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  #1  
Old 02-11-2021, 08:33 PM
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A week or so ago I posted about a LGS with an Interarms PPK/s for sale. I bought it and today I noticed it’s not marked PPK/s, just PPK. It has the open mainspring without a backstrap and grips that wrap around the mainspring forming a backstrap. It has 6+1 capacity.
Is the PPK better or less disireable than the s model.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:03 PM
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Just my personal opinion, but I consider the PPK the more desirable of the two.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:03 PM
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PP is a medium small pistol PPk is a "Kurt" or short version of the PP. The PPk/s is a post 1968 extended version of the PPk, that can be imported!

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Old 02-11-2021, 09:30 PM
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PPK Grip is shorter, one round less. Some people find the longer grip of the PPKS easier to handle/shoot. Understandable.
For the same reasons the PPK is a lot easier to conceal. Which one is more desirable is an individual choice


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Old 02-11-2021, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
PP is a medium small pistol PPk is a "Kurt" or short version of the PP. The PPk/s is a post 1968 extended version of the PPk, that can be imported!

Ivan
You are correct. But is one more desirable than the other?
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:50 PM
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Two answers. Many see the PPK/S (fine pistol as it is) as a "government mandated/importable" version of the PPK, so find it less desirable than the original, or even a PP.

The second answer is - if you really like it, feel free to ignore everyone else's opinion.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:10 PM
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Either way it's a fine weapon you can be proud to own!

My PPK was made in the early 1960s and is a very fine shooting and handling gun!
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:22 PM
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If you research the PPK there were PP, PPK and PPK/S variants.

If you "Deutschsprachigen" the PP stood for Poleize Pistol, the PPK stood for Poleize Pistol Klein (small)...
In order to get around the GCA 1968 the PPK/S mated the shorter PPK slide to the longer PP frame.

For what its worth IMO the PPK is the top of the heap.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
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You are correct. But is one more desirable than the other?
The PPK is generally more desirable because that's the one that James Bond carries in most of the films.

The PPK/S is basically a hybrid between the full-size Walther PP and the subcompact PPK that was only invented in order to bypass the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Most Walther fans prefer either the PP or PPK to the PPK/S. It's also worth noting that the PPK is less common in the United States due to the aforementioned Gun Control Act which rendered it ineligible for importation into the US. However, that's only true of imported models, as the PPK can and has been produced domestically under license.
Interarms has both imported and domestically produced the PPK, so depending on whether or not yours has the tell-tale "Made in USA" on the slide, it could be a rare pre-GCA model.

Personally, I prefer the PPK/S for the longer grip, but I'm in the minority there. Most folks want James Bond's gun, and that's the PPK.

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Old 02-12-2021, 01:44 AM
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I carred a PPK for more than 20 years, of off duty carry. Great gun, now carry a SID 365. A bit more powerful!
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:55 AM
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You are correct. But is one more desirable than the other?
It depends how you mean it. Collector-wise? Generally, if it‘s German-made, a PPK will draw much higher prices because since 1968 no more have been imported.

On the guns produced in the US for Interarms, that doesn‘t apply, and you can go with your grip preference. Ranger made mostly .380 and only a relatively short run of .32, so those are usually a bit pricier. But none are desirable collectibles to most people.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:00 AM
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I prefer a PPK to a PP or PPK/S, I also prefer my 2 Interarms PPK s to the 2 S&W PPK/S and PPK that I owned.
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Old 02-12-2021, 08:52 AM
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I collect factory new Walthers. I have a PPK/S, PPK, and a TPH so far. I like the PPK the best by far.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:52 AM
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Have an Interarms PPK 380, and it is one of the most accurate "smaller" guns owned. Personally prefer the shorter grip for cc, but if pistol was not intended as possible carry piece, would prefer the longer grip. While outdated, it ain't going away anytime soon.
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Old 02-12-2021, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACORN View Post
A week or so ago I posted about a LGS with an Interarms PPK/s for sale. I bought it and today I noticed it’s not marked PPK/s, just PPK. It has the open mainspring without a backstrap and grips that wrap around the mainspring forming a backstrap. It has 6+1 capacity.
Is the PPK better or less disireable than the s model.
Can be waaaay more desirable! The PPK/S was "invinted" because Walther couldn't import the PPK into the US because of some silly size constraints the ATF put on imports at that time.
The PPK/S is actually a "red headed step child" because it's the marrying of the PP frame and the PPK slide, "S" stands for Sport.
Pictures, please!
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Old 02-12-2021, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
The PPK is generally more desirable because that's the one that James Bond carries in most of the films.

