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Old 10-25-2020, 10:14 AM
Cellar Hound Cellar Hound is offline
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Default DA/SA - Am I alone?

Although I have guns with all different types of action, I still really enjoy the DA/SA format. After recently purchasing a Sig P227, it made me dig through the safe to appreciate some others with the same action. HK P30 SK, Walther PPK, Beretta 92a1, Sig P230....

I actually like the heavy pull (like a revolver) on my first round and then a crisp single action break on subsequent rounds.

Am I alone or are there other DA/SA fans out there?
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:18 AM
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100% in agreement here.
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:23 AM
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I also prefer DA/SA
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:26 AM
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There are a slew of folks who love it as you will find. Me? I can definitely work with them but they aren’t my first choice for carry as a primary.

That hasn’t stopped me from amassing a large number of them. In S&W semiautos, I love the single action guns the most.
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:26 AM
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I carried DA/SA Sige and Berettas most of my career. Though I am very proficient with them, but I am having trouble conquering my 1006; I tend to push it while shooting SA, hitting low center. I’ll figure it out. My buddy has eliminated any doubt it’s the gun’s fault.
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:41 AM
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Same here, that's why I picked up 2 S&W 2nd gen. pistols recently. I have CZ's, 2 revolvers, and recently picked up a Girsan Regard copy of the Beretta 92. I wasn't planning to, but found one at a store, NIB, for $350.
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:44 AM
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I've tried concealed carrying every type of action. The last one I purchased was the DA/SA CZ PCR, and it was "just right". Been my EDC ever since.

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Old 10-25-2020, 10:51 AM
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A LOT of revolver shooters seem to like that type of action...
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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Count me in. H&K USP and a couple of Beretta Storms lead the list, but there are others.

Ed
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:04 AM
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Another DA/SA fan here. My first handgun was a Beretta 92FS. Used it in training courses. Put a few thousand rounds through it. Bought it some 25 years ago and still have it, serving as my HD gun.

My EDC is a Beretta PX4 Compact. Basically, a hammer-fired DA/SA equivalent to the Glock 19 (sort of).

I remember reading about the FBI's decision to go with DA/SA guns back in the 90s. They said the heavy DA trigger pull on the first shot added a margin of safety when holding suspects at gun point, to minimize the risk of a ND. But after the first shot, the agent was then in a gunfight and the subsequent SA trigger allowed for faster, more accurate shot placement. At the time I thought it was just a way for them to justify getting the guns they wanted, but over time I saw the logic in it.

Some people complain about the transition from DA to SA, but personally I think they're overthinking it (which is funny, coming from me... ). Regardless of action type, the process is still the same...pull trigger, bang, reset, repeat as needed. May need a little bit of an adjustment when learning, but I never found it more difficult to shoot than Glocks, 1911s, or DAO revolvers.

Of course, DA/SA isn't for everybody, just like striker-fired, DAO, or SAO isn't for everybody.

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:09 AM
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Miss my old HK P30L and SK, appreciate very much my 3914, 457, and SIG P225 and 228. They are a core group of pistols that, despite my 1911’s and striker fired 320C, are primary carry choices.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:23 AM
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I think most who don't like a conventional first shot double-action semi-auto pistol haven't used one enough to really become familiar, skilled, and comfortable with such a gun. That's not to mention the safety aspect of a gun that doesn't require a holster to keep it safe.

