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  #1  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:08 PM
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Of all the 72 guns I’ve accumulated over the years, most of which I don’t have any more, 17% of them had problems when I got them.

Typically, problems not obvious during initial inspection. 11% of the guns I’ve bought new had problems requiring either a trip to the factory, to a gunsmith, or replacing an incorrect part. 23% of the used ones had issues that either required factory help, a gunsmith, or I just didn’t feel like dealing with. Two others, not included in the 17%, developed problems after I’d shot them for a while, both easily fixed.

Two of the 17% were S&W revolvers, one new, one from 1978.

Maybe I’m a sucker, or is this similar to what others have encountered?
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:11 AM
30-30remchester 30-30remchester is offline
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Spending a lot of time on our ranges, I watch for guns of others and mine that fail. Just kind of a hobby. Some guns I do not like, work well, some I like dont. A few, the Remington 870 expresses have troubles extracting a spent shell from the chamber, requiring a butt slam on concrete while pulling on the forend. Remington 1100's often fail to extract when dirty or using handloads. Marlin 336 wont cycle in most cases when laid on its left side. Often they also fail to feed when bottom screw near magazine tube gets loose. Several Marlin 1895's have loose forends when the dovertail on the barrel becomes loose, needing to be welded or peened. Have had 2 marlin 1895's that the front sight fell off during shooting. The older Ruger 77's tang safety models were horribly unreliable feeding from the magazine. Had a post 64 model 70 in 458 that would not extract. Some older Ruger 77's would spring the floorplate during recoil dropping all the cartridges in the dirt. A particular S&W model 41 refuses to cycle and stovepipes with any ammo tried. Saw the front sight of a Henry survival rifle fall off when taken out of its case. Over the years I have seen too many to count. The one gun I personally dislike, the Remington 700 series, seems to function fine and reliably in most cases. And lets not forget the Remington 788's. I have seen 2, break off the bolt handle, and I have only been around 3. A newer S&W 22 revolver is so out of time, nobody will stand next to the shooter in competition as it spits lead in all directions. Ah memories.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:34 AM
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Bought a used Model 63 off GB that turned out to have a chipped forcing cone. The factory made it right for free. Bought a NOS Grand Power 9mm that turned out to be in the narrow serial number range of suspect barrels. The importer made it right for free.

Of my many milsurps, the most notable is a nice matching Winchester built Pattern 14 that dislikes FMJ rounds. It's unusual for a military gun for prefer SP bullets, but Winchester P14s have a rep for being funky. Despite the UK sending only one set of drawings, the Winchester guns are largely incompatible with the rifles from other factories.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:30 PM
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The last 7 new S&W all had something wrong with them, sent some back , fixed some my self, living with the problems on a couple right now, may send back. Pretty sad QC, or lack Of QC I should say.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:27 PM
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My experience with new guns is similar. I learned to look for and diagnose problems by running a variety of Kel-tecs for about 8 years. All went back to the factory at least once, some more than once. So that skews my statistics.

However, I owned three Sig rifles. All were returned to the factory and two required additional replacement upgraded parts, self installed, soon after.

An AR pistol from Diamondback required two trips back to the manufacturer for the same problem, a misaligned for-end.

A Beretta M1 shotgun would not reliably cycle standard birdshot, only heavy buckshot. Never was fixed properly.

A brand new ParaOrdnance P12 .45 choked on feeding the second round ever fired from it. The slide was locked up so tight my dealer returned it to PO with the unfired round jammed just out of the chamber.

FN FS 2000 was unreliable for feeding. Sent it back and was told to use only certain GI aluminum mags. Better, but still not 100% reliable.

My first Mossberg 144 .22 target rifle (1964) arrived new with a bulged bull barrel. Not visible from the outside, but when cleaning there is a noticeable “jump” with no friction in the middle of the barrel. Shot OK so I’ve left it that way.

Seventeen percent of new guns with problems requiring factory fixes of some kind? Yup, pretty close to that figure. I figure their original cost was about $7,000 total. That is ignoring used guns, some of which I’m sure were sold and I bought knowing they did not function correctly.

Such trips are expensive for the time involved, often with shipping charges, the lack of confidence in the gun thereafter that takes much longer (more ammo) to overcome, and certainly my stress and aggravation factors count for some $$$. Customer service experiences have been good about 50% of the time. Of course, that means they have been bad about 50% of the time.

I have learned many lessons on what and how to buy.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:47 PM
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A bought a used Remington Nylon 66 some years ago that turned out to have a bulged barrel. Full refund from the dealer, no questions asked.

I bought a Ruger Security-Six, SS, even further back. The cylinder would bind up after a couple of cylinder fulls. Sent it back to Ruger, they fixed it.

The only other gun I remember having any trouble with was a Uberti 22, Single Action. The cylinder would lock up, just working the action. I never even shot it. Sent it back, got it back a few weeks later...same problem. Sent it back again. Same problem. Full refund from dealer.

