 or 44 lever action carbine, such as a Marlin 1894 or a Rossi M92.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

When you say unregistered carbine, do you mean any semiautomatic rifle??
nj does not have a choice but to recognize FOPA, but he was talking about a SHTF scenario, in which case he would not be concerned with nj BLUE. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I've never owned a M1 carbine, but there's a discussion on the G&A forum now. There's also a Forgotten Weapons video about them and the love/hate of guys who carried them in WW 2. Worth watching. The complaint on the show was the magazines. One of he guys who loved them said they took new magazines WEEKLY, as he said GI mags were not up to snuff and were too thin and easily damaged. Thirty rounds? That's a lot of unprotected magazine sticking below the rifle.

Now I know carbines in civilian use aren't likely to suffer combat damage, it's something to consider.

The M1 carbine was Audie Murphy's favorite personal weapon, and that says a lot in favor of it. I read Murphy shot the gun like a pistol, one handed, up close instinctively.

The M1 Carbine is a great little rifle. I have 2 of them. If you really like it and want one...and *if* you know you can get reliable mags that are legal in your area (10 rounders, I presume), and if the cost/expense isn't an issue for you...then why not go for it?

However...given the cost of the carbine, mags, and ammo, *and* the likely very valid concerns about the mags...I would definitely consider a pistol caliber carbine.

The lever action in .357 does seem a good idea, given that you already have a .357.

Actually...if that Ithaca functions properly, and if the Henry is reasonably accurate, you're not really in bad shape. Both of those have you covered to at least 100 yards. Perhaps a more conventional rifle, in something like .308, .30-06, or 7mm, in a scoped hunting rifle configuration, would extend your reach?

If, however...you're just looking for something that's effective out to maybe 150-200 yards-ish, but has semi-auto rates of fire, aside from the M1 Carbine, what about some other PCC? A little research would be required to determine the availability/reliability of 10 round mags. One cost efficient idea, which would allow you to have a pair, one for each of you (if you were so inclined), would be the Hi-Point 9mm carbine.

I know...Hi-Point is a bit of a dirty word around many serious gun enthusiasts. I've never shot one...but they get almost universally good reviews, from many different reviewers. I hear they work quite well with the factory 10 round mags. Since you already have a 9mm, it's not a new caliber for you. You'd probably spend less on 2 Hi-Points, mags, and ammo...than you would on that single M1 Carbine. Probably easier to scope than the M1, also.

Anyway...just food for thought.

Hate to be the naysayer but having a SHTF gun of any type just rubs me the wrong way. If the time truly comes we all just need to bend over, put .our head between our legs and kiss our ***** good bye

What bothers me most is that when people prepare for such an event, they may have their motives right, but rarely take the time to be proficient in what they buy. The current trends at massive gun sales to inexperienced people that never owned a gun before is worrisome.

Nevertheless, to answer the OP's question, if the day comes, I'll be carrying a Glock on my hip and a 12 ga. coach gun slung over my shoulder. And yes, I have many years experience with both of them.

Seems the M1 Carbine would be a good choice. Mine cycles everything, no problems. Very light recoil too.

Another you might consider is a rifle I picked up just last week. A Remington 7615 Police ..... short barrel, pump action 223/5.56 and uses AR15 magazines! AR mags and 223 are plentiful plus it's not semi auto, has no tactical look and no bayonet attachment.

A mentor of mine who flew the back seat of a dive bomber over New Guinea said they use to throw the carbines in the garbage pits preferring the Springfields and Garands if they could find them. That was when the cooks would cook up soap and water to clean out the corrosive primer residue from the bores and gas systems.

__________________
"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I don't believe any US .30 carbine ammo was ever corrosive.

OP, have you thought about the CZ 527 in either 223 or 7.62 x 39?

It is a darned good little carbine with 5-round detachable magazines, and it also has the advantages of being currently made and politically correct to boot.

I have one in each caliber and I love them both.

__________________
Let's be careful out there

If it hits the fan I’d want a Remington 870 both for its defensive abilities and for game.

