Good evening folks
I’ve been offered what I believe to be a Mauser 66s Europa Diplomat in .243. I’ve found very little info online to determine a fair value. Although it’s strange looking, I am impressed with the craftsmanship and condition. Not sure what I’d do with it. I am sure it would be tough to flip. Any help on the approximate value would be greatly appreciated.
Pricing it for this country is very difficult because it is such a niche gun and not really made for the US market. The caliber is also not the most versatile. In Europe the .243 is great for roe deer, the most common game of the deer family (pictured in the engraving on the rifle‘s right side), but here our deer are much bigger and most hunters prefer a larger caliber.
Here is a link to current e-gun listings for this gun. It‘s in German, the prices are in Euro, so add about 20% for an idea of the dollar price. There aren’t a lot on offer, but this at least gives you an idea what they‘re asking over there.
Thing with niche guns is that they can make you rich one day, and be a pain to give away the next. It's not limited to foreign made guns, either. I helped somebody sell a .38 Special Target Python some years back. I was warned that it might struggle to make $500 on BrokeGunner, or it might go for a bunch more if a bidding war kicked up. The latter happened and the lady got nearly $1k out of it.
While I cannot help you with the value, I am familiar with the rifle. Like the more famous Anschutz 54 match action, the Mauser 66 was also developed by the German top sports shooter and inventor Walther Gehmann. It is built on a very short action and is still well respected among hunters.
The Mauser 66 is a fabulous rifle and you should buy it if possible. The one you’re looking at is a 66S Diplomat grade with upgrades. Options were were available separately, much like options on a new car. Pricing can be difficult, but that gun should bring at lease $2500. They were very expensive when new and haven’t really appreciated or kept pace with inflation, which offers the buyer a lot of value for the money.
66’s typically have great triggers, give rifle performance out of a carbine length gun (telescoping bolt) and are extremely accurate. Another key feature is the interchangeable barrels. Open the bolt, remove two Allen screws and the barrel comes right out. Additional barrels will all headspace, provided the chambered cartridge shares the same bolt face. Guns chambered for .243 will accept 6.5x57, 7x64, .270 Win, .308 and ..30-06 barrels (probably more). Magnum barrels won’t fit. Extra original barrels are very hard to find and can bring $600. It took me more than a decade to find a .270 barrel for my 66S Diplomat grade .243 and I was thrilled to get it. I know a gunsmith who makes custom barrels for these, but I wanted an original Mauser barrel. What’s the point of having a gun with quick change barrels, if you only have one?!?
Here’s a similar gun to the one you’re looking at that went for $4600 five years ago. Keep in mind that the auction gun came with two extra barrels, three sets of Mauser QD scope bases, QD rings, a Pecar scope and all barrels have iron sights. The extra goodies are probably worth around $2000.
Here’s a couple of photos of my gun. You’ll note mine have the same rail mount as the one you’re looking at. These rails bring about $150. Original Mauser QD pivot mounts bring close to $300 when you can find them and nicely made Russian copies of the QD mounts are available for about $250.
You can click on the photo to enlarge them.
I’m including some photos of the 1981 catalog and dealer price list. Note that the SL Diplomat in a standard caliber listed for $3500, with a dealer cost of $2625. The engraved telescoping bolt carrier for a standard caliber rifle was available separately at an MSRP of $749 (dealer cost $562). The engraved bolt knob and trigger guard were also extra!
The catalog is mostly eye candy, but it shows how far you could go with upgrades. Note that they also made a nice copy of the Colt Detective Special!
Four page centerfold of the Models 66 & 77!
The 66 Sniper rifle and the Colt clone!
__________________
"I also cook."
Last edited by s&wchad; 09-21-2020 at 08:18 AM.
Reason: Photos merged
Wow! thanks for such detailed information! I am assuming the rail won’t accept readily available rings like Talleys, Leupold or others that fit a picatinny rail? It also seems the scope would sit too high for proper cheek weld.
They accept standard Weaver, Warne Maxima or any other rings that fit a weaver or picatinny rail. I like the old B&L rings, because they’re compact, light and secure. The rifles have a pretty high comb and you can use low rings and get a good cheek weld with a scope that has up to a 40 or 42mm objective. You’d need to use higher rings if you wanted to mount a scope with a 50 or 56mm objective, but that’s kind a silly on these svelte little rifles.
