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  #1  
Old 11-11-2020, 08:30 PM
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Default A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94

I picked up this nice old rifle today. It has a Lyman 21 rear sight, which is a nicely engineered piece. I know we have some knowledgeable Winchester guys here. Anybody have info on this gun or sight to share?









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Old 11-11-2020, 08:35 PM
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Our gun season starts this weekend. I know someone for whom that rifle would be a perfect match! I even have his picture.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:30 PM
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Nice looking set up. I remember seeing those sights fairly often on 1895s, but not so much on 94s.
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Old 11-11-2020, 10:39 PM
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One beautiful model 94 and the sight it neat! We'll be waiting on a range report after you take it out. Congrats!
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:07 AM
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I think I see "30 W.C.F."; is that a .30-30 or something else? The gun is one pure beauty, and the sight just seems to send it up to another level.
Looking at this, and then my '60s or '70s era model, the older quality just kinda pours out of your gun, Shark Bait. Almost answers my question of "how do these things stand the age of time?" (Or something like that!)
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffrefrig View Post
I think I see "30 W.C.F."; is that a .30-30 or something else? The gun is one pure beauty, and the sight just seems to send it up to another level.
Looking at this, and then my '60s or '70s era model, the older quality just kinda pours out of your gun, Shark Bait. Almost answers my question of "how do these things stand the age of time?" (Or something like that!)
Yes, .30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) is the same as .30-30. I am thrilled to have found this gun today. This is why I love checking gun stores that have the old stuff. It's almost like a treasure hunt. Just today learned that an old favorite LGS recently switched to online sales only. I was really disappointed. Then I found this. I have a new favorite LGS.
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:40 AM
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Yep that old craftsmanship just jumps out at ya on these vintage guns. Am sure they would cost a bundle if made the same way with all milled parts. Would be a thrill to hunt with one like yours or a Remington Model 14 or 141.
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Old 11-12-2020, 09:36 AM
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Very classy! Congrats on a nice find.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:59 PM
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Sorry I can't answer your question about the rear sight.But I just couldn't help telling you how I am jealous!Congrats for your purchase.What a beauty!
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:17 PM
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Good looking rifle. That sight was a factory option. If I remember correctly 1907 is around the cut off for letters from Cody for Model 1894s.

That is a pretty nice rifle and a letter would certainly be worth getting.
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:21 PM
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My 30-30 Winchester is my favorite truck gun.
My Ruger .223 semi-auto with a 30 round magazine is my second.
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:59 PM
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In 1966 I bought an 1894, 20", octagon rifle for $55.00. I never could prove whether it was a cut off or original. It was a 1908, .32Winchester Special. I showed it to different Winchester guys and had different opinions on originality. I solved that problem by giving it to my son. Those old 94s just ooze history and quality. It was probably a quality done cut off.

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Old 11-14-2020, 02:39 PM
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That is simply a beautiful old rifle, one that you were fortunate to have found! Just holding it and cycling the action, it could tell stories. Unfortunately, with being in Alaska, those beauties don't pop up very often, since the area is "so new". During those early 1900s up here, the same guns saw very hard use and many didn't survive another 100 years, plus there weren't that many to begin with.

Your story of searching the LGS's for old guns makes me yearn for a few more years down the road when I can do the same.
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:21 PM
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Nice rifle and a cool sight! You can get a Cody letter up to about 360,000 on the 1894’s. Yours should be close.

That “climbin’ Lyman” is a rather valuable rear sight. I see your’s has the flip down aperture. They were offered by Winchester as an option and required extra holes in the receiver. If you have a gun that’s drilled for a Lyman 21, you’ll pay what you have to for the sight to make it whole. I’ve seen them go for $300 - $400. A close up of the rear seat blank (dovetail filler) should tell us if it’s factory work. Their blanks were rather unique.
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wundudnee View Post
In 1966 I bought an 1894, 20", octagon rifle for $55.00. I never could prove whether it was a cut off or original. It was a 1908, .32Winchester Special. I showed it to different Winchester guys and had different opinions on originality. I solved that problem by giving it to my son. Those old 94s just ooze history and quality. It was probably a quality done cut off.

Factory 1894 short rifles with barrels under 24” had forearm wood 1” shorter than standard and the rear sight dovetail was 1” closer to the receiver. When Winchester made short rifles, they took 1” off the back of the barrel.
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:27 PM
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In 1966 I bought an 1894, 20", octagon rifle for $55.00. I never could prove whether it was a cut off or original. It was a 1908, .32Winchester Special. I showed it to different Winchester guys and had different opinions on originality. I solved that problem by giving it to my son. Those old 94s just ooze history and quality. It was probably a quality done cut off.

Early 20th century,gun companies would really bend backwards to please customers.You could order your model 94(or any other model)with whatever barrel lenght and configuration you wanted for a nominal(might I add minimal)extra.So it is very possible that what you(now your son)have is a custom gun from the manufacturer.S&WCHAD gave you an easy way to check this out.You might have something highly valuable to a collector if it turns out to be from Winchester,this configuration being pretty scarce.

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Old 11-14-2020, 07:23 PM
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Nice rifle and a cool sight! You can get a Cody letter up to about 360,000 on the 1894’s. Yours should be close.

That “climbin’ Lyman” is a rather valuable rear sight. I see your’s has the flip down aperture. They were offered by Winchester as an option and required extra holes in the receiver. If you have a gun that’s drilled for a Lyman 21, you’ll pay what you have to for the sight to make it whole. I’ve seen them go for $300 - $400. A close up of the rear seat blank (dovetail filler) should tell us if it’s factory work. Their blanks were rather unique.
The serial number is 388*** so I just missed it for the letter. An image of the rear sight plug is below. It looks like the rear sight was cut off. The front sight is also marked as Lyman.

