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  #51  
Old 12-11-2020, 04:47 PM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
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A good 22 rifle is hard to beat for survival gun. Not the best for shoot outs but for gathering small game they shine. A notch up would be a 0/U with 410. As with the AR-7 a U/O is worthless unless accurate.
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  #52  
Old 12-11-2020, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
A good 22 rifle is hard to beat for survival gun. Not the best for shoot outs but for gathering small game they shine. A notch up would be a 0/U with 410. As with the AR-7 a U/O is worthless unless accurate.
I'd opt for a .22mag over .22lr ...... my CZs will shoot under the crosshairs out to/past 100yds... the Ruger Am isn't quite as good..... but .22mag will take larger game at longer ranges......and has the same muzzle energy as a 9mm. Ammo is still light enough to carry 200-300rds

I'd view a "survival situation" as one where you are hoping to be found..... or..... working to avoid unwelcome human contact.

In the end fun to think about but....... in reality...... more like the daydreams of Walter Mitty

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Old 12-11-2020, 06:43 PM
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In the end fun to think about but....... in reality...... more like the daydreams of Walter Mitty
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  #54  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:12 PM
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I stand by that ..... but ..... but better to be prepared than caught unawares if the SHTF...................................or worse
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  #55  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser9 View Post
Am going to include my newer Ruger American compact in 22 magnum with the shorter 18 inch barrel. Synthetic stock and gun is very light for carry and still packs a wallop up close for some varmints. Nice gun for the $280 I paid for it.
Me too. 1" groups at 100 yards all day long with 40 gn solids.
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  #56  
Old 12-11-2020, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
Survival to me means killing small game to eat?
A BB gun or pellet gun will do it very quietly not to attract people. The old single shot and pump 22’s using 22 shorts would work.

During the depression the my great uncle the story goes he would shoot small birds lined up on the peak, roof of the chicken coop. My great aunt would clean them and in tomato sauce they went. That’s survival at its finest.

Survival for self defense is another story. A 12 ga with “00” buck end of story.
For “no messin’ around” small game gathering, the shotgun remains supreme.
Throw in social situations, my first choice might be something else.
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  #57  
Old 12-11-2020, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
I would imagine if SHTF did come to pass, .gov troops would be everywhere. Re supply of 5.56 would be through "barter/ pilferage/ picking up leftovers" so I'd have this with me. Joe

See, this is where things have gone off the rails.

The "survivalists" and preppers with their "SHTF" rifles have co-opted the term by association.

The discussion used to be based around a light, compact, easy to stow and carry rifle that could be used to help you survive in the wild by enabling you to hunt small and medium game while you either await rescue or walk out to civilization.

To a lesser extent it's also a means to defend yourself against wolves, etc, although that's about 95% hollywood BS. Unless you are in a really remote area and/or the wolves are really hungry, they are going to avoid people like the plague, since they associate humans and their smell with pack mates getting shot or trapped.

"Survival rifles" have traditionally been rifles like:

- the USAF issued bolt action telescoping wire buttstock Harrington Richards M4 .22 Hornet survival rifle that used to fit in the seat pan survival kit in an ejection seat;

- the slightly larger break open over and under M6 Aircrew Survival Weapon based on the same concept in combinations of .22 LR/.22 Hornet, ,22LR/.410, and .22LR/.45 Colt. This also includes the Springfield Armory and CZ civilian M6 Scout.

- the USAF issued bolt action Armalite AR-5/MA-1 .22 Hornet survival rifle where the components all fit in the buttstock.

- Military based civilian survival rifles like the the Armalite AR-7, subsequently made by both Charter Arms and Henry. It is a semi-auto version of the AR-5 where again the entire rifle fits in the stock, and will float in water in that configuration.

- Civilian back packing rifles like the Chiappa Little Badger or the Savage Model 42.

- And finally take down versions of a number of .22 LR and centerfire rifles - (10/22, Model 39, 9422, Model 92 and Model 94 WInchester take downs, Marlin Model 70, Browning SA22, Ruger PC carbine, etc, etc, etc.

-----

Then we start to have some "drift" away from what a survival rifle actually is.

The current Chiappa M6 X Barrel is a derivative of the M6 in the form of the their enlarged version of it using a 12 gauge barrel on top and a .22 LR barrel underneath. They also include their X-Caliber inserts for .380 auto, 9mm, .357 Magnum, .40 Smith & Wesson, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP, 20-gauge shotgun and .410 caliber shot shells, and of course you can shoot .38 special in the .357 Mag, and .44 Special in the .44 Mag.