As for revolvers, I seldom shoot one double-action. It's good to be prepared, but I don't obsess about armed combat or gunfighting and very much enjoy taking my time using single-action for 25 yard target shooting, bullseye style with one hand.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:28 AM
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DA/SA with a safety/decocker as in M59 and PPKs.
DA/SA revolvers.
Rotating the massive cylinders on the X frames, with practice, is almost like a 2 stage trigger.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panther View Post
Same here, that's why I picked up 2 S&W 2nd gen. pistols recently. I have CZ's, 2 revolvers, and recently picked up a Girsan Regard copy of the Beretta 92. I wasn't planning to, but found one at a store, NIB, for $350.
CZís are great guns, however they never felt right in my hand. It seemed to have something to do with the trigger reach when they were set for double-action. The accuracy and functioning was flawless but I couldn't break through my mental barrier because of how it felt on my trigger finger. I was actually disappointed because the guns are so amazing.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:47 AM
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Another fan, I won't own an SA only. I prefer a long hard first pull as a first shot, there's no question you mean to fire when it takes a little extra effort. Just my personal non professional opinion.
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:52 AM
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As for single-action, I like the 1911-style setup. I've always found these pistols difficult to shoot well, but that has nothing to do with the very safe 1911 design. More to do with my shortcomings and lack of adequate practice.
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:17 PM
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Sigs for the house guns...leastways, enough to get to the long guns. 220s w/10-rd mags and tritium sights. Pretty much idiot-proof, so I have a reasonable chance
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:20 PM
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I used to be a DA/SA guy, but now I fancy myself a DAO guy.
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:29 PM
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I grew up shooting & carrying S&W wheelguns... and as much as I like SAO 1911's & BHP's.. I got over the cocked and locked carry a long time ago.. DA/SA has its place in my collection.. for me DAO & DA/SA just makes sense for carry...
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:30 PM
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DA/SA since 1988 when I moved away from cocked and locked 1911's Commanders for my .45 concealed carry needs (truth is I'd almost always opt for a K-frame .357 65/66 w/ 125gr +P.38s rather than carry Cocked and locked) in favor of a Beretta 92 Compact (13+1) and Sig 220.......
a year or so later added my first 3913 as my suit gun..... the rest is history.

Have become a real fan of "decocker only" Sigs and Beretta's I have a Performance Center DPA 5906 that's decocker only ..... wish there were more 3rd Gen Smiths with this feature.

Only one SAO Sig 1911, a CCO model, and a couple of Browing HPs in the safe.

I was a revolver shooter for over a decade (actually two with my Dad)...... shooting PPC and qualifying DAO so the DA/SA was an easy switch for me.

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Old 10-25-2020, 04:15 PM
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I honestly prefer DA/SA as well, and not just because my first carry gun was a Walther PPK/S, but because it just sort of makes sense to me for the first shot to be a heavy double action pull with all subsequent shots being lighter single action pulls. I can understand the rationality behind it being a safer system and I'm not nearly bad enough of a shot to attempt to blame double action triggers for inaccuracy at the range.

Currently I'm carrying an SW40VE, which is a striker-fired gun with an infamously stiff/heavy pre-cocked DAO trigger, but compared to the ridiculously heavy 17.5lb DA trigger on my Walther PPK/S-22, it's nothing to write home about, and the weight honestly isn't any heavier than any other DA trigger I've ever shot, it's more the complete lack of smoothness which hurts it the most.
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:22 PM
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DA/SA for me too. All my carry guns...in fact, every gun I own is DA/SA except for my one remaining Colt 1911.

And I teach tiny housewives how to shoot DA/SA pistols. They learn the "dreaded DA to SA transition" in under 30 minutes and a few mags worth of ammo.

Makes me feel embarrassed for "gun guys" who claim it is an issue. Regards 18DAI
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Truth View Post
I used to be a DA/SA guy, but now I fancy myself a DAO guy.
Me too. I love the very light half-cocked DAO triggers on SIG DAKs, Keltecs, and Rugers. On the other hand, I also love the long-take up SAO triggers on H&K LEM and Taurus pistols.

Both the light DAO and long SAO are significant innovations IMO that make the DA/SA design somewhat obsolete.

That said, I enjoy shooting DA/SA pistols and own several of them. I just don't carry them very often.

Heck, I still usually carry a Hi Power in Condition 1 and leave all my fancy new guns at home.
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:54 PM
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I do prefer DA/SA for all the reasons listed. First trigger pull longer to lessen chance of an ND. I also like thumbing the hammer as I holster. I have several.

But I carry plastic striker guns. Either a Shield or a Ruger LC9S. Both have a manual safety. For carry itís all about weight and size and there just arenít any DA/SA guns in the same size and weight category.

I agree the whole ďlearning the triggerĒ is nonsense. Anybody who calls themselves a shooter should be able to easily master it. I think most who complain just grew up shooting striker guns and donít want to change their ways.
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Old 10-26-2020, 12:01 PM
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I've always been a died-in-the-wool SA auto guy. Hard to beat that always-there short, crisp trigger. M1911's and Browning HP's are my go-to's.

But, in a complete inverse way of thinking - it's all about training and familiarity....
My last three (3) issued duty pistols were S&W's M1076, CS45 and M4566 - all DA/SA. And I shot them all very well - because I was trained with them and put in extra time myself running drills and keeping proficient.

