I post this in full knowledge it'll likely cause extreme heartburn. Believe me, that's not my intent. I've seen this question discussed on the interwebs, and in light of a recent post elsewhere on this page about revolvers being "hobby guns," I'm curious. Not that this breed of auto pistols are in the hobby category, just asking if they should be relegated to second string, behind the polymer starting lineup. Most police and sheriff's departments have made the move, along with the U.S. Military. Again, not trying to start a Holy War, just asking.

I don't think so. They're certainly not as popular, but popular enough for Wilson Combat and LTT to offer DA/SA Berettas, and Springfield Armory introduced the DA/SA XDe a few years ago.

The 1911 is often considered obsolete, yet there are plenty of new ones being made by multiple manufacturers with a plethora of aftermarket parts and accessories.

Larry Vickers said that the 1911 is a gun for the enthusiast, and I think DA/SA guns fall into that same category. Your Average Joe who just wants a gun for protection or gets issued one while in the military or LE isn't really going to care. But someone who recognizes the positive attributes of DA/SA guns will be attracted to them. Just like enthusiasts of the 1911 and revolvers.

FWIW, I'm a fan of DA/SA guns, with a Beretta 92FS and a PX4 Compact, and lately I've been EDCing a 1911. I also often carry one of my 642s as either a BUG or, less often, primary.

Just my opinion.

“Less popular” or “out of favor”, probably. But enough around from the past 90+ years that they have a while before they go the way of the matchlock.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The reasons that polymer, striker fired pistols have taken over the market are fairly straight forward. They're cheap to produce, and can be made in large quantities quickly. They don't require a highly skilled labor force, such as gunsmiths and can usually be repaired with drop-in parts They've been proven reliable and accurate enough for their intended use, and they're affordable. I own only one striker fired pistol. It's an Oertgies, 7.65mm from 1929 that was owned by wife's grandfather, and nothing plastic graces the shelves of my safe. I'm a big fan of DA/SA semi-autos. I like 1911's. Revolvers are my favorites. I can appreciate Glocks and the like for what they are, but that's as far as it goes. Shoot what you like and like what you shoot.

Those guns worked fine then, and they work fine now. Plastic is cheaper, that's all. More profit for the maker. If you like cheap, have at it. The gun below is still my preferred discreet carry pistol, and in my opinion, the best of the breed.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

If so why do people still shoot and enjoy bows & arrows/flint locks/muzzle loaders/cap & ball..........And on the flip side older mature women?

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S&W Accumulator

Depending on what you get used to and what you prefer, there are no drawbacks to DA/ SA pistols. They're quite safe and don't need concessions like holsters that cover the trigger area for carrying.

Many who have used such guns have probably not used them enough to become proficient with them, let alone taking the time to get used to the very useful double-action first shot with subsequent single-action firing. This routine quickly becomes second nature and offers nothing in the way of a handicap to the skilled shooter.

Those who have no experience with such guns and criticize the mechanics may have received a flawed education from self-proclaimed pros and those that mistakenly see striker-fired guns as "upgrades", to use a common but often misused contemporary term. An upgrade is always a change, but a change is not always an improvement; sometimes it's a step backward.

Granted, opinions vary. There may very well be a certain usefulness to non-DA/SA pistols, but in fairness, one should become skilled with a DA/SA pistol before criticizing.

I’d go with out-of-favor too. I wouldn’t base things on government contracts. Government contracts aren’t based on “best.” They choose the lowest price unit that’s adequate for the job.

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Vegan by proxy.

Certainly not for me, I learned how to shoot on a revo,(DA/SA) then as I got older Glocks were all the rage so I got a few, but now after having a bunch of 3rd gens in the DA/SA variants, a Beretta or 2 and a CZ I wished I never sold off... I find myself shooting more and more and carrying more a DA/SA gun

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This is the way....

Nine firearms instructors, all with decades of military/LE experience.

Three of us carry DA/SA - 1 Beretta M9 / me with 3rd gen 45/ 1 CZ 9MM.

Five of the others carry Glock 9mms. And the last carries a CZ P10.

The DA/SA is not obsolete. If you know how to shoot and are proficient. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I carry 1911 45 ACP in Condition TWO every day, all day.
I also ride a horse every week, when a 4 wheeler would suffice.
I wear a Stetson hat instead of a hoodie.
I prefer Leather and Wood to Nylon and Kydex.

Some people are infatuated with NEW NEW but some of us will stay with TRIED AND TRUE.

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V/r,
Markham

I don’t believe any semiauto to be obsolete.

when I transitioned from revolver to semi a DA/SA seemed to be the natural move
but I didn’t stop there.

