A friend of mine bought a used Moss500, - I might be a Mav88 -I don't remember which. Anyway, it's an 18.5in barrel, pistol grip.

I warned him about pistol grip shotguns and how much they hurt! Well, he bought a new railed fore end and put a vertical fore grip to go with the pistol grip. He also bought a full size stock to switch back and forth.

For my own curiosity, is all of that legal if it was sold as a pistol grip or does that fall into some grey area?

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Thread Killer.

I'm no legal expert, but I believe since the shotgun is not legally a pistol, the vertical foregrip wouldn't be an issue. Adding a vertical foregrip to a handgun is where the problem comes in.

He’s fine. It was never a pistol, it was a firearm. Mossberg sold the 500’s with both pistol grip and shoulder stock included. I’ve got a 12 gauge, and used to own a 20 gauge. So long as the barrel length and overall length are good, he’s good . . .

Edit: In Missouri . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Thanks!!!

I've never bought a pistol gripped shotgun. When I was 18, a local sporting goods store wouldn't sell me one as they were told that pistol gripped shotguns were hand guns. From then on, I thought they were considered handguns and couldn't do those sorts of mods. I didn't know.

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Thread Killer.

The only thing less fun to shoot than a pistol grip 12 gauge shotgun is a Walther .380 ACP PPKS.

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- Change it back -

They were sort of correct. A pistol grip only shotgun is a firearm, only available to those 21 and over.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

It takes practice to learn to shoot a pistol-grip shotgun well. I hold mine up, in the line-of-sight, very steady, right fist away from the face, and SQUEEZE the trigger. Sooner or later it becomes second-nature.


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So very Politically Incorrect

When folks advise against changing the grips on PGO Scatterguns, they're referring mainly to those which aren't defined as Shotguns or Pistols to begin with such as the Serbu Super Shorty, Mossberg 590 Shockwave, Remington TAC-14, etc because they're firearms which occupy some form of loophole in the definitions of a Shotgun by law, so any changes you make can alter their definition to that of an AOW or SBS, both of which are illegal without authorization.

Assuming your friend's Mossberg 500 has an 18"+ barrel, and thus is already considered a "Shotgun" by the ATF, then he doesn't have to worry about swapping out grips effecting the legal status of his firearm.
If changing the grips on any Shotgun could alter it's legal status, then the Mossberg FLEX line of Shotguns with grips made to be quickly/easily swapped out would probably wouldn't be sold to civilians.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

These two answers are the best I’ve seen. There’s a lot of mis-information out there.

State laws vary, so I’ll address federal law as I understand it. A shotgun has to have a minimum barrel length of 18” and a minimum overall length of 26”. As long as those two criteria are met, it doesn’t matter if it has a butt stock, a pistol grip or a spade grip!

Guns like the TAC-14 and Shockwave are an entirely different creature. They basically fell through the legislative cracks. Since they were never built as a shotgun (intended as a shoulder fired arm) and they have an overall length of at least 26”, they’re simply classified as a firearm/gun. They’re not a handgun/pistol, they’re not a shotgun and they’re not a class III item. It’s illegal to take a shotgun and convert it; it has to be built that way by the manufacturer.

SBS’s (Short barreled shotguns) and AOW’s (Any Other Weapons) are class III items. An SBS is a shoulder fired shotgun with a barrel under 18”. The overall length doesn’t matter. AOW’s are guns that are regulated as class III items, but don’t meet other criteria.

Federal law is a hodgepodge of legislation and ATF rulings and they don’t have to make sense, it just is what it is…

In a nut shell, if your friend Mossberg shotgun has a barrel at least 18” long and the overall length of 26 with the pistol grip attached, it’s legal under federal law. That doesn’t mean it’s legal in his State. I hope this makes things clear as mud!

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"I also cook."

I just don't get the "cool factor" of separated pistol grip long guns, including the black plastic rifles. I just don't get it.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

If the mfr built it without a shoulder stock, it’s not a shotgun. Barrel length doesn’t matter but it must be 26” overall.

If it was originally built with a shoulder stock it’s a shotgun, and if you then cut the stock off yourself (making the same identical gun as the first example) it is still a shotgun and you are stuck with the 18” barrel requirement in addition to the 26” overall.

If the mfr makes it without a stock and uses a rifled barrel, <probably> it can be a handgun and be any size. Even if it’s identical <save rifling> to the first two examples.

Consider the possibilities in the Thompson Contender, now that they have both pistol and rifle parts and sell them both ways. Just don’t call it a shotgun!

The only thing he has to worry about is accuracy.

Maybe others can shoot them well but many years ago I picked up Remington 870 Magnum with a pistol grip and couldn't hit squat with it. Ended up getting a different stock and was fine.

Before I started using a handgun for hunting, my deer gun was a Mossberg 500 12 ga. with an after-market stock. It not only had a shoulder stock, but a pistol grip as well. Topped off with a scope and a rifled barrel, it was a tack driver and fun and easy to shoot.

TOTALLY agree. Many moons ago, a much younger me bought a pistol grip for my 870. Thought it had great cool factor until I pulled the trigger.........OUCH! Shot it one more time and took it home, pulled the pistol grip off. Enough of being "cool".

