Strange muzzle??

deadin · #1 01-17-2021, 02:56 PM

Anybody seen a muzzle treatment like this?
I've seen similar on a muzzle loader (supposedly to "ease" starting the ball or bullet), but this is on a cartridge revolver. (Actually on a cartridge conversion from a M1858 Remington C&B revolver.)
Any guesses as to why? and what it was supposed to do?

s&wchad · #2 01-17-2021, 03:35 PM

Never seen anything like that. Those weren't loaded from the muzzle, so why anyone would do that is beyond me.

Here's a closed auction that shows what the muzzle of an 1858 Remington should look like.

Lot Detail - (A) FINE ORIGINAL REMINGTON MODEL 1858 SINGLE ACTION PERCUSSION REVOLVER.

mtgianni · #3 01-17-2021, 03:46 PM

I thought is was a Dan Wesson wrench style but have no idea what someone would do that to a BP gun for. I cannot imagine it improves groups.

2152hq · #4 01-17-2021, 04:24 PM

Just a bit of decorative filing done at the muzzle.

You'll see such work more commonly on muzzleloader bbls, some of it quite a bit more extensive. All decorative and does nothing to add to accuracy nor loading ease (in the case of the M/Ldrs).

I believe the deep groove rifling of the period kind of begged for the type of decoration from some of the gunsmiths building the M/Ldrs.
I'm not surprised it shows up on a cartridge conversion C&B revolver a little later on.

Jon651 · #5 01-17-2021, 04:33 PM

I'm guessing it was an early attempt at providing an equal and even pathway for the exhaust gasses pushing the bullet so as not to induce a wobble or tumble on exit from the muzzle. We can't see down the barrel to determine if it is rifled or if the lands and grooves match the notches on the muzzle.

deadin · #6 01-17-2021, 05:31 PM

This gun is a bit of an enigma. I've owned it for around 10 years and the previous owner said it came from his father and he remembered it being at least 50 or 60 years in the gun cabinet, so it has been in its present configuration for at least 70 years. I think it is a much earlier conversion as it is in 44 Remington Centerfire. This cartridge was almost unique to the early Model 1875 Army Model which was only in production for a few years. (Remington changed the chambering of the 1875 to either 44/40 or 45 Colt fairly early in production. (44 Rem CF apparently was popular for use in conversions.)
BTW the barrel is rifled and the muzzle grooves line up with the lands and grooves of the barrel.

Here are some of the other odd things about this conversion:

The cylinder is purpose made to 44 Rem CF and not the normal “conversion” using a two piece cylinder. This required putting a spacer on the recoil shield and fabricating a new hammer.
What looks like a loading gate is merely there to allow the cylinder to be removed for extraction and reloading. The space below the barrel that existed on an original that allowed the bullet/ball to be placed at the front of the chamber for ramming has been filled in and nicely sheeted over. The rammer will only pull down far enough to allow the axis pin to be withdrawn. There is coarse (crude) checkering on the backstrap, the tab on the cylinder gate and the hammer spur. The front sight could be rough adjusted for windage and, with a change of blade, for elevation. (See pictures below.)

All in all, I think of this as a “labor of love” by some gunsmith or hobbyist.

StrawHat · #7 01-18-2021, 09:47 AM

I have forgotten a bit about the Remington conversions but I do recall the 44 RF and also a 46 caliber conversion(cf or rf, I do not recall.). I am not aware of any of the originals being converted to 45 long Colt, that is an Italian marketing ploy to sell revolvers to the gamers.

Kevin

deadin · #8 01-18-2021, 10:21 AM

Quote:

I am not aware of any of the originals being converted to 45 long Colt

The 45 Colt I referred to was a later chambering in the M1875 SA Army, not a conversion of the 1858. In fact Remington even had to stretch the frame to accommodate the longer cylinder of the Colt cartridge.

StrawHat · #9 01-18-2021, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

The 45 Colt I referred to was a later chambering in the M1875 SA Army, not a conversion of the 1858. In fact Remington even had to stretch the frame to accommodate the longer cylinder of the Colt cartridge.

Thank you, I had not considered the 1875.

Kevin

2152hq · #10 01-18-2021, 04:25 PM

Follow up to my earlier post on this thread.
Here's a pic of the fancy file work as was somewhat common on the muzzle of the bbl of some flintlock guns. Usually early guns, better quality guns. It's more common on the Jaeger rifles built in Germany and Austria.

Decoration is all it is. Some quite involved and way more intricate than this example but this is the idea. Even the rifling lands and grooves were involved in some as the gunsmiths cut those features with multiple features within themselves such as ribbed lands, oval, rounded or otherwise geometric shaped grooves. Even ratchet shaped grooves.
The muzzle file work added as decoration.

Factory rifles bbls of later production mass produced arms were for the most part standard square cut grooves . But the grooves were usually deeper than what we see now. That allows for much of the contrast in the file work when completed.

Knife makers sometimes do a bit of much the same type of file work called ' fancy back' on the narrow tang of knives.