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Old 07-22-2020, 05:59 PM
Murdock Murdock is offline
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In a LGS I asked the staff what the fastest selling guns have been of late. They said the Glock 19 (no surprise) and defensive shotguns.

When I got home I checked the gavel prices of some online auctions. Wow! Shotguns like my old M37 riot gun with the 20-inch tube and extended magazines have recently gone to over $1300, at least for pristine examples. COVID-19 panic, I guess.

Mine was bought at a gun show maybe 10-12 years ago, and I thought I paid a bit too much at just over $300, although the riot version does always seem to be more scarce than other configurations. I think mine's about 1967 vintage. Bead sight. Parkerized, with some patina, finish thining on some of the edges, handling marks on wood and steel. No engraving or checkering like the sportng guns and some of the police specials. Plain Jane. Good, solid old gun. All it's needed from me was a new magazine spring.

I'd sell it, but it seems to stick to my hand every time I pick it up.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:06 PM
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I'd caution you to test the sear by pointing the weapon downrange and smartly racking a few rounds through the action, being prepared for an unanticipated discharge. We were issued those parkerized M37s in the early 80s (1970s purchase) but retired them because too many would discharge as you chambered a round. They likely had 50-100 rounds per year run through them.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:08 PM
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That is a keeper. Another timeless John Browning design. I have a Winchester 94, a Winchester 97, a Winchester 1885 and several 1911s. All John Browning designs. I just wish I had a 50 caliber machine gun to go with them and the money to by ammo for it. Those police shotguns that went off when racked probably just needed a good complete disassembly cleaning which they never got.

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Old 07-22-2020, 06:24 PM
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I'd caution you to test the sear by pointing the weapon downrange and smartly racking a few rounds through the action, being prepared for an unanticipated discharge. We were issued those parkerized M37s in the early 80s (1970s purchase) but retired them because too many would discharge as you chambered a round. They likely had 50-100 rounds per year run through them.
Have never had that issue with any M37 I have owned, of any vintage. The only mechanical failure has been with 1930's 12-ga skeet model that broke its firing pin during dry fire. Easy fix.

Of course, these will fire when the trigger is held back as the bolt is driven forward, but that's a well-known design feature, and I doubt that's what you are referring to.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:46 PM
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In my country (Argentina), the Ithaca 37 shotgun has been serving in the Federal Police since the 1970s and today continues to be used as a riot weapon, I consider that only a quality weapon can withstand so many years of service.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:57 PM
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I have a few. No finer combat shotgun, IMO.


I'm a sucker for an Ithaca. Had 'em since I was a kid.

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Old 07-22-2020, 07:00 PM
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Oh boy thats my favorite scatter gun of all time !

We used those out at the state DOC (only weapon I fired in the line of duty, inmate got to close to the fence and I cracked a warning shot) and I just fell in love.

I've searched high and low for one like that, but settled on a 590A1 Mossberg... spent so much on the dang 590 she stays in the house..

I just recently last weekend picked up an old shotty (JC model 20, 12ga)for a C-note and went to refinishing and cutting. Ill post about her ina few, but in the meantime I'll throw a photo below... i love bringing these old guns back to life...
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:03 PM
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The 37 is as solid as a 289 Ford or Chev 327...Please.... Ive NEVER had a issue with my 37. Low brass #7 for inside the home please.

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Old 07-22-2020, 07:07 PM
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I have a M37 DeerSlayer. I think it's 70's vintage. It's nice, but the rear sight is fragile. It'll slam-fire!
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:07 PM
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Mine's not a police model...just a plain ol' Model 37 in 20 gauge with a 19-inch barrel, but still a great little home defense gun.
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324 View Post
I'd caution you to test the sear by pointing the weapon downrange and smartly racking a few rounds through the action, being prepared for an unanticipated discharge. We were issued those parkerized M37s in the early 80s (1970s purchase) but retired them because too many would discharge as you chambered a round. They likely had 50-100 rounds per year run through them.
The Model 37 is my favorite fighting shotgun.

