I need some input on which rifle and which caliber to buy for shooting at distances of 300-600 yards. The 6.5 Creedmore comes to mind and also the .308. I've had Remington BDL (223) varmint rifles that performed very well. I hear Savage makes a good long range rifle too. Of course the rifle would be topped with a quality 3-9x scope. Your opinions please.

What will you be shooting? Targets or game? What size? Also, what's your price range?

These would be my questions too. If larger game animals are part of the menu, I‘d be looking at the .300 Magnums at those distances.

As posted, what do you plan to shoot? 6.5 Creedmoor is great round, but if big game there is the new 6.8 or go with 338 mag.

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!

So many choices out there these days.

My first question would be is this for long range competition or long range hunting?

For hunting my preference would be a .308 Winchester but I admit I am a traditionalist in that respect and my hunting rifle almost forever is a decades old Remington 788 in that caliber. I never hunted long distance, it's not my thing, but that's still the caliber I would choose.

The platform I would choose would also be traditional but not necessarily wood. I have no problem with fiberglass rifle stocks. Any quality, bolt action rifle with a 24" barrel should suffice and the price points vary from a few hundred dollars to much, much more:

Ruger American
Savage Axis
And you can go nuts with Remington 700s and their prices go from a few hundred dollars for average rifles to many hundreds for the so-called "Tactical" model to a couple of thousand dollars for the "M24R Sniper Weapon System".

But I would stick to standard hunting rifles, or maybe something at the level of the "Tactical" rifle, for long range hunting.

For competition, that's different. That M24 I mentioned is in the running, as are all of the "tactical" style bolt guns that like ARs but are not semi-automatic. And there I'd switch to 6.5 Creedmore.

Ruger Precision 6.5 Creedmoor Bolt-Action Rifle
Bergara Premier

As two examples.

But as I write this to answer your question I know someone is recommending the Browning X-Bolt Hunter Long Range, and in 6.5 Creedmore maybe it's good for both hunting and competition - I have no experience in such matters, I just read about the guns and have hunted with standard bolt guns for years. I have not bought a new bolt action rifle in a very long time.

Good luck!

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For Iowa white tails (or larger game) at 600 yards I recommend a 30 caliber cartridge. If you can manage the recoil, a .30/06 has proven itself.

However, if your skill level actually allows you to shoot game at 600 yards, a .300 Win Mag would be my choice.

Savage has many great rifles at affordable prices.

You lost me at thinking a 3x9 works at
300-600 yards.

Just an observation, but the calibers mentioned by the OP and others are not legal for deer hunting in Iowa. Only straight-walled cartridges of .35 caliber or more are legal for deer (and certainly not good for the ranges asked about)..........unless something has recently changed.

Granted the OP hasn't yet stated whether he wants this rifle for hunting out-of-state or just long range shooting. Again just an observation.

Don

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Buy a Jarrett bean field rifle, my 300 J puts 3 shots under .20", 180 grain Nosler @ close to 3K fps.

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Len

for those ranges I shoot a 330 Dakota, its a 600 yard elk gun for sure. Now for paper anything will do.
I guess we have to wait for the OP to tell us what he plans on shooting, paper or game, if game are we talking prairie dogs or elephants.

Well, not being from Iowa, that's a very interesting observation that I would never have thought of.

Do any of the big bore straight wall cartridges perform satisfactorily past 300 yards? Hunting is one thing but are they accurate to 600 yards for competition? I suppose one could hunt Iowa cornfields across 500 yards and longer but it's not my idea of hunting - just a personal observation. YMMV

I checked and the 330 Dakota and 300 Jarrett are not straight walled so they are included in the "not for Iowa hunting" category. Great idea, however!

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Come and take it!!

Ok, I am going to assume range / target use. 300 to 600 yards, both the 6.5cm and the .308 are good choices. I would choose the .308 strictly based on ammo cost and availability. That changes if you reload, with the 6.5cm being a more pleasant round to fire.

I would go with a bolt action. AR's can be accurate, but dollar for dollar, your best chance for a truly accurate rifle is with a bolt. Savage, Remington 700, Tika, Bergara, to mention a few, all make target models that are proven accurate. A Good trigger and an adjustable stock are good options.

For glass, a good 4x16, or 6x24 scope would be a better choice than a 3x9. Leupold, Burris, Vortex all make good glass with lifetime warranty's. A good front rest or bipod, along with rear sandbags are needed as well.

So, what was my answer to your question?


