Another Remington Rand 1911A1

[F4phantom]

It appears I have become an accidental collector of vintage war pistols. The latest one is a RR 1911A1.
My brother was a merchant marine. During the Vietnam war he was on ships that supplied supplies to the US forces. He was there at the end of the war. The ship he was on was evacuating ARVN civilians and soldiers. He said it was very chaotic since the people wanted to get out of the country. As they were boarding the ship they had to get rid of their weapons. Most of the weapons were tossed into the ocean. He managed to grab a couple of AR15's and 1911's. This is one of them.
I am now the owner of a 1916 DWM Luger, a 1934 Mauser 32 cal pocket pistol with holster, a Victory S&W 38 and now a Remington Rand 1911A1.
From what I can tell and have been told is that the frame was from early 1944, The slide is a type II and the barrel was made by Colt. So, all the parts are from the same era, this appears to be a refurbished 1911A1. The grips have the same mold number. Still, it appears to be in reasonably good shape. Since I carried one briefly in VN, it means something to me. I probably carried a Colt but this one brings back the memories.


After some searching around, it appears I have a franken gun. The frame is RR with serial number around the beginning/middle of 1944, the slide is a type 2, the trigger appears to be milled (Colt?), hammer is RR type 2, slide stop is serrated circa '43-45, barrel is Colt and the magazine is Risdon for Colt i.e. marked C-R. The original must have really messed up or the armorer went crazy.

[waffles]

Very nice pistol. Good motivation for me to get off my butt and get my CMP paperwork in, I may have been biased by all the WW2 and vietnam movies I saw as a kid but the 1911A1 has to be just about the best looking pistol ever made.

[Dave from Pa]

Nice pistol, looks like a Colt trigger too.I bet it could tell tell some stories.

[gregintenn]

There's a nice one for sale locally. I'd love to buy it, but can't get a handle on what a reasonable price would be.
I like yours!

[CQB27]

That's a beautiful.....in an old warrior kind of way.

[VaTom]

Originally Posted by Dave from Pa

Nice pistol, looks like a Colt trigger too.I bet it could tell tell some stories.

Yes Colt machined trigger from time period up through 1943-early 1944. The stamped Yawman trigger developed by Ithaca became standard on all military 1911a1s later in war production. Was cheaper to produce.

Nice piece.

[Spajohn]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

There's a nice one for sale locally. I'd love to buy it, but can't get a handle on what a reasonable price would be.
I like yours!

I've wanted one of those for years, WWII or earlier. You can go down a rabbit hole to follow all of the manufacturers. The Singer sewing machine company made about 500 of them. These are the holy grail of M1911A1's
When the Singer Sewing Machine Company Built the Best .45 Pistol Ever Made
I think Remington Rand made a buttload of them, as well as Argentina.
Since the main point of manufacture was interchangeability of parts, lots of parts got...interchanged. But even if the parts numbers don't match, they're still a hoot to shoot.
From a collector standpoint, ya really gotta know what you're looking at.
As an homage to the Singer 1911A1's I converted one of my sewing machines to 50cal.

[Golphin]

The one I bought through CMP is a 1943 RR with a colt slide.

[VaTom]

Originally Posted by Spajohn

I've wanted one of those for years, WWII or earlier. You can go down a rabbit hole to follow all of the manufacturers. The Singer sewing machine company made about 500 of them. These are the holy grail of M1911A1's
When the Singer Sewing Machine Company Built the Best .45 Pistol Ever Made
I think Remington Rand made a buttload of them, as well as Argentina.
Since the main point of manufacture was interchangeability of parts, lots of parts got...interchanged. But even if the parts numbers don't match, they're still a hoot to shoot.
From a collector standpoint, ya really gotta know what you're looking at.
As an homage to the Singer 1911A1's I converted one of my sewing machines to 50cal.

A good online source of information about the war production 1911A1s is "Ty's Coolgunsite". Has all the information about different markings, serial numbers, changes to various small parts, on the different manufacturers. Remington Rand made over 1 million, Ithaca and Colt about 350,000 each and US Switch and Signal about 35,000, and Singer 500. That's where I schooled myself before buying mine 14 years old. A 1943 all original Ithaca.

[gregintenn]

Any idea what a nice unaltered specimen should sell for now?

[VaTom]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Any idea what a nice unaltered specimen should sell for now?

I am no expert but have followed them for some time.

Colt, Ithaca, US Switch and Signal would bring premium over the Remington Rand just due to numbers made. The US Military did not purchase any more 1911A1s after the war as they had enough. A lot of arsenal rebuilds (after war) and ordnance company rebuilds in the field during the war result in many pistols with different parts. WWII contracts for all manufacturers required that all parts had to be interchangeable between makers. Thus all original specimens bring premium.

Colt, Flanery Bolt Company and High Standard made barrels.
Scovill (S), Risdon (R), Little(L) and General Shaver (G) made magazines. Marked on toe of magazine. Ones used by Colt have a C prefix.

An all original (small parts matching to correct year of manufacture as well as correct barrel) with correct WWII contract magazine - my estimate would be from a low of $2,000 upwards to what someone is willing to pay.

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by VaTom

I am no expert but have followed them for some time.

Colt, Ithaca, US Switch and Signal would bring premium over the Remington Rand just due to numbers made. The US Military did not purchase any more 1911A1s after the war as they had enough. A lot of arsenal rebuilds (after war) and ordnance company rebuilds in the field during the war result in many pistols with different parts. WWII contracts for all manufacturers required that all parts had to be interchangeable between makers. Thus all original specimens bring premium.

Colt, Flanery Bolt Company and High Standard made barrels.
Scovill (S), Risdon (R), Little(L) and General Shaver (G) made magazines. Marked on toe of magazine. Ones used by Colt have a C prefix.