However, given that all those inserts weight 4.5 pounds all by themselves, it's really stepped over the line into post apocalyptic prepper territory. It's a shoot what you can scrounge approach, - except it ironically does not include inserts for the civilian/military .223/5.56 NATO, .308/7.62 NATO, 7.62x39, and 5.45x39 rounds that are likely to be most commonly found in any self respecting post apocalyptic science fiction fantasy.

-----

There is also the current USAF issue 5.56x45mm NATO GAU-5A, which is based on the AR-15/M4 series.

However it also deviates from the traditional definition of survival rifle. Then again the USAF is upfront about it as it is classed as an "aircrew self-defense weapon", not a "aircrew survival weapon".

It's basically an M4 carbine modified to a take down configuration with a folding pistol grip to make it small enough to fit in a seat pan sized survival kit. (You can get a civilian version of it from Midwest Industries that uses a Cry Havoc quick release barrel system.)

----

Unfortunately, if you do an internet search for "survival rifle" the vast majority of hits and reviews will be for the "SHTF" flavor of mis named "survival rifle".
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  #58  
Old 12-11-2020, 09:09 PM
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Marlin M-795 .22 and a stainless .357 revolver with some .38 ammo, too.
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  #59  
Old 12-12-2020, 09:14 AM
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I understand that space and weight are important considerations on a plane, but IMHO something like the drillings issued to the Luftwaffe would be a better choice, 2 shotgun barrels and a rifle powerful enough to bring down big game-or two legged rats. Fired a buddy's AR-7 years ago, found it rather crude, the sights especially, the lack of a forearm made it hard to get a good grip on it. And I'd prefer a bolt action, easier to maintain and repair.
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  #60  
Old 12-12-2020, 09:56 AM
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Ruger 10/22 take down. SS barrel. I finally bought one after trying to nickel and dime the pricing of them down to the lowest amount possible. Then I realized most guns I buy are 2x to 4x the cost of a 10/22. So just bought one at going rate. You get a lot of gun for the price point for sure.
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  #61  
Old 12-12-2020, 10:40 AM
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Survival gun is not a set of guns. It’s one gun and has a task. That could be just to gather food, protection from animals and protection from humans.
You never know when you are going to run into a rabid kangaroo or big foot so what you are planning to survive is how you pick the gun. I’m sure somebody is marketing a survival gun safe with wheels.
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  #62  
Old 12-12-2020, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
In the end fun to think about but....... in reality...... more like the daydreams of Walter Mitty
Every weekend you can go to the desert around my home and see every iteration of Walter Mitty playing with his AR, long distance rifle or 9mm. Sometimes all three.
You can tell the type. Always wearing camo, have a drag bag for their rifle and their 9 is in a holster on their thigh.

I often wonder if the folks playing paint ball games are not better prepared for the fantasia of SHTF.
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:02 AM
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My Savage 24V in .223 over 20ga makes a great combo.
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  #64  
Old 12-12-2020, 11:08 AM
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With all said I kinda wish Ruger would take another shot with the 96/22M. Maybe they can figure out the power curve of the 22 magnum for semiauto like Savage did with the A-22 magnum. A Ruger 10-22 style in 22 mag. with synthetic stock sounds great for a survival gun with the 18 inch barrel.
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  #65  
Old 12-12-2020, 11:22 AM
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my wife is pretty happy with her 10-22, https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3C8QCX/IMG-20...m/IMG-2064.jpgnikon prostaff rimfire scope with warne quick detach rings
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:24 AM
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:30 AM
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Winchester Model 70 in .223
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:38 AM
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My survival/ truck gun is a pawn shop rescued 9422m 22mag. I keep a butt stock pouch on it and a para cord sling. The pouch holds 2 tic-tac box’s of ammo (each box’s holds 26 rounds) a bore snake a mini bic and thumb screwdriver bits. The butt stock its self holds 8 more rounds some zip ties and 2 big sheets of heavy aluminum foil folded and rolled. You can see why it’s a rescue.
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:49 AM
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Aluminum foil is to make a protective hat???????



your #1 need will be clean water..... so don't forget your lifestraw or lifestraw water bottle.
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:10 PM
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My "survival rifle" is a Ruger American compact .22lr. I've filled the hollow stock with a few things... kinda like the "Rambo survival knife" that you could win at the state fair back in the 80's.

