Old School .22 Target Rifles

tt66 · #1 09-06-2021, 04:30 PM

Old School .22 Target Rifles, what's not to love ?

I like US marked guns and the .22 trainer guns make a great place to start a collection. My first was a Kimber 82G. I still have it and it is a great shooter. A Remington 513T Matchmaster that was a Letterkenny rebuild came along next. Then I found a H&R Model 12 that was set up with a 15x Unertl. I had always thought the Unertls were neat but I had never seen one in person. Once I got to reading about them, the fascination grew. I added a 16x Unertl to the 513T and then that led to a super nice Remington Model 37 Rangemaster, from 1947. It was set up with a 15x Unertl as well. The Model 37 is the only one not US stamped.

A little range time today, bench set up at 25yds. I only shot out of a box of SK Rifle Match. I have some Eley and Wolf Target as well to try. The Remington loved the SK, the H&R was ok with it. Best thing about range time with these is that they are so quiet. Our little range is in the pasture about 100 yds from the house and the wife and dogs never heard anything.

Group Pic is first. Remington 513T on top, Model 37 middle and H&R Model 12 on bottom. Next pic is the Remington Model 37 on the bench and its 3 shot group at 25. Last 2 are of the H&R Model 12 and a couple of 3 shots groups. The Remington Model 37 may be the most consistant gun I have shot, and it sure it pretty :-)

diyj98 · #2 09-06-2021, 05:20 PM

Here's a old photo of my U.S. trainers. Each one is a different model. I had a few duplicates, but only wanted a photo featuring one of each model.

Krogen · #3 09-06-2021, 05:34 PM

Be still my heart! The first post made me gasp. And THEN the feller from West Virginia posted another one. The noise you heard was me falling out of my chair.

Wonderful rifles.

vonn · #4 09-06-2021, 05:43 PM

Small wonder they are hard to find! Hoarders! Very nice looking shooters.

tt66 · #5 09-06-2021, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diyj98

Here's a old photo of my U.S. trainers. Each one is a different model.

Wow ! That is some collection !

tt66 · #6 09-06-2021, 06:16 PM

This is a pic of a nearly forgotten Mossburg Model 44US and the Kimber 82G.
Iron sights are cool too !

Baltimoreed11754 · #7 09-06-2021, 06:43 PM

Very nice collections. I only have 2, a 1922 M2 Springfield from the late 1930s and a Model 52 PreA slow lock from 1925. The Winchester is my favorite. Sweet 22s.

AJ · #8 09-06-2021, 06:47 PM

Nice shooting. Try stretching them out to 50 yards. The Model 12 and the Model 37 should do very well at that range. The 513T may struggle a bit.

SS336 · #9 09-06-2021, 06:57 PM

Great rifles gentlemen! A .22 target rifle is just about the best thing there is. I have had a few, but never had more than one at a time.
My first, a Anschutz M54 with a 10x Lyman Tatgetspot, I used shooting 4 position in the early ‘70’s

My favorite was a Walther KKMS I had in the mid 80’s. Most accurate .22 rifle I ever owned.

growr · #10 09-06-2021, 07:05 PM

Wait until you find a 52 C/D/E Winchester.......they shot well with most any standard velocity ammo and REALLY shined with the premium grade like Eley, RWS, Lapua, the old Winchester MK3/4 and Remington 6600 match etc.

Randy

AJ · #11 09-06-2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by growr

Wait until you find a 52 C/D/E Winchester.......they shot well with most any standard velocity ammo and REALLY shined with the premium grade like Eley, RWS, Lapua, the old Winchester MK3/4 and Remington 6600 match etc.

Randy

In my gun safe are a Winchester 52D & 52E, both have 25X Lyman SuperTargetSpots on them, a Remington USMC 40X with a 20X Lyman SuperTargetSpot, Suhl 150-1 with a 36X Leupold and a Remington 513T U.S. Issue with iron sights (yes, it is military marked). I am working with a H&R Model 65 that belonged to the Corps as a trainer. Trying to find what it likes for ammo.

Best ammo for the big rifles is Eley Black Box.