No...wait...2020 Colt Python. After about 600 rounds I experienced the dreaded cylinder skip that was so talked about last year, but I noticed the sideplate screws had worked loose. A minute or so with a screwdriver tightened them up, and they've never been a problem again.

Out of all the guns I've owned, those are the only ones I can remember having any kind of problem with. I do buy most of my guns used, so maybe that has something to do with it. Of the four above, three were NIB.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:12 PM
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Interesting thread for sure. Thought most of the complaints were going to deal with more currently made guns due to "budget" offerings or cutbacks in QC. All of mine were purchased more than 40 years back with the exception of the R/A in 22 mag. Guess I been lucky. No complaints with my 1100, 700, and even the semi Model Four Remington. I too usually browse the used gun racks for the walnut and decent bluing of the past.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:37 PM
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Over the 100's of guns I have bought, sold or traded, I had only 2 that were dogs.

1) Brand new Ruger P89. Would not reliably fire. Kind of like a light primer strike, but with no rhyme or reason. DA/SA, different brands of ammo. Went back to Ruger. Didn't get fixed. Soured me on Ruger centerfire pistols for years... until I bought the KP95 recently.

2) Brand new Auto Ordnance M1 Tommy Gun semiautomatic rifle. Total piece of unreliable garbage. Not inexpensive garbage either. Went back to A/O twice. 3rd time I insisted on a new gun. Got it. No better than the original.
Traded off at a loss. Tommy Gun Warehouse/Kahr is approximately 45 minutes from my house. I would rather burn a pile of cash than give it to them.

That's it.
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
And lets not forget the Remington 788's. I have seen 2, break off the bolt handle, and I have only been around 3.
My first gun purchase, back around the end of the Civil War, - was a Remington 788 in .308 Winchester. It was then and is now a tack driver.

The only guns I ever had trouble with were used guns. I never had a problem with a new one, and I've gone through a couple of hundred I reckon. Or close to that.

I guess I'm just lucky.
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:20 PM
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Lets see: M&P380 put 200, rounds through it. good to go.
P365 put 100 rounds through it. good to go
Shield .45 put 100, rounds through it. good to go.
Used series 80 COlt 1911. put 100 rounds through it good to go.
RUger RSI Hawkeye in .223. sighted it in. good to go.
Must be doing something wrong......
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:31 PM
30-30remchester 30-30remchester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
My first gun purchase, back around the end of the Civil War, - was a Remington 788 in .308 Winchester. It was then and is now a tack driver.

The only guns I ever had trouble with were used guns. I never had a problem with a new one, and I've gone through a couple of hundred I reckon. Or close to that.

I guess I'm just lucky.
What is so interesting , to me, is the fact that the 788's are quite accurate right out of the box. If you are a student of gun design like me, there is no way they should shoot as well as they do. Doesn't mean they are not tender. The vast majority of my observations of gun failure have been on ranges. If these guns were ever relied on in the field I assume their failure rate would sky rocket. Then again hunting whitetails back east where tree stands is the way to hunt, is far different than hunting out west and up north. Hunting here is more walk, crawl, wade, stumble, fall, drop the gun, roll down mountain, ect. for up to 10 days and if lucky you get one chance at a bull elk. And all this time it has snowed, and rained and frozen you and your equipment. I just cant image designing a survival rifle like the Henry, relying on it to keep you alive, and finding out the sight has fallen off somewhere.
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:36 PM
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Of the many, many guns I have bought and traded over the years, there has been only 1 single gun that was a junker. It was a Mossberg 22 semi-auto AR 15 lookalike that was made in Mexico. It shot like a scattergun even at 10 feet. It went back 4 times (to Mexico) and each time they did some stupid "repair" that did not solve the problem. I insisted on a barrel replacement and they would not comply. The gun's reputation was not bad, and they absolutely refused to replace it. I ended up selling it for 10 cents on the dollar and replaced it with a S&W 15-22.

As a confirmed Mossberg owner for 50 years, they lost my business after that incident.

The only other gun that ever went back to the mothership was a Ruger Mark 4 that was recalled. I did not feel it needed any changes, but they insisted, and made the transfer so easy that I sent it back.

Every Smith I ever owned has been a gem.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:28 PM
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I most like the Ruger BlackHawks that shoot the base pins out; Must be where Ford got the idea of spitting spark plugs. I had a Stainless Super BlackHawk that shot out the entire ejector rod assembly. I like also the Rem 700's that get sticky bolt stops so when you retract the bolt from battery it just keeps a'commin all the way out. Another good one was the Walther PPK which the drum safety broke while employing the decocker firing the round in chamber. Anyone ever get M1 Thumb from a M14 when the magazine tab failed to lock up the bolt stop thing? How about the Ithaca Featherlight that spills out all the shells from the tube magazine when you open the action.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantannojack View Post

I had a Stainless Super BlackHawk that shot out the entire ejector rod assembly.
I had a blue one that the ejector rod assembly came off too. But they fixed it and never had any further problems.