A Bergara chassis rifle in 6.5cm (Under $1000.00), Vortex 4x16 FFP 30mm scope ($325.00), Talley one piece mounts and a Harris bipod. 1 1/4 inch 5 shot groups at 300 meters with cheap S&B factory 140 grain ammo, slightly under 1 inch with my handloads using Serra 140 Matchking's. Lots of bang for the buck.

Larry

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Sounds to me like a problem a good scout rifle in .308 could solve handily . . .

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Funny thing, I was thinking about one semiautomatic that might fit that bill and it's a Springfield M1A. They come in both calibers named by the OP, my preference being .308 (I used to have one), and in a host of configurations for hunting or long range competition. The calibers won't hunt in Iowa, as noted earlier. But a great rifle!

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Come and take it!!

270Win, .308Win, 30-06Sprf, and 270Win Short Mag.

I have these, shoot these, reload these and
like them. All good to 600 yards. In good
times ammo is usually easy to find, just saying.

As for a 600 yard Scope, I would go with something
like 14 power or higher, but I have rarely seen
600yd shots in the corp land here, usually 100-200yds.

As for a Rifle; pick the price range you can afford.

The best to you and your endeavors.

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There are people that can and do hunt ethically out past three hundred yards. But not many of them. And by the phrasing of your initial question I do not think that you are in this group of very skilled hunters.
So if target shooting is your aim. You do not have to necessarily go with a thirty caliber rifle. You can do quite well even utilizing .22 centerfire rounds with the right rifle and ammo. 243 Winchester is certainly worth taking a look at. I have an Accuracy International in that round that I do pretty well with out to 1,000 yards.

And certainly if you are looking to go out to six hundred yards you will want more than a 3X9 scope. I would want at least 12X magnification to go out that far and depending on what I am shooting at, likely more.

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My oops! It would be for target shooting at my private range. I lean toward the .308 and Remington M24.
Thank you for your replys, was very helpful!

When I did this I ended up with a Savage 110 in .270win with a
Leupold 3.5x10 VARI-X III shooting Sierra 140gr Game Changers.

I chose the .270 cause it's common as dirt and is Elk capable to
600yds easily. The .308 should do you good.

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never get out of the boat

Nothing wrong with the M24 but a little more scope may prove its value.

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Good shooting.

.300 Win Mag all day. It can always be loaded down to 308 levels if desired.

Back to the thread drift of a straight wall cartridge over 300 yards. 45-70, 45-90, & 45-110 plus 50-90 (the bigger 50's are not needed in North or South America!)

Type of rifle to accurately shoot these rounds? Sharp's or 1885 are the two most common actions still made. Can be scoped or Long Range Venire sights. Winchester and Browning 1885's are drilled for modern scope bases and rings! Montana Vintage Arms iron sights are good enough that Tom Selleck actually made the "Bucket" shot in Quigley Down Under!

For Ammo both Sharp's and 1885's can use Black Powder or smokeless ammo, but avoid jacketed projectiles.

Ivan

The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target round to punch paper and make steel ring. great choice for long distance shooting, very poor choice for long distance hunting of big game. Also that 3x9 for work at 600, no way. If doing hunting, min of one of the 4.5-14 scopes and if target work, go with one of those with more power that the 14x. My favorite round for long distance hunting is the 280 AI. great down range preformance on game at that distance. If you are looking to punch paper or ring steel at that range, the 6 Creedmoore is a better selection. You did not state your budget range on a rifle. If I was going with an out of the box "regular" rifle, I would go with the Winchester model 70, the old control round feed and the guns today are top notch.

Weatherby MK-V in 257 Weatherby Magnum

Remington 700 in 222 Remington Magnum

Works for me!!!!

SANY0003.jpg

My M1A1

SANY0005.jpg

Got a case or two of match, plus 4 or 5 tins of mil surp left

SANY0004.jpg

And to see where I'm going at night, I think I have around 300 or so tracers left.


WuzzFuzz

There ain’t a round of either of those calibers available for purchase within 200 miles of here . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't know if Winchester rifles are as good as they were years ago.
I had a pre 64 Winchester model 70 with a 4 power Weaver scope on
it, and I never missed anything I shot at. Back in the 1950s there were
a lot of 1903 Springfields on the surplus market. My Dad bought one
and put a Bishop stock on it, and gave it to me when I returned from
service in the Air Force. I couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with
it, so I traded it on the Winchester 30:06. If they are as good now as
they were then, they can't be beat.

