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Old 08-06-2020, 01:44 AM
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Default Any love for HK’s LEM?

When not toting a snub, I carry my HK P2000 with LEM trigger. I like that It holds 14 rounds yet operates pretty much the same as a revolver with a smooth light double action style pull for each shot. I also like that it has a hammer and when you fire it, the hammer returns home each shot so you aren’t holding a cocked pistol at any time (kind of reassuring in a stressful situation). It is also very easy to hide in an IWB under a t-shirt, so I never felt the need to get anything smaller auto wise. Anyone else like the LEM?
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:08 AM
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I have a LEM USP that I love. It's my fridge gun.

But the USP LEM apparently doesn't act quite like your P2000. I'd say mine has a light SA trigger that has a lot of take up (which cocks the hammer), and the hammer on my USP is cocked by the slide and stays cocked until I release the trigger.

I like the LEM enough that I'm trying to decide whether to put it in my USP Compact. I really like having a safety when I'm holstering.

Conversely, the DAK trigger on my SIG P226 really feels like an outstanding revolver trigger to me. It's my bedside gun.
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Old 08-06-2020, 04:10 AM
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I too have a PK2000, but it's the sk model (compact) with an LEM trigger.

But mine acts nothing like yours. If the pistol is unloaded and you insert a mag, then rack the slide to seat the bullet, you have the gun totally cocked but the hammer is forward.

When you pull the trigger there is a long easy, stress-free takeup and then the wall, and then a 4 pound crisp trigger and BANG. The slide racks, shell extracted and a new bullet is seated. The gun is again fully cocked, the hammer is forward and you have the exact same long pull and the wall, BANG, slide racks and repeat.

The advantage to the LEM is that every trigger pull is the same (ala a striker-fired pistol), no DA first shot and subsequent SA shots. But after each shot the gun is fully cocked and there is no safety or decocker...only way to decock is drop the mag and eject the live round.

There is a double action option but it only works as a second strike option. If the gun fails to discharge you can pull the trigger in DA (at about 3,500 pounds...okay more like 12 pounds) and it will cock the gun as a revolver in DA and then BANG (or not, depending on what the problem was with the round).

The sk is a great carry size, about the same as my Chief's Special 9mm but loads 10 rounds not 7. It sounded like a great idea but I think I prefer the DA/SA action on my CS9 (and Beretta PX4 compacts) and the ability to decock and if I want a safety, it's there. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the HK, which is why I have it up for a trade. (And the PX4 will take 15 rounds and the size difference is minimal.

It's a sweet gun, but just no for me these days.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:38 AM
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The LEM or DA only guns with a hammer are the only semi-autos I would feel comfortable carrying without a thumb safety. My LCPII .380 and my Ruger 22/45 I carry chamber empty and my Sig 365 I carry with thumb safety engaged and those are the only striker fire handguns I own. To be honest I've never been that crazy about carrying my 1911 or Browning HP cocked and locked, I am comfortable with my CZ-75 and Bersa Thunder which I carry hammer down/safety off. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

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Old 08-06-2020, 10:11 AM
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While I do like my HK pistols very much, I am not a fan of any of the DAO trigger systems (new or old)

For the most part, I also dislike most striker fired pistols. My HKs being an exception

All my USPs and my P2000sk are Traditional Double Action pistols.



My 357SIG P2000sk is more accurate than a pocket pistol has a right to be

I took delivery on two HK45 Tacticals a few years back, one with the LEM and the other being a Traditional Double Action and just could not warm up to it. After about 8 months it went to the workbench to be converted over to TDA
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoat3340 View Post
I too have a PK2000, but it's the sk model (compact) with an LEM trigger.

But mine acts nothing like yours. If the pistol is unloaded and you insert a mag, then rack the slide to seat the bullet, you have the gun totally cocked but the hammer is forward.

