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Old 04-02-2021, 05:37 PM
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Default Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!

WARNING: Put on dark tinted glasses prior to viewing!

Here's a WWI vintage, arsenal rebuild (?) that hasn't fared too well over the last century.
Nonetheless, the internals are good and this isn't one I see very often.
Please share your thoughts.
-Bill





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Old 04-02-2021, 05:47 PM
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Nothing wrong with a 1911. Put a Clark 4-leaf spring in it, and use some touch-up blue on the slide if that's not your name (or even maybe if it is), and you've got the world's best mud-and-the-blood-and-the beer gun.
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Old 04-02-2021, 08:13 PM
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I think its neat,maybe repark it?
(I always picture a guy having one too many and deciding to carve his name in his gun)
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Old 04-02-2021, 08:20 PM
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The .45 auto can knock an average sized man back three feet with no problem. The 1911 platform is the perfect vehicle for that when your back is up against the wall. Your gun isn’t ugly, it’s ‘offensive’ perfected. Congrats on owning one of John Browning’s masterpieces.
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Old 04-02-2021, 08:42 PM
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I'd be proud to own it
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Old 04-02-2021, 08:45 PM
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Bill, if you were a 110 you would'nt be to" pretty" LOL
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Old 04-02-2021, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay View Post
I think its neat,maybe repark it?
(I always picture a guy having one too many and deciding to carve his name in his gun)
It appears as if WL Peyton Jr may have used a graphite pencil to scribe his name over and over, until he was satisfied.

There is no loss to the metal, just the parkerizing.
A re-park might be the best remedy.
-Bill
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Old 04-02-2021, 09:00 PM
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I entered this thread expecting far worse, that 1911 just needs refinished.

Recently I saw a guy trying to see a Remington-Rand 1911 in far worse shape that had been converted to .460 Rowland for upwards of $3000 online.
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Old 04-03-2021, 08:52 AM
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I would not refinish it. I do not know if it is a true arsenal rebuild, I don't see any arsenal stampings in the pictures, so it could be something that was assembled from surplus parts or slapped together and given to an officer on their way out of the army.

30 years ago, such a mix-master would have been considered a shooter grade or gunsmith special piece, but today, with dwindling original parts supplies, even mix-master parts guns using unmodified parts are becoming more valuable.
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Old 04-03-2021, 07:17 PM
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Any idea who he was? I mean, you have a name. I’d check it out of curiosity before I changed it. No rush is there?
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Old 04-04-2021, 10:41 AM
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Just repark the slide and then “age” it to match the frame .
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Old 04-04-2021, 11:02 AM
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Gun has character.

Id just;

Clean it
Shoot it
Rinse
Repeat
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Old 04-04-2021, 11:25 AM
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There was a WL Peyton Jr. lived in Hearne Texas, was born Apr. 8, 1937, died Oct. 29, 1996. His full name was William Luther Peyton Jr. He's buried in Hearne Texas.

His father worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad for many years before he passed in 1972. His father was William Luther Peyton, born Mar. 19, 1914. His father served during WW ll, enlisting Mar. 6, 1941.

This could have been his fathers gun carried during the war and passed down to the son who inscribed his name on it.

I'd leave it alone. If you refinish it you destroy the collectors value and historical value. It's a fine old Colt Government as is!

Worth further research. Just my opinion, hope it helps.

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Old 04-04-2021, 11:52 AM
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I would remove the name and a cold blue touch up and leave it alone. I would have left the name but it looks scratched from trying to remove. You could also shop for a Colt slide as all will interchange. There is a #stamped under the firing pin block before about 1941 that should match if the slide mated with the gun. I like it. If you do anything keep the original parts. It may have been buffed down as the serial # is really faint.

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Old 04-04-2021, 11:52 AM
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the older gun shows were a good place to sell or buy colt 1911 pistols or parts. not now. there are plenty of RE MANUFACTURED slides and frames. every vet should have at least one original colt 1911
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Old 04-04-2021, 12:48 PM
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Should you decide to remove the name, there is nothing there that cannot be repaired without great effort. I've refreshed several real clunkers (and yours isn't really that bad). I am failing to see a serial number which could be problematic - perhaps it is my diminishing eyesight.
All said, I like it. There are very few 1911's I've met that I didn't like.
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Old 04-04-2021, 01:48 PM
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True story. About 8 years ago a coworker told me she was the original owner of a 686 that she wanted to sell . She brings it in the next day and I open up the original box and here is a pristine 4” 686-4 . I take it out and turn it over . *** ?! . She had taken a nail or some sharp instrument and scratched her initials into the side plate . 1” tall initials.
After the shock wore off I still bought it. It took some work but I got that side plate polished out like new .
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Old 04-04-2021, 03:23 PM
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I have to say that I for one STRONGLY disagree with the notion that one ought to leave a firearm in otherwise poor cosmetic condition for the sake of maintaining its originality as well as it's collector's value.

