Howdy,

I've recently built my first AR platform rifle(PWS,MK111 piston upper BCM lower). I have always been an AK guy, but have felt the need to have a rifle in the truck given the current climate. Hence the build of the AR. Well I wanted to put the AR in the truck only its really growing on me and the upgrades I've already done to it so maybe its better fit for the house(it will run suppressed)? Maybe the AK should ride in the truck(zastava M92 PAP)?

Thoughts opinions greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Erik

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This is the way....

Suppressed Stribog with pistol brace. It has a 30 round magazine and with 124 gr. Speer Lawman Sub-sonic it is almost Hollywood quiet. I believe any pistol caliber carbine to be superior in the house to an AK or AR.

Free advice is often worth what you paid.

Take the AR into the house when you aren’t on the road?

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Some Might Say.

Erik, do you find your piston AR very front heavy?

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Release the Kraken

.30 cal M1 carbine is very handy.

Never heard of a Stribog SP9A1.

Just hit up YT and their pretty cool, and around 1/2 the price of the competition type weapon. Kinda odd looking, but if they work.

Have you put many rounds thru your's?

Are they ammo sensitive?

I might be a lone voice in the wilderness but rifles have no place in urban home defense UNLESS THEY ARE IN PISTOL CALIBERS. Wait! Bro Dave said that already!

Now, it's totally true that when you need it any gun you have will do but if you're planning home defense weapons long range cartridges are just wrong.

Personally, I am going to get an AR pistol (I have a terrible prejudice against AKs despite knowing how great they are as a battle weapon - purely personal - YMMV as always) because I like the AR platform and because I can get one right now before the ATF changes its mind. That is a gun I would consider as a car or truck gun but at home it won't even be available - locked in the safe is where it shall be.

We discussed rioters in another thread. I admit that if I have to defend my home OUTSIDE the premises then a rifle in a rifle caliber is a choice I can and would make.

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Come and take it!!

My Grandson just got a 9mm Hi Point rifle for a house gun. He plans on using Giasier safety slugs ammo. It won't penetrate walls and go on to shoot a neighbors window out. Hi Point is cheap, reliable and lifetime warranted.
SWCA 892

IMHO, over penetration of 5.56 vs. handgun calibers (especially from carbines) is not nearly as much of a problem for defensive use as is the muzzle blast/concussion/flash of 5.56, especially out of short barrels.

5.56 with expanding/fragmenting projectiles is a really effective fight stopper, but the cost can be permanent hearing damage when fired indoors if unsuppressed.

IMHO any .30 cal rifle cartridge is overkill for home defense. I'm a big fan of the .30 Carbine, but it's going to have more penetration than just about any handgun cartridge, and probably more than a 5.56.

An AR pistol/carbine in 9mm can be a good compromise. All the good points of an AR, without the extreme muzzle signature. It won't have the terminal ballistics of the 5.56, but can still be a very effective fighting tool.

I had my SBR AR with a 10.5" barrel on a mat in my living room stripping the bolt while watching a movie.

Put it back together, and loaded 5 rounds in a mag to chamber them by hand to make sure the extractor was cool. Had 5 rounds laying on the floor.

Laid the rifle on the floor and put everything else away. Came back and picked it up by the pistol grip, and like a total idiot moron got my finger on the trigger.

Yes a 5.56 is most loud unsuppressed shot thru a 10.5" barrel.

I swear it was like the magic bullet when JFK got shot. It went under the couch, carved a path thru my laminate floor to the concrete slab, ricocheted back up and went into the wall behind the couch without ever touching the couch. Then thru the drywall and into the block wall. I held my breath when I opened the front door to see if it went all the way thru the block...it didn't.

I was also lucky it hit the floor right next to the tile foyer. I kept several pieces of the flooring in case I ever needed it. Was simple to fix.

Thanks for sharing that. Anyone can make a mistake.

I'm waiting for approval from the state of Illinois to pick up my Rossi 357 lever action. It's been 4 days. I hear 6 is average. I hate Illinois.
That said, I should get a lot of use from the Rossi. My neighborhood is pretty safe but with today's social climate I can see keeping this in the car. I like the fact that lever guns can function with the full spectrum of loads, from lightly loaded squibs all the way to full power magnums. Even shot shells. Being a reloader I can do that.
Now if the dang government will get off their red tape maybe I'll get my gun. I'm getting it now in case things get worse.

Like the M1 carbine, a mini-14 or mini-30 make good house guns also as they are short and easy to handle. My mini-14 is my house gun and truck gun and use it quite often for groundhogs here on the farm.

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The finest house gun you can have isn't a rifle, it's a SHOTGUN. It is the most devastating weapon you can employ and the potential for over penetration is less than either handgun or rifle.