When you pull the trigger there is a long easy, stress-free takeup and then the wall, and then a 4 pound crisp trigger and BANG. The slide racks, shell extracted and a new bullet is seated. The gun is again fully cocked, the hammer is forward and you have the exact same long pull and the wall, BANG, slide racks and repeat.

The advantage to the LEM is that every trigger pull is the same (ala a striker-fired pistol), no DA first shot and subsequent SA shots. But after each shot the gun is fully cocked and there is no safety or decocker...only way to decock is drop the mag and eject the live round.
Color me baffled. How can the gun be cocked if the hammer is forward? Does the slide cycling leave some kind of spring mechanism wound up that is released when you pull the trigger?
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:47 PM
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Color me baffled. How can the gun be cocked if the hammer is forward? Does the slide cycling leave some kind of spring mechanism wound up that is released when you pull the trigger?

If I'm understanding the video correctly, racking the slide compresses the hammer spring, but the hammer goes forward. Pulling the trigger brings the hammer back (I'm assuming this is the long trigger take-up), then when the trigger breaks the hammer spring is released, firing the gun. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:01 PM
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I'll say I've never tried a LEM trigger, and I'm basing my opinion on the description of the trigger pull by others.

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Originally Posted by dr. mordo View Post
I'd say mine has a light SA trigger that has a lot of take up (which cocks the hammer)
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Originally Posted by Redcoat3340 View Post
When you pull the trigger there is a long easy, stress-free takeup and then the wall, and then a 4 pound crisp trigger and BANG.
This is how I've always read the LEM trigger pull being described. A long take-up, followed by a wall/trigger break. And that description is why I've never been particularly interested in the LEM. I prefer a DA pull with a long pull that has resistance for the full length of travel, with a clean break at the end. I like the "rolling" quality of the trigger pull. This is why I like the DA pulls on my Beretta semi-autos and S&W revolvers, and one of the reasons I went with the NY1/"-" connector combo when I had a Glock 23.

But that's just me. I'm sure for those who like the LEM trigger, it works well for them. And who knows? Maybe if I try it I'll like it. I'm open to changing my mind.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:18 PM
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The gun is cocked when the slide chambers a round. I have a P-30 SK (light LEM) People have a hard time getting their head around the LEM trigger. I bought mine from a dealer who ordered it by mistake. I thought about not accepting it but I've always been one to try new things. I've got some trigger time on it and I think it's an improvement over DA/SA. It doesn't have a safety which I like. I've never CC'd a gun with a safety and never will. Call me crazy but that's just me.

I like my P-30 LEM enough to sell my Sigs. It's like a Glock but it isn't a striker. A thumb on the hammer prevents any trigger movement while holstering so no Glock leg. I don't like strikers and I don't like safeties so the LEM is the answer for me. UMMV.

This is a very long tedious explanation but it gets the point across pretty well.

What Is HK's LEM Trigger? Sean Burrows With The HK Shooting Team Explains - YouTube
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:31 PM
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I really like the fact that it basically operates like my double action revolvers which I switch off along with it. No learning curve, muscle memory worries. Pull the trigger and that’s it. I also like having a hammer to put my thumb on when holstering. I have a striker fired M&P but I’m more comfortable with that in my duty holster.
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:10 PM
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Sounds excellent to me, I wonder why they're not more popular?
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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Strikers are pretty much the new wave I guess.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:03 PM
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Sounds excellent to me, I wonder why they're not more popular?
Cost.