First of all, it's original finish is already been worn away and therefore the gun can no longer rightfully be considered "original" to begin with as it has been altered by the passage of time.
Furthermore, having it refinished does absolutely NOTHING to diminish the history of the firearm. It's completely absurd to think that having a firearm refinished somehow wipes away its history, where it has been, who carried it, how long it has existed, etc. Refinishing it is simply giving it the proper care that it deserves. Frankly, leaving a government-issued 1911 in poor cosmetic condition because restoring it would take away from its originality is like preventing a veteran soldier from wearing a brand new uniform decorated with service medals and insisting that he wear his tattered old, blood-stained fatigues for the sake of authenticity.
Lastly, not all collectors are honest folks who are willing to pay a fair price for the items they obtain, ergo they often come up with excuses which sound deceptively tangible for why an item they wish to add to their collection should cost less so that they don't have to pay as much. They're just as likely to tell you that a firearm being refinished hurts its value as they are to turn around and tell someone else that their cosmetically worn but otherwise well preserved firearm is worth less due to the amount of finish wear it has.

Honestly, for all their petty assertions of diminished value, has anyone ever seen any private collectors aside from historians or folks from museums actually collecting/displaying firearms in worn condition? No, because most private collectors want what they display to be cosmetically attractive, ergo when they do buy worn firearms, they always have them cleaned up and restored, with no concern regarding it supposedly diminishing their collectability because they don't plan on selling them anyway, and even if they had to, I guarantee you that they won't practice what they preach and will just invent new excuses for how their restoration doesn't diminish the collectibility at all. It's a scam.

I guarantee you that regardless of what you do, if you ever try to sell that 1911, any private collector will come up with a reason why it isn't worth as much as you are asking for it. Offer it to a single private collector for a dime and he'll try to talk you down to a nickel because of the name inscribed on the slide.
So I say to heck with their dishonesty and greed, you show that old war horse the honor and respect that it deserves by having it refinished, refitted, or even completely restored. You keep it in your family as a treasure to be looked upon with admiration like it deserves, and if having it refinished hurts its value, then that's all the more reason for future generations to hold onto it as a treasured family heirloom rather than give into temptation and pawn it off for some fast cash.
Even if private collectors do legitimately believe that a refinished firearm is worth less and aren't just trying to rip people off, it's still an idiotic, elitist reason to essentially leave a firearm in cosmetically poor condition.

Personally, If I bought a G.I. 1911 that had belonged to soldier who had lost it by dropping it into a latrine during a battle and it had never been cleaned since being recovered and now nobody cleans it because a bunch of loonies consider it being encrusted in filth part of its rich history, I would still clean it, even if it made the gun worthless in the process.
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearpa View Post
There was a WL Peyton Jr. lived in Hearne Texas, was born Apr. 8, 1937, died Oct. 29, 1996. His full name was William Luther Peyton Jr. He's buried in Hearne Texas.

His father worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad for many years before he passed in 1972. His father was William Luther Peyton, born Mar. 19, 1914. His father served during WW ll, enlisting Mar. 6, 1941.

This could have been his fathers gun carried during the war and passed down to the son who inscribed his name on it...
Nailed it!

Bearpa,

You are spot on! There is zero doubt this the same person.
You had no way of knowing it, but this 1911 came from a store in Bryan, Texas, just 20 miles from Hearne.
Also, Mr. Peyton Jr.'s gravestone features his personal signature etched into the granite stone. It is clearly the same signature.
Thank you for your fine detective work!

William Jr. had a younger brother (Clarence) who died in a car vs. truck collision before his 23rd birthday, near College Station, where he was a pre-med honors student at Texas A&M University.
The family line ended with William Jr., as he was unmarried and had no children.

-Bill

P.S. I haven't learned specific information regarding the father's WWII service, but I hope to.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JH1951 View Post
...I am failing to see a serial number which could be problematic - perhaps it is my diminishing eyesight.
All said, I like it. There are very few 1911's I've met that I didn't like.
JH1951,
Here's the SN. The frame is a 1918 vintage Remington UMC.
-Also, a very faint SA arsenal rebuild stamp is visible to the lower right of the serial number.
-Bill

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Old 04-04-2021, 10:50 PM
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That isn't too bad, I have seen worse if it hurts your eyes too much send it to me I will pay shipping of course lol
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:04 AM
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I think it is fine.