The PPK/S is basically a hybrid between the full-size Walther PP and the subcompact PPK that was only invented in order to bypass the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Most Walther fans prefer either the PP or PPK to the PPK/S. It's also worth noting that the PPK is less common in the United States due to the aforementioned Gun Control Act which rendered it ineligible for importation into the US. However, that's only true of imported models, as the PPK can and has been produced domestically under license.
Interarms has both imported and domestically produced the PPK, so depending on whether or not yours has the tell-tale "Made in USA" on the slide, it could be a rare pre-GCA model.

Personally, I prefer the PPK/S for the longer grip, but I'm in the minority there. Most folks want James Bond's gun, and that's the PPK.

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My Smith & Wesson manufactured PPK/S
Don’t feel lonely because I feel the same way. After shooting a friend’s old German PP variation .22 (I think it was a PP) I wanted one in .380. But I specifically desired the 1968 compromise gun, the PPK/S. I liked the longer butt with shorter slide. So I waited until an Interarms popped up for sale in the $400 range and got this for $425 with ammo about ten years ago. But the original James Bond PPK is for sure more desirable.


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Old 02-12-2021, 11:07 AM
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Given a choice between a PPK and a PPK/S, I'd take the PPK. It has a slightly shorter grip frame and one round less in the magazine, but it is also the pistol most associated with James Bond and I am a huge fan of the James Bond movies.
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:43 AM
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Since I didn‘t address the aesthetics and my practical preference in my previous post, let me add that:

I think the PP is one of the most elegant pistols ever designed. The PPK looks like a PP was forcibly shrunk, and the grip is a lot less comfortable even if you don‘t have particularly large hands. So from a purely practical point, the PPK/S is preferable to a PPK, but I‘d rather get an old PP any day.

Of course as others have described, the PPK/S has no history or significance as a service pistol or cultural icon at all, compared to the PP and PPK.
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Old 02-12-2021, 12:40 PM
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Once upon a time the PPK was considered a small sized CCW, I carried one for years.
Nowadays there are much smaller lighter pocket .380 options like the LCP etc.

The PPK is just a cool historic pistol and that has a big allure. The PP is much bigger, considering .380 ammo is fairly anemic and more expensive when compared to its big brother 9mm and Russian cousin 9mm Mak (which is between the two).
Not sure why anyone would choose the bigger heavier PP or PPK/S over the smaller PPK, Then again that's why they make more than 1 flavour of ice cream.

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Old 02-12-2021, 01:11 PM
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Seems as though I many times prefer things that others don't, and the same is true in this case.

I chose an Interarms PPK/S over a PPK back in the late 1980's because I liked the extra round the PPK/S provided. That PPK/S was my CC pistol for many years.....until I retired it in favor of lighter and higher capacity offerings. I still have that PPK/S and take it out to shoot ever so often. I can't remember a FTF or FTE ever with it ..... it has been very reliable with all brands and configurations of 380acp ammo. That's just me, I like the PPK/S version.

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Old 02-12-2021, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
....
Not sure why anyone would choose the bigger heavier PP or PPK/S over the smaller PPK, Then again that's why they make more than 1 flavour of ice cream.
See, it’s all relative.

As somebody who carried full-sized 1911s as CCW for years, I never saw why anyone would need to sacrifice a good grip and shrink the PP any further
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:05 PM
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It depends entirely on personal tastes. I have a PP, a PPK and a couple of PPK/Ss. I prefer the PPK/S. The longer grip fits my hand better and the shorter barrel makes for easier carry. The best of both worlds.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:15 PM
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PPK is more desirable. Both are fine guns.
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Old 02-12-2021, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
PP is a medium small pistol PPk is a "Kurt" or short version of the PP. The PPk/s is a post 1968 extended version of the PPk, that can be imported!
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Kurz. Not Kurt.
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:34 PM
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Kurz. Not Kurt.
I second that correction. However ....

Walther introduced and advertised the pistol in the 1930s as the "Kriminalmodell". There is no evidence anywhere in the German literature, including Walther's own stuff, that it ever meant "kurz".

There is also no evidence that PPK is actually an acronym. In other words, "Polizei-Pistole Kriminal" (or "Polizei-Pistole Kurz") isn't a thing or a term.

The thinking at Walther seems to have been that the PP is the Polizeipistole, and for the Kriminalmodell we add a K to the end.