As i understand it, no U.S. manufactured carbine ammo was corrosive. I believe some French and definitely Chinese .30 Carbine ammo was corrosive. I have some of the Chinese.

In the 1992 Florio Assault Weapons Ban, the pre-ban ARs, M1 Carbine, AKs, and SKS's (with installed bayonets and detachable magazines were SPECIFICALLY targeted, as were anything substantially identical. Owners were permitted to register M1 Carbines and ARs if they were actively engaged in either NRA or DCM/CMP competitions. After the ban went into effect, a person could own an AR-style rifle only if it were neutered and didn't bear the AR15 logo on the firearm. If a semi-auto rifle doesn't look military, and the detachable magazine held less than sixteen rounds, you were fine. Commercial Browning BARs, Remington Gamemasters (or was it the Woodsmaster) and such were safe.

Yes, technically NJ is obligated to recognize FOPA, but what is exercised and what is the law are not necessarily the same in NJ. For example:
A person traveling through the state with larger than ten round magazines is breaking the law.
A person traveling through the state with hollow points is breaking the law.
People with hollow point key rings have been convicted of illegal possession and sentenced to mandatory 3.5 year minimum sentences.
LEOs carrying hollow points or magazines larger than ten rounds that didn't have arrest authority prior to retirement are denied the protections of LEOSA and are prosecuted.

I know what the federal laws claim, but in NJ, prosecutors (at the behest of the AG) charge and prosecute violations of NJ law then worry about honoring federal law only if they are rebuked upon appeal in federal court.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

I’ve owned several M1 carbines and they’re sure fun to shoot and very easy on recoil so even a slight built person could shoot it all day with no problems. But, the choice in ammo is limited.

As mentioned, I’m a lever action fan. The last guns they’ll come after are bolt action, single shot and lever action rifles. I collected military arms from the Indian wars through WWII in US, German, Russian and British weapons and have owned and shot a boat load. I was never a big fan of rifles for personal pleasure until my wife gave me a Henry 22 carbine a couple of years ago. I enjoyed shooting it so much it started me thinking about a larger pistol caliber lever gun. In January I bought a Henry Big Boy Carbine with the brass receiver in a 45 LC. I’m hooked now and might buy another in 357/38 in the next week or two. They’re not long range guns but neither is the M1 carbine. You’ll be good out to about 150 yards with the right load. Accuracy is excellent and recoil mild even with a stout load. Accuracy is excellent too. I’ve been working up a new load and shooting from a rest with open sights at 25 yards I put 16 shots in less than 2 inches. The 357 should do a comparable job and as mentioned the cartridge will be complementary to your revolver and there’s a huge selection of ammo.

Henry rifles are American made, if you should need customer service it’s excellent and they’re beautifully made. They’re beautiful and precision rifles that function like a Swiss watch straight out of the box. To show what kind of company Henry is, the owner often answers the phone himself and handles any issues personally. Customer satisfaction is paramount.

Some people prefer a side gate loading rifle but I personally like the tube loading magazine. If you need, it’s easy to make speed loaders out of PVC tubing for tube loading lever guns. With a side loader one shell at a time has to be loaded by hand. It’s like Chevy vs Ford, some like one and others like the other.

The only con I can see for some people is the weight of the Big Boy Brass receiver. It has a beautifully blued steel octagonal barrel and it’s a little on the heavy side. I selected the carbine version with the 16” barrel vs the 20” because I felt it balanced better. Henry also makes a steel receiver with a round lighter barrel in a 16 and 20 inch also and they’re much lighter. It’s also available in a case hardened steel receiver.

Although a lever action in pistol caliber is a good idea, I’d prefer a bolt action rifle in 308.

If you’ve got a Glock and an Ithica 12 ga, you don’t need another short range gun.

All you’re missing is a real rifle. Ruger makes an adequate Scout rifle, although I prefer the Steyr.

How about a Mini 14?

I have a number of long guns to choose from, and not too many restrictions. But a consideration to be aware of is: YOUR WIFE. My wife is a typical woman, she can carry one of the grandbabies all day long! But reaching strength is on the minimum side.