And my latest, after being exposed to a friend's old S&W M39 was to acquire one of those, put together carry gear and extra magazines and proceed to shoot it regularly.

Wow - that ol' DA/SA shift came right back! Great shooting pistol that I'll be carrying regularly.
So - it's all about the time you put into it.
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:28 PM
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Iíll be the odd man out but I never cared for the DA/SA auto loaders. My concern is that someone could forget to decock after a self defense shooting. I realize this is a training/muscle memory thing but the immediate aftermath of a shooting can be very traumatic. My experiences were limited to my issued revolver and admittedly dated, but I was able to safely reholster after the shooting was over.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:20 PM
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I like all different types of handguns and have several DA/SA semi-autos. Almost all the ones I carry are striker-fired. That's just me though.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:30 PM
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No issues here with traditional DA autoloaders. There are some I donít care much for, but thatís just a matter of the individual design. I have no problem with the concept.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:36 PM
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I have a gaggle of DA/SA guns. Beretta, S&W, Ruger, Walther, HK, and SIG Sauer.
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Old 10-26-2020, 08:53 PM
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The Memphis PD had DA/SA pistols for a short time then went to DA only. It seems that some of the officers couldn't understand the concept of a heavier trigger pull for the first shot and a lighter pull for second and subsequent shots. This was about the same time they were considering waiving "minor" felony convictions for new hires, potential officers had to live in the city and it came down to that.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:37 PM
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On the subject of "learning the trigger" I've seen a disturbing number of folks online who are seemingly under the impression that anything but a 5lb (or less) SAO trigger is too heavy and that anything less than fully adjustable combination Fiber/Tritium sights are too inaccurate for self-defense.

I was actually in a thread on another forum in which someone honestly made the bold statement that it was physically impossible to hit a man-sized target at 35 yards with a Ruger LCP because the trigger is too heavy and the sights are too small.

I've also seen the rise of a disturbing new sentiment that anyone on any form of guard duty ought to be equipped with a red-dot reflex sight on their pistol because apparently it's just too difficult to pull off accurate shots under pressure.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:40 PM
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I prefer sa/da, metal frames, and external hammers....
but I’ll take 2 out of three.
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:18 AM
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As a division armorer for the 1st Cav. Div. in Korea in 1959 I repaired hundreds of 1911's so I know the pistol but the idea of carrying a round in the chamber with the hammer back and safety on still doesn't sit right with me. My SA/DA is a Stoeger Cougar 8045 in .45ACP. A round in the chamber and the hammer down is my idea of safe. The turning barrel on the Cougar is such a recoil absorber that I can fire the hottest .45ACP loads and not be bothered by them and shoot accurately.

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Old 10-27-2020, 08:27 AM
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When my Sheriff's Office transitioned from .357 revolvers to model 645 pistols, we had extensive training on the new type of handguns. We trained until it became second nature to decock after firing. Like you I loved the new format. I have 3 S&W pistols and a number of Walthers that use SA/DA and I would feel strange without them. I think the SA/DA is one of the best ways to make a safe pistol.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:36 AM
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I like DA/SA as I never did warm up to carrying cocked and locked. However, the SIG striker fired offerings have impressed me quite a bit! Decent trigger pull and simple and safe manual of arms.
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:49 AM
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I think a lot of it is training. I tend to agree with Jeff Coopers "an interesting solution to a non existent problem". I do own several and shoot OK with them but if I am at a range the first shot is usually SA as are the rest.
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:45 AM
hemiram hemiram is offline
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I never had any trouble with DA/SA and the comments I heard from other people at the range or LGS always amused me. Maybe because my first semiautos were a Browning BDA 380 and a Beretta 92, pretty smooth triggers to start out on.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Cellar Hound View Post
Am I alone or are there other DA/SA fans out there?
Oh no, not alone! We are still out here. Still buying them too... and not just S&W Gen 1,2,3 pistols. I love my Berettas, Sigs, Walthers and CZs too... even an HK and a Ruger or two!

But I'm not going to try to convince anyone that one system is better than another. Ya gots to get what works for you!
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:25 AM
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I'm a fan of DA/SA pistols, but I own far more revolvers. One of the more unusual guns I own is this Browning BDM. This gun has a switch that allows it to function as a DA only gun (revolver mode) or DA/SA. Very cool piece, and the thinnest high capacity gun I have ever seen. Definitely not to be confused with the Hi Power.
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Old 10-30-2020, 05:16 AM
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Probably my least favorite configuration (for an auto, love it on a revolver). In an auto I'd much prefer SA, striker fire, DAO, or even optional DA/SA like the FNX, PT92 etc. Where you can carry single action safety on, da safety on, or da safety off.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:11 AM
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Here is my take on the subject. The Walther style of DA/SA is pretty ingenious, but excessively complicated. If you only want to shoot casually at the range it's okay, but there are just too many options for its use as a self defense gun.