Since my whole purpose for semi handguns is SD I believe a consistent trigger pull with no external safety to be my best choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1st Conceal Carry was a revolver.
2nd Conceal Carry was a single action semi-auto.
3rd Conceal Carry was a plastic striker fired semi-auto.
4th Conceal Carry was a DA/SA semi-auto.

Under simulated stress practice, for me, the DA/SA consistently put the most rounds on target the fastest.

The main reasons why certain types of firearms are specified for law enforcement and military carry purposes, are probably price and simplicity. The average American may choose a particular concealed carry firearm type without any of those restrictions imposed.

BTW: some police agencies require service firearms be modified to achieve a much heavier trigger pull than those sold to civilians. Few of us would want to imitate this modification "because the police do it".

Most police and military are not comprised of gun people, just people who use them as a tool.
My only striker fired/cap gun pistol is a Kahr. It is useful but not nearly as much as my CZ75.

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Front sight and squeeze

I think a lot of excellent points have been shared. I'm not sure any firearm or weapon lacks value, as they all serve a function when the timing requires it.

For example, I've never owned a muzzle loader. However I recognize it's capability to harvest game and deter an adversary. While it may not be the right tool for all situations, it has been the right tool in the past for the situations that were present then and if the world keeps trending in this direction it may one day be the right tool for the job of the future!

While I have owned DA/SA autos (Sig and Berettas) and have enjoyed them. I find 1911's and revolvers bring more enjoyment to me and I shoot them better typically. So I own and carry those, does that make me a "Boomer" or whatever term people use (I'm 40), who cares it's what I like and it has worked for police and military in the past. As a collector and appreciator of firearms, I have no issues owning a variety of guns. As long as my budget and physical space permit new additions.

Shoot a wide field of firearms, find out what you like and shoot the best. Then make sure you have those accessible in the quantity you expect and then find your way into other branches of the firearm family tree when life permits!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

I think DA/SA semi-auto pistols give the shooter a greater range of options as far as trigger control and feel that a striker-fired pistol cannot.

Are you in a situation where a heavier DA trigger pull would be safer or preferable? My favorite example is being jarred awake at night and your head is not quite yet fully clear - a DA trigger pull is my preference in this instance.

Conversely, you could also be in a situation where you can afford to take a moment to thumb back the hammer for a light, crisp SA trigger pull if you want/need that as well. You may think that you never want/need these options, but it certainly is nice to have them available. I equate it to owning a pick-up truck with 4-wheel-drive even though I may never use it. I owned my last truck for nearly 10 years and it did not have 4WD - but on the two distinct occasions in that decade that I needed it, I REALLY needed it!

Four-wheel drive option is a good analogy. I've never fired many of my revolvers double-action, but the double-action capability is a good option to have.

The only non-striker fired pistolas I see in police holsters these days are 1911s. I do backgrounds for a local department and quite a few of the detectives and command staff carry cocked and locked 1911s. The rest are all Glocks.

The staties I work with in my instructor gig all carry M&Ps, and the obscure agency for whom I instruct are switching from DAO hammer guns (HK USP Compacts) to Glock 19s.

I never see traditional DA/SA decocker guns anymore.

I still like them, though. These days I’m usually carrying a Beretta Model 84 or 85.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

And the FBI said 10mm was the cats meow. They they said 40Sw. Now it's back to 9mm. No, if I followed LE for my leads on weapons I would be carrying a new weapon every time I turned around. DA/SA Autos are not obsolete, just not the flavor du jour for many.

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Who watches the watchers?

Not for me. My daily carry gun is a Beretta 92X and the nightstand gun is a Wilson Beretta 92 Elite

I’m sitting here 27 years later with my 6906 @ about 4 o’clock. I’ve been looking for a “better” gun for the last 10 years or so. Still looking, the CZ P07 is in the lead. Shoulda got one when they were $400. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

I dont think so at all, Smith has gone away from DA/SA for their M&P line, which I enjoy, but that was more to compete with Glock than anything else.

Most agencies got Glocks for one reason alone, price. Glock makes a good gun but please dont let anyone fool you into thinking they took over the LE market because they are "perfection" unless perfection means cheap. Glock triggers also helped, as any of us know the transition from double to single takes some getting used to, Glock has the same pull every time.

That said, as with the guys who wanted the Model 19, Model 27 and chief specials "because its what the cops had when I was a kid"......We come full circle, the Glock/Striker fire crowd is now getting to be older and those guns will be the "in thing"

SIG continues to make their DA/SA line, H&K as well. Springfield as mentioned brough in a DA/SA single stack pistol which is popular.