She cannot shoulder fire a full size AR-15!, but she can handle a Mini-14 or an M-1 Carbine just fine, Most Lever Actions are OK for her, but the longer Rifle configuration is pushing her a little far.

IF you opt for a M-1 Carbine, get several magazines! The old GI mag pouches could and should hold your 19 rounders, with some filler in the bottom. Slide one over the stock, install the sling and oiler.

Buy at least 100 rounds of Commercial Soft/Hollow Point ammo as well as the FMJ ammo keep you "Emergency" mags loaded with SD ammo! (Yes, it does cost real money! The results are worth it!)

Lastly, get a copy (or online) of the field manual, and read it! Then you'll know how to properly use your firearm, when you FIRE AND CLEAN IT EVERY YEAR (or more often), WIFE TOO!

A stock M-1 Carbine that has been sighted in, will be easier to hit 100 yard targets, than a stock Lever Action (I have 2 of each, I have done the comparison!)

Whatever long gun you buy, get a carry case, that doesn't scream commando!

Ivan

There is NOTHING more versatile than a shotgun. Need to get some deer for Meat, mount a 28 inch barrel with a cylinder choke and load the magazine with Foster Slugs or some Sabot 50 caliber shells and you have a Deer gun accurate enough to drop a deer at 100 yards. Need to protect the Home, fill the magazine with Buckshot, either 00, #1, or #4 and you have one of the most devastating weapons that can be purchased. If you are in the mood for a 4 and 20 blackbird pie mount a 28 inch barrel and some #8 Dove loads and you have all you need.

Another plus is you can get a 4 round Remington 870 Home Defense kit with 18.5 and 28 inch barrels for about 500 dollars. Finally I expect some time soon that New York will ban ALL semi automatic rifles, that handwriting is already on the wall. From all I've seen Shotguns will be the very last guns that will be banned.

I agree with all the people who praise shotguns. For defense purposes, they're versatile, accurate, effective, robust, and more affordable generally.

But having said that, I have to say I, personally never liked a gauge for SD/HD purposes. I've never used one for that usage, and have a S&W pump gun LE trade-in only because most everyone says I should. And it was cheap @ $200 and has rifle sights. Plus LE shotguns don't get fired very much and this one was in great shape.

Give me a rifle because I trust them more. Purely personal. If the OP can legally own a M1 Carbine, that's what I'd recommend especially in the unlikely SHTF situation. You can carry a lot more ammo for a rifle.

What about the Ruger PCC in 9mm with 10 round magazines? Then you wouldn’t have to add another caliber. Those that have them seem to really like them. Good Luck!

You can get a New York Compliant AR Looking Rifle in .223. No pistol grip, no forend vertical grip and no threaded barrel, or you can get one with one of those features but a pined magazine.

Bob

__________________
Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

In real situation anything but a semi auto is a toy. If you are buying a rifle to protect your life forget cowboy guns and precision hunting rifles. Get real. You can be real stylish with a lever gun and have some punk with an Ak light you up. I don’t know anyone who has been in a serious gun fight hankering for a lever action or SA six shooter. That’s fantasy land from action movies.

I was thinking the same thing. Get some factory 10 rounders. .223/5.56 should be more available than .30 Carbine. And a used Mini would probably be cheaper than an M1 Carbine.

__________________
Watch & Pray

In anti-personnel effectiveness I believe any semi auto trumps any other type of repeater, even with low cap magazines or limited to clip loading.

I like the M1 Carbine, consider a good Winchester 1873 clone in 38/357.

Are M1 Garands legal in NY ?

They are big and fairly heavy, but once you learn how to operate them are very effective rifles.

Just seeing this thread today, but my first thought was also a levergun. The current Marlins are supposedly getting better (after Remington took over), but an older JM would be a good choice. If looking at new only, Henry is top notch in my book.

A pistol caliber carbine is fine, but they're not quite up to something like a 30-30 or 35 Rem when it comes to ballistics. However the move up to higher velocity rifles also means higher recoil. If it's going to be a "family" rifle, a pistol caliber might be better. You can shoot mild 38's in a .357 magnum, or go full out Buffalo Bore loads in magnum style. Same with the 44 magnum and 44 specials, but the ammo price jumps significantly.

