I have been into this hobby pretty much my entire life and have always felt this way. It is always tempting to save money, time, effort and the sometimes the long hunt for vintage model firearms in great condition. It is sometimes the easy way or cheaper way out to buy a reproduction, copy, clone or what ever you want to call it rather than to seek out a vintage, genuine good condition and usually a more expensive gun of your desire.

When I first started out "acquiring", I had less of a budget to spend and so the hunt was a bit more challenging. Even so, I always opted for the Real McCoy, one at a time vs multiple cheaper guns and what made that particular brand, model and caliber famous and desirable in the first place! Remember - the hunt is half the fun!

Some may think I am a jerk for doing this but for 20 years I shot SASS Matches with a pair of genuine Colt SAA's with Ivory grips. Most others would use Umberti's, Ruger's, EAA's etc. with synthetic grips - I felt good/proud about using the real deal!

Whenever I buy a pistol I will only buy the original version. I own genuine original Colt SAA's, M1903's and 1908's, 1911's, original S&W's of all different models, original Brownings, Winchester's, Remington's, etc. Yes they do cost more and they are harder to find in excellent condition but I find owning the real deal is more satisfying, rewarding and will always bring more upon resale or trade.

Obviously there are many who disagree with my opinions and that is fine and I understand. Again, I'd personally rather have one genuine WWll Colt, US&S, Singer, Remington Rand, etc. 1911 that was a genuine GI pistol than half a dozen modern clones - no matter how good the reviews are. At the end of the day the clones won't be worth much as they are just copies - and the big bucks will always be given for the real deals.

For those on limited budgets I'd still say quality over quantity and when you finally find your gun that you have been looking for, spend your hard earned money and make that purchase, it will be so so rewarding and something you can always be proud of. You will always remember the hunt and at least IMO will always be more dear than a copy, clone or reproduction.

Do what makes you feel good - but this is just something I have been wanting to post for a while. It is not my intention to sound snobby, elitist or condescending - when I started out I was pretty much at ground zero!

I would like to think this will inspire at least a few to see things in this light. I can honestly say there are MANY that have much larger collections than I do, however I am truly proud of each and every piece I own.

In a way it is like my 30 year hunt for a birth year revolver
1951 38 M& P


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Wheel guns are real guns too.

Agree 100%

Hard to argue the OP.

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Sure you did

I'm pretty new at this game and the opinions of the OP are exactly how I've been playing it. I try to find the best possible examples of the models I'm looking for and purchase the best I can afford. I also don't have a huge collection, but the one's that I have the privilege to own I am very proud of. After all isn't that the whole reason we all love this hobby?

Understandable. My Python has a good bit of wear, but it was only 1500.00 instead of 2500.00....and I wanted something I could shoot rather than just fondle.....same for my Diamondback, SAA, 25-5, 27-2, etc. Some are near perfect, but just enough wear that shooting them doesn't worry me.

I know guys who, if you gave them $1000 to go spend on firearms, would come back with 10 guns...

I’ve been that way since a kid. In 60s it was a lot easier to kick old guns out of the woodwork. Off individuals, not “ find” at a show. I keep telling young guys if it’s at a show it’s not lost, so you can’t find it. Internet has put the binders on honest finds. Even worse there is no CONDITION button on them smart phones.
I buy no repros or remakes. If truth is know a lot of the remakes are actually contracted repros.

The joy is in the quest.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

You make some pretty compelling points. You only failed on one front...You didn't post any pictures!

I agree with you chief - and the same theory applies to vintage holsters.

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In Omnia Paratus

Some might say that any 1911 made after 1927 is not an original "1911", but rather a "1911a1".
There are some fundamental differences in the feel, finish, fitting and specifications. (Most "Original" 1911s also typically shoot much better than most WWII issued 1911a1.) And, of course, there's the fact that most of those "genuine" WWII Colts, Remington Rands, etc. encountered today are reworks and arsenal refurbished. Do they count as "original"? (ie: the overpriced mixmasters offered by CMP!!)
There was a match called "Classic Service Pistol" that ran at the UK annual matches at Bisley. This was held until fairly recently.
It stipulated that the only allowable pistols were bonafide service pistols that were identical to those in use up to Armistice Day (Nov. 11, 1918), with no alterations permitted. You would see Lugers, .455s, 1917s, etc and, of course, 1911s.
A true "1911" (which was made until 1927) was fine, but a "1911a1" was not allowed.
Is a Series 80 Colt "1911" more (or less!) "genuine" than a Springfield Armory 1911, even though the latter is much closer to the original John Browning design? Does the word "Colt" rollmarked on the slide outweigh the gratuitous alterations made to appease their legal/liability advisors?