I have some extra rounds, magnesium fire starter, some paracord, some iodine tablets. Just a few things like that. Probably is more of a daydream or fantasy though since the rifle is typically in the safe at home when I am out and about. Even when camping and hiking, I'm not carrying it.
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  #71  
Old 12-12-2020, 12:30 PM
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Bam-Bam, since we we live in the same region. You know the two resources we are not lacking are water and reasons to wear foil hats. I do keep life straws in all of the packs and vehicles.
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Old 12-12-2020, 01:23 PM
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Bam-Bam, since we we live in the same region. You know the two resources we are not lacking are water and reasons to wear foil hats. I do keep life straws in all of the packs and vehicles.
Boys are both getting lifeStraws and lifestraw bottles in their stockings.

Oldest moved to Filthydelphia last week...... over the years set him up with a M&P .22 compact and Ruger 10/22 youth model now in a M-1 Carbine stock... good folding knife..... some other stuff to get home!
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:03 PM
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Standard 10-22 with aftermarket ATI folding stock. The rail is riser-style, so I can still use the iron sights.

My other choice is my 77-357 with 4x9 scope paired with my S&W .357.
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:07 PM
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I had a takedown 10/22 but didn't like the problems with the scope mounted on the receiver and not the barrel. That leads to problems maintaining zero. Early Brownings had that problem so they moved the scope mounting location from the receiver to the barrel. I have more accurate 22's, but I guess my youth model 10/22 would be my pick because it's compact, accurate enough, and reliable.
The 10-22 takedown I have been shooting holds it's zero well. Would never want a barrel mounted scope, it affects the harmonics of the barrel. Be Safe,
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:16 PM
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I don't need a survival gun because I'm old and not going anywhere that has less modern conveniences than my home. If I wanted a SHTF gun it would be a gun that shoots a bunch of bullets in a hurry. Larry

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Old 12-12-2020, 02:17 PM
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Had AR-7' from 3 different makers over the years, but no Henry. All were less than 'Meh' and I had little confidence in any of the 3. Got my first one in the late 70's, an Armalite, IIRC, for $70.00 or

Then, in 2004 or so, I got a Marlin Papoose. WAY more expensive than the AR, but it WAS a Marlin after all and I could afford it. Ran good from the git, but really smoothed out after I let my son and a friends son run a brick of CCI SV through it at the friends backyard range.

With the padded case, it's easy to chunk in the trunk for long trips if need be and so far, has served my need well
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I have a SS papoose, threaded for can, 25 rd mags,+ 3 50 rd boxes in pack. Quiet, accurate, dependable. A AR in a small case, 223 and 300 BO barrel with a can takes care of short and medium needs. Be Safe,
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:33 PM
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I have a Henry survival rifle. The whole thing fits into the stock.
I hate it honestly.
But its got a purpose.
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Old 12-12-2020, 03:59 PM
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I have a TPS Arms M6 Scout in .357/.410...great woods gun.
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:31 PM
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I think my HK 300 22 magnum auto would qualify here, as mentioned before, you would be able to carry quite a bit of ammo with you on your person, if needed.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:23 AM
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KelTec KSG. Short, handy, powerful, a great variety of ammunition capable of taking out any critter North America. Kinda heavy, but my choice.

I'm surprised not to see more shotguns selected.....
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Old 12-13-2020, 01:08 PM
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I have a few that qualify.
A Savage 24 C DL that is 22 WMR/20 Ga 3” that is good for any edible game animal that is in my area. I carry 30 rounds of 22 WMR and 20 rounds of mixed 20 ga shells from #6 to Slugs along with a cleaning kit in a takedown case.

The next is an older H&R Handy Gun II with a 22 Hornet and 20 barrel in a take down case with a similar mix of ammo to the Savage 24.

I consider these to be more of a carry in the boat, truck, tractor firearms to take care of vermin and to be ready for unexpected hunting opportunities.

I also have an ancient, but very serviceable JP Sauer Drilling in 9.3x72R over 16 SxS barrels. If I could obtain a 22 lr insert for the rifle barrel it would do for everything I will encounter.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP-5 View Post

I just bring Chuck on all my camping trips!
And Chuck Norris can start a fire with a magnifying glass. At night.