A good ole 30-30 is pretty easy for my wife to shoot, she even prefers the 35, and she's only 5' tall. Ammo is easily found for a 30-30 and they make reduced recoil loads for it as well. They are easy to load and operate and have a lot of history in the formation of our country. Everybody needs a cowboy gun.

Would second lever action .357 and also suggest Ruger PC9 9mm carbine.

__________________
otis

Ruger Mini 14

Have owned Mini 14, Island Manufacturing M1 carbine, Winchester and Marlin lever rifles.
For non AR SHTF semi, Mini 14 for sure. The new ones with their improved barrels are dinner plate accurate at a 100 yards with iron sights, ammo cheap and available, magazines the same, easy to service.
Love shooting a M1 carbine, such a fun gun. A Mini, however, is more accurate, more reliable, has a longer reach.
A Rossi 92 .38/357 20" in stainless would be a fine choice.
Google Hickock45 Rossi 92 to see just what a lever action can do

I like the M-1 carbine--I've taught many people how to shoot and the #1 centerfire go-to fun gun is the carbine.

It recoils like a .22 rifle but it is LOUD, so there is that to consider. Of course, most of the suggestions here would be LOUD as well and I would venture to guess that supressors aren't allowed where you live--strictly verboten here in paradise.

If you can score a bunch of ammo, go ahead and get the carbine. You'll need the ammo--it's easy to burn through 100s of rounds at a time.

What's wrong with a decent bolt rifle. I have a .308 SS Ruger 77 with a Nikon 4X on top. If'n I was defending my "spot," you'd have a very tough time getting within 200 yds. Way better than an M1 carbine with small mags. $.02. Joe

__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

I'm a big fan of the M1 carbine and have two. It was my chosen SHTF rifle for a long time. It was only a couple of years ago that I finally gave in and bought an AR. But that was primarily for ammo availability in the SHTF scenario. Honestly, if it were to happen, I might still go with the Carbine.
A very valid argument has been made for a lever action. Another excellent choice. But I would recommend one in the 16" Trapper length. They're lighter, more maneuverable and very fast to use.
The shotgun you have would also be fine. Hard to argue with a good scattergun in a defense situation. However, I seriously doubt that anybody in a "bug out" situation would be carrying spare barrels with them. I'd look for an 18" barrel and leave that on all the time.
Also remember that if it truly is a SHTF situation, battlefield pic-ups will likely be available. You can get an AR that way.

Look into the Keltech SU 16.
223 instead of a limited range and power pistol cartridge, uses AR mags and while not a target gun, it will shoot minute of deer out to 200 yards easily.
I am not too sure, but think one of the variations will get past “assault weapon” bans. you would want to verify that.

Not a Carbine fan.
Mini-14 sounds good to me.

__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER

I’m from NJ. IIRC some rifles are illegal by definition, M1 Carbine is illegal by name. I had one, great rifle. I’m surprised it’s not illegal in NYS.
That said, check out the SKS rifle. Semi auto, loaded by 10rnd stripper clips.so it beats current assault rifle laws. 7.62x32 is cheap and way more effective than M1 Carbine, 357 and some would say 5.56.
PS Recoil of the SKS should be tolerable for your wife. It does weight more than the Carbine.
I wouldn’t consider a lever action untill all semi autos are banned.
I’d rather have a Ruger Ranch Rifle with Mini mags in 223 or 7.62x39

I have a 527 FS/mannlicher (20" barrel) in .223/5.56 .... great rifle


Others to consider ......

Lever action in .357 is a great choice..... low profile. Winchester Trapper .357 with 16" barre is light and handy..... check out Skinner Barrel peep sightsl

Ruger 77/357 is a .357 bolt action carbine with a 5 round detachable mag... add a 1-3x20 Weaver scope and you're good to go.

Ruger also makes a Ranch Rifle/carbine in .223 that takes AR mags.....mec-gar offers 10 round mags. I've also got a couple of 5 round (C-Products) mags for woods walking..

