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  #51  
Old 07-15-2020, 12:34 PM
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My problem was the screw head was covered by the extractor. I had zero experience removing M17 extractors.
I also think that removing the extractor on a P320 is a real cinch. Push in the plunger, slide out the retention plate and take out the spring and two part extractor. Still, if one isn't comfortable doing these things, it is better to have a Sig armorer do them.
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Old 07-15-2020, 04:06 PM
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Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.
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  #53  
Old 07-15-2020, 07:44 PM
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Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.

Excuse me for maybe pointing out my lack of knowledge but was your Sig p320 sent in for the upgrade? Or voluntary recall?
My p320 had a narrow blade trigger installed from the factory recall.


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Old 07-15-2020, 08:29 PM
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Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.
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  #55  
Old 07-15-2020, 09:27 PM
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Excuse me for maybe pointing out my lack of knowledge but was your Sig p320 sent in for the upgrade? Or voluntary recall?
My p320 had a narrow blade trigger installed from the factory recall.


Papa
Yep. The picture is from before I sent it in.
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  #56  
Old 07-16-2020, 12:38 PM
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Well hell. I just upped my going-to-Denver-or-Aurorastan gun to my .357 Sig P320. Since I carry everything in the waistband oriented toward the twig & berries I may swap back to the mighty Colt .32 Pocket Hammerless. At least it will only go off by itself if I drop it.

I hope they sort this out.
Yeah, I guess I'll stand by to stand by. Swapped over to my Legion P229 in .357, and if I need thinner I have my P239 in the same caliber. The P320 is unloaded and in the safe until they sort this out. Sad because I LOVE the P320.
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:54 PM
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The plot thickens with another P320 AD yesterday in Milwaukee.
MPD gun manufacturer linked to lawsuits over unintended shootings
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2020, 10:06 AM
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The plot thickens with another P320 AD yesterday in Milwaukee.
MPD gun manufacturer linked to lawsuits over unintended shootings
Well, it must be true, it was on the news on a local tv station. 8^) So much these days are settled by public opinion before all the facts are in.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:30 PM
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Whether or not it should, this story interests me. I reached out yesterday to a cop I know, large state agency, p320 is their issue weapon. I ask him if he's seen this latest flap over the the 320. He says he has not. So I run it down to him a little, the lawsuit, the latest AD in the news.

First thing he says?

We had one go off in the holster too!
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:38 PM
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I have two P320s (“M17” versions), both of which were manufactured after the voluntary recall thing. I always try to take note of things other shooters say about firearms I am interested in, but unless I see the evidence myself the reports are not stored in the “firsthand-knowledge database.”

Based on what I know, I am not concerned about MY P320s. I feel like I can depend on them, unless they do something that indicates otherwise. So far, nothing like that observed.
I have a P320 that underwent the voluntary recall but still i dont think i would carry it with a round in the chamber. I wish I had the M17 with the army mandated manual safety. With the manual safety engaged, then I would feel comfortable with a round in the chamber. Not as safe as with my beretta 92fs with a round in the chamber and the hammer lowered on a chambered round with the safety on. Now that is safe!
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:05 PM
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Just saw a couple of updates on this model. One is that I found out that another Sgt. friend flatly prohibits them at his agency (and that's among his duties and authority) based on the same kinds of reports I referred to earlier in this string. I also saw that there have been two recent documented in holster discharges that were NOT NDs, but ADs. One was in a clearly secured holster during a fight with a resistant suspect (who could not have gotten to the trigger) (Milwaukee PD, IIRC); another was a fed with an also secured holster. I know of the sources of these reports; they are credible (no, I do not belong to ARFcom).
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  #62  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:24 AM
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Just saw a couple of updates on this model. One is that I found out that another Sgt. friend flatly prohibits them at his agency (and that's among his duties and authority) based on the same kinds of reports I referred to earlier in this string. I also saw that there have been two recent documented in holster discharges that were NOT NDs, but ADs. One was in a clearly secured holster during a fight with a resistant suspect (who could not have gotten to the trigger) (Milwaukee PD, IIRC); another was a fed with an also secured holster. I know of the sources of these reports; they are credible (no, I do not belong to ARFcom).
What federal agency is issuing Sig P 320s for duty sidearms?
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:52 PM
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No idea. It could have been an off-duty gun, or a personally owned department authorized pistol. There are well over 100 federal law enforcement agencies. Before someone has a screaming cow about that, federal agencies are not like local agencies - they are generally specialized entities with relatively limited fields of endeavor. The federal government does not have agencies that are general authority and about the only ones you will see that look and act like real cops are folks like rangers in the big national parks. Most feds are criminal investigators, the 1811 job classification. They are not radio slaves who go to every unfortunate call that there is.
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  #64  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:51 AM
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If the federal agency can't be stated, I'd have to question if the "documented" Sig P320 AD case is valid. Only a few National Park Rangers are armed. The vast majority aren't. Actually, I think your take on federal officers compared to "real cops" is flawed. I know of no federal agency, outside of the military, that issues Sig P 320 pistols.