16x16/8x57R. Birdshot, buckshot and a full power rifle. And it breaks down into two shorter pieces.
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Old 12-13-2020, 03:12 PM
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A quick tip for Papoose owners, especially the stainless version.

If you do any extended shooting you know the bbl nut will back off and loosen up. A simple hack takes care of having to keep cranking down with the spanner wrench.

Simply wrap the threads with the white silicon plumbers tape (I keep one in the case with the rifle). With the tape, just snugging it up tight, without needing to crank on the spanner, will see you through extended shooting sessions.

What amazes me is, not one of the many Youtube 'tests', or, evaluations mentions this simple solution. But, most mention the nut working loose. Go figure!

Rob
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Old 12-13-2020, 03:29 PM
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Default Savage 24. 22 MAG over 410

Recently picked this up at a local gun store. Very nice handy gun. Breaks down to duffel bag size and carrying lots of ammo doesn’t break your back. I had to put peep sight on it for my old eyes.

Older one with walnut wood.

My boy has a couple of the 10-22 takedowns in their back packs

I have been looking for a savage 357/20 for years, but either don’t have cash when they appear or the price is outrageous

Good hunting

Kelly
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Old 12-13-2020, 04:06 PM
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Well, one or more of these might fill the ticket for specific roles...

John






































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Old 12-13-2020, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetdog1911 View Post
A quick tip for Papoose owners, especially the stainless version.

If you do any extended shooting you know the bbl nut will back off and loosen up. A simple hack takes care of having to keep cranking down with the spanner wrench.

Simply wrap the threads with the white silicon plumbers tape (I keep one in the case with the rifle). With the tape, just snugging it up tight, without needing to crank on the spanner, will see you through extended shooting sessions.

What amazes me is, not one of the many Youtube 'tests', or, evaluations mentions this simple solution. But, most mention the nut working loose. Go figure!

Rob
While I haven't had this issue so much with mine, it is a great idea. I've got a couple of rolls of that Teflon tape and will slide one into the case! Thanks for the tip!!

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Old 12-13-2020, 04:43 PM
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Here is what I would want for minimal survival gear. A good fixed blade knife with a bout a 6-8" blade, a fire piston, a 10'x10', sheet of visqueen, my 4" kit gun, 50' of good 1/8" cable. 100yds of 20# mono and some #2 hooks. A one gallon steel pot.

Visqueen- dig a wide hole a ft of more deep. Put your pot in the center. Put visqueen over it and you have a solar still. Stick anything with moisture in it under the visqueen, dirty water salt water, weeds what ever. Heat will condensate moisture which will collect on plastic run to low spot in center caused by rock and drip in pot. Drinkable water.
If it rains it will both collect water and keep me dry.

Cable means snares which hunt 24x7. Don't need clips as you can make a look with a simple double loop. So does mono and hooks as well as set lines for fish Way better than hunting. A baited hook set to be about 6' under water will also catch and drown ducks. Survival isn't about sport.

A fire piston works. Better than flint and steel, not as fragile as a magnifying glass and no sun needed.

A 22 wins because of ammo weight. A carton of 500 weighs a less than 250 223s and less than 50 shotgun shells

I can boil water in the pot, make stew and soups.
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Old 12-13-2020, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
See, this is where things have gone off the rails.

The "survivalists" and preppers with their "SHTF" rifles have co-opted the term by association.

The discussion used to be based around a light, compact, easy to stow and carry rifle that could be used to help you survive in the wild by enabling you to hunt small and medium game while you either await rescue or walk out to civilization.
I'm inclined to agree that there is a difference between a survival firearm and a SHTF weapon, although their may be situations where the line is fuzzy.

A survival firearm may have different requirements based on region of the country you're located in and the geopolitical situation, i.e, city, suburban, rural, or remote.

For me and my location, I'm thinking I'd more likely experience a failure in infrastructure and since I consider my area rural, the survival description from BB57 above is as good a description as any. As a result, I think I agree with many who have already posted that a good .22LR rifle fits many of the needs, and as already noted by several it's hard to beat a Ruger 10/22, especially the takedown model. I know my 10/22 Takedown LITE has proven to be quite accurate and reliable and the screw on HTA SS suppressor would prove to be quite handy as well.

I used to would have added that with a .22LR you know ammo would not be that difficult to come by, but I think we've proved that's not necessarily true any longer.

