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Old 03-25-2021, 02:38 PM
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Default Serbu Super Shorty 12 Gauge

Talk about concealed carry and the "Other Weapons" category. Now these are VERY specialized, Very limited use weapons. I post this as an informational post only not as an advocacy post!!!


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Old 03-26-2021, 08:03 PM
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2 shots? Like a shotgun derringer.
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:14 PM
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The Serbu Super Shorty is a really cool firearm, but I prefer the Mossberg 590 Shockwave. It holds more rounds, is easier to shoot, and doesn't require a tax stamp of any kind.

Updated Ammoland Study on Pistol Efficacy-mossberg_590_shockwave_fde-jpg

If I wanted to carry something smaller that can still shoot shotgun shells, then I'd reach for the Taurus Judge.

Knife + handgun photo thread-20201226_123802-jpg
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
2 shots? Like a shotgun derringer.
Actually, three, one carried in the chamber and 2 in the magazine is how they are advertised. The standard model is a little low in capacity but there is a version that uses an 8 round box magazine and even a 12 round drum if you want to go there. I carried a Remington 870 12ga. folding stock with 8 round capacity as my truck gun for many years and it saved my life against two would be robbers.




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Old 03-27-2021, 01:02 PM
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The obvious problem with any weapon in this category is the average citizen is going to be ringing local PDs phones off if they see you with it.
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Old 04-03-2021, 09:47 AM
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I have one. Perfect for defending the front seat from an attack from the way back, but otherwise not a lot of utility. Replacing the pistol grip with a birds head grip helped it a lot, still more of a novelty item. An expensive novelty item.
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Old 04-03-2021, 10:55 AM
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I've often thought the shortened 870s, like the current Tac-14, used by the US Marshals Service WITSEC deputies were pretty cool, and is pretty much the only reason I have for wanting one, as a novelty. IIRC, they had a quick-release mounted on the grip that attached to a shoulder harness worn under a coat on the left side. Left hand would grab the forend and the right hand would hit the release while grabbing the grip to bring it into action.

Depending on how the laws are written where you are, it may even be legal to CC one. Of course, it's probably one of those situations where just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Old 04-03-2021, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
I've often thought the shortened 870s, like the current Tac-14, used by the US Marshals Service WITSEC deputies were pretty cool, and is pretty much the only reason I have for wanting one, as a novelty. IIRC, they had a quick-release mounted on the grip that attached to a shoulder harness worn under a coat on the left side. Left hand would grab the forend and the right hand would hit the release while grabbing the grip to bring it into action.

Depending on how the laws are written where you are, it may even be legal to CC one. Of course, it's probably one of those situations where just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I agree totally as you have to take into account if they are worth the hassle you are going to get from the "constant calls" from the civilians to law enforcement about a man with a "sawed off shotgun". They have a place however it is a very small category. They are neat guns but not a lot of people including law enforcement are really knowable about them or about their legal status and so again the "hassle" factor.

As Forte Smitten Wesson the new legal Shockwaves are less of a hassle and yet like here in CA you can't get them as the are verboten by the powers that be in the CA Peoples Republic. Just like any handgun manufacturer has to pay/bribe CA to get on their APPROVED gun list before they are allowed to be sold in the state of CA. Thus as a civilian why you can't get up to date Glocks in CA etc.,etc. "They" are throwing as many "roadblocks" as possible to extort money from legal gun owners and to buying ammo to take that option away from the poor here in CA. If you relocate to CA and you don't have a gun registered to your residence try buying ammo here. Even if your guns are legal they will charge an extra $25 fee for a background check for every purchase until you get a registered gun taking that ammo to your address; I know because it happened to me. In my case I am talking about .45ACP.