Golddollar · #12 09-06-2021, 07:21 PM

This is pushing me to get the 1922 Springfield and Remington 513T out of the safe and play with them.

AJ · #13 09-06-2021, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltimoreed11754

Very nice collections. I only have 2, a 1922 M2 Springfield from the late 1930s and a Model 52 PreA slow lock from 1925. The Winchester is my favorite. Sweet 22s.

Had a Pre-A Slow Lock years ago (S/N:3141). that is what got me started in all of this.

Baltimoreed11754 · #14 09-06-2021, 08:21 PM

The Springfield was bought after I handled a friends Griffin and Howe gorgeous M2 sporter. What a beauty. A year or so went by and I found the PreA. I don’t poke holes in paper but prefer to ring steel offhand at about 65 yds. As far as I can get from my deck.

Jebus35745 · #15 09-06-2021, 08:34 PM

Nice guns here especially the OP with the long scopes, sweet. Now I wanna play. Have a Mossberg 146 with a “T” handle and shoots pretty nice and Mossberg 46M.

Want to shoot sub 1/4” groups at 50 yds and bought an Anschutz/Savage model 54 sporter and recently “stumbled” on an Al Freeland super target .22 rifle (number 11 of 21 made) and added the Lyman super target spot 15x scope. Nice guns AJ. Larry

AJ · #16 09-06-2021, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus35745

Nice guns here especially the OP with the long scopes, sweet. Now I wanna play. Have a Mossberg 146 with a “T” handle and shoots pretty nice and Mossberg 46M.

Want to shoot sub 1/4” groups at 50 yds and bought an Anschutz/Savage model 54 sporter and recently “stumbled” on an Al Freeland super target .22 rifle (number 11 of 21 made) and added the Lyman super target spot 15x scope. Nice guns AJ. Larry

Thanks Larry,

If you ever get down this way let me know. We will get some range time in at the local range. Bring the Freeland along, I'd like to try it.
AJ

Baltimoreed11754 · #17 09-06-2021, 09:01 PM

But can you shoot them offhand? Used to get into serious ‘discussions’ with a good shooting bud who wanted to only shoot propped while my theory was once you’re sighted in stand and shoot. Of course we were using a couple of old school Remingtons, his Speedmaster and my Fieldmaster, hardly the category of what we are discussing here. But all .22s are fun.

Dr.Tramp · #18 09-06-2021, 09:27 PM

When my father croaked I ended up with his training and competition 22 rifles. He was an NRA firearms safety and shooting instructor and competed and coached small bore rifle.
His training rifles were a Mossberg 144LSB and a Remington M540XR and his personal rifle was a Anschutz Match 1907. The Mossberg was fitted with Anschutz competition sights and the Remington and the Anschutz had Leupold Gold Ring Bench Competition scopes with bench shooter micro adjustment turrets.
I don't shoot at competition level so I sold them and their custom cases to a guy in Missouri that also teaches NRA firearms safety and shooting classes and trains his local 4H club youth shooters which is where my father would have wanted them to go to. I even tossed in 200 rounds of Eley Tenex match ammo so he could sight them in properly.
The guy said he had a girl that was ready to step up to the Anschutz. I haven't heard from him since the Covid hit his area and family but am hoping they're okay and to one day get a picture of the kids and the rifles.
My father and several of his shooters competed at the Camp Perry Invitationals a couple of times. One of his girl shooters ended up with an appointment to Annapolis because she impressed the Master Gunny that ran the Navy and Marine team at Camp Perry (Not an easy feat) and another girl qualified as a sniper in the Army and then became a precision shooter for the Phoenix SWAT team.
You wouldn't want either of them drawing a bead on you. :-)
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp..........

AJ · #19 09-06-2021, 09:29 PM

All the rifles can be shot offhand. The big question is how well can you shoot them offhand? Forty years ago pretty good. Nowadays no offhand for this old fart. Shoot benchrest now.

Fishinfool · #20 09-06-2021, 10:01 PM

What ever happened to the blue steel and walnut .22's? Most of the modern stuff might shoot well, but they leave me cold.

My old Mossberg shown below is a very accurate rifle, with a trigger that always brings a smile.