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In Omnia Paratus

If I were to assemble a rifle for 300-600 yard shooting I would go with a 6.5-06 Ackley. Dies are not overly expensive, a good chamber reamer is fairly available and you have the advantage of the 6.5 flight ballistics. You can push a 142 gr bullet about 600 fps faster than a Creedmore. That is only important in that in minimizes sight adjustments. We have shot 30-06 with 220 gr cast bullets @2000 fps on 500 yard targets, it just takes a lot of hold over.

IMO, look to build one rather than buy one.

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Front sight and squeeze

I have done a fair amount of 300-600 yard shooting, for Prairie Dogs out West. Remington 700 VS, Heavy Barrel. In 22-250, with load chronographed at 3560 FPS with a 55 gr Nosler BT. But I have used either a 5-18X Leupold or a 6.5-20 Nikon Monarch. Nothing less than 12 or 14X at those distances unless you have very young eye's.

It will all depend on what you plan to shoot with it to determine the caliber.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I think others agree that your optics should be priced equal to your rifle, or close to it. Having a bargain basement scope at 100 yards might be OK but when you stretch those shots to way out there you'll need quality.
It's worth it and will add enjoyment. All you got to ask your self then is
"How did I mess that shot up"

I am a Remington 700 guy, but for best value out of the box the guys who shoot on my range like the Savage bolts with the Accutrigger. For target shooting out to 600 either the .308 or 6.5 Creed will do fine in a good rifle with the right ammo..

Beyond 700 the 6.5 will out perform the .308. I once got to shoot my plain jane HB 700 in .308 out to 1000. I was very happy with it's performance. My buddy was shooting a custom 6.5 Creed. My rifle shot right with his out to 700. There is not a lot of difference in our marksmanship. Beyond 700 his groups were smaller and his adjustments for windage and elevation were less.

When that rifle went up for sale I bit the bullet and paid the money. I've only got 460 yards here at home, but when I get a chance to shoot longer I'm ready.

Any good bolt action rifle in 30-06, .308 or 6.5X55 MM would do the job for your endeavors. The 30-06 or .308 would be easy to find ammo for most anywhere. The 6.5X55 MM has been a military round dating from the 1890's. The Swedes use to use the 6.5X55 MM for civilian target shooting and their matches started at 300 meters with iron sights. In the Corps we were trained to hit targets at 200, 300, and 500 yards with iron sights. My first time qualifying was with the M-14 in 7.62X51 (.308). I use a Swedish CG 63 in 6.5X55 MM for target shooting now, but only at 200 yards as that is the furthest our local range has.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I'm guessing you're paper punching, so I'd give up on the 3-9X scope. Get something that goes up to 12x or 14x minimum and an adjustable objective is must have for accurate target shooting.

The 6.5 Creedmore would work for sure, but I'm set in my ways and still like the 308.

Everybody has their favorite brands, but I've never really got that accruacy out of Savage rifles that we read so much about. My pick of the affordable rifles would be either a Tikka or a Weatherby Vanguard.

A .270 will drop a fair bit less than .308 at those ranges so while it's not necessarily more accurate, it's easier to make hits if you misjudge the range or conditions a bit.

Shot competition long range back in the 80’s. Tried the all from 17 Remington, 220 swift, 308, 30-06, 22-50. Settled on the 25-06. The 120 grain grand slam was the most accurate at the time for me. Usually shot 400 yds. Needed to be able to cover 3 shots with a quarter to win the competition. Used a 24 power scope at the time. You could watch your heart beat in the scope.

What's your budget ?

My two rifles are the no longer produced, Savage 10 BAS & 110 BA in 308 and 338 Lapua. For a competition/target rifle both of these have more recoil than the 6 & 6.5 mm rounds! They are magazine fed, so the action has more flex than a true single shot.

Looking at the distances involved my 308 does 1/10 MOA and the 338 does 1/4 MOA groups.

At 300 Yards: 308 3/10".......338 3/4"
At 400 Yards: 308 3/8" ........338 1"
At 500 yards: 308 7/16".......338 1 1/4"
At 600 Yards: 308 9/16".......338 1 1/2"

These are all pretty typical of my better days and it can and will go downhill from there!

But a person with a good single shot Like a Savage 12 (1 in 8 twist) in 6mm Bench Rest (Norma) using 106 grain Lapua factory ammo will beat these all day long! And the paper target won't care about the recoil and energy differences!

