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09-26-2020, 06:52 PM
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Taurus Revolvers: Am I Setting The Bar Too High?
Out if impulse, last weekend I picked up a used, but what I thought was almost like new in box Taurus Tracker 17 in 17HMR, mostly becuase I like the caliber, and S&W doesn't make a revolver chamber for it. The bore looked dirty, but the gun was otherwise in great condition. This weekend, I grabbed a .17 caliber bore snake to clean her up, and found that the bore is rusted and pitted end to end. It is honestly worse than the 106 year old 38 M&P Model of 1902 I have.This is not the first Taurus Revolver I've bought and found this. I bought a recent production Stainless Steel Model 94 in 22 caliber once that had a bore that looked just like this one does, sans the rust. Ive had other Taurus revolvers though, manufactured before 1995, a 94, 96, and a 85, and they were actually pretty good. These later model ones are a disappointment by contrast...
What is up with these revolvers? Is this the new normal for them? Did my tatses for S&W and Colt revolvers taint my expectations too much? Has anyone else received a revolver with a bore in really rough shape like this, or am I just unlucky?
I tried to take a picture of the bore, it's too small to get a great photo of, but it's below nonetheless...
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Last edited by mainegrw; 09-26-2020 at 06:53 PM.
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09-26-2020, 07:03 PM
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Smells like LOBM to me.
Lack Of Basic Maintenance.
I'd blame this on the previous owner, not the gun manufacturer.
That being said .... the only Taurus I had problems with was in that caliber but the bore was clean.
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09-26-2020, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainegrw
Out if impulse, last weekend I picked up a used, but what I thought was almost like new in box Taurus Tracker 17 in 17HMR, mostly becuase I like the caliber, and S&W doesn't make a revolver chamber for it. The bore looked dirty, but the gun was otherwise in great condition. This weekend, I grabbed a .17 caliber bore snake to clean her up, and found that the bore is rusted and pitted end to end. It is honestly worse than the 106 year old 38 M&P Model of 1902 I have.This is not the first Taurus Revolver I've bought and found this. I bought a recent production Stainless Steel Model 94 in 22 caliber once that had a bore that looked just like this one does, sans the rust. Ive had other Taurus revolvers though, manufactured before 1995, a 94, 96, and a 85, and they were actually pretty good. These later model ones are a disappointment by contrast...
What is up with these revolvers? Is this the new normal for them? Did my tatses for S&W and Colt revolvers taint my expectations too much? Has anyone else received a revolver with a bore in really rough shape like this, or am I just unlucky?
I tried to take a picture of the bore, it's too small to get a great photo of, but it's below nonetheless...
Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
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The powder used in most brands of .22 and 17hmr ammo tends to be cheaper quality and, thus, more corrosive than the powder used in centerfire rounds. Couple that with people not properly cleaning and storing these firearms and you end up with nasty barrels.
It has been my experience though that you can scrub the barrels out enough for them to be useable. Use good quality bore cleaner chemicals and brass brushes. Oil the barrels up then blast about 1000 rounds through them to knock down and/or smooth out some of the rougher pitting... then once again CLEAN AND OIL the barrels well before putting the guns away for nap time.
And pick up some Desiccant Packs to store with your guns. If you keep them in a locker or safe out of their boxes, place the desiccant close to the guns. If you store your guns in their individual cases, place a desiccant pack near the gun in it's case.
This should help protect them from moisture for longer periods of slumber.
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09-26-2020, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tytan01
The powder used in most brands of .22 and 17hmr ammo tends to be cheaper quality and, thus, more corrosive than the powder used in centerfire rounds. Couple that with people not properly cleaning and storing these firearms and you end up with nasty barrels.
It has been my experience though that you can scrub the barrels out enough for them to be useable. Use good quality bore cleaner chemicals and brass brushes. Oil the barrels up then blast about 1000 rounds through them to knock down and/or smooth out some of the rougher pitting... then once again CLEAN AND OIL the barrels well before putting the guns away for nap time.
And pick up some Desiccant Packs to store with your guns. If you keep them in a locker or safe out of their boxes, place the desiccant close to the guns. If you store your guns in their individual cases, place a desiccant pack near the gun in it's case.
This should help protect them from moisture for longer periods of slumber.
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I'll give that a try, thanks. Might be the only gun I have that I can pump 1000 rounds through right now anyway, not much other ammo out there currently.
I do have desiccant packs in my safe, and the remainder if my guns, 22s included are all in primo shape, this is the outlier. I also store all the handguns in their cases as well, usually never loose.
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09-26-2020, 07:24 PM
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Get a brass bush & Soak the bore with a patch of CLP. Let it sit for a couple of days (repeat application if bore gets dry) then run the bore brush through it 15 or 20 times (be careful of the crown). See how it looks. JMO
A gun smith or most people on this forum may have a better way to treat this issue.
