I just finished breakfast and reading the Wall Street Journal. I saw an article in the paper today that said Remington will file for bankruptcy for a second time in two years. Says their debt has accumulated to almost 3/4 of a billion and they are just too far gone to continue to operate.

They also stated that the Navajo Nation is considering purchasing the Company's assets. If they do so, they would be prudent to move the Company out of NYS (definitely not a gun friendly State and bring it out west. If they purchase the assets - they are starting anew and free from debt - so they at least have some what of a chance.

The MAIN THING is that they will need the current Company's prime employees and supervisors to go with them so they do not go through another few years of substandard quality, faulty guns and production problems. I fear if they just move out there without knowledgable employees Remington will just be a Company of the past.

Unless someone else steps up to the plate, that's the way it seems to be heading right now. I do not know if Marlin is part of the bankruptcy and the deal too - the article only mentioned Remington name.

Sad news indeed. If a gun company can’t make money today there are serious problems with their business model.

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“Look life in its iron face”

Yep. Sad, but not surprising. The big money anti-2A folks know the very best way to kill a firearms company: Buy it cheap, load it up with unsustainable debt, take your own money out... and then sit back and watch it crumble.

Either that or liquidate. Maybe the Chinese might be interested in a purchase, they are buying up everything else.

Interesting !
I also would expect the Navajos to move it West.
Probably somewhere in Arizona.
Ruger is in Prescott.
I’m thinking on the Big Rez but near a town, like near Flagstaff.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

This sounds familiar. Seems it's been happening to a much larger entity for a few decades. Can't quite remember which one...

Remington has not been a quality company for many years since the Cerebus take over - terrible quality control [ especially rimfire ammo ] + poor customer service in all aspects -

The times keep somehow getting stranger. Remington has had some good products, I like my old R-1 and Model 700. A friend of mine named his daughter Remington.

Wall Street Journal reported today that Remington is planning to enter bankruptcy again. Their first bankruptcy was in 2018. This one is reported to be a Chapter 11 filing, so somebody can buy them out of it. The strongly rumored buyer is the Navajo Nation. Sounds like a good fit to me, far better than Cerebrus, a pure financial investor. There was no report on how a second bankruptcy would affect pending litigation from Sandy Hook class action plaintiffs. We live in a strange financial and legal world where Remington, Colt and Winchester can't remain viable.

I can't believe they aren't rolling in the money right now with all the gun sales and stores like Academy and Cabelas only having about 20% of the guns they normally have. Ammo is almost nonexistent so I'm wondering if Remington hired some of Colt's upper management?

That would be... (drum roll please)... COLT!!!

I hate to see any old line company go belly up specially one like Remington. What has/did management miss?

Now on the other hand my AOBC/S&W stock has tripled in value this year. Hind sight being 20-20 I wish I had purchased more than the few shares I did. Oh-well.

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Always Stay Strong!

Right now the two companies that are doing the best are S&W and Ruger. Both are publicly traded and both have been paying off quite well.

Sig, Beretta, Mossberg, and others seem to be doing okay as well.

Cerebus did to Remington what they did to Chrysler in the past. Strip the companies of talent and assets in order to make it look profitable, then sell it to someone else. Or drive it to the brink of bankruptcy and take a tax loss.

Fortunately, there is no shortage of companies making 1911 and AR pattern rifles. Actually, thinking about it, the shotguns are probably the best products they make.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Nope. Wasn't referring to a commercial venture.

My uncle Mike worked for Remington at the Bridgeport, CT plant from the time he got out of the Army in 1945, until his retirement in about 1977. He bought an old farm up in central Maine so he could raise "Beefalo's" (Beef/Buffalo cross). He had nothing but good to say about the company, and loved working there. Apparently Remington subscribed to about every gun and hunting magazine in the world. When I was a kid, my uncle Mike would give me boxes and boxes of gun magazines, in all languages. Even the ones I couldn't read, I still liked the pictures. Knowing I liked skeet shooting, a couple cases of shotshells every Christmas.

He was friends with a guy named Dick Dietz, and I had the pleasure of shooting skeet, and a couple sit down suppers at my Uncles house with Mr. Dietz, talking guns and hunting of course. At the time, I didn't know what a legend he was.

Back then, Remington maintained a trap & skeet range on the shore of Long Island Sound, and I spent a lot of time there as a kid and a young man shooting skeet, and enjoying the club house cheeseburger special afterwords. The club was shut down by the state of ct after lead shot became a big issue.

Bridgeport, once a vibrant city when I was a kid in the 1960's, became an armpit (and still is), and Remington moved out, leaving behind their huge, historic manufacturing plant and offices. Sitting abandoned for years, the final insult came a few years back. I was fishing a blue fish derby in Long Island Sound with some friends, when we seen a huge smoke cloud rising over Bridgeport. Heard it was the Remington factory burning. The fire department contained it so it wouldn't spread, and let the plant burn to the ground. A sad ending, but in a way fitting that I was there to see it. Just reminiscing after reading the latest bankruptcy news.

