Breaking news. SIG Sauer is closing their factory in Eckernfoerde.

Sig Sauer schliesst Standort Eckernf"orde | NDR.de - Nachrichten - Schleswig-Holstein

I’ll have to take your word for it. The link is all in German and I don’t see an option to translate.

Yeah I heard earlier

I love the Mastershop Sig Sauers. I have many of them. They are so much nicer than anything they try to build in the USA.

Personally I won’t own a US mfg’d SIG. was spoiled by the German guns early on.

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Some Might Say.

The story in English.

SIG Sauer to shutter German weapons factory

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Here are screenshots of the article, crudely translated:

SIG SAUER Delivers Next Generation Squad Weapons to U.S. Army | Sig Sauer

As they say at the end: Made by an American company with American workers in America. No room for $4,000 bench made collectibles at a rate of 100 per year.

I gather a part of the willingness to close shop is a growing anti-gun movement in Germany, even to the detriment of their military.
Ex:The German parliament's interior committee was told that the gunman fired 52 shots and police found 350 cartridges inside his rucksack at home.

Hmmf. Another case of a mass shooting where the victims had been disarmed by the state. 350 cartridges is only an afternoon at the range for lots of us.
I wish I understood the anti-gunners' disconnect from reality, but I don't.
I think they're in denial of human nature, wherein they expect all to be virtuous in their fantasy utopia.

In any case, that community is going to miss the jobs and Germany is going to miss another piece of its manufacturing base.

Sorry to hear. Were the german made Sigs higher quality than the ones produced at the New Hamshire facility? Better machined and QC over there. Always seemed like a highly regarded pistol.

The quality of the German SIGs was flawless. Simply OUTSTANDING.

The American guns are a joke in comparison and a pale shadow of the German guns. Truly disgraceful.

I think the US Sigs are fine, particularly the poly guns are selling very well and are so popular they arent in stock almost anywhere. Even their alloy guns sell well and shoot great.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I would respectfully disagree with the "disgraceful" sentiment a bit. I've been a heavy user of SIG Classic pistols since the late 80's and, while I agree with JayFramer that the WG P226's were of the highest quality, they were not perfect.

The welded in a breech block could let loose on occasion and the old style long hammer strut and spring made the DA pull atrocious. Having said that, the overall quality was indeed outstanding.

However, I've had several US made P226's and while they don't have the same cache as their WG forerunners, there are darned reliable. Has SIG overreached at times and stamped guns out too fast? Yes. Have stupid errors shown up on their pistols that should never have left the factory, such a horribly thin finishes (Legion), wobbly and non-securable rear adjustable sights (Elite Dark), weak trigger springs, breaking trigger bars or ill-fitted barrels that group like grapeshot? Yes. Has their Customer Service at time rivaled H&K for the "Go Pound Sand" model of apathy? Yes.

However, it is also true the vast majority of newer P226's function extremely well. They are made differently now of course, more simply and more cost effectively. To make a P226 today like they did in 1988 would probably result in a $2000 price tag, and few folks are going to pay that these days for a DA/SA duty gun, no matter how high the quality is.

I have a P226 Emperor Scorpion Elite in 9mm that is simply fantastic and runs rings around my '89 WG gun for usability. The overall DA pull is light years better, the SRT is as sweet as Christmas candy and it is actually just a bit more accurate. Same for my P226 Elite Dark in .357 Sig. There are many others that I can name that are balls reliable and laser accurate, like my M11/A1 and a Texas DPS retired P226 DAK. They've been run ragged and have never been found wanting.

Yeah, you stand a higher percentage chance of getting one that needs fixing with the newer guns, but the percentage is still small compared to the overall number made. And I think SIG's Customer Service has gotten a heck of lot better in the last few years...they had to, they were taking a merciless (and at times justifiable) beating over on the SIG Forum.

I would not feel uncomfortable at all using any P226, P229, P227 or P220 made by SIG today for duty use or personal defense. Sure, I'd examine it super carefully out of the box for flaws, then run it hard at the range for about a 1000 rounds before I bet my life on it. But then, I'd do that with *any* handgun that was going to fill that role.

You pays yer money and takes yer choice.....

While the loss of the Eckernfoerde factory won't affect mainstream U.S. consumer SIG offerings, it's certainly bad to have alternative firearm products removed from the market. Maybe SIG could move their German factory operations back to Switzerland, which is a more gun-friendly country. Or maybe SIG could even bring this operation to the U.S.

As to quality, my U.S.-made P320 has performed without issue for nearly 11,000 rounds, needing only a trigger bar spring replacement. It is the only one of my eight semi-autos that I've never been able to limp-wrist into an FTE/FTF while shooting one-handed. Its original trigger was very good, but the upgraded trigger is superb. I was just breaking in my new U.S.-made P229 when this stupid COVID-19 stuff hit , so the jury's still out on it, but it's looking like a keeper.

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What, me worry?