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Old 04-03-2021, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
Depending on how the laws are written where you are, it may even be legal to CC one. Of course, it's probably one of those situations where just because you can doesn't mean you should.
ATF said about the Shockwave:
"Please note that if the subject firearm is concealed on a person, the classification with regard to the NFA may change", which I take to mean it could become AOW.
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Old 04-03-2021, 12:52 PM
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All these type weapons require the use of two hands and are clumsy at that. Around my neck of the woods people have used sawed off shotguns since they crawled out of caves. Not so much for people as for shooting game in thick brush. Some of my friends got these short pumps and they are more less toys. Most people would be better off with a riot type gun.
The stock makes them much more easy to handle.
People that think bird shot is no good for SD are full of it. At Self Defense ranges out of a open choke will leave terrible wound. Most hunting accidents happen at vehicle, loading or unloading guns. When hit with a load of shot at close range you may survive but chances are you are going to have life changing wound.
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Old 04-03-2021, 02:01 PM
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Super short barreled shotguns are sort of like MAC 10 & MAC 11 machine guns in there usefulness. They have their place and uses within a narrow range of their limitations. They can be very effective for clearing buildings, and night raids but in open spaces are very limited.

As stated above birdshot is a good loading for home defense as it cuts down on over penetration in family dwellings yet inside room distances impacts as one solid mass.
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Old 04-03-2021, 02:28 PM
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I have the Safety harbor version on an 870, as suggested I installed a different pistol grip. I bought it as a toy, would not seriously carry it. Although it might make a good bedroom gun. Its 3 shots with one in the tube.
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Old 04-03-2021, 03:56 PM
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Personally, I'm glad the OP didn't advocate for this thing. They are marginally useful at best. You definitely need two hands. For fun, okay, fine. For practical use, I don't think so. YMMV
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Old 04-03-2021, 07:10 PM
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I find it perplexing how so many folks say that pistol grip only shotguns are only marginally useful if not completely useless because they only provide two points of contact yet make no such statements about .460/.500 Magnum Revolvers which only have a single point of contact and a much higher bore axis.

It's even more perplexing that for all the appeals to authority folks on gun forums use to backup their choices for self-defense firearms because "The Military/Law Enforcement uses them" they certainly are quick to ignore how long the Military/Law Enforcement has made use of firearms just like these supposedly marginally useful or otherwise completely useless range toys.
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Old 04-03-2021, 07:36 PM
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I would consider one in .410 with birdshot for in my house. Midnight wake up calls at my bedroom door. If that 12 gauge was hurting Hickok, I sure as all heck don't want to shoot it.
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Old 04-03-2021, 08:03 PM
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US military used short weapons in armored vehicles, tanks, aircraft. DOE used compact 9mm AR15 for vehicle escorts. Mossberg Shockwave has truck gun written all over it.
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Old 04-03-2021, 08:11 PM
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I have had an Ithaca Stakeout since 1988. It is AOW($5.00 tax) and I find it useful for close in self defense in buildings. I carried it when I was a Sheriff and only had to blow a door open once and never shot anyone with it so I do not know how it is on people.

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Old 04-03-2021, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
I find it perplexing how so many folks say that pistol grip only shotguns are only marginally useful if not completely useless because they only provide two points of contact yet make no such statements about .460/.500 Magnum Revolvers which only have a single point of contact and a much higher bore axis.

It's even more perplexing that for all the appeals to authority folks on gun forums use to backup their choices for self-defense firearms because "The Military/Law Enforcement uses them" they certainly are quick to ignore how long the Military/Law Enforcement has made use of firearms just like these supposedly marginally useful or otherwise completely useless range toys.
I agree, as I have said they have a limited range and use but are effective in that range of use. It takes training and skill to use them effectively and properly. They are not for the "average" person to just pick up and use effectively and are subject to misuse by those with criminal intent so must be tightly controlled and monitored thus the federal licensing requirement.
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Old 04-03-2021, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
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I agree, as I have said they have a limited range and use but are effective in that range of use. It takes training and skill to use them effectively and properly. They are not for the "average" person to just pick up and use effectively and are subject to misuse by those with criminal intent so must be tightly controlled and monitored thus the federal licensing requirement.
Asking in a respectful tone, have you shot one of the Shockwave gripped non-shotguns? Any training time to back up the assertions?

I ask because my experience is considerably different than what you are opining. My experience is almost three years of ownership
and 400 mixed shells +/-.
1) My 14 Shockwave 870 is considerably more accurate with the Federal FliteControl than my smoothbore 20 barrel, to my frustration.

