Just bought an Enfield Jungle Carbine at an auction. Think it may be broken. With no rounds & no mag in it, to move the bolt all the way forward, I have to pull the trigger back. With the bolt all the forward, there is no tension on the trigger. Nothing happens when its pulled again. Seems to me that the firing pin ought to do something at that point. It seems like its not cocking. Any ideas what's going on? Thanx in advance for any help.

That would be a No 5, if it's organic and not some modified No 1. I don't know what the problem is with this rifle but if you go on Gunboards forum and scroll down to British, you'll get serious collector/gunsmiths to comment on it. Possibly something simple

Closing the bolt cocks the trigger.
There is tension closing the bolt.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

Give enfield-rifles.com a try. Lots of great knowledge there.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

The sear spring is likely missing/broken.
It's a U shaped spring that also powers the magazine release/latch.
#42 in the schematic

Lee-Enfield No. 5 'Jungle Carbine:' An Exploded View | An Official Journal Of The NRA

If there is no tension on the Magazine latch, then it is definetly the Sear spring.

The sear itself can be jammed in the down/fired position as well. Then the trigger will just slop back and forth if the sear spring is also missing. The trigger should have tension is the sear spring in this case is OK,,but the sear is jammed in the fired position.

Make sure the bolt head is screw all the way into the bolt body. It will screw all the way in and then a partial turn +.
Back it up that partial turn to line up the bolt head w/ the bolt body rail and then insert the bolt assembly back into the rifle.

Safety Asembled and inserted correctly? It's a multi start thread assembly. It will go together/start several ways but only one is correct. If it's assembled incorrectly and placed in the rifle it can block the sear and cocking piece even when the safety arm appears to be in the Fire position.

Just some thoughts.

Hope ya get it goin. Heard those Jungle No.5 rifles are bringing some good money with collectors these days. Like the build quality of those old milsurps.

I have in the distant past owned two .303 Enfields, neither being a #5. I remember that at the time they were common milsurps, they had a reputation for poor accuracy. I don’t have any idea how difficult it is to find replacement parts if needed, but I suspect that they should be available.

Problem solved. Just wasn't pushing the bolt forward hard enough. Quit pushing when encountered resistance. Apparently that's what cocks it. Pushing forward without depressing trigger works.

Was just going to post that Enfields are cock on closing. Wondered if that was the issue. Nice grab. If it still has the original narrow rubber butt pad on it I would recommend a PAST recoil pad for the shoulder when you shoot it. Those particular butt stocks seem to focus the recoil and really pound you good.

SARCO often has parts and reproduction things for the old Enfields. I sourced a new original barrel for my 1915 MIII, to replace my shot out barrel. SF VET

Quite possibly the worst kicking firearm I've ever shot.

Parts for #1s and #4s are pretty easy to find. Numrich was a good source in the past. Haven't looked there lately.

Specific #5 parts may be harder since there weren't that many made and not too many survived.

My #1 and #5 shoot pretty good - certainly better than MY accuracy. But have a Long Branch #4 that appeared unfired when I got it and it is simply a tack driver, even with 0.308 bullets.

Navy Arms produced quite a number of "Pseudo" No 5's by cutting down the barrel and stock fore-end. If the distance from the front sling pivot backwards to the beginning of the barrel is ~8 inches then it is genuine if 10 plus inches it is a phony. In addition only Fazackerly and BSA made No 5s. Dave_n

In Canada, Long Branch, made No5's into the mid 50's.

Ivan

The cock on closing action of the Enfield is disliked by many shooters who are proficient with Mauser 98 and Springfield ‘03-type actions that cock on opening. However, British soldiers were well-trained in rapid manipulation of the Enfield, and they could unleash a hail of bullets very quickly, allegedly as fast as using a semi-auto rifle. Look up the “Mad Minute.”

As far as I know, any Canadian No5 rifles "seen" are vaporware, most being created by bored people with Photoshop.

Canada did produce No4 rifles into the early 1950s. I have one, made in 1950.

The UK produced No4 rifles with dates as late as 1955 for sure, with some odd later date rifles the provenance of which is a mystery.

Britain gave Pakistan a complete No4 Mk2 production line and they turned out about 60k rifle between '61 and '63 IIRC. About 1100 of those made it to the US, most via the Indian Army judging by the extra property marks.

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Release the Kraken

Yes, it is often said that the conical flash hider and narrow hard rubber insert were a bad joke on the soldiers committed by the drawing office.

Another hard kicking milsurp is the Mosin Nagant carbine that comes in several forms, M38, M44, M91/38, M91/59, and the Type 53 (a M44 really) from China.