In the end striker fired guns have their attributes but DA/SA guns wont ever be obsolete.

When I look at a handgun I want to see a hammer. No hammer I don’t want it. Next thing I look for is da/sa. I don’t think they are going by the wayside anytime soon. Check their prices.

Aside from the relatively low cost and light weight of the Tupperware striker fired guns, their relatively simple manual of arms (just pull the trigger) is a great attraction.

The DA/SA third gen Smiths have a more involved manual of arms, as does the 1911,

A relatively small proportion of today’s gun buyers are interested in, or willing to devote the time and effort necessary to master the manual of arms of a 1911 or a DA/SA gun.

LEO agencies get the Tupperware guns for low cost and the training investment for the agency are minimal compared to that required to produce competent gun handling with a SA/DA or 1911 gun.

First semi I ever bought was a Ruger P-95. Still own it.

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Take it easy. Chris

I agree with much of what you have to say. As for 1911s, I've been shooting them for many years. It may be solely due to my lack of shooting skill, but I've found the 1911 to be a difficult pistol to shoot well. Takes much practice (at least for me it did) and I'm still learning. In fact, I've fired about 500 rounds through several 1911s in the last ten days or so.

Perhaps I'm one of very few that has had this difficulty, but I could not imagine a beginner learning handgun skills with a 1911, unless the shooter has incredible talent. Comparatively speaking the .45 ACP has considerably more recoil than 9mm pistols. I'll not argue cartridges.

Obsolete? Not in my safe they're not...

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

You speak the truth but I can't describe the "warm fuzzy" I feel when I re-holster with my thumb on that bobbed hammer. For me, prone to occasional mistakes, worth the trouble. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

I consider a decocker to be an important safety feature in a semi auto pistol.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

I love shooting my Sig P228. But I haven’t carried it on my hip in a long time. More a decision about weight than operation.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

I have SA... DAO...DA/SA... STRIKER... some are more "popular" than others with "some" people... they all have their place and work well in that place.. the basics are, master what you have and forget about chasing the flavor of the month.. caliber or type...

I'd agree that DA/SA is out of fashion in the mass market. Striker fired guns with a trigger dingus are easier to use with minimal training.

I have a liking for true DAO guns, not the partially cocked ones like S&Ws and Kahrs. Square revolvers I call them, like Sig P250s and SCCY CPXs. I'm in a minority for sure as the reset Mafia whine and complain about semi-autos with a long reset.

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Release the Kraken

Obsolescent, yes.

Obsolete, no.

The newspaper is obsolescent. The clay tablet is obsolete. There's a difference.

I got real good with the M9 back in the day, stacking that first shot just so...but as a civilian never bothered. I have one DA/SA, my pre-39, and I think I've shot no more than about 24 rounds through it.

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Psalm 27:2

No, because all of my pistols are like that save one Ruger pocket pistol. I was trained on DA/SA pistols, am used to and feel comfortable with them. I wouldn't want any other type.

I'm not sure of the point of this thread other than to give fans of the DA/SA auto a place to vent.

There is nothing wrong with a good DA/SA pistol if the user puts the time and effort in to use it effectively.

Civilian handgun sales are somewhat driven by what the police and military are using and most police and militaries have moved to striker-fired plastic guns.

I do think the DA/SA system is a little harder to master than the Glockish striker system. I did not say hard, but harder. I think for most people it takes just a little more work to be good at it but mastery is entirely doable for those that want to do it.

The striker-polymer guns, being perhaps a little easier to achieve a rudimentary level of proficiency with, usually lighter, cheaper and easier to maintain have gained a large following amongst those responsible for training and equipping large numbers of people like police and military organizations.

This does not mean, DA/SA guns cannot be used effectively just as it doesn't mean DAO guns cannot be used effectively.

I think a DA/SA pistol is only an advantage from a comfort standpoint; it allows carrying with one in the pipe with an extra margin of safety, and allows dropping the hammer with a live round chambered more easily done safely (decocker). Hammer down with a blocked hammer, to draw and fire is no different than a striker pistol with a thumb safety except the first trigger pull is longer. I'd rather carry a 1911 in C1, and have the same trigger pull for all shots, or the striker with a thumb safety, plus whatever is done to the trigger (center tab safety). In any case, the actions needed to draw and fire are the same. 1-grip and draw, 2-thumb safety released, 3-pull trigger. If you carry with an empty chamber, regardless of DA/SA, striker or SA only, you've got to rack the slide first, and then they're all the same again, point and pull. I had a S&W M459 years ago, the ONLY thing I didn't like about it was the long first pull in DA. If I operated it all the time in SA, it was fine, but there wasn't great way to carry "cocked and locked" safely, so I always had that long first pull to deal with, and invariably would pull the shot in a speed drill.

