Long time girl friend's father passed away early December. We were over his condo yesterday cleaning out some belongings. Came upon this Colt Police Positive and a half box of .38 S&W ammo.

Gun was dirty but appears to be in decent shape. I gave it a light cleaning with some Ballistol and CLP. Bore and chambers are in good shape with zero pitting. Timing is right on and the lock up is vault tight. Trigger is excellent in both DA and SA. Nickel and grips are in decent shape with expected wear for a gun this age. Back strap on the grip is worn.

Never have owned a Colt revolver and hit the internet for some info. Wiki stated that the Police Positive was made from 1907 until 1947. The hard rubber grips were used until 1923 when the checkered wood grips were introduced. Apparently a frame change in 1928 with a heavier serrated top strap.

I can't find a serial number on it. This one has the smooth top strap. If assuming the grips are original (no numbers on the inside). I'm guessing that its birthday is somewhere between 1923 and 1927.

The ammo appears to be fairly recent production and is in good condition.

He was retired PD. We had a special relationship that was hard to explain. I miss my friend and can think of no better way to pay tribute to him.... than to give this baby a range run. RIP.

Any additional info will be much appreciated.
Regards Klyde

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The serial has to be stamped on the frame in the yoke cut (or crane as the Colt guys call it), visible when you swing out the cylinder.

In contrast to old Smiths, that‘s the only place you‘ll find it.

That backstrap “wear” looks very odd. Completely untypical given the general condition of the nickel, so I think it means a department stamping was removed there.

Nice gun, looks to be in good condition. What PD did he work for?

Got the S/N....155121. Hopefully someone can date this. Don't know if I was in the ball park with my guess.

The metal radius on the backstrap is completely smooth with the rest of the frame. Doesn't appear to be any material removed except the nickel plating.

Thank you for the information.

Regards.

Thanks Moosedog. I believe that it is in very good mechanical condition. Other than the worn backstrap the cosmetics are decent also. A few freckles on the barrel but no flaking of the nickel.....just some nice character.

He served with the Boston PD. Retired about 20 years ago. The gun way predates his service years.

Regards

If it is a .38 S&W, not Special -1924.

Colt's Manufacturing LLC

Much appreciated. Yes....38 S&W.

Regards

Well, technically .38 Colt New Police, Colt‘s iteration of the same dimensioned cartridge.

Even though the barrel just says .38. I just explained some stuff about that in the Commando value thread if you‘re interested

Yes.....I read the other thread and also noted the same in the Wikipedia info.

They said Colt changed the bullet profile to a flat point and renamed it because they did not want to give S&W any credit by including them in the nomenclature.

Good times back then.

Klyde

I just confirmed that Boston PD used the Police Positive in the 1920s and all of them were stamped B.P.D. plus a number on the backstrap exactly corresponding to the scrubbed section on your gun. I think we know what was there. He may have gotten the gun from an oldtimer or come across it at a pawnshop and recognized what it was.

I'll agree with your logic but the physical evidence doesn't support it. The metal profile in that area is absolutely correct with the profile of the rest of the strap. No indentations from any punch markings on the bare metal.

I would think that even punching the nickel hard enough to imprint an insignia would transfer the figure to the metal underneath. At least mar it so that some damage would be visible.

Looked at it close with a strong magnifying glass. Damage free.

One possibility would be surface etching. I'd agree with that Definitely not a stamped logo. It would be fantastic if I could confirm BPD property.

Only those long departed know for sure. Only if the gun could talk.

Appreciate your input and thank you for the help.

Regards

Did B.P.D. order any nickel ones? Taking a glance online at the other Boston PD Colt Police Positives that pop up in a Google search and you quickly notice that all of them appear to be very well worn.

DANG!!!! Nothing would make me happier than for you to be right. What a tribute it would be. I'd have a presentation case made with his badge and the Colt. I'm wanting in the worst way to see something but just don't see it.

Running a finger over the backstrap....the only material that appears to be missing is the nickel plating. The bare steel is baby butt smooth and correct in profile.

Be interesting to know what procedure they used for marking.

Klyde

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For the record, I think that a Colt Police Positive in .38 Special would be clearly marked "Police Positive Special". See below:

__________________
Come and take it!!

I don't know. Of course there are other possibilities. Detroit also marked in that area, and they ordered mostly nickel.

The wear would not seem an issue to me. Nickel actually held up quite well. That's why the backstrap is definitely a scrub and not wear. Here are a couple of Detroit-stamped Colts, a PP from 1928 and an OP from 1941:




The backstrap is from a 1920s Bankers Special:

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Here's some "Colt New Police" ammo i have that is just .38 S&W with a flat point and different markings.

Try a rubbing on the backstrap with a thin sheet of paper and a soft pencil lead. You might be surprised what appears.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

If something was on the backstrap it can be raised with acid. Check with your crime lab. It won't damage the rest of the gun.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

I'm retired too.

Looking at the "scrub", I'll have to agree with Absalom, that it appears to be a grind area. The linear pattern of the top and bottom edges.

However the bare area is smooth as a babies hind end. Running a finger nail across the rub at 90 degrees is like running it over the hood of a waxed car. Smooooth. If it was done with a grinder striations would be evident.

