A thread I just read was talking about Damascus barrels on a 19th Century-made shotgun and it got me thinking. (Bad idea!) I have a .410 pump with no serial numbers, so I suppose it was made before I think 1968? I read on here something about shooting older shotguns with steel shot is bad for the inside of a gun's barrel. I would think it would have to be older than what I have to matter but I don't know. It says Noble on it. Someone on here told me what company made it and for what dept. or hardware store. It's written down on some notes I have down my cellar someplace in the gun department. I bought 2 boxes (2 3/4" and 3" shells) but I haven't had the chance to shoot it. Now I don't know if I should try to find some lead shot or what. I don't hunt anymore but I'd like to see how it works as far as going bang. It cycles the shells just fine. I found it and a couple other guns a while back in my dad's things. He probably gave some poor soul some drinking money for them (3 guns total) and stuffed them in the old long gun case I found in his closet. I know they weren't around back when I lived there. Does steel shot really mess up a barrel that bad and how old, about, would it have to be to cause a problem?

Edit: I believe the gun was made by Noble, but it's marked Western Field.

How is the gun choked?

If you're worried lead .410 loads should be relatively easy to find.

Avoid steel shot in that shotgun. It was made before steel shot became mandatory for waterfowl in the 1970's. It may score the barrel, and damage the choke, which is usually "full" on most .410's, as these earlier guns usually didn't have barrel steel designed for steel shot. Lead shot is much softer than steel shot, and will compress when going thru a choke, steel will not, and can cause bulging at the end of the barrel, and damage to the choke. Being as hard as it is, it can also score the inside of the barrel.

Larry

I’m not sure whether it would harm the barrels but I wouldn’t chance it for the price of a box of shells.
Steel shot is a relatively new thing and came along long after your gun was made.
I believe the ones that are ok to use steel shot are marked so.
It’s your gun…

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“Look life in its iron face”

I normally wouldn't shoot steel shot in an older gun like that. There's a good chance of scratching up the barrel. The Noble guns were fairly low cost and not very collectible, so if it's a beater it wouldn't bother me to shoot a box or two through it.

The shot is contained within a cup, as it travels down the barrel; so, scoring shouldn't be an issue. The steel not being compressible is the problem. If the barrel is choked modified or anything more open, you'll be OK. if a full choke, you run the risk of bulging it, as already mentioned.

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George

The majority of .410 loads you find should be lead shot. Very few .410's would be used for waterfowl where the steel requirement is. Steel shot would be the exception rather than the rule in most stores.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I thank you guys for the help. I bought these shells last year, I think, during this ammo depression. They're made in Italy, but that really doesn't matter. H Richard, you're correct about the shells I bought. They are lead. I had to cut one open to be sure, as the brass end is magnetic and the shot is lead. I cut one open to be sure. (Mainly because I like to do this kind of stuff...cut it apart to see what's inside and how it works, you know, like the 14 year old kid that I AM!!!) The shells are Italian made, and nowhere on either box says lead or steel. The other .410 is a double barrel that also accepts 3" shells. It has Crescent Arms on one side of it. Another cheap gun that may get the barrels cut down for tight home security use. 18 1/2", right?
At least now I can shoot the brass from the shell I cut off to see if it will at least ignite the primer. I might as well do two more for the double barrel.
I'm gonna have to learn how to tell how a shotgun is choked.

I wouldn't use a .410 for duck-hunting, that's for sure! Heck, my Browning Light Twelve barely gets the job done (2 3/4" 12 gauge).
But some trap and skeet clubs are requiring "non-toxic" shot. I can see where someone might want to use steel in a .410, especially for a smaller shooter, or even just for fun.

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George

Steel shot is required for hunting all migratory game birds, Federal lands and some States (California being one!) Don't cut the barrels! It is worth more than a cheap SxS 12 or 20!

Your Cresent shotgun is very if it isn't it is pushing 100 years old. Your pump is most likely from the 50's or 60's. I have had several cheap 410 pumps, they often have feeding problems with 3" shells, so it is best to stick with the 2 1/2 inch shells.

3" 410's are normally 1155 feet per second. 13/16 ounce of lead shot.