Attached snips are pre-war.
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
I second that correction. However ....

Walther introduced and advertised the pistol in the 1930s as the "Kriminalmodell". There is no evidence anywhere in the German literature, including Walther's own stuff, that it ever meant "kurz".

There is also no evidence that PPK is actually an acronym. In other words, "Polizei-Pistole Kriminal" (or "Polizei-Pistole Kurz") isn't a thing or a term.

The thinking at Walther seems to have been that the PP is the Polizeipistole, and for the Kriminalmodell we add a K to the end.
While you are absolutely correct in your explanation of the meaning of PPK vs PP, the earlier poster was apparently confused, as we know the term "Kurz" actually refers to the cartridge - i.e 9mmK which is the European designation for our .380acp.
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:53 AM
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My pedestrian shooter tastes in the Walther PPK were satisfied with the PPK/S in 22 LR at half the cost of the 380 and a more sensible round from my point of view. The only drawback is the present scarcity of PPK/S 22 LR magazines. Clearly the PPK and 380 gf any variant is more desirable to the market.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:05 AM
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....., as we know the term "Kurz" actually refers to the cartridge - i.e 9mmK which is the European designation for our .380acp.
Indeed. This can lead to some interesting confusions.

I think I‘ve mentioned this in the forum before: After WW II the British loaned some .38 Webleys to Berlin police, which showed up in German documents as chambered in “9mm kurz”. I found this odd until I realized what had happened: The British designation for the .38/200 revolver caliber is .380. Some German looked for the German caliber equivalent, and picked the wrong one, the German term for the .380 ACP caliber.
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Old 02-13-2021, 10:38 AM
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Indeed. This can lead to some interesting confusions.

I think I‘ve mentioned this in the forum before: After WW II the British loaned some .38 Webleys to Berlin police, which showed up in German documents as chambered in “9mm kurz”. I found this odd until I realized what had happened: The British designation for the .38/200 revolver caliber is .380. Some German looked for the German caliber equivalent, and picked the wrong one, the German term for the .380 ACP caliber.
Hmmmm....now I’m beginning to understand why I can’t get 60 rounds in my j frame snubby.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:43 PM
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I have a shield 9mm. So why is it that I still want a PPK/s? It is heavier, I think physically larger with the same or less number of rounds with a less powerful 380. All things that detract from concealed carry.

So why am I drawn to a PPK like a moth to a flame????
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Old 02-13-2021, 04:02 PM
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Pic of S&W M59 and S&Walther PPKs in 9mm/380ACP.
We always ride the hammer down when using the safety/decocker.
I'd bet the PPKs will out shoot the M59 at 25/50 yds.
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Old 02-13-2021, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
I second that correction. However ....
Walther introduced and advertised the pistol in the 1930s as the "Kriminalmodell". There is no evidence anywhere in the German literature, including Walther's own stuff, that it ever meant "kurz".
There is also no evidence that PPK is actually an acronym. In other words, "Polizei-Pistole Kriminal" (or "Polizei-Pistole Kurz") isn't a thing or a term.
The thinking at Walther seems to have been that the PP is the Polizeipistole, and for the Kriminalmodell we add a K to the end.
Attached snips are pre-war.
That's all nice. The word in German is kurz, not kurt.
However....
The word kurz has nothing at all to do with what Walther called any of their pistols.
Kurz is the German word that translates to 'short' in English. Kurz has nothing at all to do with any model of Walther. Kurz refers to the .380 round or what is also known as the 9mm kurz or 9mm short. You'll find the word kurz, ie, 9mm kurz, on the German and Interarms Walthers chambered in the .380.
To relate this to Walther a 9mm kurz can be found in the PP, PPK, and the PPK/s.
The English word for German Kurt is still Kurt. A guy's name.
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Old 02-14-2021, 11:53 AM
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That's all nice....

However....
The word kurz has nothing at all to do with what Walther called any of their pistols.
I’m somewhat at a loss about your “however”, since that’s exactly what I explained, a bit better documented than you

To add an observation, “kurz” is not as far removed from Walther pistols or as wedded to the .380 caliber as you seem to believe. In fact, in modern times Walther marketing themselves used the “kurz” instead of “Kriminalmodell” to explain the K of the PPK, to the horror of collectors. They changed the website after apparent protests. Since “kurz” means short and aptly describes the PPK relative to the PP, and the letter k was used by other manufacturers for that purpose, like the Mauser 98k from the same era, it’s an easy assumption to make.