I'll also note that Erocksmash should NOT keep his truck gun in his truck overnight unless it's locked up in a garage. Because odds are quite good that at some point his truck will et broken into.

Truck is always in the garage over night, i never leave weapons in vehicles overnight... i watched my brother learn the hard way twice...

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This is the way....

can't say i notice a difference of it being front heavy....

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This is the way....

Hotdam you got lucky there sir, I was thinking about feeding the rifle a subsonic frangible diet...

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This is the way....

Thank you for sharing that story. Scares the hell out of me as I know, no matter how careful we all try to be accidents can and will happen. In the firearms game those accidents are pretty much always a big deal. You were fortunate and still think about all the damage to the house! How were your ears after that experience?


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My working assumption is a truck gun makes it more likely that vehicles will be involved- 7.62x39 is formidable blend of attributes relative to such cover. The round also covers out to 100 yards well, especially without the drop of a 9mm.

With one added proviso.....make it the M1A1 version (Paratrooper with the folding stock) In the foreground in the picture...............

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I like the M1 Carbine, too. Mine has traveled a lot of miles in various vehicles and still rides the range, so to speak. Maybe it’s just my imagination (probably is) but I think these guns have “a more politically acceptable visual signature” than AR15s. In that regard, I don’t see much to choose between an AR and an AK.

Since you prefer the AK, unless you have a lot of money in it, I would keep it in the location you think you’re most likely to need it. If you live in an area where over-penetration is a concern, then the AR with expanding bullets is the obvious choice.

I still like having a shotgun handy around the house .

+1 I don't think that I have never had a shotgun in the house that had not been readily deployable.

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You mean something like this? Remington 870 MK1 USMC

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

My SHTF; suburban house long gun is a Beretta CX4 9mm carbine with light and red dot...... factory 20 and 30 round magazines. OAL is just 29" and weight is 5.5lbs. Pairs well with a Beretta 92 Centurion. Same magazines

My "truck gun" is a 16" Mini-14 with the new heavy barrel in a Gillie green Hogue stock.....1-3x20 scope w/10rd factory mag and 20 four round factory backups. The 10 round mag is almost flush fit so overall the look is very PC and low profile vs a AR.

The ARs are in the safe for TEOTWAWKI

Was a while ago, but Jeff Cooper (remember him?) advocated a lever action: pistol calibers available; load at the shoulder, reasonably accurate, easy to operate and reliable.

I have the shotgun idea covered with a 590A1, I was thinking about throwing a rifle in the mix. I live out kinda in the sticks. So I needed something to cover past 100yds....

Guess I could always swap the 5.56 upper for a .300BO

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This is the way....

I have my handgun de jour along with a Tac 14. However, I recently picked up a 9mm AR that would be perfect for such duty.

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213th FBINA

For a house "rifle" and truck gun, I opted for an AR-15 braced pistol in 9mm (bottom).

With an 8.3" barrel is launches a 115 gr XTP at 1325 fps with a sound level of just 120 dB at the ear. It's still not hearing safe, but it won't leave you deaf or at risk of significant hearing loss if you fire it in an enclosed space without hearing protection, as would an AR-15 carbine in .223 producing about 162 dB of sound.

The 16" 9mm carbine above it gets 1525 fps with the same load and reduces the sound intensity by half compared to the 8.3" 9mm pistol at 117 dB.

Both will shoot 1 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards (Ballistic Advantage barrels).

The 8.3" pistol with a 125 yard zero is .3" high at 25 yards, the max mid range trajectory is +3.5" at 75 yards. The 4 dots below center in the Burris AR 332's reticle correspond to 135 yards, 155 yards, 175 yards, 195 yards and 220 yards making it very effective at any range where you could reasonably claim an imminent threat was present.

The donut reticle in the AR 332 along with the low magnification also allows you to shoot it with both eyes open at close range like you would a red dot sight. And unlike a red dot sight, the AR332 is a prism sight with the reticle always present, even if the unit isn't on or the battery is dead.

My 9mm AR-15s are also inexpensive to shoot, especially with 115 gr HAP bullets for practice, uses the same hollow point load I use in my EDC handgun, and it's extremely reliable and it's just plain fun to shoot.



I also have the option of adding a QD mounted light placed so that my thumb can easily activate the momentary switch on the end of the light.



The braced pistol AR with an 8.3" barrel and flash can isn't much shorter than a 16" carbine with the stock collapsed, but the advantage of the pistol over the carbine is that in NC (and many other states) a permit to carry a concealed handgun is just that - a permit to carry a *handgun*.

Consequently, I can legally carry a loaded AR-15 pistol in my truck, concealed or otherwise, while I cannot legally carry a loaded AR 15 rifle or carbine in my vehicle.

My "house rifle" is a .12 Ga. pump with extended mag.....

In my opinion, rifles are for defending the pasture.

