Never hit the right one at the right time.
Guess it was my time.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Wow. What a beauty

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Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

Thanks Sir
The forearm is incredible

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

LIKE, DROOL, LIKE, DROOL, LIKE etc. that is one fantastic looking old twice barrel. thanks for sharing. lee

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VFW, NRA, VVA, S&WCA 1758

Beautiful gun!

Run it through a sporting clays course a few time and you’ll be ready for dove season on September 1.

That gun won’t embarrass the dogs!

Always wanted a Super Fox

Sweet! I love a double for bird hunting, pick a tighter or looser choke by picking the trigger.

That is a drop dead gorgeous shotgun.

I have an old Savage 310 (internal hammers instead of strikers like the 311) in 20 gauge with 30" barrels choked full and fuller! Someone restocked with wood almost as beautiful as yours (but not quite!), and set it up as a very petite (women's or youth) trap gun, Then it was abused by people with no taste or class. My beautiful wood is full of deep dings and dents!

All that to say; Beautiful 20 gauges were quite the rage from the 1920's thru the end of WWII. Then they fell out of general favor! Now it is difficult to find one in good shape!

Ivan

The time frame on that gun is very limited, After Savage took over Fox, "The Special" was only made a short time. (I think these were just the left over frames and parts until they ran out.) Then later they had a "Fox Special B" (Just a 311 with not as plane wood and checkering!)

Very nice double. Great condition.

A double barreled shotgun, the most beautiful long gun ever made.

It's lovely.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

My beagle once turned and gave me a funny look after running the rabbit right by me.
Not my fault he didn't understand I only brought a handful of shells and already limited out.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Me too I think.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Nice gun Paul and a 20 ga to boot. Fox is a nice strong gun and that should be a joy to carry while hunting. I believe just over 6 lbs. Need a pic of each side of the stock, there is a lot going on with the grain. I am a big fan of SxS shotguns. Man, I’m jealous, Larry

Paul, That is an outstanding example of a Fox SP grade especially considering it is a small frame. I had a nice 16 ga SP 28” mod/full. I currently have a 16 Sterly. I live just a stone’s throw from the old Utica factory.

I will just add one thing, there are few words to describe the wood on your
gun. Two things, the 20 is and has always been my favorite.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

I don’t recognize what appears to be a white line spacer grip cap. Are the stock and forend uncheckered? The wood is outstanding in figure, color and tone.

Other side Larry.
There is a huge amount going on with the wood.
You know I'm a junkie too.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Employee gun I think.
Yes unchecked and no engraving

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

I love those old doubles. MORE PHOTOS PLEASE .

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John

An AH Fox SP (or SPE if it has ejectors) Grade.
Quite a rare shotgun, especially in 20ga.
Made in the early 30's to the mid 30's+.

The 'Skeet' and the 'Upland-Skeet' SP's were appointed with a small amt of engraving. The plain SP/SPE grade was void of any scroll but sometimes has simple border work on the metal.

Factory options included a single selective trigger (Fox/Kautzky system same as used on the other high grade AHF shotguns.) Straight grip or pistol grip, choice of butt plate or pad, bbl length and chokes, ivory bead sights ect.
The finish was a change from the original Fox post WW1 Cyanide case color hardening. These got a Blued finish often descibed as a black oxide coating finish. Something like the Baker finish used on their Black Beauty perhaps.
I fitted a forend to a customers SPE/16 a couple years ago that had a Factory set of extra bbl's.
The ejector forend metal parts were all 'in the raw' ,,orig Fox parts from a Gunsmithing/Parts outfit in the Adirondacks. Included a hunk of wood that kind of looked like a BT forend with a rough out cut inletting.
Got it all together and functioning.
Fitted to the extra set of bbls and also made both forends ( the other was a splinter) fit either bbl set. Checkered the wood on the BT to match orig Fox pattern. MAtched the wood finish and color. & on & on.
Very happy customer,,
then he told me he sold it.....


I suspect the OP's gun has been restocked.
The lack of checkering is the biggest thing.
The would quality is outstanding!,,The American Walnut blanks used to do the job must have been pricey indeed. Looks like something I normally see on a Grade 5 Model 21.

Congrats on a beautiful classic American SxS.
It'll handle just about anything in the field or target coarse you want it to do.

For your first SXS you started super good. An A H Fox is a good gun. Larry

I am in the O/U camp for the doubles I favor but that Fox is beautiful and as a 20, could hang out in my safe anytime. I would even take it hunting just to brag about it.
Congratulations!!

[QUOTE=2152hq;140808794 I suspect the OP's gun has been restocked.
The lack of checkering is the biggest thing.
The would quality is outstanding!,,The American Walnut blanks used to do the job must have been pricey indeed. Looks like something I normally see on a Grade 5 Model 21.[QUOTE]

The Savage 310 I talked about in post 8 has wood almost this good. Bishop stocks used to offer AAA blanks 95% finished with no checkering. That is the likely suspect for both of our guns! That will effect value, it won't effect pleasure!