I’ve got a Leupold M8 8X AO on the .243 barrel and an old style Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x40 on the .270 barrel. As you can see in the photos, the M8 just clears the barrel and the shorter VX-III just clears the base. Both offer proper eye relief and come up perfectly for me.
Don’t want to buy one, but would love to see one.
And they make a Mauser Revolver! Wow!
Surely you can come up with something more Upscale than a Weaver Base!
I just bought a Weaver Base, but it fits a $300 Savage Axis!
My Carl Gustav has Buehler base and rings.
__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Last edited by THE PILGRIM; 09-21-2020 at 09:57 AM.
They accept standard Weaver, Warne Maxima or any other rings that fit a weaver or picatinny rail. I like the old B&L rings, because they’re compact, light and secure. The rifles have a pretty high comb and you can use low rings and get a good cheek weld with a scope that has up to a 40 or 42mm objective. You’d need to use higher rings if you wanted to mount a scope with a 50 or 56mm objective, but that’s kind a silly on these svelte little rifles.
I’ve got a Leupold M8 8X AO on the .243 barrel and an old style Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x40 on the .270 barrel. As you can see in the photos, the M8 just clears the barrel and the shorter VX-III just clears the base. Both offer proper eye relief and come up perfectly for me.
The Mauser 66 is a fabulous rifle and you should buy it if possible....
Great information. You’re obviously a fan.
I dug around in old German hunting magazine articles a bit. The .243 was indeed one of the most popular original calibers. When they started production in the mid-1960s, you could also get some calibers that probably sound a bit exotic to American ears: anyone familiar with 5,6×61 vom Hofe?
Production was expensive because of mostly machined parts; even most “standard” models were sold with some engraving. The M77 was a lot cheaper to produce, and many German hunting opinionaters seem to think Mauser lost it completely with the M96.
One thing you have to understand about German hunters is that many will invest in one good rifle or combo gun, and good optics, once they “have arrived” financially, and that will be it. That explains the prices and elaborate options. No running around to gun shows, buying and trading and trying something every so often. My dad bought a Blaser 7x65R/12 combination gun and used that for the last 40 years of his life, only occasionally borrowing something else if needed.
Here’s a picture I harvested from an article by a guy raving about his original 1960s M66 in .243. Note the double-set trigger.
Mauser used to import a lot of guns and sold them under their brand name, among them a lot of FEG HP clones, some Voeres rimfires and some revolvers, too.
Mauser used to import a lot of guns and sold them under their brand name, among them a lot of FEG HP clones, some Voeres rimfires and some revolvers, too.
A bit of checking reveals that this particular Mauser revolver, pictured in the 1981 catalog above, was manufactured by Renato Gamba in Gardone/Italy, but finished at Mauser and proofed in Ulm, so they could be sold as “Made in Germany”.
I believe you will like .243–if you don’t already have a rifle in that caliber. I know it’s not the latest and greatest but I think it’s an excellent cartridge for varmints in the lighter bullet weights and game animals up to deer in the heavier weights. It will be extremely soft shooting in that heavier, wooden-stocked rifle too.
Coupled with the Browning, it sounds like you picked up a couple of classics.
I believe you will like .243–if you don’t already have a rifle in that caliber. I know it’s not the latest and greatest but I think it’s an excellent cartridge for varmints in the lighter bullet weights and game animals up to deer in the heavier weights. It will be extremely soft shooting in that heavier, wooden-stocked rifle too.
Coupled with the Browning, it sounds like you picked up a couple of classics.
Thanks
I have/had many 243s. I really like the round, especially for coyotes. I’d like to find another barrel in 7x64 or 9.3x62.
Your telescoping bolt carrier was done by hand. The bolt knob was done by machine, except for the starburst cuts on the very end which were done by hand. I don’t know about the trigger guard. Look at it closely with a loupe or magnifying glass and you should be able to tell.
S&Wchad et al
Today I had a little time to inspect, and mount a scope on her. While disassembling her I noticed the serial number is on the interchangeable barrel and not the receiver. Ill look further to see if there’s a serial number on the receiver - it should be in different since the barrels are interchangeable.
Lovely rifles! Nice grain on the 66, it’s better than most! You did really well getting those two!