I paid $720 for my new p-30 sk about 2 month ago. HK's are about the most expensive polymer production pistols around when you can find one. They don't exactly market to every man.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:51 PM
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My first HK is a USP compact 45 came as LEM. I'm up in the air, but for the time being I prefer the standard v1. All the others aren't lem. I also bought a used 45c without the lem and carry that a lot.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:04 PM
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Strikers are pretty much the new wave I guess.
I have Glocks only because of the caliber 10mm and 357sig. Since I own several Gen 3 S&W autos I see the M&Ps with a meh. I mean I like Glocks, just prefer an exposed hammer.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:38 PM
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Big fan of the LEM trigger. My agency carries the USP with light LEM, trigger pull is long but consistent. Easy to stage with a predictable break.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:40 PM
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Strikers are pretty much the new wave I guess.
Given that the Glock 17 was introduced in the early 80s, I think there was some sarcasm in that statement.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:17 PM
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Sorry. Almost forgot. Forums like pictures of guns.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:31 PM
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Big fan of the LEM trigger. My agency carries the USP with light LEM, trigger pull is long but consistent. Easy to stage with a predictable break.
I am honored this is your first post. 🙂
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:44 AM
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I really like the fact that it basically operates like my double action revolvers which I switch off along with it. No learning curve, muscle memory worries. Pull the trigger and that’s it. I also like having a hammer to put my thumb on when holstering. I have a striker fired M&P but I’m more comfortable with that in my duty holster.
Exactly the reason I was interested in it. I wanted an auto my wife could use without fiddling with a safety, but I can't seem to get used to striker fired guns. As well, I also put my thumb on the hammer when holstering and feel much safer with the HK. It turns out a bonus is the USP has one of the lightest racking slides I have ever felt. Meanwhile, it takes a truck with a wench to move the slide on my .40 P226. I have no problem with the P226, but there's simply no way my wife could move it.

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Sounds excellent to me, I wonder why they're not more popular?
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
Cost.
I think the primary reason the LEM is not more popular is 99% of pistol owners have never seen it. I asked my very knowledgeable LGS owner about it before I got the kit, and he thought it was just another DAO kit like the SIG DAK. When I started explaining it, he perked up and said it sounded like a great system but that he'd never seen one. Once I held it in my hand, it took about 30 secs to learn to love it.

As for cost, as stated by LitO, HK's are expensive. However, the market was flooded for a while with cheap 40s. My USPs were police trade-in .40s that I got for around $350 each. The LEM kit was about $100 and I did the work myself (not recommended unless you are pretty good with fiddly assemblies and bad directions). Before the current buying insanity, you could get most of the HK 40s on GB for a decent price. I imagine those days will return eventually. I still kind of want to get a .40 P2000SK because it can use the mags from my USPc.
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Old 08-07-2020, 01:23 PM
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Exactly the reason I was interested in it. I wanted an auto my wife could use without fiddling with a safety, but I can't seem to get used to striker fired guns. As well, I also put my thumb on the hammer when holstering and feel much safer with the HK. It turns out a bonus is the USP has one of the lightest racking slides I have ever felt. Meanwhile, it takes a truck with a wench to move the slide on my .40 P226. I have no problem with the P226, but there's simply no way my wife could move it.

I think the primary reason the LEM is not more popular is 99% of pistol owners have never seen it. I asked my very knowledgeable LGS owner about it before I got the kit, and he thought it was just another DAO kit like the SIG DAK. When I started explaining it, he perked up and said it sounded like a great system but that he'd never seen one. Once I held it in my hand, it took about 30 secs to learn to love it.

As for cost, as stated by LitO, HK's are expensive. However, the market was flooded for a while with cheap 40s. My USPs were police trade-in .40s that I got for around $350 each. The LEM kit was about $100 and I did the work myself (not recommended unless you are pretty good with fiddly assemblies and bad directions). Before the current buying insanity, you could get most of the HK 40s on GB for a decent price. I imagine those days will return eventually. I still kind of want to get a .40 P2000SK because it can use the mags from my USPc.
My dealer had no idea what LEM was either. I would have never ordered it but that's what I got and I kept it. Might have my HK45 converted to standardize.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:20 PM
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I've put LEM lights in 3 of my HK's. I just picked-up a like new USP 40 and will put in the LEM once I feel like spending $100. I also have a USP Expert in .45. Haven't decided if I want to go LEM in that yet.

The LEM light is my preferred variant.
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