Last edited by Absalom; 02-14-2021 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:39 PM
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My pedestrian shooter tastes in the Walther PPK were satisfied with the PPK/S in 22 LR at half the cost of the 380 and a more sensible round from my point of view. The only drawback is the present scarcity of PPK/S 22 LR magazines. Clearly the PPK and 380 gf any variant is more desirable to the market.
I hope this is not hijacking this thread, but I was coming to this thread to ask about a PPK/S or PPK in .22lr. I was wondering if anyone had one and liked it? Also, why are they half the cost?
Thanks.
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:26 PM
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I hope this is not hijacking this thread, but I was coming to this thread to ask about a PPK/S or PPK in .22lr. I was wondering if anyone had one and liked it? Also, why are they half the cost?
Thanks.
Larry
That may have been several years ago, when the .22 PPK/S was being imported and plentiful and the supply of PPKs was limited. Also, there was a more recent .22 PPK but it is no longer listed on the Walther website.

I have shot both a PP and PPK in .22, fine guns.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:05 PM
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I can still find it on the Walther Arms website.

PPK/s 22 | Black – www.waltherarms.com

I think the lower price is mainly due to it being mostly a zinc-alloy and plastic construction. But it is actually made in Germany, at the Walther plant in Arnsberg.
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:44 AM
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I hope this is not hijacking this thread, but I was coming to this thread to ask about a PPK/S or PPK in .22lr. I was wondering if anyone had one and liked it? Also, why are they half the cost?
Thanks.
Larry
When I was looking a year or two back, I could get a Stainless looking alloy PPK in 22LR for about $350 or a blue one from Academy for $299 or a 380 Model of numerous types for $650+. I am not a fan of 380 so I did not ask why or look intensely into possible cheaper 380 models. As stated, I am happy with my less expensive choice,.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:23 AM
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The PPK is the "Bond" gun and a hot item since the first Bond movie in 1962/63...... "Dr No".

I carried a Interarms stainless PPK .380 as my "suit gun"; holstered in a Milt Sparks summer special, from about 1984 until I got my first S&W 3913...... (think ASP) in 1989.

Still have that PPK, and it goes to every Bond movie premier........ .....another.380 in blue and a PPK/s in .32apc.

As to value I got the PPK/s about 3 years ago with 4 magazines for about $300 out the door...... cus it was a .32and a PPK/s!
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Old 02-15-2021, 12:45 PM
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Here are the two PPK variants -

This is the original PPK - this particular one made during WWII, a war bringback by a P-47 fighter pilot friend who willed it to me. The "K" stands for "kriminal" - for criminal detectives to carry more discreetly.



And this is the PPK/S - or "Sport" to meet U.S. importation criteria - a PPK upper and a PP (Polizei Pistole) lower.

John

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Old 02-15-2021, 01:02 PM
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....

And this is the PPK/S - or "Special" to meet U.S. importation criteria - .....
John:

According to Walther, the S actually stands for “Sport”.

It was a nod to the wording in the GCA and accompanying regulations in regard to importable guns having to be “for sporting purposes”.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:22 PM
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In response to questions about the .22 PPK/S:
There are actually two versions of these. The original all steel version goes back to the 1930s. These have become highly sought after collectibles which go for big bucks. Extra magazines are extremely hard to find and ridiculously expensive.
The current PPK/S .22 is an updated redesign of the pistol. It has a Zamak alloy frame along with other more modern materials and production methods. It also uses a different magazine which is reasonably priced. Aside from a terrible DA trigger pull, these guns are very good. I have one and like it a lot. This version also comes with a threaded barrel that can take a thread adapter to fit most .22 suppressors.
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:51 PM
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In response to questions about the .22 PPK/S:
There are actually two versions of these. The original all steel version goes back to the 1930s. These have become highly sought after collectibles which go for big bucks. Extra magazines are extremely hard to find and ridiculously expensive.
The current PPK/S .22 is an updated redesign of the pistol. It has a Zamak alloy frame along with other more modern materials and production methods. It also uses a different magazine which is reasonably priced. Aside from a terrible DA trigger pull, these guns are very good. I have one and like it a lot. This version also comes with a threaded barrel that can take a thread adapter to fit most .22 suppressors.
Well, close.

The PPK was made from 1931 as a smaller PP version. The PPK/s was made in response to the GCA '68 legislation that banned smaller imported guns.

Just as a side note, there is an earlier aluminum frame version, the PPK-L, made in the 1960s in .22 and .32.
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