Larry

Old School .22 Target Rifles-tab_6783-copy-jpg

Old School .22 Target Rifles-tab_6783-copy-jpg

AJ · #21 09-06-2021, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishinfool

What ever happened to the blue steel and walnut .22's? Most of the modern stuff might shoot well, but they leave me cold.

My old Mossberg shown below is a very accurate rifle, with a trigger that always brings a smile.

Larry

Old School .22 Target Rifles-tab_6783-copy-jpg

I started with a Mossberg Model 44 US(c). Great rifle. When I started shooting at 50 yards from the bench I realized I needed something a bit bigger. Got into the big Winchester, Remingtons and Anschutz's.

Fishinfool · #22 09-06-2021, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

I started with a Mossberg Model 44 US(c). Great rifle. When I started shooting at 50 yards from the bench I realized I needed something a bit bigger. Got into the big Winchester, Remingtons and Anschutz's.

Without pulling it out to look, I believe it is a model 144 - Not sure if it came before or after the 44.

When I first picked it up, I was going to cut the barrel, thin the stock, drill it for a scope, make it a "squirrel special", but decided it was too nice a rifle to mess with. Glad I didn't.

Larry

Llance · #23 09-06-2021, 10:26 PM

There is something very satisfying in seeing and shooting a firearm which puts holes in the x-ring time, after time, after time. Perfect scores with 10 X's. I have a few of the Mossbergs which qualify as Target rifles but dang-it-all-to 'ell I can no longer shoot to their potential and it frustrates me no end. But the bright side is I still enjoy shooting them. I also have an old Savage of 1922 that drills acorns with it's "iron" sights, when I do my part, so I guess I shouldn't be too hard on myself.

CB3 · #24 09-07-2021, 12:26 AM

These are beautiful guns and collections with some great back stories. Thanks all. Brings back memories.

I shot the NRA Junior Marksmanship Program when at summer camp from 1960-63. We always shot singles even if the gun was a repeater. This required regaining NPOA (natural point of aim) for each shot after working the bolt and hand inserting the next round. As well, each of the 10 bulls required a slightly different orientation for perfect alignment.

We first used little Remington trainers with open sights, and once we proved ourselves we moved up to Winchester Model 52’s with peep sights. In all positions we used a standard one-point military arm sling.

With the Winchesters shooting 10 rounds, all centered, I and a few other boys (ages 11-14) could make one hole that was about .28 in diameter at 50’, prone. I could do almost as well from a low cross-legged sitting position, all shots breaking the .22” center ring. We moved on to kneeling and then standing, but those Winchesters were sure heavy for a 12-y/o standing.

In competition we had a center target we could use as a sighter or to warm up a cold bore. After that, each of 10 targets around the perimeter got one round each so they could be scored accurately. 98, 99 and perfect 100’s were common from prone. Standing was usually around 90 for the winner.

Our coach was a (former) Marine, so we learned to shoot military style. We cleaned the range guns and the range (no personal guns). Shot standard velocity Remington ammo. I shot Expert early in the summer I turned 13.

I still have the Mossberg 144LS my dad bought me when I left summer camp. Great rifle, but it never quite equaled the consistency of those Winchester 52’s at summer camp.

About 20 years ago I discovered the Appleseed marksmanship program, which at the time was primarily military .30 cal. training. I fit right in and became an adjunct instructor for a few years. I shot “Rifleman” on my first outing with a FAL, primarily because of my training at summer camp. We switched to .22’s for easier training at a lower cost about 15 years ago. Never saw any of these wonderful target rifles at an Appleseed shoot.

One last thing—having worked for Barnes Bullets/Ammunition where we constantly tested accuracy of bullets and ammunition for QC—I take all groups <10 rounds with a grain of salt. Real accuracy of the shooter, the equipment and the ammo need 10 rounds to be significant. It is surprising to see what happens to a neat 3-shot cloverleaf when seven more rounds are added. For the shooter who can deliver all 10 in a little over a quarter inch, the 10 individual bulls with one shot each become a much better “talking target”.

Baltimoreed11754 · #25 09-07-2021, 08:47 AM

Came across some photos in my searchings. Thinking they would be more fun than the chess club. Found another photo, those Drexel gals look rough.

