You're right, but the new schoolers, upgraders, gadgeteers, and the concealed carry hobbyists are unaware of the big advantages of the DA/SA decocker pistols. They mistakenly see it as a complicated, confusing step back in time. Perhaps too much YouTube and gunfighting theory.

Everyone wants what LE and military are using. If it's good enough for them it must be good enough for a civilian.....right?

That's pretty hard to argue with unless you have some experience with SA or DA/SA pistols. I'm thinking most new shooters don't want to mess with it. Just a guess.

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That's just somebody talkin.

funny this thread comes up, I just made the decision of my next purchase,
that being a CZ 75BD. Bad time to look for one but...

my much maligned
Taurus PT111 G2 is also
SA/DA Striker fired..
and works wonderfully with second strike capability a big plus

I own striker fired guns. M&P’s and a Ruger LC9S. The Ruger is my carry gun. It’s lighter and smaller than any hammer fired gun.

But I am still more comfortable with a hammer. Strikers just make me a little nervous. It’s not a new guy thing. I carried both a Glock 19 and a Glock 26 on duty.

My home defense gun is a 5906. I sometimes carry a 3953. I believe the hammer guns have far more benefits than drawbacks. I never felt burdened by the trigger transition. I think it’s way overblown.

If they ever invent a hammer fired gun the same size and weight as my Ruger I’ll buy it immediately.

It is interesting to follow the history of striker fired versus hammer fired autos in the development and use of 32 caliber German military pistols. In 1914 there was a mixed bag with striker fired in Sauer 1913, the Mauser 1914, the Dreyse 1907, the FL selfloader, and the Browning 1900 (and a few other rarer models). The Walther Model 4 with a concealed hammer was not striker fired but behaved like one. Between the wars, with a strong military focus on updating the 7.65 autos, Walther went to the PP with DA/SA and an exposed hammer, Sauer went to the excellent 38H with a concealed hammer DA/SA and a lever cocker and decocker. Mauser went to the HSC DA/SA with an exposed hammer.
The Imperial army and the Wehrmacht used a lot of pistols. Many of the Imperial pistols carried over into WW2, notably the Luger, but the new models developed between the wars were primarily DA/SA. The inclusion of the cocking lever on the Sauer 38H may suggest they preferred single action if time and circumstances permitted.

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Kind regards, Heinz

".....reset Mafia". That is awesome. 👍

I won't own a 1911, I won't own a Glock, and I know that they are great guns. I will admit to owning one polymer, striker fired 9mm but all ofthe rest of my 9mms and .45s are traditional double action and all steel. I bought this one late last year SPECIFICALLY because it was not polymer and was a TDA pistol (the rest of my TDAs are all S&Ws):

SAR K2 C



I keep double action revolvers and TDA pistols everywhere for home defense. They're the best.

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Come and take it!!

I own all three flavors, SA/DA, striker fired and SA. SA/DA is my choice for defense. No real reason other than I'm competent with them and have used them for many years. Depending on the situation, I'll have a P220 or P228. Single actions? I love the 1911, but I don't carry one. I'm not proficient or at ease with cocked-and-locked. Not that I couldn't be trained up, but I'm presently not proficient. My 1911s are for Bullseye (aka Precision Pistol). I recently bought a new generation P210. Single-action, metal and super accurate. Old school, but then I am too. I figured I'd try a striker fired plastic gun a few years back. I figured I'd go in with both feet so I tried 40 S&W at the same time. I bought an SR40 and was pretty disappointed. I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it - maybe not even from inside. Upon disassembly it looked like a squirt gun with Bic pen springs. Unwilling to admit defeat, I later bought a VP40. Nicely made (plastic) gun, good ergonomics but accuracy was non-existent. Worse than the Ruger. Perhaps I expected too much from the plastic guns, but in my experience they pale compared to my SA/DA and SA metal guns. So for me, the SA/DA isn't obsolete. It's my first choice for a defensive gun.

....but this thread made me realize that I only have a rudimentary understanding of the differences in actions.

For instance, I have a third gen 5943 DAO. It has a plastic hammer that is visible but not operable by hand. Is that striker fired?

Anyway, I don't know enough about the different actions and need to embark on an educational tour.

My son has a Taurus that I really like at the range because it has a hammer and can be shot in pure single action. My HD/SD guns are all striker fired. I don't understand why people don't like them.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

One thing I learned on this thread was the origin of the current "keep your finger outside the trigger guard" fanatics; the trigger safeties. Duh.
I have adapted that practice on the range. But I believe Ed McGivern could get two rounds off on a draw before the average person can get their finger back inside the trigger guard :-)

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Kind regards, Heinz

My only beef with a DA/SA as a carry gun is practice.

I believe the first shot is critical so naturally I would practice in DA which was fine for at home backyard shooting but when I took my 4566 to an advanced pistol class running trigger control and slow fire accuracy drills really became a pain with almost constant decocking.