Many times a gun was damaged in a bad fall. The gun was then repaired by a local, and put away. Beware of using "Express" shells. The fancy grain in the wrist has been known the break under recoil! (I had a 16 gauge sidelock that went through 3 blanks-very old stock from Bishop- The project was abandoned due to the wood's quality or lack thereof!)

Ivan

One of the few times I can tell a man, nice wood.

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KM
S&WCA 3110 S&WHF 625

Thanks all you guys.
I really feel lucky/blessed to have been able to acquire this.
It is the gun I waited decades to get.
I was told to see if the forearm is numbered which I will do.....just in case.
So Ivan just use low brass ?

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Getting old and wife and I both have "brittle bones"==I broke my upper right am in three places a couple of years ago. Got a pointing griffon I wanted to train (I broke my knee cap for the second time, so I couldn't work her). I had already replaced my O/U 12 ga with a couple of twenties. Wife liked the Ruger and I got the Beretta=both O/U Ruffed Grouse prize guns=better wood, engraving, etc.

Just lovely! I also suspect it’s been restocked, but that’s some serious high grade feather crotch walnut and it was inletted beautifully!

Check the chamber length. It may be marked on the barrels or water table. A lot of the pre-war 20’s were chambered for 2-9/16” shells.

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"I also cook."

A 2 3/4 fits.
A 3 doesn't
A 28 gauge drops way in.

Ask me how I know. : )

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

That's not an indication of chamber length. The chamber length accommodates a fired shell with the crimp open. Measure a 2-3/4" loaded 20 gauge shell and you'll see it's only 2-1/4" long. I was thinking 16 Ga when I mentioned 2-9/16". I think early 20 gauge guns had 2-1/2" chambers.

If the crimp opens into the forcing cone, you're basically swaging the shot cup and shot through the end of the hull. It pushes the pressure up. Think of it as a proof load. I saw a lovely 20 Ga L.C. Smith with a cracked stock from shooting a box of the wrong shells.

If your Special has short chambers (made for paper shells), you can always buy these: 20 Gauge

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"I also cook."

The wood grain is amazing. I can see why you were drawn to it. You do have a knack for finding the exceptional pieces. Congrats Paul, enjoy.

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Don't You Ever Wash That Thing

Great A.H. Fox Double Barrel Shotgun, great 20 gauge, great
Purchase, Congratulations.

Thanks for the Story and Pictures. Hopefully a Range Report to
follow.

SxS Shotguns forever!

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SD social distanc'n since 1889

Thanks John I'm about out of real a state to take on of.....but I'll try this afternoon for you.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

I believe that by the time Utica Savage took over production of the Fox gun, (or very shortly thereafter), the chamber lengths were of the present day standard length. But I’ve been wrong before, and my memory is getting worse....ugh.
Paul does it have single trigger, ejectors, barrel length, chokes?

Barrels are 26
Haven't checked chokes yet.
A single trigger.
No ejector's ...found out it has ejectors shows you what I know.
Not engraved or checkered at all.
I did find out though the early guns weren't engraved at all.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Beautiful gun. Love looking at them. Kant hit anything with em, but love lookin atem.

Oldster/ John
More maybe better ? of the forend.

The I hung from the ceiling to try and show the side to side carryover.

You owe me on that one... : )

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Bigmoose/ John....the #'s all match.
Stock may or not be original but still doing happy dance.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

That is beautiful wood on that double.

When I was a teenager, I would occasionally rabbit hunt with an older man named Pete. Pete had a Fox double twelve and a beagle. The beagle would find a bunny, Pete would shoot, usually twice, and then yell "Dang it!" (or something close ) Old Pete never got too many rabbits, but we always had fun hunting 'em.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

HI my friend if this shoots true....it's bunny nuggets. I haven't missed a thing I pointed at yet.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

If you haven't gone there you gotta go to AH Fox Collectors Association. Some great info there. Great find!

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

That is total fiction, and has been repeated so often most everyone thinks it's the truth. There is no problem in using 2-3/4" shells in a 2-1/2" chamber, which is what many early 20 gauge shotguns had. Can anyone actually believe that a tenth of an inch of thin plastic case mouth length could constitute a bore obstruction which raises pressure? Ridiculous!!! At one time I had a conversation with the head ballistician at Federal, he said their tests showed no change in chamber pressure in firing the 2-3/4" loads in a 2-1/2" chamber.

I have a very early (1913) Winchester Model 1912 in 20 gauge (the Model 1912 was initially offered only in 20 Gauge). It has a 2-1/2" chamber, and I have always used 2-3/4" shells. The real problem with the Model 1912 is that the ejection port is a little short for 2-3/4" Federal plastic shells - the fired cases are about 2.72". And they will not eject. Remington and Winchester plastic cases are slightly shorter (at about 2.6") and they eject OK, just enough room to clear the port . So I use only Winchester or Remington cases.