AJ · #26 09-07-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB3

These are beautiful guns and collections with some great back stories. Thanks all. Brings back memories.

I shot the NRA Junior Marksmanship Program when at summer camp from 1960-63. We always shot singles even if the gun was a repeater. This required regaining NPOA (natural point of aim) for each shot after working the bolt and hand inserting the next round. As well, each of the 10 bulls required a slightly different orientation for perfect alignment.

We first used little Remington trainers with open sights, and once we proved ourselves we moved up to Winchester Model 52’s with peep sights. In all positions we used a standard one-point military arm sling.

With the Winchesters shooting 10 rounds, all centered, I and a few other boys (ages 11-14) could make one hole that was about .28 in diameter at 50’, prone. I could do almost as well from a low cross-legged sitting position, all shots breaking the .22” center ring. We moved on to kneeling and then standing, but those Winchesters were sure heavy for a 12-y/o standing.

In competition we had a center target we could use as a sighter or to warm up a cold bore. After that, each of 10 targets around the perimeter got one round each so they could be scored accurately. 98, 99 and perfect 100’s were common from prone. Standing was usually around 90 for the winner.

Our coach was a (former) Marine, so we learned to shoot military style. We cleaned the range guns and the range (no personal guns). Shot standard velocity Remington ammo. I shot Expert early in the summer I turned 13.

I still have the Mossberg 144LS my dad bought me when I left summer camp. Great rifle, but it never quite equaled the consistency of those Winchester 52’s at summer camp.

About 20 years ago I discovered the Appleseed marksmanship program, which at the time was primarily military .30 cal. training. I fit right in and became an adjunct instructor for a few years. I shot “Rifleman” on my first outing with a FAL, primarily because of my training at summer camp. We switched to .22’s for easier training at a lower cost about 15 years ago. Never saw any of these wonderful target rifles at an Appleseed shoot.

One last thing—having worked for Barnes Bullets/Ammunition where we constantly tested accuracy of bullets and ammunition for QC—I take all groups <10 rounds with a grain of salt. Real accuracy of the shooter, the equipment and the ammo need 10 rounds to be significant. It is surprising to see what happens to a neat 3-shot cloverleaf when seven more rounds are added. For the shooter who can deliver all 10 in a little over a quarter inch, the 10 individual bulls with one shot each become a much better “talking target”.

A long time ago I had a pamphlet on target shooting. In it, it discussed rifles. There were two distinct categories. The first was called Tier 1 and had the Winchester 52's and Remington 37's there. The second was Tier 2 and listed there was Winchester 75's, Remington 513's, and the Mossberg target rifles.

Almost all the target rifles are very good at 50 feet and 25 yards. The big rifles really shine at 50 yards and beyond.

AJ

old tanker · #27 09-07-2021, 12:35 PM

It was a Mossberg 44US (d) that was my first, in all respects. It was paid for with paper route money. I still have it.

beagleye · #28 09-07-2021, 03:28 PM

I have a BRNO Model 3 that fills this category for me. I can shoot low .3s at fifty with its favorite ammo, when things are going well.

BRNO model 3s and 4s are well made but not common.

tndrfttom · #29 09-07-2021, 04:50 PM

The Marlin 2000 appeared on the December 1991 cover of the American Rifleman. It was billed as an affordable, entry rifle for “Summer Biathlon” backed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. While there are supposed to be one or two variations I don’t think they 2000s were in production for more than 10 years.

AJ · #30 09-07-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tndrfttom

The Marlin 2000 appeared on the December 1991 cover of the American Rifleman. It was billed as an affordable, entry rifle for “Summer Biathlon” backed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. While there are supposed to be one or two variations I don’t think they 2000s were in production for more than 10 years.

Been shooting rimfire benchrest for quite a while (almost 20 years). Don't think I ever saw a Marlin 2000 in real life. Only in pictures.

AJ

Jebus35745 · #31 09-07-2021, 07:24 PM

How did the Marlin shoot?? I remember the Marlin Squirrel rifle, it looked accurate. Supposedly used one of their better barrels on it. Actually most of the cheaper .22 rifles of yesteryear shot great for what they were.