Shoot it and love it.

The detective work is icing on the cake. One of these days somebody will probably try to look me up. No telling what they might find, but I haven't signed my name on any guns yet.

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Old 04-05-2021, 08:24 AM
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I would matte nickel it and make it my carry gun.
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:58 PM
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I too have a Remington UMC/ Colt 1911:
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
I have to say that I for one STRONGLY disagree with the notion that one ought to leave a firearm in otherwise poor cosmetic condition for the sake of maintaining its originality as well as it's collector's value.

First of all, it's original finish is already been worn away and there the gun can no longer rightfully be considered "original" to being with as it has been altered by the passage of time.
Furthermore, having it refinished does absolutely NOTHING to diminish the history of the firearm. It's completely absurd to think that having a firearm refinished somehow wipes away its history, where it has been, who carried it, how long it has existed, etc. Refinishing it is simply giving it the proper care that it deserves. Frankly, leaving a government-issued 1911 in poor cosmetic condition because restoring it would take away from its originality is like preventing a veteran soldier from wearing a brand new uniform decorated with service medals and insisting that he wear his tattered old, blood-stained fatigues for the sake of authenticity.
Lastly, not all collectors are honest folks who are willing to pay a fair price for the items they obtain, ergo they often come up with excuses for why an item they wish to add to their collection should cost less so that they don't have to pay as much which sound deceptively tangible. They're just as likely to tell you that a firearm being refinished hurts its value as they are to turn around and tell someone else that their cosmetically worn but otherwise well preserved firearm is worth less due to the amount of wear it has.

Honestly, for all their petty assertions of diminished value, has anyone ever seen anyone asside historians or folks from museums actually collecting/displaying firearms in worn condition? No, because most private collectors want what they display to be cosmetically attractive, ergo when they do buy worn firearms, they always have them cleaned up and restored, with no concern regarding it supposedly diminishing their collectability because they don't plan on selling them anyway, and even if they had to, I guarantee you that they won't practice what they preach and will just invent new excuses for how their restoration doesn't diminish the collectibility at all. It's a scam.

I guarantee you that regardless of what you do, if you ever try to sell that 1911, any private collector will come up with a reason why it isn't worth as much as you are asking for it. Offer it to a single private collector for a dime and he'll try to talk you down to a nickel because of the name inscribed on the slide.
So I say to heck with their dishonesty and greed, you show that old war horse the honor and respect that it deserves by having it refinished, refitted, or even completely restored. You keep it in your family as a treasure to be looked upon with admiration like it deserves, and if having it refinished hurts its value, then that's all the more reason for future generations to hold onto it as a treasured family heirloom rather than give into temptation and pawn it off for some fast cash.
Even if private collectors do legitimately believe that a refinished firearm is worth less and aren't just trying to rip people off, it's still an idiotic, elitist reason to essentially leave a firearm in cosmetically poor condition.

Personally, If I bought a G.I. 1911 that had belonged to soldier who had lost it by dropping it into a latrine during a battle and it had never been cleaned since being recovered and now nobody cleans it because a bunch of loonies consider it being encrusted in filth part of its rich history, I would still clean it, even if it made the gun worthless in the process.
The above is certainly not the last word, and is undoubtedly widely disagreed with. However, it is well argued and certainly worth reading.

Thank you for posting!
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:16 PM
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I’d dig up what history I could on the old man, print a copy to keep with the gun, and enjoy it as is. I would surely be proud to own it in it’s current condition.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:16 AM
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Forte Smitten Wesson Forte Smitten Wesson is offline
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Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!  
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Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
The above is certainly not the last word, and is undoubtedly widely disagreed with. However, it is well argued and certainly worth reading.

Thank you for posting!
No, thank you for reading it with an open mind and for being capable of appreciating an argument, even if it isn't one which you personally 100% agree with. Many folks just want to hear their own opinions echoed back at them and therefore become indignant towards the expression of a differing opinion,complete with personal insults and ad hominem excuses for counter-arguments.

Also, thanks to you liking/quoting my post, I was able to see some typos I had missed at the time it was posted, thus enabling me to go back and correct them before one of the aforementioned sorts inevitably jumped all over it.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:36 AM
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Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly! Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!  
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Default Some History

The original owners grave head stone and that of the signature on the slide.

The photo is of William Luther Peyton Jr. and on his head stone is his signature. Looks exactly like that on the slide.

Thought the history may help.
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Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!-41343224_131849791774-jpg   Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!-78304105_1408470666-jpg   Remington UMC Frame / Colt Slide 1911... Ugly!-78304105_131849807823-jpg  
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