Larry

Didn't they build a new plant in Alabama? Maybe they should move their whole op down there.

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Release the Kraken

NOT so fast, folks. This is from an email list I subscribe to. Excerpt from the source news article, followed by the publisher's commentary in italics.....

The Navajo Nation—a territory with roughly 175,000 people across parts of Utah, Arizona, New Mexico – could finalize a bid for Remington as soon as Friday, one of the people said. Any bid for the company would be subject to competing offers and require bankruptcy-court approval. The timetable could be pushed back, and an offer from the Navajo Nation isn’t guaranteed to materialize, people familiar with the matter said. Despite cutting some $775 million in debt through the 2018 bankruptcy, Remington has continued to face high interest costs and operational issues, according to people familiar with the matter, and expensive litigation surrounding the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting... Remington previously filed for chapter 11 in March 2018, transferring ownership from Cerberus Capital Management LP to creditors, including Franklin Resources Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. Franklin remains the company’s largest shareholder, people familiar with the matter said. The Navajo Nation and Franklin didn’t respond to requests for comment. Remington and JPMorgan declined to comment... (Navajo Nation has the second-highest tribal membership in the US and the largest reservation, making it a significant Democratic plantation. Back in 2018, when it made a failed bid to purchase Remington, NY Times noted: “The Navajo Nation’s plan for Remington was novel: It intended to shift the company away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of the AR-15-style weapons frequently used in mass shootings [sic], to focus on police and defense contracts. The tribe planned to use profits from those businesses to invest in research and development of advanced “smart guns” – those with fingerprint or other technology intended to prevent anyone but the gun’s owner from using the weapon. Smart guns have so far failed to make much headway at the major gun manufacturers, which have faced pressure from groups like the National Rifle Association.”)

My A/C installer is full-blood Navajo (Dine' is preferred) from Window Rock. I told him when they get the company they'll be profitable making 5 guns. 1) Remington 1890 S/A revolver. It's simple and a robust design. "made in America by "Original" Americans 2) Model 700's. Scrap all the "$250 package with boresighted scope" nonsense. A week's pay ain't too much for a rifle that will last several lifetimes. 3) 1911 of some kind, quality build without Les Baer price. 4) "Upscale" that $199 .380acp. It looks like a Rohrbaugh but it ain't. Make a 7-8 shot 9mm like the original Rohrbaugh for $5-$600. 5) A 12 ga shotgun, 870 or 1100 with metal innards. Last 870 I got had a completely plastic fire control group. Dat ain't happenin'.
Remember, the aforementioned screed is for entertainment and totally FMA so "scorching dogpile" for S&G's only. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Wow! You'd think with all the **** going on today that they could concentrate on home defense shotguns and probably wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand for them from their vendors.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Not a big loss anyway as they made some sloppy stuff since they were bought out last. The new Marlins are junk and they just ruined a good rifle when they bought them out and closed the plant. Looks like if the Navajo buy out would just finish them off. Good news is there are plaenty of goos older Remingtons and Marlins out there.

About 10 years ago I got the itch to buy a new rifle, I was looking at the Remington 700 and the then new Winchester M70, being made in the SC plant. I went with Winchester, I like the rifle.

I've since read production has been moved to Portugal. I'm not sure when that happened but is disappointing to find out, and that firearm companies feel that can't build quality products here.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Remington had a gun factory near Paducah KY, but I think it was closed several years back. It shouldn't be too difficult to find a buyer for the Remington ammunition factory just east of Little Rock (Lonoke).

Around 15 years ago I was a regular visitor to the Lonoke plant. It had lots of modern equipment, but had (and was still using) some old machinery that looked like it dated back to the UMC days.

I'm far from a Remington fan but think the idea of a gun factory on the Navajo Rez is a great idea. AZ is a gun friendly state. The Sandy Hook type lawsuit things would be history since the Rez is a sovereign nation. It would be near a railroad so shipping logistics are a non-issue. There's lots of people there looking for work. Sounds good to me.

Sure if you are into buying smart guns.

No one that follows this forum will be better off with the loss of this great
old company. I hope Big Green survives and flourishes in the future .

Read again exactly what I wrote. You are misquoting me.

Navajos are smart people. They work on stringing "short term objectives" together to change their future. If'n they get the company they will make money. "Smart guns" ain't part of that. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Didn't they hire Taurus's ex CEO recently? I think I remember reading that. Probably not the best choice, but maybe he came cheap.

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Or something like that . . .

Its not a NY problem. Its the fact that most everything they made in the past 15 years or so was junk. I won't even buy Remington ammo or brass.

The ammunition factory had been abandon for years. It was in decay and poor shape as it was. The homeless moved in and for whatever reason kept having fires, they put them out. The las major fire did lots of damage and all the buildings were razed but they kept the shot tower. The shot tower can is seen from I-95 in Bridgeport. I had some old photos of signs on the plant marked UMC Remington at one time.