2) Cannot notice a difference between slug accuracy between stocked and non stocked 870s.

3) Tons of internet videos of shooting slugs from Shockwaves to 100 yards and beyond. I just do not enjoy slugs enough to try.

4) I found I prefer the recoil of the PGO Shockwave over the stocked 870. Much less bruising for me.
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:23 PM
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The Shockwave is the 14" PGO version of the Mossberg 590, the Remington 870 variant is known as the TAC-14.
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Old 04-05-2021, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal View Post
Actually, three, one carried in the chamber and 2 in the magazine is how they are advertised. The standard model is a little low in capacity but there is a version that uses an 8 round box magazine and even a 12 round drum if you want to go there. I carried a Remington 870 12ga. folding stock with 8 round capacity as my truck gun for many years and it saved my life against two would be robbers.

The 870 Police Folder that you have pictured is not a 3 shot capacity. The one in the picture is wearing a magazine extension

This 870 Police Folder came to me after the FHPA Commander retired. He used to carry it in the trunk of his unmarked car.

These are very uncomfortable to shoot from the shouldered position. Here is the original three shot configuration

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Old 04-06-2021, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
I find it perplexing how so many folks say that pistol grip only shotguns are only marginally useful if not completely useless because they only provide two points of contact yet make no such statements about .460/.500 Magnum Revolvers which only have a single point of contact and a much higher bore axis.


The x frames are just as poor of a choice for a serious gun as a shockwave is, you just don't get as many posters making threads and comments about how great they are for HD, so they don't need to be called out on that foolishness as often as the Shockwave fans do.
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Old 04-06-2021, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardToHandle View Post
Asking in a respectful tone, have you shot one of the Shockwave gripped non-shotguns? Any training time to back up the assertions?

I ask because my experience is considerably different than what you are opining. My experience is almost three years of ownership
and 400 mixed shells +/-.
1) My 14 Shockwave 870 is considerably more accurate with the Federal FliteControl than my smoothbore 20 barrel, to my frustration.

2) Cannot notice a difference between slug accuracy between stocked and non stocked 870s.

3) Tons of internet videos of shooting slugs from Shockwaves to 100 yards and beyond. I just do not enjoy slugs enough to try.

4) I found I prefer the recoil of the PGO Shockwave over the stocked 870. Much less bruising for me.
I have shot the Mossberg Shockwave. My buddies boy bought one for house gun, he also has a Circuit Judge 45/410. I was not impressed by either one.
I do have more experience than most shooting slugs. If a stake out shotgun is out shooting your 20 870, you got a problem. You probably need another barrel. As a rule 870s will shoot into 3 at 100 yds. Unless somebody scopes a Shockwave and shoots it off bags there is no way that they would come close to a standard gun. Shooting at a hill side, using slugs like walking in mortars is not accuracy.
There is always the exception, Im sure somebody has a Olympic grade Stake Out just as there are purpose built slug guns that dont shoot well. For shot at close range is all they are good for.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:13 AM
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I would think the shockwave might work with the opsol adapter and use the short shells. Would add a few more rounds and cut down on the recoil. Either that or go with a 410 shockwave.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
2 shots? Like a shotgun derringer.
Agree. What's the point?????. Takes TWO hands to run it. Where as with a hi-cap handgun. One hand holds the light/opens the door etc. and the other holds the gun.........Same as a Mare's Leg............A hollywood solution to a non existent problem.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardToHandle View Post
Asking in a respectful tone, have you shot one of the Shockwave gripped non-shotguns? Any training time to back up the assertions?

I ask because my experience is considerably different than what you are opining. My experience is almost three years of ownership
and 400 mixed shells +/-.
1) My 14 Shockwave 870 is considerably more accurate with the Federal FliteControl than my smoothbore 20 barrel, to my frustration.

2) Cannot notice a difference between slug accuracy between stocked and non stocked 870s.

3) Tons of internet videos of shooting slugs from Shockwaves to 100 yards and beyond. I just do not enjoy slugs enough to try.