I think its the wood. My Mini 14 Ranch Rifle doesn't raise an eyebrow from my liberal wife when I walk through the kitchen with it. But she's against me having an "assault" rifle.

I agree with Col Cooper, as mentioned in post #24 that lever guns are a viable option. And like the Mini-14 and M1 carbine, their appearance, to a non-gun person, doesn't make you look like a commando.

Agreed. I own three of them, all with wood stocks. They look less "assaulty" with shorter magazines and even less "assualty" with a traditional looking scope.


And even less threatening without an 'evil' aftermarket flash hider.



The irony of course is that the Mini 14 has a higher cyclic rate than an AR-15, and the Mini 14 can be converted to binary trigger operation with a common business staple in less than 2 minutes.



And with some accurizing will shoot the same 1.5 MOA 5 shot groups as a Colt SP-1 or M16A1 upper.

Not a rifle, but would still work I think. PSA 8.5-inch upper, Endomag, SBA3 brace, Echo II trigger.

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I'll be running some 77gr Hornaday black or TAP as they have branded it, also have some 68gr HPs on the way...

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This is the way....

Suppressed? Have at it.


[/quote]

My friend keeps a Draco in his ride for just such reason. The cartridge is still effective out of the short barrel.

Thank you for the lesson, and the humility to post. As at least one other has asked, did you note any hearing damage....or get checked with an audiologist for any damage? There is some evidence that auditory exclusion can occur during the stress of lethal-force encounter. Perhaps that total surprise at the shot helped protect your ears, also?

Great info in that post.....BUT.....

WHAT are your two posted examples, or are they your own builds?
Also, what is the maker of that gorgeous stock on the top-pictured Mini-14?

For the truck...folding stock AK.... 7.62x39 is 101% better at getting into vehicles and through windshield glass than a .223 round...

With the folding stock the rifle can be put in a small tennis racket style bag for covert moving in and out of the vehicle. It is also way easier to maneuver an underfolder than a carbine...

Was thinking about a AK "pistol" but when Glock brought out the 40/10mm Longside it met all of my needs... The 10mm is one of the better guns for getting into vehicles and can be deployed much faster than a rifle trough a car door window. The Underwood Xtreme Penetrator ammo runs a solid copper bullet at 1600+ fps. Also have a Streamlight 800 lumen light/laser on board. The whole thing fits into a Bagmater Vertical Carry Pouch that straps to the middle seatbelt. With the armrest folded down it is completely out of sight...

Bob

Auditory exclusion is not always reported, but I have experienced it so it does happen. My understanding is that it is a psychological phenomena, not physiological, so there is no actual "protection".

I wouldn't want to count on it with noise at 160+ dB anyway...

3 times i can remember discharging my weapon in a stressful situation, 1. Back when I worked for the DOC they taught us to fire a warning shot (12ga) into the ground if inmates were getting to close to the interior Perimeter fence and not complying, hearing was rather unaffected 2. coyotes we going after my dog fired 3 shot of Underwood 124gr GD +P+ with my hearing un affected and 2times shooting a rabid bobcat in the back yard. With hearing rather un affected... maybe the quick little adrenaline dump has something to do with that....

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This is the way....

I have a Kel-Tec RDB with a Trijicon reflex (no batteries) loaded with SP ammo as a house rifle. But I'm in the country, and cougar and black bear are threats as well. My wife can't handle a true "bear gun" but bruins can certainly be stopped by 5.56 SPs...just ask the Inuit.

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Psalm 27:2

Just thinkin out loud here about the subject and wondering if anyone has any thought or experience with an AR pistol with the arm brace in 300 Blackout, subsonic ammo with a suppressor?

MTC(SS), my thought exactly.
Also not to be shunned is a JM Marlin 1894 stoked with .44 specials.
10 rounds of those should solve a social problem.

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“Look life in its iron face”

While I have shown some M1 Carbines and a M870 Mk1, these would be used from a fixed position. Since there is just my wife, myself and the cats in the house, my plan of attack is just keep us in the bedroom on the side of the bed away from the door. The wife to call 911 on a cell, and I will cover the door. Bad guys coming through the door are obviously funneled into my muzzle.

Tactics guys, these can save your's and your families lives.

Thirty-Forty years ago I would have taken my M1911A1 as I was trained to do as a member of a Fleet Anti-Terrorist Security Team and have gone hunting in the house.

Different ages different tactics.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Call me old-fashioned, but if I were going to use a Rifle for Home Defense, (I use a Pump Shotgun) then I would opt for a Lever Action Rifle chambered in low pressure handgun cartridge like .44 Special or .45 Long Colt.