When our Director retired the new guy traded in all the Model 37s for 870s, optionally we could buy our 37s. That 37 has been with me for over 30 years now (probably closing in on 40) with many thousands of rounds of ammunition through it.



I liked mine so much I bought a second one 15+ years ago

I know hundreds of happy Model 37 enthusiasts that never had an issue.

If there were some kind of epidemic failure of the 37, there would be plenty of reports about it

The only incident that I recall hearing about a Model 37 discharging when a shell was chambered with no finger holding the trigger back occurred with an old, dirty Model 37 whose oil had gummed up and everything was hard to make work

However, I agree with testing ANY firearm that may be called upon to stake your life on
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:51 PM
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By the mid-80s slamfires were common enough that our armory called the 37s all in. However, I doubt ANY had been fully disassembled for a detailed cleaning ever. We were taught to clean the bore, the bolt where it could be reached, the bolt face & extractor, and to keep the inside portions of the reciever touched by the bolt from getting dry.

They were replaced piecemeal by 870s, S&Ws with a folding stock, and Mossberg 500s. The 870s and Mossbergs were problem-free; the Smiths were unpopular because of the folding stock.

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Old 07-22-2020, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324 View Post
I'd caution you to test the sear by pointing the weapon downrange and smartly racking a few rounds through the action, being prepared for an unanticipated discharge. We were issued those parkerized M37s in the early 80s (1970s purchase) but retired them because too many would discharge as you chambered a round. They likely had 50-100 rounds per year run through them.

They will also fire if you hold the trigger back and close the bolt, or rack the action....which is a deal breaker for me. We had a bunch of them at work, and traded them in for 870's.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:08 PM
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I would have liked a Model 37, but never had one. I think they are still being made by the "new" Ithaca company in Ohio, I don't know anything about those, and don't remember ever seeing one. Also there is an Argentine copy, but I don't know if any of those were sold in the USA.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:11 PM
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I would have liked a Model 37, but never had one. I think they are still being made by the "new" Ithaca company in Ohio, I don't know anything about those, and don't remember ever seeing one.
I believe they're now called the Model 87 and I'm pretty sure the news ones have eliminated the slam-fire issue.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
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I would have liked a Model 37, but never had one. I think they are still being made by the "new" Ithaca company in Ohio, I don't know anything about those, and don't remember ever seeing one. Also there is an Argentine copy, but I don't know if any of those were sold in the USA.
A year or two ago I bought a vent rib barrel with choke tubes for my Dad's 1965 M37 16 ga Deerslayer from the comany's new iteration in Ohio. Quality was as good as ever and the machining was so good that it popped right onto the the older gun. Finish matched perfectly. A tribute to American industry.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:23 PM
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When I bought bought my M37, I was specifically told it would slamfire. The gunshop I bought it from went through it and test fired it. So I know it's not defective/unsafe. I was also told that mine was manufactured just before slamfire feature/sear was discontinued. And this was a Deerslayer not a Police Special.

If it doesn't rain when I get home I'll take some picts.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
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I believe they're now called the Model 87 and I'm pretty sure the news ones have eliminated the slam-fire issue.
Some people really liked the slam fire feature of the older guns. If you can find it on line, Larry Correia wrote a short story called "Sweothi City" where the M37 in riot configuration played a role. It's in his short story anthology Target Rich Environment
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
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Some people really liked the slam fire feature of the older guns.
I've heard that, too. I've read stories of cops holding the trigger back and just cycling the pump to fire the gun. Personally, I'd prefer a gun that only fires when the trigger is pulled. The 37/87 appeals to me because of the bottom ejection. But I'm not really a long gun guy. My only shotgun experience was a 2-hour familiarization course with the 870 back in the 90s. Of course, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to add one to my collection.
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:23 PM
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I have a field grade M37. It has been shot a lot but is still reliable and good shooting shotgun. I would never consider selling a M37.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:14 PM
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Winchester Model 97 and Model 12, Remington Model 10, Model 31 , and Ithaca Model 37 (older ones) do not have a automatic disconnector. Therefore they will continue to fire as long as the trigger is held back and there is shells in the magazine. This is in the design feature and not a malfunction of the weapon.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:34 PM
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Yep, don't hold the trigger unless you want it to go boom.