Looking at the pictures of the Detroit guns I'm wondering how the insignia was applied. Thinking about it.....stamping a nickel
finish would probably fracture the nickel coating. I'm wondering what the process is.

Also, how whatever was there was removed. I agree with being sanded off. Which might be a possibility if they only had to remove the nickel coating. It is that smooth.

I ran a pencil and thin paper test.....nothing.

Thanks for the input.
Klyde

The nickel finish looks a little dull, you can bring it back to a nice shine with some Flitz metal polish. Does a great job on nickel...

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OGCA Member.

Old timer hand off holds water. He went on in the mid 60's. Old Timer going out after 35 years would have come on around 1930. Time frame jives.

Probably never know what was on it short of a letter from Colt. My buddy says they do letters similar to S&W. Might have to spend the money.


Edit.....ordered up the archive letter. $75 with a 90 day wait. We will see.

Thank You to all that replied.
Regards

Here's a past post of BPD revolver started in 2010.

Boston Police Guns looking for a list

And here's a picture of a Boston PD marked back strap with inventory number.
Detroit PD only ordered nickel 5 inch and 2 inch guns until going with the Glocks, but blue guns were acquired most likely through turn ins and property room guns but these were few and far between.

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Is there a chance that the identification was removed from backstrap before the revolver went through the nickel process, after leaving the PD?

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Kevin in Oregon

The bare area is machine quality. Smooth as glass. No hand file work there. Radius matches the rest of the strap and no damage to the underlying metal.

Something was there. I'm leaning with Absalomon on a BPD gun, but I'll be danged on how they got the marking off.

We will see in 90 days. Archive letter inbound.

Regards Klyde

Spent a little time on a detail with Flitz. Didn't get too aggressive and didn't do any disassembly. No knowledge of Colts. Just wanted to clean the nickel up a little.

A few freckles here and there but all in all.....fairly nice condition.

Finished with a coat of Reniassance Wax.

Waiting on the letter.

Regards Klyde

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Looks better to me, time well spent...

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OGCA Member.

Gorgeous piece.

I inherited one of these in blue (.38 S&W) a couple of years back. I've never been much of a Colt person - but I think the Police Positive is really a neat gun. I got some brass, dies and bullets and loaded up ammo for it. I don't shoot it much but it's really fun when I do. It feels like I'm stepping back in time.

Our BPD Colt Police Positives were marked B-P-D xxxA. I'll have to check mine. No nickle plating, but who knows, a batch may have been nickeled or someone nickeled them after they were traded off. The wear mark should be deeper to get the stampings off-maybe it's from someone resting their hand on it for years. The rest of the gun looks fantastic-shined up nice. If it was carried for years in a holster, it'd be banged up big time.

Who was the decedent, I probably knew him. P mail me.
Steve

If the nickel finish is the orig Factory nickel plating, the Colt VP proof mark will have been struck THROUGH that orig plating,,,not plated over it.

That stamping will break the edges of the plating or at least disturbs it enough so as to easily be ID'd as being through the plating.
It was the last thing done before the gun was sent to the warehouse for shipping. It was Colt's Proof mark and also their final inspection for quality mark.

If the mark has been plated over (a re-plating refinish) the mark will not be as sharp and the plating finish at the edges of the figure will not disturbed. It may be slightly blurred even if it wasn't polished over. The plating applied over the top of the park will take away any sharpness it had when it was orig stamped.

The VP proof mark is on the left side of the trigger guard on the forward section where it joins the frame.

I can't get a really good look at it by enlarging the pics, but the finish may be a refinish.
If so, perhaps the BPD marking was removed prior to the refinishing,,then the gun replated.
But when completed the BPD marking may have still showed through.
The extra polish we see now through to the base steel in that area was to remove the final remnant of the old mark still showing.

Old Stampings have a way of showing up on refinished, polished steel. Refinishers and restoration people call them ghost images.
Especially problematic showing up on high polished hot blued refinished surfaced. But also on plated work as well as they usually get a very high polish finish before the plating.

The brighter the polish of the surface, the better chance the image will reappear.
It's from the impression(s) being compressed metal and therefore a bit harder/denser than the surrounding metal.
That's also the reason the old marks can usually be 'raised' using acid and other chemicals.
The chemicals react differently with the steel being just slightly different density/hardness.


Just my thoughts.

The Police Positive Colts were some of the most popular police guns of the 1920s. They had a slight advantage over the K-frame S&W Military and Police models, as they were somewhat lighter.

I have this blued Police Positive Special (.38 Special) with a 6" barrel that dates to 1922. I have no idea if it was a police issue. There are no PD markings, but not every agency marked their guns. It's 99 years old and still fully functional!



Here's a direct comparison of this gun with a contemporary S&W M&P shipped in 1923. The Colt is definitely a trimmer gun.

John

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Camera cannot get a really close image. Not an expert, but looking at it through a magnifying glass the VP looks fairly crisp. I'm thinking 5 or 10 thousands of nickel plating would really muddy it up.





Waiting on the letter.

Regards

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