4) I found I prefer the recoil of the PGO Shockwave over the stocked 870. Much less bruising for me.
No, I have not, though I would love to, because I presently reside in the Peoples Republic of California where they are verboten comrade.

I have a lot of experience shooting a Remington 870 folding stock pistol grip riot model 8-shot pump. The only thing I am saying is that the shorter the gun the more training and range time you need to be effective at ranges past extremely close. I am not an advocate of super shot shotguns but for the trained professional or civilian. I have long read and heard that a grip like on the Shockwave is easier on the shooting hand than a pistol grip but have no personal firsthand experience of that.

Accuracy is a function of ones ability to properly aim shots especially at moving targets at range which to me means you need good sights and contact surfaces with the body to hold those sights steady to gain hits on said moving targets. One shoots how it works best for them.

Amazing accuracy can be achieved without the use of sights when trained by methods like "Quick Kill" as taught in the U.S. Army all the way back during Vietnam at close ranges. Check it out for yourself.

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Old 04-06-2021, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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The x frames are just as poor of a choice for a serious gun as a shockwave is, you just don't get as many posters making threads and comments about how great they are for HD, so they don't need to be called out on that foolishness as often as the Shockwave fans do.
I wasn't referring to the Shockwave's potential application as a Home Defense Firearm, but rather as a Wilderness Defense Firearm.
That being said, I myself use the Shockwave for Home Defense, and specifically chose it over a full-size 590 because it would be nearly impossible to maneuver around within my home with a full-length Shotgun, so the benefits of a shoulder stock was effectively moot. Furthermore, with proper technique and sufficient strength, the Shockwave works well as a Home Defense firearm since distances within ones home aren't nearly long enough for any increase in pellet spread or any (if any) loss in accuracy at such close range to make a difference.

There seems to be a misconception that the ONLY way to fire a PGO Scattergun is from the hip, because if you attempt to aim it using a conventional hold then the recoil force will drive the firearm backwards directly into the shooter's face. However, with sufficient arm strength and a proper push/pull grip on the gun, it absolutely will not come back far enough to hit the Shooter's face.
Furthermore, there are other methods of gripping/aiming the firearm which eliminate that risk altogether, such as tucking the rear most part of the grip between the pectoral and bicep, thus allowing it to be aimed without the gun having anything to slam backwards into.
Obviously there are arm braces for the Shockwave as well, but that's another story.

Suffice to say, things aren't always quite as they may appear to be in reality, and it's easy to miss a lot of facts if one bases their expectations strictly on assumptions formed strictly by appearance. If you want to say that the Shockwave isn't "the best" thing for Home Defense, (assuming there even is such a thing) then that's a valid statement, but to say that it's useless, a range toy, or otherwise an extremely poor choice merely because you cannot conceive any method/means of it being a useful alternative beyond the scope of your own perception is very much the opposite. Just because something isn't a good for you, doesn't mean that it's the same for everyone else. People each have their own limitations, and for those like me who lack adequate space to maneuver around with a full-length Shotgun but still desire the decisive defensive capabilities of a Shotgun, possess sufficient strength to manage the recoil, and can train using alternative methods of gripping/aiming the gun, the 590 Shockwave/TAC-14 make for an adequate alternative.

Last but not least, lets just go ahead and address the elephant in the room here, short shotguns are just plain cool, so even if that's the sole reason why anybody wants one, then that's all the reason that a free man needs to own one to begin with.
Everyone has a "movie gun" a gun they saw in movies or videogames that they own strictly because it's cool. Not everyone is willing to admit that because it doesn't sound tough or make the person who said it look like a stoic professional, but regardless, nobody buys every firearm that they own strictly for defensive/offensive purposes, and if they do, then they are probably new to guns and are just prioritizing getting guns they need before guns that they want. Not to say that there isn't any overlap there, but I digress, it's something that people do that there's no reason to be ashamed of, so if anyone here owns a Shockwave or whatever just because it's cool, then more power to them.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:46 AM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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For what what they are designed for and proper loaded there is nothing more devastating used within their range limitation as a SHOTGUN of any barrel length in my opinion.
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