I also have a Savage 12 (Single Shot, Right Hand Bolt, Left Hand Eject) 26" heavy barreled 223 Rem. With non-standard length hand loads it will do 3" at 1000 (3 shot groups) when it is stocked for BR and 5" with the hunting stock. My personal best with this gun was 7 consecutive M&M's @ 200 yards! I have a 8-25 40mm AO Veri-X III scope on it. This is not bad, but won't win in the big leagues!

Ivan


ETA: The scopes I use for these rifles and distances are big, heavy and expensive! The 308 has a almost 20 year old Nightforce 8-32x 56mm BenchRest model (1/8 MOA clicks). The 338LM has a Nightforce NXF 5.5-22x56mm side focus (1/8 MOA clicks). Both have reticles that are broken into 1 or 2 MOA areas. This allows better "Spotting and Corrections."

When I was buying scopes The difference in 50mm objective lens and 56mm objective lens is about 8 to 10% in cost, and 17% in light gathering ability! If some targets are in the trees, it makes a world of difference!

At the longer distances 1/4 MOA or 1/10 MIL clicks are too course, but out to 600 yards they should work OK.

You want very fine crosshairs. Most Dot scopes, the dot is too big even at 500 yards.

Of course, everything depends on target size. At 600 yards a ground hog is 1 MOA fat by 2 MOA long, a human torso is 2.5x 5 MOA's, and a pack of cigarettes is smaller than .3 x .4 MOA's (and we often shoot that size target at 500 yards!)

Ivan

I will second that Savage can build a good rifle. The target is only at 100 yards and was shot with a Savage M11 with a Nikon 3X9 and is in .223. If I was going to use it at further ranges would put on a 24X or 36X Leupold on it. Bought it used for $350 with the scope.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

If OP returns:

.300 Winchester Magnum

Or

7mm Remington Magnum

Scope no less than 15X, with 20X being preferable, the problem being, that if you go for too high of a magnification mirage becomes an issue.

FOR 300-600 YDS on game I would use and have both a 300WM and a 338WM. You must have a good ballistic coefficient and that starts with a long bullet, on game you need some energy and that means some bullet weight.
Velocity helps but only to a degree. You need to stay super sonic because bad things can happen when bullet goes from duper sonic to subsonic. But after that it is about bullet drop. Even a bullet in the 3000fps muzzle velocity has a bunch of drop for each 100yds past 300. A 3000fps 7mm mag 162 gr BTHP with a ballistic coefficient of .725 zeroed at 400 yds is going to be 13.2" low at 500 . A 168 gr BTHP BC of .550 at 3300fps, a gain of 300fps is going to be 11.5" low at 500 with a 400yd zero so add a good range finder to the cost of rifle and scope and don't forget a bunch of burned up ammo dialing it all in at various ranges.

A 308 can do it yes. The range finder becomes even more critical when you drop that 168BTHP to 2700fps as the 400zero-500strike is now 17.7". Even a 50 yd range miscalculation means around 9" even with perfect hold and perfect accuracy.

You must know you rifle and loads ballistics and you must know the range when you go out past about 350yds even with the fire breathing magnums.


I have heard statements like I am getting a 300 mag so I can make that long shot, my 300 mag shoots flat to 500 yds. bla bla bla. Usually from guys that sight in at 100yds and don't fire 20 rounds a year. I hate those guys out banging away at game.

Lots of good advise here which means lots of options. First off, for 600 yards you need more scope. I recommend a 6-24X class. If your hunting game the 6.5 Creedmoor is to light at 600 and I've got one. I'd recommend Hornady's big brother to the Creedmoor, the 6.5 PRC. Now here's where I'll catch some flack from the 30 cal. guys, the 6.5 cal. is better than the 30 cal. But, full disclosure, I'm 6.5 bias.

I built my budget 6.5 Creedmoor chassis gun with a Savage action, happy with it. Use, punching paper and whitetail 400 Yards max.

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A while back I decided I needed to reach out.
300 yards for sure, probably not a full 600.
It’s a 223.
I know! It’s Ugly!

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We(Iowans) have a very restrictive list of rifle calibers we are lawfully allowed to hunt deer with. I don't think the op is wanting to hunt (here in Iowa, at least) with this gun, just wanting something for long range target shooting.
That being said; I bought a Savage 110T in 6mm Creedmore for the purposes of long range target shooting/varmint shooting/medium western states game. This gun has totally surpassed any expectations I had for it. It shoots easily any bullet weight from 75grn to 108grn into 5/8" at 100yards with a couple of my loads going into less than half inch. I have done absolutely nothing to this gun but take it out of the box, clean it, and mount an optic. One of the best, if not THE best shooting factory gun I have ever owned.