As hittman77 said, the previous owner didn’t clean & treat the bbl with a good preservative oil before putting the gun up.
I have had guns stored for 10+ years with only a yearly oiling with Rem-oil
(With Teflon) without issues. They looked like new from factory.
Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
Last edited by Execpro; 09-26-2020 at 07:28 PM.
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09-26-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Execpro
Get a brass bush & Soak the bore with a patch of CLP. Let it sit for a couple of days (repeat application if bore gets dry) then run the bore brush through it 15 or 20 times (be careful of the crown). See how it looks. JMO
A gun smith or most people on this forum may have a better way to treat this issue.
As hittman77 said, the previous owner didn’t clean & treat the bbl with a good preservative oil before putting the gun up.
I have had guns stored for 10+ years with only a yearly oiling with Rem-oil
(With Teflon) without issues. They looked like new from factory.
Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
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The maddening thing is that the only corrosion on the whole revolver is in the bore. The chambers are perfectly clean and smooth, the forcing cone, which mind you is steel in the white, is perfectly clean, no rust or signs of pitting. That's why I'm torn to say it's improper maintenance. I have, and have had pistols and revolvers that had obviously been left uncleaned for many years, that with a little bit of scrubbing cleaned up really well with no pitting. Only 5 guns out of around 200 that I've owned have had bad bores from what I can recall: A Winchester 1906 that was a seized up barn hanger before I brought it back to life, a Model 617 with a ringed barrel that was otherwise ok, the aforementioned 38M&P model of 1902, the aforementioned Stainless Steel Taurus 94 with a bore that looks like this one, and then this Tracker 17. I'm not ready to blanket say it's bad maintenance, not on a two or three year old revolver, and not when I has a stainless steel example very much in the same condition.
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Last edited by mainegrw; 09-26-2020 at 07:41 PM.
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09-26-2020, 07:42 PM
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The previous owner got his ammo in a Russian spam can by the looks of that.
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09-26-2020, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve
The previous owner got his ammo in a Russian spam can by the looks of that.
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Lol, can you get Russian Surplus 17HMR? I thought the caliber was pretty unpopular pretty much everywhere.
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09-26-2020, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainegrw
I also store all the handguns in their cases as well, usually never loose.
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Maybe your area doesn't have as much humidity as here, in the Midwest, on the banks of the Mississippi River but ..... right there is a sure way to trap moisture.
Most of us here want the guns upright in racks in the safe. Some discount stores sell cheap-o "dish racks" that hold 8 plates and those work great for handguns too.
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09-26-2020, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hittman77
Maybe your area doesn't have as much humidity as here, in the Midwest, on the banks of the Mississippi River but ..... right there is a sure way to trap moisture.
Most of us here want the guns upright in racks in the safe. Some discount stores sell cheap-o "dish racks" that hold 8 plates and those work great for handguns too.
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I store my guns well oiled for the most part, and all them are treated to Rennaisance Wax pretty frequently as well, including the bores. I don't have issues typically with moisture in the safe at all, and the room where the safe is, is kept dehumidified year round too. I like the dish rack idea, but I'm pressed for space in there currently, hence why they mostly stay cased.
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09-26-2020, 08:57 PM
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I have never been a fan of Taurus pistols.
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09-26-2020, 09:09 PM
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Just shoot it. Nobody buys a Taurus to be a safe queen, and if you have more than $300 in it without inspecting the bore, and you’re that picky, it’s on you . . .
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09-26-2020, 11:38 PM
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Lots of good comments on how to clean up the bore as much as possible.........but the bottom line is that people mostly buy Taurus firearms because they "cost less" than other makes. And they cost less because they are not as well made (materials/fit & finish) as firearms that cost more.
Lot's of folks will post that their Taurus is accurate and they've had no problems, but when the "law of large numbers" is applied there are more problems with Taurus firearms than with an equal amount of quality made firearms.
Good rule of thumb is "friends don't let friends buy a Taurus"........end of rant. That is my opinion.
Don
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09-27-2020, 12:19 AM
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Maybe a little JB bore paste or similar liquid polishing paste would clean things up - the stuff folks use to make their stainless ousides look nice & shiny?
I have a few Taurus revolvers and if they were made just bit better - not saying I'd take their 85 over my 442, but I'd be comfortable carrying it.
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09-27-2020, 02:27 AM
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I've owned multiple Taurus revolvers in 38/357/44 SPL and had no barrel corrosion. Two of them have a fair amount of carry time over the last few years.
I have to think it's a maintenance issue.
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09-27-2020, 04:45 AM
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Fabricating a nice .17 cal barrel for use in cartridge firearms is no easy task. Many custom barrel makers won't go smaller than .20 or .22 caliber.