Ruger Mini-14..... newer models with the heavy 16" barrel... Factory 10 rd mags are all most flush fit..... 5 and 20 round mags also available. Add a small 1-3x20 scope ..... very low profile semi.

Purly as a survival rifle a .22magnum..... 9mm muzzle energy Ruger make a nice Ranch rifle with a 9 round magazine and 16" barrel. easy to carry a 'bunch of ammo"

Little Mossburg 20 gauge Youth model shotgun......light handy short LOP..... break down for easy "storage" out of sight.

How about a Mossberg MVP Scout rifle? They are quite small and pack a big punch while having a variable capacity and ability to use both the M-14 and AR-10 magazines. Ruger needs the specialized AICS magazine.

If you have the money you can get a slicked up 1873 in .357 and really be equipped to hold your own. They are fast firing and accurate. With a little practice you can be as fast as a semiautomatic. The .357 has the advantage of ammo being field reloadable and economic on a pound of powder. I love a good Lee Loader Kit with some primers and projectiles. You can really maintain a capability of readiness for some time this way.

__________________
This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

Some wonderful advice above, some fun comments, and some controversial remarks.

First and foremost:

As someone else noted, they don't care. They'll happily arrest and prosecute you if you violate one of their unconstitutional, draconian anti-gun regulations. If you don't mind being the test case to ask SCOTUS to over rule the NJ regulations feel free but bring a thick wallet.

As for the controversy between lever guns and semi-auto rifles, or carbines, the real difference is in the reloading. With practice you can shoot a lever rifle in a pistol caliber about as fast as anyone using a semi-auto. However, after 10 rounds you're done and reloading is difficult and time consuming, especially under pressure. Ask any cowboy action shooter. So in a SHTF scenario you're outgunned from the get-go in a firefight against a semi-auto. So, despite my love of pistol caliber lever guns, as noted above, you do have to recognize their limitations.

That said, there are other "rifles" you can consider. The bullpup design creates a compact weapon even with a rifle barrel. And then there are the new AR "pistols". Designed without shoulder stocks, marketed legally as handguns, one of those could easily work for you. All the firepower or a typical AR but in a short size. Pistol calibers, rifle calibers, they're out there.

__________________
Come and take it!!

I like the Ruger PCC suggestions, I love mine in 9mm.

The fact that they can take Glock mags sold me, as they are easy to find and cheap.

10 round mags to stay legal at home and 33 round mags waiting at your sons in NC. Adjustable LOP and virtually no recoil. Oh yeah, and it’s a take down that fits in a back pack, no rifle case needed.

You can also find AR platform rifles pretty easily in NY. A number of gun shops sell them, with full features, with Patriot or Juggernaut magazine locks installed. The question is, are you willing to take that legal risk since laws are gray at best.

Another that's probably not a great choice for NY is the Beretta CX-4

My choice for a SHTF "PDW" ( Personal Defense Weapon) here in Pa. paired with a Beretta 92 Centurion.....9mm; even with it's 16" barrel it's shorter than an AR with the stock collapsed, 5lb, 15,20 and 30 rd factory/mec-gar mags available ( you can get 10 round mags from Beretta and Mec-gar)....... can mount a weapons light and red dot easily...... cus I don't a have an MP5

Designed as a select fire Police/military weapon with a 12" barrel. Currently seeing service in Italy and India (100,000) with the Border Security force...... some other countries.......

My M1 National Match Garand is legal in New York. They did not come with the bayonet lug. You can also get one now if the bayonet lug is ground off. With 8 round capacity and top load it is not even considered to have a magazine. It is awfully heavy though. Fine for 18 year olds to carry.

Bob

__________________
Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

It is considered an assault weapon in NY because of the pistol grip/thumb hole.

If legal the M1A seems like a great choice. Gives you wide effective range, factory 10 round mags available, mags can be topped off if needed.

Sks would also be good if legal.

Just did some quick googling and it looks like you can maybe get an SKS with the 20 round fixed mag. This would almost certainly be my pick.