Not surprised, wasn't the German plant pretty much dead ever since that whole fiasco about 5 years ago when they sold a bunch of guns to the US Army, but then the Army gave said guns to aid Law Enforcement somewhere in South America, so Germany all but shut down SIG because of some law about selling arms in a conflict zone?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

That story is flawed. Sauer started in 1751, long before SIG.

Sauer & Sohn - Wikipedia

The had just done better and got back to have 150 employees again and it was only the constant problems, fines and roadblocks, that the great FDJ communist youth leader, Angela Merkel, came up with.

For anybody exporting firearms from Germany, the importer has to fill out an end-user certificate and the forms change every few months.

The German car industry will be axed next by libtards.

Jay

I got to disagree with you here. Sig has become a absolute powerhouse and hard to catch any more by the competition after the 320, 365, new beltfed machine gun etc and I do not think you build a near 1 billion turnover company after near bankruptcy in the early 2000s based on ****** product.

The 365 is a strike of genius and it gets incredible groups at 50 yards from a rest, sales numbers tell the rest of the story as I believe it is the single best selling gun in the US period.

The new P210 is a marvel of engineering, preserve the spirit and accuracy of the old while making modern upgrades to be able to produce it at a mass price point while using really great new and innovative materials such as quite specialized DLC that is beyond the usual.

The list of great accomplishments goes on and on.

I have a few US made stainless elites in 9, 45 w and w/o red dots for competition and would not trade them for anything at all.

Welcome to America. I could care less what Germany does or doesn’t do.

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Sure you did

Any "anti-gun" reasoning is poppycock. The company is blaming everybody and their hamster, but the main issue has been that Heckler & Koch and Walther totally creamed SigSauer in the German police market over the last two decades.

After the 1980s police trials, a majority of the German states and all four federal uniformed police services adopted the P225/P6, and only a couple of states each went with Walther (P5) or HK (P7).

That changed around 2000, when the first states looked for replacements. SigSauer had nothing really competitive to offer, and since then HK, first with the P2000, then the P30 and most recently the SFP9 for Bavaria, and Walther with the P99 QA and DAO, just cleaned SigSauer's clock in one state after another. All federal agencies went with the HK P30.

Heckler & Koch had its own scandal regarding supplying the G36 to Latin American death squads or whatever, so that political excuse doesn't work either.

I suspect German workers were getting too expensive for the shareholders, and they prefer cheaper American labor and are consolidating production in their US facilities. Since that's unpopular in Germany, they're tossing political smoke grenades.

PS: Gratuitous press montage of Bavarian police officers wth old and new service pistol. After 40 years of service, the HK P7 was finally phased out last year; I'm not certain the process is completed yet.

Attached Images

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There's plenty of people getting three squares in Club Fed with their business gone for breaching end of use provisions for war materiel laid down by Congress.

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Sad to hear of any high quality firearms manufacturing going down the tubes. My New Hampshire made P239 has never jammed and is impressively accurate.

Keep em coming. We love our neighbors at the nearby BMW plant.



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Huzzah, Huzzah! I've been dailying a P239 DAK in .357 Sig for almost 10 years, stuffed with Speer Gold Dots. Fantastic package for hot weather carry, slim mags make it very easy to bring spares.

I love my P229's and P226's, but Texas summer heat makes dressing lighter a must and that P239 makes it possible to carry a powerful piece that doesn't feel like you're trying to conceal a box of Wheaties with a bikini! LOL!

Yes, no comparison between the Mastershop German Sigs and the stuff they build here. Granted you pay a price for them, but they are are high end handguns with very high quality parts, precisely fitted, along with outstanding refinement and attention to detail.

I'm a big fan...





Nothing Sig builds in the States appeals to me. Not that they're bad guns, but just not my thing.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. The American P210A is absolutely nothing like the German Super Target. Check the two out side by side and there's no comparison. Also, the P210A didn't upgrade anything. They simply copied the modern features already being used on the Super Target and cheapened it from there, between the parts quality, fitting, and the cheapened locking design itself.

Sig USA makes solid pistols and they have been very successful overall. However, they are nothing special as compared to what was being built in Germany from a quality perspective. Its night and day.

Check out a Super Target sometime. I've got a couple of them. I'm not saying they're a better value for the casual shooter at $4000-$4500 than is a $1400 P210A Target, but there is a very significant difference. Its like comparing an American P226 Elite with a German P226 X-Five. BIG difference.

Here's one of my Super Targets in silver DLC. Do the American P210's even come with a test target? I don't think so. Maybe a minor detail, but its all about the details with guns like this.

I'm a fan of the older, all metal P2XX series pistols. I have four. A P220, P226 and P228 all made in Germany. And then a P239 made in New Hampshire. Great guns! I love 'em!

Sorry to hear about the German shop closing. But isn't that their Custom Shop and not a primary factory?

Honestly, I don't care for the current plastic Sigs at all.

Yes, its their Mastershop, as they call it.

I'm sure the main factory will still produce guns for the Euro market, but its the Mastershop guns that were their best. That's what's closing.