I wanted something with a consistent trigger pull because I tend to pull my first(DA) shot, also it seems the classes are geared towards what’s popular today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice Ladysmith sir!

Which .45 are you carrying if you don't mind, the 4506, or??

Thanks,

Michael

If you carry it all day everyday, why Condition Two, which is not as safe as Condition 1 that it was designed for?

Michael

This is a training issue, not a gun issue. Keep your finger off the trigger, and it won't go bang until you want it to.

Michael

I have a bunch of guns, of all varieties, but if the SHTF my DA/SA P229 will be the first one I grab. Not that it’s any better than the others, it’s just the one I am most familiar with, having carried and trained with it most of my LE career.

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213th FBINA

mrstang01 the 4566 most of the time. But when I am working both jobs - double shifts - a 4563TSW or even the CS45 gets the nod.

All the same operation. Just different size and weight. The light weight pistols on "lazy" days. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Started my LE career carrying revolvers and still love them. Went to a 1911 exclusively for about 25 years. I have three striker fired guns that I use and carry regularly but had never had a DA/SA until recently when I purchased a CZ P-01 Omega. Much like a 1911in condition 1 you need to train with it to get proficient with the DA/SA transition of the trigger but it is not hard to master. It is now my bedside gun with a light and laser mounted on it. I like it and shoot it well. Look to Earnest Langdon, a fantastic shooter of Beretta's.

Your 5943 is a hammer fired gun. It has a hammer, not a striker. Some see it as a good compromise between a striker fired gun and a traditional double action. Same trigger pull for each shot, longer trigger pull than a striker, hammer to rest your thumb on while re-holstering.

The trigger on your 5943 is partially cocked, so the pull is shorter and smoother than the DA pull on a TDA. I have 2 5946's and a 3953. I really like them.

"Obsolete" gets tossed around a lot, and I don't think it's used correctly.

Here's a quick test question:

Let's say a respected firearms manufacturer made a striker-fire pistol in a common caliber, and it came with a doublestack magazine so also higher capacity. Per all tests and reports, the gun functions fine, as reliable as other handguns that are hammer-fired. It is no larger, no heavier, etc. It doesn't cost more than other options, in fact it's usually less. Does this handgun render the others obsolete?

Decide on your answer.



And then, go look up the Savage 1907...

Now THAT is going to start me on a new thread so I don't hijack this one.

And I forgot, silly me, about my TDA Berettas. This is one of my HD guns:

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Come and take it!!

The original LC9 (without the s) is hammer fired and is the same size and weight as the LC9s version.

Kudos to

Sigp220.45 (comment #48).


He hit a home run with bases loaded
in regards to real world situations and
the "rule" of finger outside the trigger
guard.

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Ubi Est Mea

The day of the DA/SA Hammer fired gun is coming to a end sadly. A number of companies have completely ditched the platform. S&W and Ruger come to mind. Both were huge in the DA/SA game. Now they're strictly Striker Fired guns. Beretta has tried to replace the 92 line with the PX4 and that failed. So they went with the APX which is doing fairly well. Sure, the PX4 and 92 have a bump in popularity at the moment due to gun golfers. But on the general side of things, their best seller right now is the APX for the average consumer. SIG is going through a similar culling of the herd. They've slashed and reduced the number of DA/SA guns over the years and continue to do so. The P320 is their future and they know it.

FN has all but abandoned it except for the FNX-45. Everything else is shuttered. Even HK has seen the light and is now making a Striker Fired gun. Same with CZ. They're trying to move onto something else from the 75 line. They first tried it with the P-07 and P-09. That didn't work, so now it is their Striker Fired P-10 series. Walther has fully embraced the Striker Fired gun too.

I'm a huge DA/SA fan, but I understand why a Striker Fired gun is the king now. It is one constant trigger pull that can be tailored to be extremely light. It is cheaper to produce. It is a very easy platform to train people on.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

We have similar tastes, I just happen to like mine in .40 S&W.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

CH4 - Your p229 brings back fond memories.....I carried a two-tone p229 in 40S&W in the academy, albeit with the black factory stocks. The DA/SA is an outstanding gun for LE IMHO. I shot 297 out of 300 at final quals.

I would not hesitate to carry DA/SA, DAO, striker fired or SA 1911 types. Train with your gun, get proficient and you will be fine.

I think for economy's sake, the poly striker fired guns will be the issue dejour until something cheaper comes out, or the woke populace decides that cops shouldn't carry anything lethal.

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On the Oak Savannah

If " Gun golfers" equal "gun guys" like Wilson, Langdon, Hackathorn and Sig220 it's not a problem........"Come on man" ..... even the 1911 is not obsolete... though only seen in the hands of the best of the best on the street or sandbox.

Right now striker fired guns are "King" in sales because they're ; cheaper and easier to produce..... and sell themselves to the masses "as seen on TV".

In the 1980s my first concealed carry semi auto handgun was a Beretta 70s .380 followed by a number of Colt 1911................