An all original (small parts matching to correct year of manufacture as well as correct barrel) with correct WWII contract magazine - my estimate would be from a low of $2,000 upwards to what someone is willing to pay.

Thanks. One more question. What would a nice rebuild be worth?

[cmansguns]

First place....long before value can be ascertained is to know for sure that the one you are looking at is a: "nice" (you'll have to define nice in your eyes and thinking); b: "unaltered"..becuase of GI issue and duty, a really, truly, unaltered since the day it left the factory is very, very rare. Most all have been in company arms rooms, where routinely they were field stripped (sometimes detail stripped), parts swapped after cleaning, including barrels, barrel links, grips. Mostly you'll never find an example with the proper magazine because these were not issued for guard mount in non combat zones (I know..I know..but that was Army thought process).

And note..I'm not even mentioning the many, many depot level overhauls, and Army Depot refurbishments, including re-parking, etc.

I can remember numerous times when a battalion or division level IG was due and we had the whole company in the arms room, and spread out into the day room, stripping and cleaning (yea..the toothbrush routine) M14's, M60's, M79's, 1911A1's and on and on. Piles of mags in a box, piles of barreled receivers on the floor (on poncho halves), other piles of stocks, grips, handguards, bayonets....all getting "cleaned" by draftee GI's, supervised by lifers...and everyone waiting for smoke break or chowtime...NOBODY cared about matching grips, barrels, magazines......gettem clean, pass Tops quick looksee, gettem assembled and back in the racks.

When I started ages ago to collect mil-surps, 1911A1's were right up there on my list so I bought many good books to educate myself as the prices were high even back then, so books like US Handguns of WWII (Charles Pate), and Colt Firearms (Rick Sapp), and US Military Automatic Pistols 1920-1945 (Edward Scott Meadows); and finally US Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 (J.C. Harrison) were worth the cost and invaluable for identifying the "real thing" when looking to buy.

As to current value and reasonable price, if you find the one you are looking at is the real thing then be prepared to dump anywhere from $2,500 to $3,000 but do your research first and don't buy someone's listing or story.

Of mine that were "all correct" the Colt (April 1945) sold 6 years ago for $2,600, the Remington Rand (Dec 1943) sold 7 years ago for $2,100 and I still have the Nov 1943 Ithaca and was offered $2,600 about a year ago and turned it down because I still want to have a WWII 1911A1 in my collection.

Again... the books noted above will tell you what magazine lip stamps would be correct for the gun you are looking at and if the mag is NOT correct for that gun, genuine mags are at $100 these days, with a GS (General Shaver) mag for a Remington Rand going for even sky high bucks.

Good luck pursuing that nice one, and please come back if you do get it and post some pics...there may just be an unaltered unicorn out there in the wild, and even if it isn't, post anyway..cause these guns are iconic and real true "history in your hand".

[VaTom]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Thanks. One more question. What would a nice rebuild be worth?

Many arsenal rebuilds by the military were re-parkerized. A military arsenal rebuild have a rebuild marking stamped on the frame on the side where the serial number is located (right hand). Most common are RIA (Rock Island Arsenal) and AA (Anniston Arsenal). If it was rebuilt by field units during the war it would not be marked.

I would say an arsenal rebuild with slide and frame matching (same manufacturer) would be around $1,500 - $2,000. With non matching frame and slide $1,200- $1,500.

[VaTom]

Great information cmansguns. I came across a 1943 Colt (all original) that a family friend owns. The family story is that it was a war bring back by a great uncle and then passed through several family members as each person passed until it ended up with this family when the wife's father passed. They really didn't know what they had until I was asked to look at it (along with other firearms that they inherited). I was floored! Field stripped it and cleaned and lubed. Also had a box of war issue .45 ammo that came with it! Offered a fair price but no deal - don't blame them as family heirloom. I asked for first refusal if they ever decided to sell it. Here is a picture. Note the heat treated slide.

[gregintenn]

Sir, I apologize for derailing your thread. I just get excited when someone flashes an old 1911 or 1911 A-1.

[4barrel]

I bought a Remington Rand in the 70's made in 1942 and it has a Colt barrel. I think they came that way. I still have it. A friend of mine's uncle bought this one in a pawn shop in 1952. It appears to never have been used. There is also a full 50 round box of E C 42 head stamp with the gun in very good condition. There are 2 boxes but one came apart and the ammo looks ok.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by VaTom

Many arsenal rebuilds by the military were re-parkerized. A military arsenal rebuild have a rebuild marking stamped on the frame on the side where the serial number is located (right hand). Most common are RIA (Rock Island Arsenal) and AA (Anniston Arsenal). If it was rebuilt by field units during the war it would not be marked.

I would say an arsenal rebuild with slide and frame matching (same manufacturer) would be around $1,500 - $2,000. With non matching frame and slide $1,200- $1,500.

AA is Augusta Arsenal.

Anniston is either AN or AND.

[Golphin]

Here is the one I got from CMP it is a 1943 RR with a Colt slide. Great shooter and I am sure it was in service through several wars. Like stated above those guns were torn down and put back together over the years without regard to keeping the original parts on each pistol.

[VaTom]

Originally Posted by Kurusu

AA is Augusta Arsenal.

Anniston is either AN or AND.

Thanks for correction😊 My age memory isn't as good as it used to be. Forgot about Augusta.

[Kurusu]

Originally Posted by VaTom

Thanks for correction😊 My age memory isn't as good as it used to be. Forgot about Augusta.

No big wonder. It closed around the time I was born.

[TeamPB]

Field grade. Shoots very well. I really like it.