Taurus' "Lifetime warranty" is basically worthless, too.
One suggestion is to reline the barrel. Brownell's sells a 25" liner in .17 cal for $43. Prepping your revolver means drilling out the barrel with a piloted bit. These work great in a rifle, and are a cinch in a short revolver barrel. Installing the liner can be done using epoxy.
If you can't/don't want to do the work, maybe a local gunsmith can do it. It tends to be a fairly inexpensive job.
Even better, perhaps a gunsmith has a short length of offcut liner to do the job.
Call Brownell's tech hotline. They are very helpful. They might be able to recommend someone. Certainly they can talk you through the job.
Here's a link to Midway's "How to" video on installing a rimfire barrel liner. Because it's a long rifle barrel, and the barrel is chambered, they use a lathe. But, you'll get the idea:
Gunsmithing - How to Reline a 22 Rimfire Rifle Barrel Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA - YouTube
Jim
Last edited by 6string; 09-27-2020 at 04:51 AM.
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09-27-2020, 06:13 AM
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Over the years I probably had thousands of students at the range, which
helps me form my opinions. Taurus revolvers are not S&W or Colts, but
they are not bad. You couldn't give me a Taurus semi-automatic.
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09-27-2020, 08:27 AM
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What about fire lapping? I've never done it but this one might be fun to try.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006412014
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09-27-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlHunt
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Interesting concept, though I'm not sure that i could unseat and reseat a 17HMR bullet in a case after applying the abrasive compound. Seems like a great option for larger bores though.
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09-27-2020, 12:16 PM
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I hope you have less into it than the cost of 1000 17 HMR rounds. There is a reason the Taurus weapons collectors society meets in a phone booth.
[and yes there is a phone booth in the Yugo Inn in Lewistown MT.]
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09-27-2020, 01:27 PM
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If you have had a good one a long time with no problems you are happy with it. If you have had problem you have every right to be unhappy, but then there are the gun snobs, some who have never owned or shot one.
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09-27-2020, 02:00 PM
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Once I could afford new S&W revolvers, I quit even looking at anything Taurus.
IMO they are less expensive because they are made cheaper.
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09-27-2020, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBond
Once I could afford new S&W revolvers, I quit even looking at anything Taurus.
IMO they are less expensive because they are made cheaper.
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Agreed, however S&W doesn't make a revolver in 17HMR, else I wouldn't have even considered this one. I had a Ruger Single Six in 17HMR as well, but I dont care for single action revolvers, I am through and through, a double action aficionado.
I should qualify however, recently, a supposed employee of S&W who apparently lives in my state, had an S&W revolver chambered for 17HMR transferred into my favorite LGS. I didn't get a good look at it, but he had said that it was one if a couple prototypes they put together, but ultimately never brought to market. I guess he was able to scoop one up. Idk though, there might be a market now, considering its one of the few calibers still on store shelves.
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09-27-2020, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tytan01
The powder used in most brands of .22 and 17hmr ammo tends to be cheaper quality and, thus, more corrosive than the powder used in centerfire rounds. Couple that with people not properly cleaning and storing these firearms and you end up with nasty barrels.
It has been my experience though that you can scrub the barrels out enough for them to be useable. Use good quality bore cleaner chemicals and brass brushes. Oil the barrels up then blast about 1000 rounds through them to knock down and/or smooth out some of the rougher pitting... then once again CLEAN AND OIL the barrels well before putting the guns away for nap time.
And pick up some Desiccant Packs to store with your guns. If you keep them in a locker or safe out of their boxes, place the desiccant close to the guns. If you store your guns in their individual cases, place a desiccant pack near the gun in it's case.
This should help protect them from moisture for longer periods of slumber.
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I have seen a whole lot of guns chambered in .22 rimfire that sat for years and years without ever had a bore clean and they just don't rust out the bores unless they are stored where the whole gun is rusty.
I would have to think it's either the powder or the primer compound in that caliber that attracts moisture.
I would shoot it awhile and then wire brush the heck out of it with something like Flitz and then always store it cleaned and oiled.
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09-27-2020, 03:26 PM
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check crown
I bought a new 992 tracker 9 rd, .22 LR and .22 Mag cylinders that interchange with a button push.
Gun had horrible accuracy right out of box. Free hand, Pie plate at 7 yds.
With most .22's I average about 2".
I don't expect S&W accuracy, but that was horrible.
On the tracker, the crown (end of barrel) is recessed in the barrel shroud a little more than a 1/4". Looked at crown with 10 power loop and could see burrs. Lapped it with a brass screw and rubbing compound and brought group down to about 3". Still not as good as my other .22's but OK for plinking.
