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Old 10-16-2020, 09:48 AM
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Default Size Wise - Issue Guns of Various Organizations

Folks,
I'm curious about issue weapons of LE Organizations. Over the years I've asked curious questions with mixed results. A lovely young lady deputy I helped with some security videos after some local car robberies was packing more gear than I carried on the march in the US Army in 1972.

St. Johns County Sheriff's office (FL) issues 40 Glocks in G22 and G27 size.

One Sheriff's office here in FL, according to unverified sources, issues the SWaMPy Shield 9mm for all personnel, just to lighten the load and standardize. They have ARs for serious social engagements.

Anyone have current information on issue and philosophy?

Geoff
Who is curious.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:17 AM
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It’s all over the spectrum and varies greatly from one state to another. My state, Tennessee, it’s about a four way tie right now between 9, 40, 357sig, and 45. Ten years ago almost no one was issuing 9mm except a few feds. Its not as accurate as it once was but I have a list for TN found here: LE Duty Handguns in the State of TN - Handguns - TNGunOwners.com

With the exception of Atlanta PD, most large agencies do not change handguns very frequently. In fact, smaller agencies get newer gun about three times as often as much larger agencies. I worked for a department with a small budget and only six full-time. They have changed handguns twice since I left in 2012. A while back, some department, I think St. Louis or Springfield, MO, got new handguns for the first time in 20 years.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:31 AM
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My agency issues:

Duty weapon (Gen 5 Glock 17 or 19, officer's choice)

Back Up Weapon (Glock 43)

Optional Remington 870 with 18 inch barrel and/or Colt 6920 M4 and two 30 round magazines (most officers carry the Colt only)

A choice of three less lethal weapons 1.) Taser X2, 2.) Fox Pepper Spray, 3.) ASP Baton...(officer must carry one, but can carry all three. If a Taser is carried one additional less option must be carried. Most carry a Taser and ASP on person and leave the pepper spray in the vehicle until needed.)

3 Magazines for duty weapon, 2 magazines for backup

2 sets of Peerless or Smith & Wesson Handcuffs

1 CAT Tourniquet

1 Motorolla Radio

1 external vest carrier and 1 concealable vest carrier (Issued level IIIA panels fit both vests.)

The whole rig probably weighs 25 or so pounds. Office staff mostly wear the 43 in a paddle holster, and nothing else gear wise.

The "why" behind it all. The loadout is considered to be the minimum needed to solve most issues that could possibly be faced in 21st century Georgia policing.

When it comes to caliber, I think many of those who are in positions to influence those who make decisions about what bullet goes in the magazine have come to the realization that modern self defense ammo is effective in any calibre 9mm and above. The big difference between the calibers is cost. 9mm is about 30% or so cheaper to stock in both duty and range type. So transitioning to 9mm from 40 or whatever does 1 of 2 things for agencies. It either decreases the ammo budget or with the same budget increases the training tempo. Not a bad result either way.

I have been around long enough to remember the days when all you had was a duty weapon/magazines, a set of handcuffs, a baton, a radio and a shotgun riding in the patrol car. Policing was much more hands on then than it is now. The result of "progress", along with advancement in tools available, is a much heavier basic load.

Last edited by CQB27; 10-16-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyaljeeper View Post
Itís all over the spectrum and varies greatly from one state to another. My state, Tennessee, itís about a four way tie right now between 9, 40, 357sig, and 45. Ten years ago almost no one was issuing 9mm except a few feds. Its not as accurate as it once was but I have a list for TN found here: LE Duty Handguns in the State of TN - Handguns - TNGunOwners.com

With the exception of Atlanta PD, most large agencies do not change handguns very frequently. In fact, smaller agencies get newer gun about three times as often as much larger agencies. I worked for a department with a small budget and only six full-time. They have changed handguns twice since I left in 2012. A while back, some department, I think St. Louis or Springfield, MO, got new handguns for the first time in 20 years.
I have more than one good friend that has policed at Atlanta PD for more than 20 years, and as much as I hate to admit it I know APDs "new gun every two years" circus that occured a few years back was a direct result of trying to stay loyal the the S&W brand that had served the department for at least a century.

When they decided to move on from the 5906 they chose the S&W 99. It turned out to be a rust bucket. They next chose the 4003 TSW and had problems with the durability of the recoil spring guide. Up next was the M&P and they had the early 1st generation slide surface coating and tight chamber issues that were around then. They have been carrying Glocks since 2013, and I doubt we will see a "new model" at APD anytime soon.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:21 PM
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At my agency and those surrounding us the Glock 22 was the standard with a few Glock 23s issued. Our Narcotic investigators were issued Glock 27s in addition to the 22/23.

As I was retiring were were changing over to the SIG P320 9mm full size after 25 years with the Glocks (this was based on officer preference for the SIG over the Glock).
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CQB27 View Post

When they decided to move on from the 5906 they chose the S&W 99. It turned out to be a rust bucket. They next chose the 4003 TSW and had problems with the durability of the recoil spring guide. Up next was the M&P and they had the early 1st generation slide surface coating and tight chamber issues that were around then. They have been carrying Glocks since 2013, and I doubt we will see a "new model" at APD anytime soon.
I never even knew about the S&W 99 being an APD weapon. I think their current Glocks in 9mm are about four years old at this point. Their 40 Glocks didnít even last a year before they traded them. I recall hearing the CALEA certification wants primary, issued handguns no older than five years old or some kind of garbage. If they care anything about that certification they may be getting new ones soon.

Chattanooga PD has new Sig p320 in 9mm and it was a terrible time to switch during the 9mm ammo shortage.

A recent conversation with a LE rep from the biggest blue label dealer in the country indicates that new agency weapons across the country have came to a halt because of budgets, ammo shortages and particularly 9mm shortages, and a lack of organized training functions. My agency has about 50 G23 Gen4 for 40 agents across the state. As recently as a month ago we were given the opportunity to get new Glocks in trade for less than what new Glock night sights would have cost. When it came down to it, we were asking for $2500 to replace our guns. Because of the current situation, they knew better than to ask.
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:36 PM
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I know that as of 2014 the Pennsylvania State Police issues the SIG P227 in .45 ACP, a rather bulky pistol which only holds 10 rounds in the magazine, but seems to have worked for them.

PA State Police seem to be fond of full-size handguns chambered in larger diameter bullets because they've been carrying .45s since 2008, and before that they carried .40cal Beretta 96Ds.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:05 PM
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Colorado State Patrol uses M&P 2.0 .40 calibers. Once upon a time they issued 4Ē Pythons.

My kid in the NOPD Academy was issued a Glock 17. They let him take it home, which seems a little strange since he doesnít graduate until December.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:26 PM
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One state police agency I know of recently switch from the G22 to G17.

They issue G43 for back up.

Long guns are a Remington 870 and I think Rock River AR.
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