The 6.5 is a great caliber and I have a nice 6.5 Creedmoor setup using a model 600 action, a model 700 bull barrel all fit in a Boyd's laminate Thumbhole with a 6x18 scope.

But, it is hard to beat a 190 gr, bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .610 at 3100fps from a 300 wm, At 500yds it is moving at 2333fps an has 2297ftlb

a 168 leaves at 3200fps and at 500 is still going 2340fps and has 2043ftlb

A hot 6.5 140gr leaving at 3200fps is going 2154fps at 500 and has 1443 ftlb .

The bigger heavier bullets will gain in remaining velocity and energy as the distance increases

I think the 50BMG proves this point beyond any doubt.

But, for hunting your range estimation abilities as well as your shooting abilities are far more important past 300 yds than which caliber.

This is my 6.5X55 MM rifle. The action was made in 1902 and it was rebarreled by the Swedish government in 1966. It is an Swedish CG 63 no scope only iron sights.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

My rig (and I have taken game with 1 shot kills at 450+ yards several times) is a Howa .300 Win Mag with 180 gr Nosler Federal Premium ammo. Used for everything from ground squirrels to 6x7 elk. I also have a 338 Win Mag Weatherby Vanguard (also a Howa action) that has taken elk and mule deer, using 210 Nosler (same basic trajectory as 180 gr .300 mag).

My 300 has a B & C synthetic that absorbs some of the recoil and the Weatherby has a KDF.

Scope on each is a Leupold 3x9. remember, higher magnification doesn't make you shoot better; just see better!

Plan on spending at least as much on a good scope as on your rifle.

Regarding bull barrels: You will carry your rifle more than you will shoot it, if hunting!

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM A while back I decided I needed to reach out. 300 yards for sure, probably not a full 600. It’s a 223. I know! It’s Ugly!

Not ugly if it shoots to POA.

This one is ugly. Mossberg (Howa) 1500, .223, Boyds Thumbhole stock, 24oz trigger, Tasco 4-16X scope and only shoots to 1.5 ma, but that might be my old and tired eyes.

AJ: "This is my 6.5X55 MM rifle. The action was made in 1902 and it was rebarreled by the Swedish government in 1966. It is a Swedish CG 63, no scope only iron sights."

6.5X55 was the caliber to beat in bench rest for many many years. Hard to beat that long skinny bullet.

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Remember that variable scopes let in less light at higher powers. I try to use a fixed power scope for all my shooting for the most part.

At least as much if not more money is well spent on the scope than the rifle. Can't hit anything if you can't see it.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

When I bought my Savage 110 BA in 338LM, my wife made the comment to a friend standing there that the cost of the accessories was always greater than the rifle. Case in point: I got a great price on the Savage 110BA, $1700 OTD! The Nightforce scope was $2250+tax. Benchrest die set is over $325. Brass (empty, new) is $2.25. It uses 94 grains of Retumbo or 104 grains of US 869. I got a deal on 500 packs of 300 grain Matckking and Berger Hybrid and don't remember the price. The bipod I use is $225+tax, Spare mags are $110. You get the idea!

Before my first shot I had spent just less than $6000. Was it worth it? It is to me! 10 years ago this October 5, I had a stroke. I had rehabbed and recovered enough that on MLK day a group of us went shooting! I was doing well at 500 yards, so I went for the Cigarette pack sized target. It was soggy out and the target had been pounded pretty heavily. I fired, then couldn't find the target. My 338 Lapua Mag pulled the target, stand, and concrete footing out of the ground and threw it 15 yards up the hill! I can hit it with just about any caliber gun. but the big boys do it with authority! I have an almost identical 308, It runs far less on ammo and is phenomenally accurate! But I do enjoy the 338 LM!

Ivan

Please excuse the non-informed question but I have been away from rifles for a very long time and note that the 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be the current rage. What can it do that a .270 Win or .264 Win or .257 Weatherby cannot do?

My late grandfather hunted all over the U.S. He told me once: "if you can't do it with a .308 Winchester rifle, then you can't do it at all."

Indeed, I can take heavy game with my .308 bolt-action with 165-grain bullets: Buy Fusion Rifle for USD 38.99 | Federal Ammunition


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