Thanks for sharing this cautionary tale. Lesser men would be too ashamed to admit it for fear of ridicule, but it happens. My mother once put a .380 ACP through the living room floor while unloading her Taurus TCP because she was distracted by thoughts of a sickly family member. Worse yet, I myself came too close for comfort of putting a .40 through my bedroom wall about a month ago. Fortunately, I caught myself being stupid, allowing my mind to wander, so thankfully it didn't happen, (even if it did it would have just put a hole in my bedroom wall, traveled into an the unoccupied adjacent room, and likely would have been stopped by a bookshelf) but just the thought of it scared me.

Just an important reminder to always keep your mind focused firmly on the task at hand when handling a firearm because even the littlest, most mundane, everyday distractions can result in a potentially deadly accident.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

For those of you opting for a shotgun for a house gun, firing even a 20 gauge indoors without hearing protection will damage your hearing as will many high pressure handgun rounds like 10mm and 357 magnum. Ask me how I know.
I'm sorry repeat that, I didn't hear you.

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SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC

Yes...

With subsonic ammo, the .300BLK is basically a pointy .45ACP. Similar muzzle energy, better ballistics and penetration because of the bullet shape.

In an AR platform, it's easy to shoot: low recoil, low muzzle blast, and you have 30 rounds in a mag. Suppressed, it's very quiet, easily hearing safe.

It is going to penetrate more than a handgun caliber, especially with most commercial loadings. There are a number of videos on YT that show .300BLK subs defeating soft body armor.

For home defense I would choose an AR platform in 9mm over .300BLK, mostly due to the commercially available defensive ammo in 9mm being better suited to that task.

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That you are concerned about folks hearing if they fire a gun in a confined space is a good thing. However, hearing protection is the last thing I would be looking for if I was defending my home.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

.30 Carbine with soft-point ammo has solved a lot of problems over the years.
So does a 9mm carbine
I would never consider using a full rifle cartridge for indoor defense unless nothing else was available. That includes full-powered .44 Magnum as well.

I have a couple ARs and a few shotguns but for home defense when I want more than a handgun I typically grab my Rossi M92 .357 Magnum. Even with the 20" barrel it is extremely light and fast handling and I can shoot it one handed while opening a door, I love the little gun.

The top one started life as a PSA 16" carbine. However, all that's left is the lower and the bolt. I put a RRA 9mm upper on it along with a 16" ballistic advantage barrel and a new free float rail. I also installed a heavier buffer.

The PSA barrel had horrible accuracy, I didn't like the lack of a dust cover on the upper, and the buffer was too light and had a habit of breaking BHOs.

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The bottom one started life as a PSA 10.5" pistol. I added a free float tube to improve the accuracy, but ultimately put a shorter 8.3" barrel on it. The RRA 10.5" barrel is "10.5" by .223 standards and ends up being longer as the 9mm doesn't use a barrel extension, so the barrel ends up being about 11 1/4". A shorter, thinner profile barrel and an aluminum flash can saved a lot of weight, with no real loss in performance and an improvement in accuracy.

It also has a Franklin Armory BFS III binary trigger.

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The wood stock and handguard on the darker walnut Mini 14 are made by Revolution and sold by Accuracy Systems.

With the recent unrest, I have kept my 1944 Quality Hardware .30 Carbine handy. I own ARs (rifle, carbines, and pistols) as well as an AK, but the little M1 is something that my wife can manage, and loaded with SP ammo in good mags it will handle the home defense role just fine.

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Only a cold warrior

I bought a Wilson AR9G a while back, before our stupid law about semi-auto rifles took effect. It is set up as much like my BCM AR as possible (Aimpoint Micro RDS, 1000 Surefire flashlight, padded sling). I chose the platform due to the fact that I have a couple of Glock 9mm pistols and thought the interchangeable mags would have value under some conditions. The reality is different. After an initial problem with it (quickly fixed), it has worked well. But: the cost was too high for what I get out of it. With proper duty ammo, the 5.26 is FAR less likely to present a problem with overpenetration in a home than pistol ammo, but is LOUD AF. If you can go with an 11.5 and a can to address the noise, that's a workable choice, but a platform that length with a can needs a quality platform under it (BCM is likely the best) to have proper reliability. If you look at the available information, PLACEMENT is far more of a problem than overpenetration, and a trained shooter with an AR can do better with placement than a pistol shooter almost all the time.

In reality, the Marlin 1894 CSBL in .357 with a replacement fore end and some other goodies that allow it to be somewhat similar to the AR (it has a rail, so the RDS is easy; light and sling to be added) is better value for the $$ and much easier to travel with because as a lever gun it will attract less attention. There is a good string on the concept on LF. I have almost all I need for this project except the rifle, a matter for another string.

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NHI, 10-8.

If you have a shotgun load it up with Trap/Skeet loads and you are all set for in-house defense. Since we are talking long guns, this is better than any rifle for the home.
If you do not have a shotgun, get a pump or auto. This is money well spent. Good luck and my hopes that you never have to use it.