That's my opinion, now here are some facts. We'll compare the operation of the traditional DA/SA, with the operation of a DAO (double-action only) such as a Glock. (I know that the Glock is not a true DAO as racking the slide puts the mainspring at a partially cocked position - I call it a 1-1/2 action - but operationally it's virtually the same.)

With the traditional DA/SA, after inserting a magazine and chambering a round here are your choices:

If the safety was off when the round was chambered, you may:
  • Leave the gun as it is, hammer cocked and safety off (not advisable unless youíre immediately ready to shoot.)
  • Or decock the gun with the decocker and leave the safety on.
  • Or decock the gun with the decocker and take the safety off.
  • Or slowly decock the gun (to avoid noise?) by using the decocker, and carefully lowering the hammer with your thumb or pinched between finger and thumb and leave the safety off.
  • Or decock the gun by using the decocker and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.
  • Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger (not recommended), and carefully lowering the hammer and leave the safety off.
  • Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.
If the safety was on when you chambered a round, the hammer will follow the slide and the gun will be on-safe with the hammer down.
  • You can then leave it as it is, safety on and hammer down.
  • Or disengage the safety and leave the hammer down.
  • Or disengage the safety and cock the hammer with your thumb (only if youíre immediately ready to shoot).
Then to fire:
  • If the hammer is cocked and the safety is off, pull the trigger in single-action mode.
  • If the hammer is down and the safety is off, pull the trigger in double-action mode.
  • If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety and pull the trigger in DA mode.
  • If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety, cock the hammer manually and pull the trigger in SA mode.
Once youíve fired your first shot, you may then do any of the things in the first part above (1-7), and not necessarily the same thing you did before. Or you can shoot again in SA mode.


With the double-action only auto, once youíve loaded a round your choices are then:
  • Keep your finger off the trigger and donít shoot.
  • Or pull the trigger with a long DAO stroke and shoot.
Same choices once youíve fired your first shot. Finger off the trigger and donít shoot, or pull the trigger DAO and shoot.


If Iíve counted correctly, after chambering a round in the traditional DA/SA there are ten possible actions to take to NOT fire, and four TO fire.

With the DAO auto there is only the option to fire, or not to fire.

I know which batch of operations I'd rather try to remember in a self-defense situation. Just plinking at the range? Whatever.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:38 AM
otis24 otis24 is offline
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I would agree. Prefer DA/SA to striker fired pistols. I'm surprised that there aren't more DAO pistols out there as well. New York issued Double Action Only revolvers to police. I presume for safety reasons. I don't know if they just bobbed the hammer or if the single action option was completely deleted. That being said, it seems like a DAO pistol like the Beretta 92D would have been a great option. Long trigger pull paired with increased magazine capacity. One of the best triggers I've ever encountered was on a Kahr K9/T9. Very much like a S&W DA trigger.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K View Post
If Iíve counted correctly, after chambering a round in the traditional DA/SA there are ten possible actions to take to NOT fire, and four TO fire.

I know which batch of operations I'd rather try to remember in a self-defense situation. Just plinking at the range? Whatever.
What you call a traditional DA/SA, with the addition of a safety, is only a variation, and one which is uncommon in most current production firearms I've seen. The most common action on current production of the DA/SA (Ex. SIG, CZ) have no safety.

In a self-defense situation with these SIG-CZ type DA/SA, all you do is point and shoot, exactly the same as a DAO. The difference for me is that the follow-up SA shots are much faster and more accurate without the long DA reset, and without the problem of short-stroking the trigger reset.
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:33 PM
hammy5150 hammy5150 is offline
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The first guns I ever shot were a Glock 22 and a P229 in .40, and I took to the P229 a lot more than I did the Glock. Since then I've been almost exclusively DA/SA (and one DAO) spread between a Sig, HKs, and my little collection of 3rd Gen S&Ws. Getting a striker fired pistol is pretty far down my list of priorities and if I ever do it'll likely be out of job-induced necessity.
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