As we are often reminded they are tools.... those of us here are more "into" the "shooting sports" and concealed carry... assessing my needs like Sig220 and Paladin5020 I find the traditional DA/SA to represent the best tool for my needs..... be it a 3913, PC Shorty9 or Beretta Compact.

Today..........I may only have one 1911 pattern gun but I do also have a couple of Browning HPs from 1935. Obsolete... NO!

The 1911 is horribly obsolete. There's a reason why the USMC finally ditched them after some much institutional inertia. Eight to ten rd capacity, SAO, manual safety, and ounces equal pounds. Sure, a 1911 will kill a man today just as effectively as it did in 1911. But then again, a Colt 1836 will do it too. Yet it was replaced with something better. They went with the GLOCK 19 and now with the P320. Why? Smaller, lighter, more reliable, cheaper, more bullets to shoot at bad guys. USMC MEU and MARSOC 1911s needed to be fine tuned and custom built. That costs money and time. A COTS striker fired gun works without any of that.

I'm a huge fan of the DA/SA. But there is a reason why any institution that remotely deals with being on the two way range has gone to a high capacity, polymer frame, striker fired gun. Cost is a factor. When you have to equip a large amount of people. Cost becomes a major factor. It is a easier platform to train people on. Again, that's a cost savings. With the P320 (and I dislike the damn but even I understand why DoD went eith it), the fact that the frame isn't a serialized component is another cost saving. Have you ever dealt with the bureaucracy that is a large PD or the Military when it comes to deadlining and replacing a bust gun? It is a nightmare.

Wilson isn't in the Sandbox, neither is Langdon. Hackathorn has been out so long, it is like me getting my Father who retired from LE a decade ago and getting him to apply for SWAT. Sure, he knew his stuff back in his prime, but that was long before a smart phone, let alone a laptop was something in a patrol car. Hackathorn knows his stuff, but he's not out in the field today doing sneaky snake eater stuff.

Gun Golfers are on one way ranges punching paper with ant fart powder puff loads out of comped guns that just barely qualify for minor or major.

Again, I like DA/SA. I carry them off duty. I shoot them at the range. I use them for home defense. I carry a GLOCK on duty and did so for the entirety of my career for a reason. My Old Man went from a S&W Model 10 to a Model 13 to a Beretta Model 92SB and in 1986 he went with GLOCK and never looked back. Mind you he loves the wheel gun and the DA/SA. But he knew when it came to a duty gun versus a range toy. Striker fired polymer framed was the end all he all until phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt come out.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

My Model 39,52,92S,USP 9 and 45,Browning HI Power and my CZ 75b would beg to differ.

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Chief

I have five Hi-Powers, two USPs, five Berettas, twelve S&W Automatics, six 1911s, etc.... a striker fired GLOCK is still my go to duty pistol. Again, I like DA/SA guns, I just understand that their day in the sun as passed much like the duty size revolver as a main fighting gun for a professional institution.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

JBT I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

While you make some good points for agencies or military branches that are buying large numbers of guns...... those arguments don't render everything else "obsolete"........ just maybe not the best choice for that role/purpose.

I remember when everyone thought DAO 15 shot 9mm's were a great Police duty gun....... wait ATF classified the Glock as DAO....but selling for 2/3 the cost of a Beretta 92D

As to cost generally...... did Subaru render the BMW.... "Obsolete". My Subaru is a lot more reliable than my BMW!

Sounds like someone has channeled the Spirit of Charlie Askins, he said his editors would have him write provocative articles to stir reader interest, get them to write.
I define "obsolete" in military terms, i.e. ineffective and putting your troops at a disadvantage-the 45-70 in the Cuban Campaign, the 38 Long Colt in the Moro Rebellion, and withdrawn from service and no longer supported.
Not an LEO nor do I play one on the Web, as was noted in the message thread on muzzle control in the military, it's a matter of leadership and training.

I read Charles Askins, Jr. and Jeff Cooper beginning in the '60s. They both wrote for GUNS & AMMO at that time. G&A and AMERICAN RIFLEMAN were the best in the business then. Things have really changed for these magazines, but the material those guys put out didn't compare with the better articles of the day. However, Askins and Cooper had a following. I wasn't any smarter than the "following" and read the material anyway.

I read them both, too. Always enjoyed them, especially Cooper's pithy one liners or short paragraphs. But I agree that their theories in re guns and gun fighting are quite dated except for Cooper's colorful readiness/awareness conditions and gun handling in general.

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Come and take it!!

Love my Ruger P90 45 auto and S&W 586 both...

I think this thread is labeled wrong. It should say In-fashion or out of Fashion. Not Obsolete. I doubt that it will ever be obsolete.

Although I own examples of all three, am proficient with them all, and carry each, I prefer carrying DA/SA guns with decocker over striker fired and SAO pistols with safeties.

Agencies and the military are moving towards plastic, striker fired handguns in large part due to cost considerations.