Thanks for the tip and yes I have gone there.
Learned a bit too.
Part of the reason I had my dealer stick it in the closet for me....lol

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

The Fox action is one of the simplest and most reliable of the old American doubles. Their single trigger was also highly rated. Can’t say that about most of the others of that era.
Very nice gun Paul, and well optioned. Congrats.

Paul, you out did yourself with that one. I'm thinking that had to be custom ordered wood. Beautiful. If you normally don't shoot doubles they take a few shot to get used to. Take it to the skeet field a couple times. I have a Ugartechea 12 with double triggers, and I always have a relearning time each time I shoot it, but there is something special about shooting doubles.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Do you have a source to back up your opinion?

This is worth reading: https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-100.pdf

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"I also cook."

Reminds me of a time when I used to dip snuff and a volley of ducks came over decoys on a flyby when my hands where in the cookie jar. The dog looked at me, then let out a half sneeze that sounded more like a scoff.... I quit dipping for both of us.

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Ban this man,
'89

The earlier (Philadelphia mfgr) AH Fox (I'm nor sure of the Savage mfg guns made in Utica), had their chambers usually cut shorter than the 'spec' of today.
12ga chamber length back then was 2 5/8.
16ga ws 2 9/16"
20 was 2 1/2"

Many other mfg's used the same lengths. They also varied somewhat. IIRC AH Fox also cut theirs a bit Short of this spec at that time as it produced better patterns.
I believe Remington may have also.

If you wish to shoot these vintage guns you have to remember that they are just that.
Also on a Fox,,the bbls came in 4 different 'weights',,#'d 1 thru 4. The bbl weight numbers can often still be seen on the bottom of each tube just forward of the bbl flats.
#1 was the heaviest,,#4 the light weight.

What it all meant was bbl steel removed from the outside to lower the weight of the tube(s). There is a table that provided the specs that the different gauge/lengths of the different weight bbl sets were supposed to be within. Customers could choose the bbl set weight and get a heavier or lighter gun that way.

A #3 or #4 bbl is much thinner especially up at the chamber end and just forward of it than a #2 or #1.
This has to be kept in mind not only when (re) loading for these but also when the thought of altering one is considered such as lengthening the chamber out to 2 3/4" and/or lengthening the forcing cone.

The latter sometimes is the only operation done, the chamber length left as-is.
The thought being that a long gradual taper relieves the old short abrupt forcing cone and it's perceived issue of boosting pressures using modern length ammo in a 'short chamber.
Some modern cut 'long forcing cones' are Very Long',, 2 and 3 inches in length. Some are cut more to remove old pitting and make a nice shiny bore than to improve anything.
I often wonder when I see one of these how much measuring was done to see what would be left of the wall thickness before the work proceeded.
I've seen wall thicknesses taken down to single .000's. Burst bbls that look like a piece of paper in thickness.

The barrel wall thickness you're working with and the amt you are reducing it to get the above result may not be worth the end result safety wise. It takes some precise measurements and knowledge before running a couple reamers in there and calling it good.

At times the best way is to leave the gun just as it is and use 'short shells' Either reload them yourself which is not difficult at all. Or buy them by the flat from someplace like RST.

Undisturbed chambers and forcing cones especially in vintage SxS's keep the value of the shotgun in tact.
Way more than alterations do that might make a 'shooter' out of it.
On an English made vintage gun,,any bbl alteration is near life w/o parole from the SxS community as the gun is now 'Out of Proof' .
You'll be chased from the village by angry crowds of damascus bbl toting hoodlums.

Yes many of the short chambers guns have gobbled up plenty of modern 2 3/4 loads over the years, and will continue to do so.
The 'If it Fits, shoot it' school is alive and well all over.
357's in a 38spl,,if it fits
3" 12ga in a 2 3/4" chamber. They fit and go off just fine. The 3" shell is 2 3/4" iin length loaded. Why wouldn't it 'fit' in a 2 3/4" chamber. It's where that extra length has to go when it's fired.

Some guns can take it,,most guns can I suspect.
But why do that when proper ammo of correct length and proper chamber PSI for the era of the gun when it was built is available.

I'm with S&WChad and 2152 on this one. Buy you some 2 1/2" shells or have the chambers lengthened. Don't bust that beautiful stock.

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Charlie

Charlie I will definitely try putting a fired 2 3/4" in before firing.
I see no reason to risk....even if remotely any damage.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

John love your posts and the detail you put into them. I appreciate it Sir.

I'm waiting for the "card" on it.

The barrels can be read....pretty easily in this case. Rest assured it will be well taken care of on my watch.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726