AJ, I would love to meet up with you cause we share a lot of the same guns and shooting ideas. Larry

tndrfttom · #32 09-07-2021, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus35745

How did the Marlin shoot?? I remember the Marlin Squirrel rifle, it looked accurate. Supposedly used one of their better barrels on it. Actually most of the cheaper .22 rifles of yesteryear shot great for what they were.

AJ, I would love to meet up with you cause we share a lot of the same guns and shooting ideas. Larry

The Marlin shoots good - I kept a target but, unfortunately, I can't locate it right now. The write-up in the Rifleman (back when the Dope Bag did detailed technical reports) had an accuracy table for 5 consecutive 10 shot groups at 50 yards:
CCI Green Tag 0.92 in. (average)
Eley Club 1.01 in. (avg.)
PMC Match 0.71 in. (avg.)

Trigger pull was given as 2 lbs. List price was $543.75.

StrawHat · #33 09-08-2021, 07:05 AM

I have a Springfield Model 1922 with the barrel date 7/22 and a corresponding low serial number. I just went through all my photos and not one to be found! Yikes! I need to drag it out and get some shots of it.

Technically, it doesn’t fit in this category as it was converted to a single shot 22 Hornet but it is still a neat rifle.

Kevin

SS336 · #34 09-08-2021, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

I have a Springfield Model 1922 with the barrel date 7/22 and a corresponding low serial number. I just went through all my photos and not one to be found! Yikes! I need to drag it out and get some shots of it.

Technically, it doesn’t fit in this category as it was converted to a single shot 22 Hornet but it is still a neat rifle.

Kevin

I, for one, would like to see your Hornet.
A favorite cartridge of mine. That’s a classic rifle and was rechambered to the small varmint cartridges back in the day.
Heck, start a new thread about small rodent cartridges in Firearms and Other Brands. 👍

jimbo728 · #35 09-08-2021, 08:39 AM

I have the 513T. just replaced the stock with a nice military walnut one from Numrich on;y 28$. Redfield peep and globe.
Prints great at 50yds when I do my part. It is super quiet.
Jim

Ivan the Butcher · #36 09-08-2021, 09:04 AM

I had a mid 60's Anschutz 54 in a prone stock. I would shoot at fun targets at 200 yards (on very calm days). I know 5 shot groups don't count, but it stayed around 1/2"! I used Eley Club and Club Extra (has EPS bullet)

I also had the Kimber Government Model (82-G).

I used B&L 3200 in 16x and 20x on them, along with Leupold 24x and 36x.

About 2014, while between jobs I sold the 82G, the 54 prone, a Pattern 1917 Winchester, an Anschutz 54 in 22 Hornet (Bull Stainless barrel 1/5), the 2 B&L 3200's. I got enough money to pay for my last 2 semesters of college, pay off my credit card, and have walk around money for 6 months! I'll never be able to own guns like those again, but it sure was nice while it lasted!

I still have a Weatherby Mark XXII that is a Anschutz 54 with a Weatherby stock and a Anschutz 2000 target. With Eley Club or Team ammo, they usually keep me out of trouble!

Ivan

forindooruseonly · #37 09-08-2021, 09:19 AM

Here are couple that haven't been mentioned but were great rifles for competition in their prime - BSA Internationals. I love the Martini action and even though I am nowhere near as good with an international rifle as I used to be, I still enjoy taking these out occasionally. The scoped rifle is a Mk I and the one with iron sights is a Mk II.

old tanker · #38 09-08-2021, 10:02 AM

Serendipity! This little BSA Martini came up for sale nearby a few months ago. I met the very spry 90 year old rifle shooter who decided he preferred his Winchester Model 52 and the BSA was surplus to his needs. Seeing what he could do at 50 yards with the BSA, the Winchester must be special indeed.

The serial number is 53901.

Thanks to the excellent site ( rifleman.org.uk )I learned a few things.

It is equipped with A.G.P. Model 2 tunnel fore-sight. It is certainly pre war.

The barrel is marked: "Superior Nickel Steel" and it was relined by the Phoenix Rifle Repair Co - Birmingham, at some point before coming to the US.