M37's are great shotguns. I am lucky to have an ex Mississippi Highway Patrol M37 riot that is in the same serial number range as the US Vietnam Contract



A long time ago I owned a M37 DSPS, really nice shotguns
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:51 PM
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Ithaca has a serial number production list online for those wanting to date their shotguns.
Serial Numbers - Ithaca Gun Co.

This oops from Adam 12 is always fun.
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Old 07-22-2020, 11:53 PM
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The prices on most guns in general are nuts. This is a new in the box High standard riot king, with original box and paperwork from 1971. I got it in January for 400 dollars.

You can't find it's like now for less than 800. Smoothest action ever, and takes 6 + 1.

I hope all of these new gun owners are joining the NRA.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:39 AM
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I like the 37. I have only one a 37R (solid rib) 12ga Mod from 1948.
Nice shooter for Skeet.

They have a couple of quirks,
If you reload and shoot them,,a single errant BB can put the gun out of service. A pellet getting loose from a less than perfect reload can pin=ball it's way down into the trigger group.
There's a perfectly angled channel underneath the trigger to give it clearence for movement.
When the trigger is pulled to fire the gun, one of those loose BB's will rolls right down that channel and jam the trigger in the 'pulled' position.
The shooter then ejects the round he/she just fired and closes the action on a fresh round and 'bang' the new round fires....the trigger is held back.

It takes a full disassembly to remove the pellet and get it back working again.

I've seen it happen at least 6 times with the M37. Always with reloads.

Another thing the M37 is sometimes apt to do is release the bolt from the op-rod.
If the action is open,,and the gun is placed butt down on the ground or floor and then for some reason the person/shooter takes the gun and raps the gun sharply on the ground (with the action open),,the op-rod will disengage from the bolt slide&bolt.

It's easy enough to put back together. The spring loaded cross pin is easily seen on the bolt slide when you look at the underside of the action when closed. You take your thumb-nail and pull the cross pin under spring pressure to the side and pull the op-rod back into place. Then release the cross-pin.

Why some of them seem to be able to release the op-rod from the bolt/bolt slide? Just enough taper to the cross pin along with the right amt of slack in the fit-up perhaps.
I don't know.
But it's a surprising look on the face of the shooter when they have a pump slide in hand that works easily back and forth but nothing on the gun responds to it.



We had a local Village PD that carried M37 riot shotguns in the trunks of their cars. This was many yrs ago.
Very little to no maint on the guns.

A call to a violent domestic call one early Sunday AM in the winter. Man armed w/a handgun.
The only 2 Officers on duty responded. They called All Set in a very few minutes after on scene and then one said he'd
be calling me.
Ok I thought,,maybe for times or other compliantants, ect.

When he called he said did anyone call about the gun shot?
I said no,,no one called about any gunshots. Did the guy with the handgun take a shot at you or someone?
He said no,,when he got there, he got the Ithaca out of the trunk of the Patrol Car,,chambered a round and blew a big hole in the ice in the sidewalk.
He said he gently put the shotgun back in the trunk w/o racking the action and closed the trunk!
He said I will never trust one of those again,,ever.
No one ever called about the gun shot..

The man w/a gun at the call was sleeping,,no gun,,wife didn't want the police there,,no fight. Code 40. (Services Rendered).
The M37 left for the PD Armorer (Day Shift Sgt) to 'Clean & Service'
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:57 AM
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I am lucky to own the great-granddaddy of all Ithaca 37's. A 3-digit 37T. One of the first 37's made back in 1937 and one of the few remaining pre-WWII Ithaca 37 trap guns. The recoil pad is new.
Enjoy:

















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Old 07-23-2020, 06:42 AM
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I always wanted an Ithaca Model 37, particularly the "Stakeout" model, but prices as well as the fact that it's an NFA Item kept me from getting one.