I guess cheaper in price, because you have to do part of the gun finish yourself!
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09-27-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7
I have seen a whole lot of guns chambered in .22 rimfire that sat for years and years without ever had a bore clean and they just don't rust out the bores unless they are stored where the whole gun is rusty.
I would have to think it's either the powder or the primer compound in that caliber that attracts moisture.
I would shoot it awhile and then wire brush the heck out of it with something like Flitz and then always store it cleaned and oiled.
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Yes, .22 RF don't rust because the bullets are covered with a waxy substance that protects the bore. Even when everything else is rusty, the bore is good. Exception: old .22s that had corrosive ;primers and possibly BP.
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09-27-2020, 05:30 PM
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What do they call it when people keep doing the same thing and expect different results? That’s how I look at Taurus. It’s always a **** shoot if you are going to get a cherry or a lemon. Everybody and their brother has one that shoots better than a S&W. Because they have them is the reason me and my brother have never owned one.
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09-27-2020, 06:29 PM
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I recently decided to get a .22 snub nose revolver, for cheap practice at the range, since my usual carry guns are J frames. The LGS had a 43c. I didn't like the aluminum cylinder. Not sure that would have kept me from buying it, but the significantly canted barrel did. Ruger would have been my second choice, but they don't make the SP101 in a .22 snubbie, and the LCR doesn't appeal to me.
Looking at what the LGS had in stock (they have a huge inventory), I saw a new Taurus model 942 snubnose, all stainless steel model. Barrel was straight, action was good, I bought it. The bore is clean as a whistle. If anybody is wondering, it shoots great. The trigger stages different than my Smiths, and the reset seems long to me, but I was used to both by the end of my second trip to the range. Never thought I would buy a Taurus, but then last year I bought a Charter Pitbull .45, and I never thought I'd buy a CA either.
My shooting buddy bought a new 317 kit gun not long ago. The action is terrible on it. Maybe the worst I've ever seen on a revolver. He hasn't brought it to the range in quite some time, because he doesn't like it either.
We both bought four inch 617's in the last five years, me first. Mine had to go back to the factory because the action kept locking up, right out of the box. They fixed it first time, and it's an excellent gun. He got one with a barrel that looks like 40 miles of bad road through his bore scope. Sent it back, S&W said it was acceptable. He has trouble getting good groups with it, but it shoots fine for me.
Ah well, I'm rambling. I didn't buy the 942 because it was only $349. I bought it because Taurus just happened to make the gun I wanted. I'm happy with it. Despite the many problems I've had with new S&W's, I'm still a Smith guy. I've been carrying my 640 Pro a lot lately. If they made that in a .22, I'd be standing in line tomorrow.
I guess my bottom line is it's not always about money. It's about who makes the gun built the way you happen to want.
Last edited by hyena; 09-27-2020 at 06:54 PM.
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09-29-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyena
I recently decided to get a .22 snub nose revolver, for cheap practice at the range, since my usual carry guns are J frames. The LGS had a 43c. I didn't like the aluminum cylinder. Not sure that would have kept me from buying it, but the significantly canted barrel did. Ruger would have been my second choice, but they don't make the SP101 in a .22 snubbie, and the LCR doesn't appeal to me.
Looking at what the LGS had in stock (they have a huge inventory), I saw a new Taurus model 942 snubnose, all stainless steel model. Barrel was straight, action was good, I bought it. The bore is clean as a whistle. If anybody is wondering, it shoots great. The trigger stages different than my Smiths, and the reset seems long to me, but I was used to both by the end of my second trip to the range. Never thought I would buy a Taurus, but then last year I bought a Charter Pitbull .45, and I never thought I'd buy a CA either.
My shooting buddy bought a new 317 kit gun not long ago.
The action is terrible on it. Maybe the worst I've ever seen on a revolver. He hasn't brought it to the range in quite some time, because he doesn't like it either.
We both bought four inch 617's in the last five years, me first. Mine had to go back to the factory because the action kept locking up, right out of the box. They fixed it first time, and it's an excellent gun. He got one with a barrel that looks like 40 miles of bad road through his bore scope. Sent it back, S&W said it was acceptable. He has trouble getting good groups with it, but it shoots fine for me.
Ah well, I'm rambling. I didn't buy the 942 because it was only $349. I bought it because Taurus just happened to make the gun I wanted. I'm happy with it. Despite the many problems I've had with new S&W's, I'm still a Smith guy. I've been carrying my 640 Pro a lot lately. If they made that in a .22, I'd be standing in line tomorrow.
I guess my bottom line is it's not always about money. It's about who makes the gun built the way you happen to want.
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I have an early prelock 317 snub unfired in the box and I have to agree that it has the stiffest trigger pull around. I'm just keeping it for trading stock but I won't shoot it.
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