Agreed. The Mossberg Shockwave with the bird’s head grip is much more pointable than an old style pistol grip only . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

There must be a right way and a wrong way to put (or use) pistol grips on a shotgun. Ages ago, I did some shotgun training in the military. We had a collection of mostly Mossbergs and a couple of Remingtons, one of which had a folding stock and a pistol grip. Shooting standard 9-pellet OO buck from the hip, it felt fine (and I don't particularly enjoy recoil). A few years ago, same again with a friend's Remington, and the same result.

Is it because I shot from the hip, with my arm tucked in?

There's definitely a right and wrong way to shoot every firearm, the trick is that sometimes the "right" way isn't obvious and goes completely against what the grip would suggest.

Pistol grips obviously suggest a particular method of shooting, but unfortunately that method is the worst possible way to shoot a Pistol Grip Shotgun, and when it comes to a vertical pistol grip, no matter how you shoot it, it's not going to be pleasant.
Birds head grips like the Raptor grip on the 590 Shockwave help to mitigate felt recoil because it isn't directed straight back into the wrist, and the shape of the grip also makes it easier to shoot accurately because it can be more easily tucked between the bicep and pectoral for increased stability as well as a better sight picture than attempting to shoot from the hip.

Of course, methods don't matter to those who have already made up their minds that Pistol Grip Shotguns are a worthless novelty, especially those who are emotionally driven by the painful memory of shooting one then shrieking femininely when the grip slammed into their palm as if someone hit it with a mallet, so they'll just keep on insisting that there is no better way to shoot them.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Had a few of the pistol grip shotguns at work, hated them. Lousy control, lousy reloading (you've got to feed a shotgun!), just a poor choice all around. They are a good choice in a breacher, though.

I've shot a Serbu Shorty once, that was ok but the hinge on the fore grip bit my hand bad because I choked up too high it. otherwise it wasn't bad. Too much of a novelty and too much of a niche tool. Would be a doable breacher though, as long as you only need 3 rounds...

I like a pistol grip STOCK though. I broke my right (primary) wrist in Middle School and to reload with my support hand as I hold the shotgun on target with my primary hand, the pistol grip stock is easier for me rather than a conventional stock.

Goodness, lots of truth in this here post.

I found I much prefer shooting a Shockwaved birds head 870 to a traditionally stocked 870, due to the nature of the recoil transfer. Then again, I actually have shot pistol gripped shotguns (ouch!), many full stocked 870s (less ouch) and a few Shockwaved 870s (loud but not at all bad). Shockwaves aren’t as good on the trap field, but you can do it with some practice.

I actually aim the Shockwave up in front of my face, like a traditional stocked gun. Works fine for me until I get to three inchers… Be careful on that recoil.

Truthful though it may be, except to see a lot of folks arguing to the contrary, especially the ever-popular argument that because a Shotgun with a stock is easier to shoot accurately, there's no valid reason to ever own one, bonus points if they decide to play Fun Police by arbitrarily proclaiming that they're objectively no fun to shoot.

Pistol Grip Shotguns do one thing extremely well, shred Man-cards, and nothing guarantees that a firearm will be hated than one which kicks hard, is difficult to master, and makes it impossible for wannabe tough guys to fake it.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I’ve had both - a pistol-gripped Ithaca Bearstopper and a Shockwave.

I was driving home from Anderson AFB Guam to my apartment in Maniglao after a swing shift in 1987 when a group of drag racers on the the only road from here to there decided to block traffic so as to not interfere with their hijinks. I was really tired, so I put the Ithaca on the dash and politely asked to be allowed on my way. The guy got on his little walkie-talkie and waved me through.

I left Guam and went to Squadron Officer School en route. I made friends with an El Salvadoran helicopter pilot who was in Alabama taking a break from killing rebels. When the school was over I gave him the Ithaca, which he had taken a shine to. He had driven a Toyota sedan from El Salvador to Birmingham, so we took the door panel off and stashed it in there for the drive back.

He had told me his job was to fly into rebel villages and shoot people with his AK and Browning pistol. Before he wedged that Ithaca in the door he held it lovingly and said: I will kill many communists with this.

I hope he did.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Sorry but that's incorrect. It doesn't have to have a shoulder stock to be a shotgun and barrel length definitely matters. Mossberg sells numerous models with only a pistol grip or both a shoulder stock and a pistol grip and they are all considered shotguns. The Shockwaves are the only models that fall under a different category.

My department had a couple of pistol grip shotguns that I studiously avoided. Anyone who wanted to carry one on the street was required to pass a range qualification first. Very few passed and those who did still preferred the shoulder stock models.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Never was a fan of pistol grip only shotguns. That said, I have one of those Remington Tac-14 12ga buggers with the birds head on it from the factory and I really like it. Handy lil cuss that’s for sure

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R/S
J.D.

Yes , a shotgun- like device DOES have to have a buttstock ( aka " designed to fire from the shoulder " ) to be a shotgun under federal law. Aka kosher under federal law for purchase by 18- 20yo .

Perhaps some confusion , because ATF considers a Combo Pack with both PGO and Buttstock sold as a single SKU to be a Shotgun .

Thanks, people. Finally some positive posts on this type of shotgun; I've read too many 'hates' in the past. If you've been 'around,' (and many of us have), you'll run into situations where a PG shotgun may be almost necessary, as poster sigp220.p45 points out. Just try to maneuver a regular length police shotgun in the front seat of a vehicle...

As to recoil/follow-up shots, there are many 'tactical'/reduced power rounds out there which would do nicely in the close quarters situations these guns are designed for.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103