Then Mossberg came out with the 590 Shockwave and I was all over that.

Updated Ammoland Study on Pistol Efficacy-mossberg_590_shockwave_fde-jpg

At the time that I purchased it (December 2018) they were in extremely high demand, so I ended up having to special order it and ended up paying somewhere north of $400 OTD, but it was worth it to me.

In the past I had avoided getting a full-size 12 Gauge due to concerns regarding where it could be stored safely yet still be readily accessible, not to mention concerns regarding maneuverability inside the relatively cramped quarters of the hallway/stairwell, but the Shockwave solved both issues at once.
Previously I had settled on the Taurus Judge Magnum due to it being the closest thing to a small shotgun that I could legally own.

Shot loads...-taurus_judge_magnum-jpg
Not nearly as bad as some folks seem to think, but it ain't no 12 Gauge.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:17 PM
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Were did you get the recoil pad from? Ithaca in Ohio or another place
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Old 07-23-2020, 03:47 PM
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Nice one, Bushmaster. My skeet grade is not quite so fancy, or well maintained, but I couldn't resist it. It's a 1948.
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Last edited by Murdock; 07-23-2020 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Corrected wrong issue date for the gun.
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Old 07-23-2020, 05:13 PM
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My father-n-law was an avid upland game hunter that liked the model 37, especially in 16 ga. This old song was also a favorite of his and makes me think of him whenever it's played.

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Old 07-23-2020, 06:05 PM
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Were did you get the recoil pad from? Ithaca in Ohio or another place
Gunsmith who fitted the pad (Sycamore Hill Designs) shopped around for one. Had to be large. Galazan used to have them.

For my Ithaca singel barrel trap gun I scarfed an old Jostam on eBay and had it fitted by a gunsmith (Diamond Gunsmithing).

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Old 07-23-2020, 06:09 PM
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I'd caution you to test the sear by pointing the weapon downrange and smartly racking a few rounds through the action, being prepared for an unanticipated discharge. We were issued those parkerized M37s in the early 80s (1970s purchase) but retired them because too many would discharge as you chambered a round. They likely had 50-100 rounds per year run through them.
This may not be a problem with the sear. The model 37 was originally designed without a disconnector and due to this had the ability to Slam Fire if you held the trigger down.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:44 PM
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I’ve had issues with 37s going off upon racking in a shell. The issue was gunk. The 37 not being as handy to strip as the newer clunks like 870 and 500 Moss ends up never cleaned deep. People come home use WD or such on their guns, stand them in gun case and all dissolved gunk ends up in running gears. The 37 is not tolerant of shoddy handloads. The Ohio made gun is the 37. The 87 Ithaca was their improved model nobody wanted, just like Rem 11-87. The 37 is in top three pumps ever built. Win 12, Rem 31 and Ith 37. All three of these guns will last forever if properly maintained. I have had to work on pumps and auto shotguns that were bought new by returning WW2 vets. It’s unbelievable how much gunk can be in these guns before they fail. Most of these guns are well taken care of as far as external and bore cleaning. I wish I had kept a 8shot 37 but I was into A5s.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:26 PM
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The old Ithaca 37 is one of what I consider the “big three” classic all-purpose shotguns. The others being the Model 12 and the 870 (well, older 870s).
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:22 PM
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I used to hunt with an old guy who had been a machine gunner on Okinawa. He always deer hunted with an Ithaca Deerslayer. He was good with it. He told me that the Ithaca 37 was prized for perimeter security around the machine gun. When i asked him why the Ithaca, he looked at me like i was "a bit touched" and replied,"cause they dont give no trouble". Great guy.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:29 PM
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In the mid-1990s my LGS acquired and was liquidating a passel of Wells Fargo surplus guns. Winchester 97s, S&W M10s, and Ithaca M 37s. All for around 150 bucks each!