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Old 12-13-2020, 05:12 PM
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Default The Winchester Model 60A

I'm with the posters to whom a "survival gun" is meant to feed one's self and family from small game. And as far as shot discipline goes, the single shot is the best way that I know of.
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Old 12-13-2020, 05:33 PM
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I admit I used to have a Savage 24 .22LR/20 gauge as a “survival gun” in my rig when I roamed the wilds of Montana, Idaho, and New Mexico. Then I realized if I did break an axle or something far from help my first instinct would not be to go small game hunting, especially since I had a week’s worth of MREs with me.

Now the survival gun in my rig is an old evidence room 12 gauge JC Higgins pump. It cost me 75 bucks. I have a bandoleer of OO buck and rifled slugs. No bird shot.

Its the top one. I had to give the other one back when I retired.
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Old 12-13-2020, 08:40 PM
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Surprised no one has mentioned a Kel Tec sub 2000.I can carry it in a lap top case.4 32 rd glock mags fit nicely in the front pocket.A 17+2 mag in the grip makes a pretty compact package.A hunting companion carried one in the over head compartment of his rig for years until he retired.
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Old 12-15-2020, 02:43 AM
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The "takedown AR" is a Marck -15 or HYDRA from MGI Industries. The case is slightly longer than 17" diagonally, and about the thickness of a double pistol case. You drop the mag, clear the chamber, flip the switch and pull out the barrel and separate lower from scoped upper and fit them into case. Along with a 556 and 300BO barrel, are magazines, suppressor, and suppressor adaptor so you can use 30 cal can on 223 rifle. They have options to switch to 22 LR, 7.62 X 39, 458 socom, 25-45,6.8 spc, 6.5 grendel, 450 thumper, 9mm,5.45 x 39. Of course you would need mags, new bolts for the other calibers, but the 556/300 BO only need the barrel change. You can go from cased to firing in about 2 minutes, with practice. I have had it for a number of years, and it holds it's zero from disassembly to assembly, out to angle of deer with 300 BO subsonic, and 223/300 BO supersonic, I have not pushed it further. In a survival/ SHTF situation, I believe low profile and quiet is the way to go.
Here is a link to their site. mgi-military.com. Be Safe,
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Old 12-15-2020, 09:54 AM
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The closest I have is a Marlin Camp 9, and a Remington Nylon 66, nuttin' fancy.
Steve W
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Old 12-15-2020, 10:04 AM
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The closest I have is a Marlin Camp 9, and a Remington Nylon 66, nuttin' fancy.
Steve W
Nice pair..... the Camp 9 pairs nicely with a 59xx Smith!!!!
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Old 12-15-2020, 10:35 AM
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Depends on what you’re surviving from. I guess I’d go with one of my Flat top AR15s with detachable optics, open sights and both 223/556 and .22lr BCGs. However, a Savage 24 of some form would be interesting.
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:00 AM
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Someone made the point earlier....and I agree there's a big difference between a "Survival" rifle and a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI rifle.
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Old 12-15-2020, 01:04 PM
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To me a survival situation is where I need to live off the land for a period of time. You can go with out for for a week or so, and that means if I need a gun its longer than that. Shotguns are nice hard to miss kill almost anything close. But the ammo is heavy and the range is short. 22s win simply because of the ammo's lack of weight and bulk. I can get a couple of good hits in with a 22 at 100 yds, impossible with a shot gun.

But, snares, dead falls and the like are far more effective than hunting. Given the choice between a 22 rifle and the same weight in 3/32 "or 1/8" cable snare cable, I would take the cable every time. It is going be working 24 hours a day every day even when I am sleeping.

Last edited by steelslaver; 12-15-2020 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 12-15-2020, 01:34 PM
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97 posts and nobody has mentioned the iconic Browning take down .22??????? WHATSUPWITHTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-15-2020, 01:36 PM
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"survival gun" = put food in your belly when out in the wild (at least my interpretation)

anyone have experience w one of these?
at -$300 and readily available , look really cool to me......
Henry AR-7
8+1
16.5" broken down @ 3.5lbs

OP - Thanks for posting this thread. I just talked myself into a new Christmas present
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Old 12-15-2020, 02:34 PM
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97 posts and nobody has mentioned the iconic Browning take down .22??????? WHATSUPWITHTHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't think I've ever seen one in person!!
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