2 1/2" shells are normally 1200 fps and AA Super Sports are 1300 fps. 1/2 ounce of lead shot.

In daily use the 2 1/2 shells are used the same as larger shells. The 3" shells aer enough slower the you need 20 to 50% greater leads. In Principle the 2 1/2 shot pattern is a ball the overtakes the target. The 3" shot pattern is a long string, and is like casting a net in front of the target which intersects the shot.

I don't compete for health reasons, but still shoot "Hunter Class" at Sporting Clay matches. With either length 410 I usually beat 25 to 30% of the other shooters in the 12 gauge main events! It isn't the gun or ammo, it IS the shooter (my 410 scores match my 12 gauge scores from when I was younger!)

Ivan

Wow, lots of info. Thanks a lot to all of you.
Jeff T.

The Cresent SxS in 410 if in shootable condition will bring some decent money. Most any 410 SxS shotgun does.
Don't cut it down.
..and it's likely a 2 1/2" chamber

The Noble should say on the bbl what chamber length and likely the choke.
Probably 3" chamber and Full choke.
Seems like Full choke was the go-to choke for most every economy 410 made in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

A simple caliper check of the ID of the muzzle of the bbl can give you a good idea of what the choke is.
Compare the reading to the chart. Being aware that choke dimensions are not exact and vary by mfg'r and even bbl to bbl.

https://royalarms.com/wp-content/upl...-Tube-size.pdf


>>

If you do get some steel shot loads,,the latest wads used will protect the bore from scoring and damage.
But don't fire steel loads in a bore chokes anything tighter than Improved Cylinder (IMO).
..Some suggest Modified as the tightest choke...their choice..

The tight choke restriction can bulge or crack the muzzle of the bbl when using steel loads.

I use 12ga 3/4" 1 1/8 oz #3 steel all the time out of my SBEII and they do the job nicely. Before I got the SBE I used them in my A5 Light Twelve with no problem. I have been going with a 1 oz load of #3 steel in a 3" 20 simply because I like shooting my 20 ga Benelli. Have not had any issues for the past 40 or so years. I will buy 2 3/4 over 3 simply because I can use either in my 12 gauges (the Browning only takes 2 3/4" shells).
Quite frankly, I would like to find a good condition A5 Magnum 20 just for giggles (also because the shotgun I shoot best with is my old A5).
I know an old cajun who has probably shot more ducks over his lifetime than anyone on this board and all he ever used was a 20-first in lead and then when steel was mandated he bought a cheap over under in 3" 20 gauge. He also could probably outshoot anyone on this board as well-at least he could out shoot pretty much anyone we hunted with.

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Forum consigliere

Shotguns made before 1980 should not shoot steel pellets.........

The old shotguns only needed the very soft paper or pastic wads for lead pellets.

The hard steel pellets need a special very hard plastic wad to help prevent barrel damage
in the new wepons of today and they still receive some damage, even with the steel wads.

Plus the old "Twisted barrels" were made for the low pressures of black powder, when they were first made.
If you try smokeless powder, make very sure that weapon is up to the higher pressures, even with the lead shotgun loads..........
if they were made for them !!

If there was no danger from shooting steel, I would be surprised. By that measure, ALL shotguns are capable of shooting steel shot which I'm not sure of.

Good posts and advice. In the past I read steel should not be used in a Full choked barrel but Mod. or Imp.Cyl. were OK. Not sure if the cup in the newest steel shotshells has improved enough to make a difference in older guns. The newer barrels of today are built for them.

Noble shotguns were made here in Western MA, in Haydenville. Some of their receivers were made of aluminum alloy, which made for a light gun, easy to carry all day. The other side of that coin is the recoil was memorable. I fired one once, at a press event at the factory.
Like many small firearm manufacturers in the region, Noble fell on hard times and ceased operations in the early 70s.
An interesting side note is that Smith and Wesson purchased the rights to one shotgun model and marketed it as the S&W 916, to mixed results. Here's a short history:
TINCANBANDIT's Gunsmithing: Firearm Factory of the Month: Noble Manufacturing Company