Not knowing how much I would like and need a Winchester M97 for cowboy action shooting it was a few years before I acquired such guns and I paid dearly for it. However, when the dust settled I had a tricked out Model 97 in 16 gauge and I learned to be pretty quick with it. It survived the fire of 2018 and is in my safe presently.

The handguns I acquired went to my then wife; no big deal - I didn't need any of those and I have moved way past them.

My best buy was an Ithaca M37. It has been my go to house shotgun for 25 years now. I just freaking love that shotgun.

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Old 07-23-2020, 09:43 PM
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My 1st model 37 was sold to buy a color tv for my new bride. Never got over it. Have another that is a twin of that one. Picked up a Chinese copy of the 37, don't recall the model #, it's stored in back room gun safe. It is a look alike only, the parts don't interchange but it is good shooting and has 18" barrel. Would be my go-to house gun if felt need for more fire power.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
This may not be a problem with the sear. The model 37 was originally designed without a disconnector and due to this had the ability to Slam Fire if you held the trigger down.
Half true.

The original model 37 lockwork is functionally identical to the Winchester model 12 with a stud on the hammer engaged by a hook on the slide release lever. The bolt carrier hits an interior arm on the slide release lever, releasing the hammer. A secondary sear and trip lever like most any hammer fired full auto.

A model 37 "without a disconnector," as was commonly sold in the sporting models and sometimes mistakenly in the riot guns, will not "slam fire." The hammer will harmlessly follow the bolt. The only thing actually missing is the stud on the hammer. Everything else is the same.

Model 37 experts say there are at least two versions of the lockwork that functions like an 870 or 1200.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:30 PM
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If we going to talk scattergun music, it is Junior Taylor - “shoot a boy and run now... Do the Jack Benny...“

My favorite starring role for the Ithaca 37 is making the “Shotgun Ed” Nickname in LA Confidential.
Plenty of gunplay and faux violence -

Last edited by HardToHandle; 07-23-2020 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Spell correct
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:15 AM
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The old Ithaca 37 is one of what I consider the “big three” classic all-purpose shotguns. The others being the Model 12 and the 870 (well, older 870s).
Don’t get me wrong, the above are great shotguns. Especially the Ithaca, with its bottom ejection and quick pointing. The two negatives to the Ithaca are that too much tightening to the stock bolt will crack the sides of the stock right behind the receiver and in order to load directly into an empty chamber you must first rack the action all the way back and then a little bit forward so the two lifter arms will be clear of the chamber.

However, to me, the Remington 31 is the best of all the classic pump shotguns. But to each their own.
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  #41  
Old 07-24-2020, 09:44 AM
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50 + year old DSPS - until this thread i have never seen or heard of any serious problem with the model 37 - standard issue for LAPD + numerous other agencies for decades - U.S. military issue , WWII + thousand sent to [ and left in ] Vietnam - every LEO + military personnel that used them considered the lack of trigger disconnector on Ithaca + Winchesters an asset + not a problem -
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
I am lucky to own the great-granddaddy of all Ithaca 37's. A 3-digit 37T. One of the first 37's made back in 1937 and one of the few remaining pre-WWII Ithaca 37 trap guns. The recoil pad is new.
Enjoy:

















topic was M37 riot guns - only trap + skeet champions i know of used single or double barrel Ithaca's -
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:17 PM
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I know a nice Yankee Lad who is a Ithaca College grad.
When I see him wearing his Ithaca Sweatshirt,
I always say, what a Great College!
It’s The only college I know that made its own Shotguns!
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:27 PM
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I know a nice Yankee Lad who is a Ithaca College grad.
When I see him wearing his Ithaca Sweatshirt,
I always say, what a Great College!
It’s The only college I know that made its own Shotguns!
Well, those college students do know how to party with their shotguns...