Opinions are like exhaust pipes.......We all got one. And in reality your opinion only matters to you.

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S&W Accumulator

I was issued a new MP 2.0 for duty and I enjoy shooting it and it’s a great home defense gun with my attached surefire light. But I carry an LEM P2000 which for me is a perfect CCW gun. I like having a hammer and a bit longer pull than a striker. It also operates similar to a double action revolver so all my triggers are similar muscle memory.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

NO!

IIRC when Glocks first came into the country ATF classified them a DAO which was all the rage with law enforcement agencies at the time.... cus a cop couldn't be accused of cocking the hammer and accidently shooting a suspect..

LOL.... they were also supposedly invisible to magnomitors at airports

Second they were "inexpensive" and Glock marketed them to the bean counters ...... some said only making a profit when selling the "trade ins"

On the plus side they do work.........

I guess CZ and Sig didn't get the memo....they seem to sell them as fast as they can make them!!

Randy

Right now, you constantly read that people won't carry a gun with a safety. Or a magazine lock.

And if you have a trigger pull over 7lbs you aren't serious about self defense. Better get a gunsmith to set it to 3.5 lbs.

But at some point there will be enough ADs and the pendulum will swing back to DA/SA.

And all the striker fired guys with their 3.5 lbs triggers will limp to the LGS to get one.

My old CZ-75 I got at the Rod & Gun Club in Grafenwöhr in 1979. Very comfortable in the hand, feels a lot like a Browning Hi-Power but with an SA/DA option and an easier to use safety. Gives me the option of either cocked and locked OR DA first pull on a loaded chamber.

I've run a boatload of GI issue ball though mine when it was "easy" to obtain. I don't care if the gun rag writers thinks it's obsolete, it suits me.

The Beretta 92 is going through a renaissance of sorts, and the PX4 is becoming quite popular.

IDK about you guys, but I’m not stuffing a striker-fired gun with a “safe action” trigger into an AIWB holster.

I have carried my Ruger .44 spl single action all week. Put 50 rds through it today..........Inside 125 yards you would be in serious trouble....Try that with your plastomatics.

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S&W Accumulator

I think strikers are great, just not enough to buy one.

I have a few polymer pistols but none are strikers. I'll just pay a little more for DA/SA, thanks. Keep the change.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I found this thread interesting and I have very little knowledge of or experience with striker fired pistols. Are striker fired guns either single action or double action depending on make and/or model?
Are there absolutely NO DA/SA striker fired guns?
Please forgive me if this is considered off topic and excuse my ignorance if this has already been discussed at length elsewhere where I missed it.
I notice that gun magazine descriptions do not usually go beyond "striker fired".

I’ll throw this out there and wait to get pummeled by the booger-hook crowd:

The traditional DA/SA decocker set up is the best pistol ever made for taking people at gunpoint.

I know a little bit about it. I was on the FBI/NOPD Violent Crime/Fugitive Task Force for several years in the 90s when New Orleans lead the country in murders. NOPD was so plowed under they didn’t look for their murderers and didn’t bother to put the warrants in NCIC. They’d work the scene, get a warrant, put it in MOTION (Metropolitan Orleans Total Information Online Network, I think) and go the next scene. Our little band would take the warrants and go hunting. It was great. I had my gun in somebody’s face multiple times a day, every day.

Ok, brace yourselves: I usually had my finger on the trigger, because I was ready to shoot.

Not a great idea with a Glock. My oldest son, now an NOPD officer, has a Glock 17 and its beaten into his head to keep that trigger finger straight. I wasn’t trained that way, and with my DA/SA Sig P220 it wasn’t a problem.

My gunfighting days are behind me, but should I need to unlimber my shooter again I’ll probably have my digit where its always been.

DISCLAIMER: Do what you are comfortable with. Your mileage may vary. Do not remove this mattress tag. This shampoo is meant for external use only. People are people and will always do people things.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Striker don't have second strike capability, so are single action.
There is at least one DA/SA striker fired pistol. Walther P99 AS


Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

Thank you, I understand that explanation. Where racking the slide does not fully cock the striker spring in all cases, it's simply part of the "striker fired" description.
Also thank you for the info on the Walther; striker fired with a decocker. Very interesting.

The Taurus G3 series are striker-fired and second strike capable. Without knowing exactly how this occurs, my guess is the first pull has the spring under more tension and the second pull (if needed) requires more effort with the spring under less tension.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220