There is no evidence of a rear sight elevator being used , so I think the Lyman sight must have been added very early if not a factory installation. The wear on the sight is also on par with the wear on the rifle..Can you describe the unique blank the factory used?
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:08 PM
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Excellent find! Probably a great critter-gitter, but one of those that is getting to be too rare, valuable, and collectible to drag around in the hills and woods. Enjoy it, friend!
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:30 PM
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I would love to get a nice mule deer buck with it someday. I need to get it to the range and see if it still shoots as good as it looks. Lobo, looking forward to lunch again sometime soon. Maybe we can get some trigger time too. Be safe sir!
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:33 PM
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Wundudnee, that picture screams "MERICA"!
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:56 PM
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I picked up this nice old rifle today. It has a Lyman 21 rear sight, which is a nicely engineered piece. I know we have some knowledgeable Winchester guys here. Anybody have info on this gun or sight to share?









That is a beauty!
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:23 PM
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A very cool old classic. Looks like that sight has been on there the whole time.
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:31 PM
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Default I have some of those.

To include the four of them that hang over my fireplace in the living room. The newest one in this picture is the take down model on the bottom made in 1920.
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:38 PM
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I wonder what the spread is in point of impact from the top line to the bottom on that site? It looks like there is at least a couple of inches of adjustment from top to bottom. I would think that would make a tremendous difference in point of impact.
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:55 PM
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I wonder what the spread is in point of impact from the top line to the bottom on that site? It looks like there is at least a couple of inches of adjustment from top to bottom. I would think that would make a tremendous difference in point of impact.
I'm guessing it's far more than the cartridge is reasonably capable of. But I still wouldn't want to be on the receiving end when the bullet got there.
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:10 AM
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The serial number is 388*** so I just missed it for the letter. An image of the rear sight plug is below. It looks like the rear sight was cut off. The front sight is also marked as Lyman.

Can you describe the unique blank the factory used?
I sent this in a PM, but here’s a photo of a factory Winchester blank. They’re unmarked and perfectly flat on top with fairly sharp edges.

Winchester model 71-000_6423-jpg
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:00 PM
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From what I can tell, the sight screws fit in to the factory screws on the 1894. The front screw is where the screw for the pin for the bolt goes, and the rest looks like it all goes where the factory screws set up. A really clean looking 1894 rifle.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:24 PM
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Shot it today. First 3 rounds were under an inch at 50 yards. So far so good. Really liking this old rifle.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:25 PM
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Very nice! How long are the barrels, 26”?
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:09 AM
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I really enjoy the weight and balance of those old octagonal barrels. Last summer, I ran across one in a LGS that I was told was built in 1911. Unfortunately it had received a mediocre reblue job, with matching refinished wood somewhere along the line. I passed on it, since I own a 1967 Canadian Centennial edition reproduction of the 94 pictured. I'd still love to own one of the old , original WCF carbine models with a 20-inch octagonal barrel.
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:32 AM
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Mmmmmm, yes, delicious rifle. I had a reasonable M94 collection for awhile but I liquidated it to buy other guns. I did keep a couple.

I like that comment about about the picture screaming "America" and it made me think, in current parlance "America's rifle" is an AR-type rifle, but it wasn't so long ago that a lever rifle was "America's rifle" and for good reason!

I never owned any 94s made after USRAC took over but most of mine were post-1964. I do have one really old one, though; I need to dig it out and see what the serial number tells me about date of manufacture.

Well done, Shark Bait!

FYI, my very good friend and personal FFL recently acquired an early 20th century Model 94 Winchester .30-30 from a family down in Uvalde, a small town at the southern tip of the Texas hill country. Beautiful rifle with notches cut into the lower tang directly above the lever. We had fascinating discussions speculating who, what, when, and where with respect to the gunfights that rifle must have seen. Anyway, he sold it to a friend for $850.00, which I thought was pretty reasonable.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:33 AM
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Very nice! How long are the barrels, 26”?
I believe it's 25 or 26 inches. Haven't measured it yet.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:46 AM
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I believe it's 25 or 26 inches. Haven't measured it yet.
26" barrels were standard on 1894/94 rifles (20" on carbines). It's measured from the bolt face, which is about even with the back edge of the front receiver bridge. Shorter or longer barrels were available as an extra cost option, but they're typically in 2" increments (even numbers). There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare.
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Old 11-16-2020, 11:59 AM
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I love those rear sights though I’ve never owned one. My ‘95 Winchester appears to have had one once. I like those sights because they are retro over engineering, kind of how l look at my Savage 1899 “Stith” mount. Just beautifully machined technology of years gone by.
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Old 11-16-2020, 02:00 PM
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I believe it's 25 or 26 inches. Haven't measured it yet.
My replica Canadian Cetennial is a 26" barrel, as was the 1911 I looked at.
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  #36  
Old 11-16-2020, 02:06 PM
Mrnurse Mrnurse is offline
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A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94  
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Your Lyman Sight was popular for 80+ years... Move the lever to unlock, adj from 50 to 500 Yds. Got 1 on my 1921 1895 in 30-06.
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  #37  
Old 11-16-2020, 02:28 PM
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A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94  
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I believe Lyman stopped making them in 1943. The sight adds an extra "cool" factor to the gun. I shot it yesterday and my first three rounds grouped under an inch at 50 yards.
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  #38  
Old 11-16-2020, 04:55 PM
Mrnurse Mrnurse is offline
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A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94 A 1907 Vintage Winchester 94  
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DOM 1894 to 1949 for a wide range of rifles.
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