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Old 07-24-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
50 + year old DSPS - until this thread i have never seen or heard of any serious problem with the model 37 - standard issue for LAPD + numerous other agencies for decades - U.S. military issue , WWII + thousand sent to [ and left in ] Vietnam - every LEO + military personnel that used them considered the lack of trigger disconnector on Ithaca + Winchesters an asset + not a problem -
I really don't know about that - you'd have to ask the State Police armorer in the '80s who pulled all of the M37s in, replaced them with other models, and sold them at auction. I did see Frank Valles empty a magazine of buckshot at the range in Grants without touching the trigger. His M37 went 'bang' every time he closed the bolt; the range master tried it, had the same result, and condemned it. I'd heard similar stories from the older officers, but never saw more than one premature discharge per gun, and that only in Gallup. I really hadn't thought of those shotguns since.

Last edited by biku324; 07-24-2020 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:41 PM
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I believe they're now called the Model 87 and I'm pretty sure the news ones have eliminated the slam-fire issue.
Holding the trigger back and racking the slide as fast as you could was the closest thing we had to a machine gun back in the day. Maybe some of those "slam fire issues" were caused by having their finger on or near the trigger when they shoved the fore end forward. Rack it hard enough and that might even cause your trigger finger to pull the trigger (your finger stays still but the shotgun moves forward). Keeping your finger out of the trigger guard when racking the shotgun might solve a lot of those unintentional discharges. If I remember correctly, the Winchester Model 1897 and Model 12 worked the same way but the Winchester 1200 and High Standard riot gun had a dis-connector so you had to release the trigger and pull it again for rapid fire.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HardToHandle View Post
If we going to talk scattergun music, it is Junior Taylor - “shoot a boy and run now... Do the Jack Benny...“
Jr. Walker & The All-Stars - Shotgun - YouTube

My favorite starring role for the Ithaca 37 is making the “Shotgun Ed” Nickname in LA Confidential.
Plenty of gunplay and faux violence - L. A. Confidential Shotgun Ed scene - YouTube
I think Jr Walker did that exact same song, with slightly different lyrics....
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:04 PM
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Years ago (77-79 I think) a gun club member who was a FFL bought several, 20 or so Ithaca DSPS from the Kansas State Prison as They were up grading to Rem or Win. Sold them all at $175. Still have mine. Used it at Gunsite and Thunder Ranch and never had a problem. I also don't believe there is an upgrade from a DSPS.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:05 PM
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I really don't know about that - you'd have to ask the State Police armorer in the '80s who pulled all of the M37s in, replaced them with other models, and sold them at auction. I did see Frank Valles empty a magazine of buckshot at the range in Grants without touching the trigger. His M37 went 'bang' every time he closed the bolt; the range master tried it, had the same result, and condemned it. I'd heard similar stories from the older officers, but never saw more than one premature discharge per gun, and that only in Gallup. I really hadn't thought of those shotguns since.
does not make sense to me - did the state police armorer check to see what actual problem was before auctioning them off ? - broken , stuck firing pin on worn one shotgun cost dept. a lot of money in that instance - they are still in use by LAPD [ since 1940 ] - see quote from LAPD service weapons published resource -

[ In the patrol cars, locked to a steel bar, was an Ithaca Model 37, 12-gauge shotgun, loaded with "00" (double-aught) buckshot, nine pellets to the cartridge with one round in the chamber and four in the magazine tube. The shotgun was made specifically for the Los Angeles Police Department, and was called the "L.A.P.D. Special". The shotgun was based on the Ithaca Model 37 "Deerslayer", which was a weapon designed to hunt large game with rifled slugs. As a consequence of being designed for use with slugs, it had rifle sights, unlike most shotguns.

The "L.A.P.D. Special" had a dull parkerized military finish instead of the more usual high gloss blue finish. The barrel was 18 and a half inches long, as opposed to the twenty inches of the civilian version. The advantages of the Ithaca Model 37 Shotgun over the Winchester, Mossberg and Remington models were that the Ithaca weighed a pound less, and could be used with equal ease by right or left-handed shooters due to the unique bottom ejection port and loading chamber it used. The Ithaca 37 is still in use today as the main shotgun carried by LAPD officers, and has been in use since the 1940s. ]
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:40 PM
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No clue on what the armorer did or didn't do. They just pulled in the Ithacas and replaced them.
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