Production on the Mauser 66’s started in the mid-1960’s and ran at least through the early 1980’s. The back part of the barrel assembly that’s serialized is actually a separate piece that the barrel is threaded into. It basically performs the same function as the front receiver bridge on a conventional bolt action rifle and the recoil lug is sandwiched between it and the rear shoulder of the barrel. My barrel assemblies also have the numeric portion of the serial number stamped on the bottom of the actual barrel, under the chamber.
I haven’t had the gun apart in a while and don’t remember if there’s a serial number on the receiver/frame or not. I do remember seeing the original caliber written in grease pencil inside the stock.
I have a Krico in .308, DST, High Euro Comb, flawless workmanship and wood...heres the rub..its German/Euro, MANY American hunters dont value the quality these rifles are built with, a Wal Mart Rem BDL (700-800$$USD) will shoot the same to 300M+. Buy it like you would buy a quality watch or a Jag, its timeless quality. As to the .243 it quite popular in America and Europe, Killing 400Lbs deer all day with a 120GR+ Bullet and [place the shot. Ive shot that round to 500M. For 1500.00 USD it near robbery.
I had a 66 in .243 bought new in the mid 70s for $190. I traded it a few years later for a Belgium Browning BLR .308. Mine was just a standard grade though, not like the ones pictures here. It was very accurate. I made a memorable shot on a crow at a very long distance with it one day while groundhog hunting.
So if I buy another barrel it will come complete with receiver ring and different serial number?
Yes.
My extra .270 barrel came as a serialized assembly. I’ve seen a number of multi-barrel sets over the years and all the barrels were complete assemblies, ready to install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4
Will it have to go through an FFL?
Maybe, probably... it depends!
I purchased my barrel locally from a private party and Michigan law doesn’t require that type of long arm transfer to go through a dealer. If you find a barrel online and it has to ship, it may need to go through an FFL. I suspect it would confuse a lot dealers as well, unless they were intimately familiar with the Mauser 66. Ruger .22 auto pistols have the serial number on the receiver/barrel assembly and not the frame, so those barrel assemblies need to be treated as a pistol.
Thanks for the great info.
Where’s a good place to search for barrels? I’d like one in 6.5x57, 7x64 and or 9.3x62. Didn’t see any in the usual places. The hunt is half the fun.
As I said before, it took me over a decade of looking to find a barrel that matched my bolt face. I previously listed calibers that will interchange with a .243. Mine came from someone locally who had a number of 66’s including some multi-barrel sets. I considered buying another complete gun and parting out the stock and bolt assembly, before I was able to buy snag a .270 barrel. Good luck!
Thanks for the great info.
Where’s a good place to search for barrels? I’d like one in 6.5x57, 7x64 and or 9.3x62. Didn’t see any in the usual places. The hunt is half the fun.
I bought a 66S (also 243) in 1974 at the Patch Barracks Rod & Gun Club in Stuttgart, German. I am yet to find another barrel. Probably need to find a European source who could import one. Mine is the standard model and you got a great deal on the upgraded one; I don't think I'd let mine go for $1500. The only thing I never liked on it is that the safety is hard to operate and noisy. Enjoy it.
So if I buy another barrel it will come complete with receiver ring and different serial number?
Will it have to go through an FFL?
By ATF rules the serial number has to be on the receiver. German laws at that time did not require the serial number to be on the receiver but on one of the main parts that need a license to purchase firearms or parts over there. The importer should have marked the serial number on the receiver, it is a part of Section 923(i) of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). The Mauser 66 was developed by Gehmann in 1966.
The Below is quite right. Receivers were not considered a Major part where as Barrels were. I saw several USGI m2 carbine receivers FS with No paperwork required , Barrel and trigger pack were SN.
By ATF rules the serial number has to be on the receiver. German laws at that time did not require the serial number to be on the receiver but on one of the main parts that need a license to purchase firearms or parts over there. The importer should have marked the serial number on the receiver, it is a part of Section 923(i) of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). The Mauser 66 was developed by Gehmann in 1966.
FWIW, the one I had (not the Diplomat version as is the subject of this thread) was marked as a model 660, not 66. Was there any difference?
I’m not 100% sure on this, but I believe that the Model 660 was the label used for the US export version of the 66. It was not physically any different, apart from different markings. It may have been less fancy in terms of engraving options. I also don’t think this separate model was sold for very long.
Mauser 66s Diplomat Value
Linear Mode