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  #65  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:25 PM
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If the federal agency can't be stated, I'd have to question if the "documented" Sig P320 AD case is valid. Only a few National Park Rangers are armed. The vast majority aren't. Actually, I think your take on federal officers compared to "real cops" is flawed. I know of no federal agency, outside of the military, that issues Sig P 320 pistols.
ICE issues the P320.
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  #66  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:46 PM
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ICE issues the P320.
Thanks for the information. It looks like Air Marshals, Secret Service and DHS carries the Sig P320, as well. I saw where the Border Patrol is transitioning to the Glock.
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:38 PM
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Except that SIG never recalled the pistol. They offered a "voluntary upgrade" which is WAYYYYYYYYYY different from an urgent safety recall-do not fire or carry this gun until returned to the factory recall. SIG scrupulously avoiding using the word "recall" and specifically stated that it would make the pistol "even more safe" without indicating in any way that there were instances of the gun going off without the trigger being touched. If this is in fact provable, this ranks up with the Pinto exploding gas tank fiasco.
LVSteve in the scenario you posted, I completely agree with your analysis and conclusion, but a careful reading of the allegations contained within the petition indicates, if proven, a lot more at work here-close to an actual cover up. If that is the case I hope SIG gets torn a new one, not for the mistake but for the coverup

I "love it" when company's call it a "campaign"
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:18 PM
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Thanks for the information. It looks like Air Marshals, Secret Service and DHS carries the Sig P320, as well. I saw where the Border Patrol is transitioning to the Glock.
The Air Marshals issue the Sig 229 in .357 Sig for now. Soon to change to the Glock 19. I think the USSS still have 229 .357s, too.

I know DHS put in an order for a slew of 320s. I wouldn’t be surprised if they held off on issuing them.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:29 PM
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The Air Marshals issue the Sig 229 in .357 Sig for now. Soon to change to the Glock 19. I think the USSS still have 229 .357s, too.
I believe USSS will be going to the Glock 19, too, if they haven't started issuing them already.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:34 PM
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The agency was not identified. The fed was just referred to as a fed. As for my take, that's my experience. "Criminal Investigators" under job classification 1811 are not like uniformed radio slaves. Rangers: I meant LE rangers, not the uniformed tour guides. They are different classifications. The LE rangers are 1805s as far as I know.
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Old 08-01-2020, 05:53 PM
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Just to clear up a point, how many for certain, factory modified or new 320's that included the modification, have actually discharged without some operator help.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:00 PM
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Just to clear up a point, how many for certain, factory modified or new 320's that included the modification, have actually discharged without some operator help.
Looks like we'll possibly know the answer, if and when, lawsuits are settled.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:05 PM
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The agency was not identified. The fed was just referred to as a fed. As for my take, that's my experience. "Criminal Investigators" under job classification 1811 are not like uniformed radio slaves. Rangers: I meant LE rangers, not the uniformed tour guides. They are different classifications. The LE rangers are 1805s as far as I know.
I still don't get your point about "real cops". Are you unhappy that you are in a uniformed position within a police department or do you think that officers in soft clothes have it too easy? What does any of it have to do with Sig P 320 pistols and incidents supposedly involving them discharging in holsters without being handled?
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:09 PM
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Neither. A fed "Criminal Investigator" and a local officer have very different duties, a fact not known to most people outside the system. Local cops, more or less, have to deal with everything that comes their way, at least initially. I would not care to be a fed; I liked being a uniformed cop when I did that. Among other things, I rarely had to put up with working dayshift, which is for me the utter armpit of policing. I never voluntarily worked a dayshift.

Feds have very limited authority and duties. I've seen cases with for example, drugs and guns, which are sometimes taken by DEA, some times by ATF, based on criteria internal to the agencies. EPA criminal investigators are very specialized, etc. Federal Criminal Investigators are limited to specific areas, and will not even response to things outside that (topic) area. There are no federal agencies that have the general authority to respond to anything. They tend to have very detailed knowledge about what they do ... but not stuff outside that.
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:56 AM
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Neither. A fed "Criminal Investigator" and a local officer have very different duties, a fact not known to most people outside the system. Local cops, more or less, have to deal with everything that comes their way, at least initially. I would not care to be a fed; I liked being a uniformed cop when I did that. Among other things, I rarely had to put up with working dayshift, which is for me the utter armpit of policing. I never voluntarily worked a dayshift.

Feds have very limited authority and duties. I've seen cases with for example, drugs and guns, which are sometimes taken by DEA, some times by ATF, based on criteria internal to the agencies. EPA criminal investigators are very specialized, etc. Federal Criminal Investigators are limited to specific areas, and will not even response to things outside that (topic) area. There are no federal agencies that have the general authority to respond to anything. They tend to have very detailed knowledge about what they do ... but not stuff outside that.
Myself, having some intimate knowledge on the subject, agree and I think it is a good thing that we don't have a federal police force. Probably the closest thing we have to it is the U.S. Marshals. We'll just have to see how the facts regarding the Sig P320 allegations shake out.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:16 PM
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Yup. Some folks have a cow about so many federal LE agencies, but the reality is that this is a pro-liberty reality. I have a friend at ATF who has been a great resource for various things like the impact of certain court orders that I am assessing for my client agency. She is assigned to a task force in which her limited authority is a problem and it frustrates her. I am helping her think about and spec personal rifle consistent with her needs and capabilities, including that she is very tiny.
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