I mean this with a certain sense of humor, that there's always another level with which one can split hairs.
Or, put another way, maybe one man's "Real McCoy" is another man's "knock-off"? ....

PS: About those "genuine Colt SAA" revolvers you used for Cowboy shoots: Those were, of course, First Generation black powder frame Colts, right?

I would rather have half a collection of originals than twice the collection of off brands. I know some cannot afford S&W, Colt, etc but that is not what this thread is about. Kinda like driving a new car off the lot… once you leave the gun store with an off brand your value drops in half.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Agreed. I’m not a 1911 Series 80 or 90 fan and actually prefer an actual 1911A1 or Series 70 clone to the latter Colts.

Similarly, I prefer a nicely polished and blued civilian FEG P9 or first generation P9M “Hi power” to a expoy painted MK III Hi Power.



I certainly prefer the FEG to the current Hi Power which looks like the product of inbreeding with a 509.

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It’s fine, but ironic in my opinion that the OP felt proud about using original SAAs in SASS competition. I’ve always felt that SASS had its priorities badly misplaced.

They put a great deal of emphasis on period correct or B movie correct dress, but then allow a power factor floor of only 60, along with a minimum velocity of just 400 fps. So on the one hand they want to create a unique period correct environment, but then let them shoot mouse fart loads that no self respective cowboy would have serious considered using.

Given that I grew up on an actual ranch riding fence and moving cattle with actual horses , I had to give SASS a hard pass as I’ve always prioritized substance over appearance.

I have more than my fair share of collectible original firearms such as but not limited to:

- Four Pre-64 and pre WWII Winchester rifles and carbines;
- Three Winchester 9422s, including an XTR, a Trapper and a Legacy;
- Three correct (arsenal refurbished) M1 Carbines;
- a correct (arsenal refurbished) M1 Garand;
- a Beretta BM-59;
- Three original 1970s and 80s era Colt AR-15s (SP1 etc);
- A dozen or so 1940-1980 S&W revolvers all in very good to excellent condition;
- Two S&W Model 39-2 pistols;
- A 1918 DWM P.08 Luger;
- A 1943 P.38;
- a British L66A1;
- Two Austrian police Walther PP pistols,
- A No 5 Mk I Jungle Carbine;
- An original FN Hi Power;
- A Winchester Model 52A, a Springfield Model 1922M2, a Stevens 416T and a Remington 513T;
- An 1890 Winchester in .22 LR; and
- a pair of early production Hi Standard Victor 107 pistols.

Then I also have some very nice firearms that might be regarded as knockoffs, like a pair of Winchester branded, Miroku made Model 52 Reissue sporters from the 1980s that while not original Winchester Model 52 Sporters are none the less arguably the best volume production .22 LR sporters ever made.

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But then I have a number of clones and knock offs like my nicely finished civilian FEG P9 and 1st Gen P9M, and a pair of Ranger made Walther PPK/S pistols (that are an order of magnitude better an the S&W copy), FEG AP9S, APK9S, AP7S and APK7S pistols, and a number of Kimber 1911s in match, full size, commander and officer frame sizes in both .45 ACP and 9mm.

I also have a few clones such as a 1859 and 1874 Sharps and an 1885 Winchester that are none the less very nicely made and excellent functioning firearms, as well as some newer post 63 Winchester lever actions.

One of the key considerations with these clones and knock off firearms is that I don’t have to worry about shooting and wearing out a valuable original. I also don’t have to worry about things like embrittlement in 50 plus year old fire control parts.

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What matters isn’t so much whether a firearm is an “original”, but rather whether the firearm is a “quality” firearm.