It came with a Litschert 20X scope. Internet research tells me that this was a well-regarded scope made in the late 1940s through the mid 1950s

AJ · #39 09-08-2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

I had a mid 60's Anschutz 54 in a prone stock. I would shoot at fun targets at 200 yards (on very calm days). I know 5 shot groups don't count, but it stayed around 1/2"! I used Eley Club and Club Extra (has EPS bullet)

Who says 5 shot groups do not count? On Rim Fire Central they have on line .22 matches. The 50 Yard Iron Sight Match is shot on an A23/5 target. There is a spotter target and four targets that are scored. The match is 20 shots, 5 per target. So a perfect score would be 200-20X. Most good shooters turn in 1/4" or less groups.

AJ · #40 09-08-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forindooruseonly

Here are couple that haven't been mentioned but were great rifles for competition in their prime - BSA Internationals. I love the Martini action and even though I am nowhere near as good with an international rifle as I used to be, I still enjoy taking these out occasionally. The scoped rifle is a Mk I and the one with iron sights is a Mk II.

Martini's are a hoot! Have had a several Martini's (12/15's, Mk II, Mk III and MK IV). If I didn't like Winchester 52's so much, I would still have the Martini's!

AJ

Buick · #41 09-08-2021, 10:32 AM

Any love for the Stevens 416? Mine is well used but still remarkably accurate.

AJ · #42 09-08-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buick

Any love for the Stevens 416? Mine is well used but still remarkably accurate.

Good rifles. A friend has two, one is the normal .22 LR. The other someone rechambered to .22 magnum. Both shot well.

Ivan the Butcher · #43 09-08-2021, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

Who says 5 shot groups do not count?.

That was a jab! I think one shot groups count, when you use live targets, eg. groundhogs!

I could never consistently hit M&M's at 200 with the 54, but my record is 7 straight with my Savage Target 223!

Ivan

AJ · #44 09-08-2021, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

That was a jab! I think one shot groups count, when you use live targets, eg. groundhogs!

I could never consistently hit M&M's at 200 with the 54, but my record is 7 straight with my Savage Target 223!

Ivan

Have seen 200 yard .22LR matches. A 5 inch group there is good. I too, have a Savage M11 in .223 and have shot one hole groups at 100 yards with it.

AJ

Llance · #45 09-08-2021, 11:21 AM

It is amazing how many good, even great .22 rifles there are on the market or have been produced. Even run of the mill Savages and Winchesters and Remingtons, I have a Savage m-6a Semi-auto that shoots better than I can (or ever could) according to some of my "friends". I laugh it off because I know it shoots better then he can any day of the week.

InTheWoods · #46 09-08-2021, 12:29 PM

One of my favorites. The butt stock of the NRA stock was slightly but tastefully modified generations ago. It wears an 8x Lyman Junior Target Spot. It still shoots great. Groups shown are 5-shot groups at 50 yards.

wbraswell · #47 09-08-2021, 12:55 PM

A great thread. I love old .22 target rifles. The only one I have is a U.S. marked Remington 40-XB that I put a Tasco 10-40X on, and I love it.

BAM-BAM · #48 09-08-2021, 01:02 PM

Thread brings back memories of 8 years on High School and College Rifle Teams...... one WPIAL Championship and a Second in State ..... lost State by one point shooting at Penn State.

Winchester 52s...... then an Anschutz (?) in College

Ivan the Butcher · #49 09-08-2021, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Thread brings back memories of 8 years on High School and College Rifle Teams...... one WPIAL Championship and a Second in State ..... lost State by one point shooting at Penn State.

Winchester 52s...... then an Anschutz (?) in College

What year?

Champion Shooter Supply (used to be in New Albany, Ohio is now outside Utica, Ohio) would take on trade H.S. team rifles. Karl Joss and his son Perry, both shot on the OSU teams. Karl had been an original AMU member. Until a serious injury a couple of years ago, Karl was a serious Dewer team shooter. All my good target 22's came from Champion along with all my good ammo!

Ivan

BAM-BAM · #50 09-08-2021, 04:50 PM

WPIAL AAAA and State in 1971