I know where your coming from. I own both versions of a 220 and 226. Had a break-in period with the American 220 other than that all 4 are fine. I'm not happy with the CA mods on the US 226. I bought the US versions to put the German ones up for posterity.

The US 220 is a standard 220R and the the US 226 is a Scorpion Elite.

Also have a pair of 239s in 357 sig, one came as a .40. They come to mind as possibilities when I see threads like "If you could only own one handgun..." One of them I believe has a German frame.

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9tenz

We cant have the plastic fantastic Sig guns here in CA, exception of the sp2022 and .40 version.. Even if we did, which I wish we did just for the record, I meet them with a meh. I looked at the P365 through the glass in the leo section and wondered what the hype is. Just visually I would much rather have my LadySmith 9mm for compact carry.

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9tenz

WOW Germany sure don't like it's gunmakers.
SIG Sauer to shutter German weapons factory
Read some of the other articles

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Forum consigliere

Have a West German Sig P6 and a Sig P239 in 40 S&W. I've used both to qualify for either renewal or new concealed carry permits here in Louisiana.Last qualification was with my P6 and instead of just the bare minimum required to pass the shooting test I fired over 200 rounds and all were center mass hits. Which I say not bad for a 73 year old fat guy who needed cataract surgery at the time. Still cannot fathom why Sig decided to cancel the P239?. Single stack instead of double stack mag pistols more popular?. Frank

They will treat their factories better once we take them off the nipple they have been on since 1945 of white glove full service military protection...grow up EU.

The P365 is not only a great shooting gun, having both a surprisingly managable recoil and good accuracy for size and weight, the size and weight make it also a very comfortable to carry and easily concealable gun.

Do not forget that West Germany had 450.000 soldiers during the peak of the cold war and another million in the military reserve. I was one of them, was drafted and served for 195 German Marks a month, not even $100. After the service I was in the reserve, not getting paid but paying $20 each year to carry my own insurance in the reserve organisation.

Time to get educated about the subject you are talking about.

Andy, I also served over there and I like to say everyone shall be very grateful for your service. It provided peace for a lengthy period since WW2. Point I was trying to make is that I am not sure I see other countries these days showing enough appreciation as well as contribution to keeping themselves protected against major threats coming in the future. Look even the state of some of the European airforces.

I decided to grab up one more Mastershop SIG before they are all gone. I picked up this P210 6" Super Target Midnight Tuesday. It a a real beauty and beautifully made.

Attached Images

IMG_0427.jpg (137.9 KB, 23 views)

Once upon a time I insisted all my Sig's were made in W. Germany. I had one of only 50 W. German p239's imported to US.



I still have my P228 and P220.

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Isaiah 41:10

Gentlemen,

I am a German gun owner and am personally acquainted with the sales manager of Sig Sauer Germany. Although I am not informed in depth about the current background of the decisions to close down the Eckernförde site, I can tell you so far: There has been a very difficult lawsuit following the export of handguns to Columbia via the US which was deemed illegal, a violation of rules to prohibit export of firearms. This has had severe impacts on Sig Sauers long-standing position with German federal countries as purchasers of their handguns for police departments. They partly lost their reputation with politicians and representatives of authority.

Although Sig Sauer makes high quality handguns in Eckernförde, the private sales of their handguns don't make enough profit. There has been a rumour for quite a time that Eckernförde will stop making handguns due to the decline in public business and they lost their Mastershop Manager about 2 years ago who was fed up with the uncertain future of his job. Now the management has made upo it's mind. Sad, but true.

Another point for those who don't know the German gun law situation. Germany is VERY gun unfriendly, politics and strong parts of the population don't support weapons ownership. Thus, legal restrictions of owning firearms are largely restricted to target shooters and hunters, official permits are mandatory and are only to come by under very tough official regulations. Many gun manufacturers can't make enoguh profit under such conditions, many dealers and gunsmiths have given up their business, many shops are closed over the last years. Now it's Sig Sauer who slams on the brakes.

reagrds from Germany
Ulrich

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Now I'm thinking I should have been a German Policeman.

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Vegan by proxy.

Thank you for taking the time to explain the situation there. I appreciate their products and hope SIG's survival in the consumer firearms market is not threatened.



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Never part with the German 228 and 220

West Germany didn't exist when the 239 came out.

I would think there are more than 50 with the German frame if I have one myself. I'm just not that lucky. The slide is USA, possibly by Ruger.

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9tenz

Hi,
just a few new information about the SigSauer situation in Germany, as reported in German media today.
Please excuse this awkward translation, I'm not very skilled in business and law english.

Prosecutor freezes SigSauer Germany business accounts. 7.4 million euros enforcement and all machines and finished weapons seized, because of the announced end of production at the end of the year. all employees sent home. Total recovery of 11.1 million euros, of which illegal profits of 7.4 million euros from illegal gun deliveries with Colombia with weapons from Germany. Judgment is still not final.

regards
Ulrich

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Life is too short to own a bad gun

Yikes! I hate news like that. I appreciate the info nonetheless. BTW your English is fine.

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9tenz