Bridgeport also allowed removal of the GE buildings that were not far from the Remington plant. They were built in WW1 by Remington and made lots of arms including the famous Mosin rifles and lots of other famous items. These buildings were a complex of well spaced brick structures. A very unique look to them. You can find pictures online I'm sure. Reminded me of toasters in a row.

Time moves on I guess, the city is a perfect example of an old industrial city in the USA.

Bridgeport is a fascinating city, from sewing machines to firearms, and yes even Father Panik Village (yes google it). PT Barnum lived in B-Port I think on Iranistan Ave. Thompson made machine guns, Jenkins made valves for the world.

Smart guns? Right now they can't make smart paper towel dispensers for the men's rooms in the PA Turnpike plazas.

Firearms is just another Industry that is "circling the drain" due to the political climate in America. I also heard a month ago that S&W's parent Co. intends on dumping its firearms division. Even though S&W has managed to show a profit, the parent Co. (American Outdoor Brands Co.) wants out of the firearms business due to popular demand of stock holders.

.... like 'Start Making Good Guns Again'.

I disagree about one thing, though. They need to move SOUTH.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Remington is a sad story. When I was growing up Remington was the default choice now I would never buy anything Remington.

...that they didn't need consumer products because they had so many government contracts. That was great for them. For a while.

Wonder why they picked now to come out with the new Python when people were beating the doors down for years to get new ones? A sudden re-interest in guns civilians might buy?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Maybe collectively we should all buy a LOT of shares.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

That's the old 'American business' oxymoron.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Lots of quality criticism here for an industry that makes products that last 2 and 3 hundred years with each year of age it becomes more valuable. Currently laws permit public to sue over something built 100 years ago and used in a crime. Would you like to be liable for something your friends grandchildren did? After all you have introduced them 75 years ago. Without that introduction they “might not be here” . Who could navigate a company playing under these rules ? This isn’t Remington’s problem it’s our problem . We allow this .

Without me looking didn't they undergo a leveraged buyout?

It can be difficult for any company to survive an LBO in the best of times.

Once the capital reserves are gone, the debt service eats the remains. While certain bankers walk away with all the meat leaving the bones behind.

If you like books you can read When the Machines stopped. If you like movies a more comical look is Other Peoples Money with Danny Devito. I do realize these are one side views on the subject to make capitalism look bad.

Remington was moving to Huntsville Alabama a few years ago. They signed agreements and did move the AR 15 Bushmaster brand to Huntsville and made some of the pistols. Like others have said, the Remington 1911 had a price tag like there were Les Baer models. Here is a snapshot local article from a year ago about number of people in the plant and the failure to deliver on the "goods". They were calming 2000 jobs when they moved to Hunsville. This is a good article showing what happen went the company is not a gun manufacturing vacility, but just a bean counter company full of greed and no desire to maintain the 200 year history of the company. It is sad.

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — Gunmaker Remington confirmed Tuesday reports out of New York that it planned to furlough workers at some its plants, including Huntsville.

The company’s deal with Alabama and local governments in 2014 included nearly $70 million in incentives. But the State of Alabama is looking to get some money back.

The Alabama Department of Commerce released a statement Thursday about working with Remington:

“We have been in discussions with Remington’s leadership over the past months regarding the company’s market challenges and the reduced demand across product lines they are experiencing as a result. This has had an impact on growth projections for the Huntsville manufacturing facility. After a comprehensive review of the existing project agreement between the State of Alabama and Remington, we have initiated a recapture process outlined in the agreement regarding incentives tied to certain project job-creation milestones.

“As stated earlier, the State disallowed Remington’s final $3 million cash incentive payment for failing to meet specified jobs and payroll targets. In addition, Remington has recently repaid the State more than $500,000 for falling short of workforce targets. In light of the company’s upcoming plans for furloughs, we will continue to monitor Remington’s current employment and payroll status to determine the appropriate course of action for the State.”

A Remington spokesman told WHNT News 19 Thursday that the company was still finalizing its plans for furloughs and details were still being worked out.

But, the company told the state of Alabama on Tuesday that 199 workers would be furloughed – basically excused from work without pay – from June 3 to August 2, the Department of Commerce said.

It’s not clear how many workers would be on the job at the Huntsville site during that period. When pressed, Remington wouldn’t disclose how many people it currently employs in Huntsville.

The last figure the State of Alabama has is 450 workers, as of December 2018.

That number is slightly higher than the job target Remington has to meet to avoid default in its revised agreement with the City of Huntsville. The original agreement called for 1,000 workers locally at the end of 2018.

A spokeswoman for Huntsville said today they have not been provided any official information about furloughs and they don’t comment on speculation.

The furloughs are scheduled to start Monday

The Alabama Department Commerce said today is providing the company and furloughed workers assistance information for the furlough period. The workers are eligible to collect unemployment benefits.

That reminds me of the old Remington Peters ammunition factory in Kings Mill, near Cincinnati. It is next to the bike trail and rode past it frequently. I think someone turned it into condos

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Common sense isn't so common.