Back in the early 1980s I bought a S&W Model 624. I wondered why the cylinder would drag sometimes. I figured out the cylinder face was uneven and would drag on the forcing cone. It was under warranty so I sent it back. I have to give S&W credit. Not only did they fix the problem I complained about, but I think they went over the whole gun and tuned it up, because it just felt like it was operating better when it came back. I still have the gun and haven't had any problems with it since.
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Old 02-26-2021, 03:05 AM
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I guess I've been lucky perhaps.

I've bought new and used. over 200 over 45 years of acquisition and selling, and other than an Uberti Yellow Boy 66 reproduction I've never had a lemon. That one was returned to the dealer for a full refund.

And I've had so many Colt 1911s that ran like a top, right out of the box and with multiple bullet types, that I wonder every time I read about how 1911s have to be "tweaked " to run properly. That's been a TOTAL myth for the 20 or so that have gone through my hands, new and used.

Just my observation. YMMV.
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Old 02-26-2021, 03:35 PM
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The only new gun that gave me problems is a Rock Island Armory 12 gauge. Haven't got around to sending it in for service although I hear their customer service is excellent. So I'd say less than 1%.
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Old 02-26-2021, 04:08 PM
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First:

Quote:
If these guns [Remington Model 788s] were ever relied on in the field I assume their failure rate would sky rocket.
I dragged that M788 around the West Texas woods many times and it has the nicks and dings to prove it. In rain, too. It never failed to do its job on a whitetail if I did my part.

Second:

I lied. Y'all spurred some memories. My Walter PPK/S .22 was nearly impossible to shoot when it was new, it's trigger was so bad. I had it smithed and I think it's okay now but I juts rarely bother with it. My Walter P-22s are fine but are finicky about ammunition.
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Old 02-26-2021, 05:30 PM
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I bought a new Springfield Armory with a loose front sight almost flew off- just had my gunsmith pard stake it on good.

I bought a new Rossi 92 that locked up lever would not budge- another gunsmith fixed it it took months but it got fixed.

I bought a Ruger Vaquero new on line that was a dog never sent it back to get it fixed - large cylinder gap etc, very bad scouring of the cylinder etc. another Vaquero I bought on line was first rate like out of a custom shop go figure.

I got sick and my hands got crippled could not pick up a full size pistol I bought a Browning 1911 22 slide will not lock back I put it in the back of the safe disgusted..

So IMO the quality of guns has dropped far- never saw a lemon new American made gun when I was young.

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 02-26-2021 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 02-26-2021, 06:06 PM
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Leave it to me to have a Glock break on me! It was a .380, I think G42. I don't know what I did to it but something inside it broke. I took it to a smith & they had it fixed pretty quick. I never really liked the gun, but it hit what I aimed at within 25 yards. I don't remember what the part was that broke, they blamed it on me, of course! All I ever did to it was clean it after shooting it. Easy peasy. Well, Glocks are not Jeff-proof!
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Old 02-26-2021, 06:09 PM
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Oh, I bought a new Ruger 5" .327 FMag that I had to send back twice: loose wood right outta the box, then something with the trigger assembly they had to fix. I forgot about that one.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:44 PM
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Out of about 40 firearms over the decades I've had two that didn't function right:

Keltec P-32 would get a feed jam about every 2nd or 3 magazine. Returned to Keltec and was fixed.

Kahr CW40. Slide would lock back with rounds in magazine. Did the 200 round break in with no change. I sent it back to Kahr either 2 or 3 times but it was never fixed. I sold it with full disclosure to the buyer. Because of it's positive features I bought a K40 that never missed a lick.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:52 PM
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You're asking me to compare your poor buying decisions to mine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
Of all the 72 guns I’ve accumulated over the years, most of which I don’t have any more, 17% of them had problems when I got them.

Typically, problems not obvious during initial inspection. 11% of the guns I’ve bought new had problems requiring either a trip to the factory, to a gunsmith, or replacing an incorrect part. 23% of the used ones had issues that either required factory help, a gunsmith, or I just didn’t feel like dealing with. Two others, not included in the 17%, developed problems after I’d shot them for a while, both easily fixed.

Two of the 17% were S&W revolvers, one new, one from 1978.

Maybe I’m a sucker, or is this similar to what others have encountered?
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:35 AM
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Literally hundreds of guns have passed through my hands in the last 40 years.
1)I bought a used 226 from CDNN that had a slise that wouldn't go into battery. Used, high mileage police trade. They exchanged it for a brand new one +$50. My son has it now. I was an 01 FFL at the time and that experience probably got them $20K+ worth of business.
2) Pre-27 3 1/2" bought at the Orlando show. Had a bulged barrel. Didn't affect performance but I couldn't like it. Sold it here, with full disclosure and the member was glad to get it.
3) Taurus TP or PT 22. Paid $99 new. Slide cracked under the barrel. They fixed it by welding it and putting a rubber bumper on it. Sold it soon after.
4) Hungarian P9 (Browning P35 look alike). Took two hands to pull the trigger. Traded it for a 2" Model 10-5, a happy day.
I'll say maybe a 1% "problem rate." Joe
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