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Release the Kraken

I just shot a #5 today at the range. A 1946 Faz mfg in quite nice condition. No FTR ever done to it. Very accurate even at 100m. Yes they do kick.

It shot right to POA with some of my reloads from a couple yrs back. Loaded with 180gr bullets and a starting load of a powder I don't remember.
The reloads I made up the nite before were using 123gr AK bullets of .310d and 12gr of RedDot.
Those shot 1 1/2ft high at 50m in the Jungle Carbine.

Those same light loads with the AK bullets shot to POA @ 50m with the sights set at 100yds in a CLLE (Charger Loading Lee Enfield) also brought out for Range Day.
100yds is the lowest rear sight setting.
I was surprised at that targeting.
A bit of windage adj was needed but thanks to remarkably fine adj rear sight on the Long Lee , that was a quick simple task.

The rifle is a BSA mfg for the commercial market. So no date on it.
But made sometime betw 1907 when the SMLE solid one piece Charger Bridge came upon the scene, and 1914 when BSA stopped offering the CLLE (aka Territorial Rifle) as a Commercial rifle to the public in their catalog.

Next week I may try the same light load in a commercial early SMLE,,a MkI*. This is the early SMLE with the sliding charger guide on the bolt head. A design used before the common one piece charger guide. Only used 1904 thru 1906.
The one piece guide came to be in 1907,, what was the MkIII designation.

Not a #5, but a former member here now deceased was talking to me about a black bear that came at him when he and his wife were dressing out some game. Bruce said "I don't know how fast I was firing, but I did happen to notice I had five pieces of brass in the air at the same time".

A former Canadian soldier, he was very familiar with the "mad minute".

That gun is capable of a very fast rate of fire for a bolt gun if you can afford to practice and feed it in todays' market.

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Front sight and squeeze

I have one of those Navy Arms modified to jungle carbine configuration but mine is chambered in .308 Nato which kicks even worse than the .303 .

Btw another way to spot an original No#5 is by its buttplate, the jungle carbines I have seen all had some sort of hard rubber "pad" smaller than the metal plate attached, always seemed to me this would make kick feel worse.

Pss the other iconic rifle that cocks on closing is the Eddystone P-17, P-14 series.

Well it is know as a Enfield.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I believe all of the pre-M98 Mausers cocked on closing. The P-14 was originally designed by the British as an improvement over the SMLE, but it was pretty much abandoned for British service when hostilities began in 1914. The Enfield 1917 was basically the P-14 modified for US issue by rebarreling for the .30-‘06 cartridge. Many believed it to be a superior battle rifle vs. the Springfield ‘03. The sights were also much superior.

That allowed it to hold 1 more cartridge than the .303 rifles allowed!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I own a few of each, the P17 is definitely not an Enfield,
The P17 bolt actually resembles the Mauser bolt more especially the extractor...
perhaps if an Mauser K98 married an SMLE and they had a baby.....

On a side note IMO the P17 has a better rear site and longer site radius than Remington 1903 and 03A3 and the SMLE, The Enfield #4 flip up rear site is a nice unit but the P17 is a superior rifle chambered in the superior 30-06 round

The 1914 Enfield is an 'Enfield' in name was it was developed/designed by the Brit War Dept in the Enfield Arsenal.
The orig design was the pattern 1913 Enfield and was for the 276 caliber cartridge.
That ever got made in any number as WW1 came around fast.
The redesign resulted in the Pattern 1914 Enfield in 303.
Vickers was supposed to be the original production mfg'r picked by the Brit Gov't but couldn't take up the contract as war-time needs already filled their time.
The Brits turned to still neutral USA to make the P14.
Rem, Win and Eddystone were the contractors.
We made them at those plants untill the USA entered the War in 1917.
At that time the USA stopped making the P14.
The rifle design was slightly changed to take the US 30-06 cartridge and supply a second battle rifle for our troops going 'over there'.

The new rifle was called the US Model 1917 Rifle.
Common language use gave it the name of the 1917, P17,
or just '17 Enfield.

Enfield from it's roots in the original Brit design is a correct assuption.
Purists Collector fanantics cringe when anyone calls them anything but a US Model 1917 Rifle .

But most everyone knows what you are talking about when '17 Enfield is said in conversation.
It's one of those to be listed with clip/magazine,,bullet/cartridge.
Doesn't bother me but it does some and I can understand that.

I think I agree. My No5 hurt.

In case no one said so wear ear plugs and ear muffs when you do touch that thing off. That megaphone attached to the end of the barrel make the report off the charts...

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Randy

One good thing about the P14 and M1917 being based on the P13 is that the action is stupid strong. IIRC the Remington Model 30 used the same receiver without the ears.

The drawback to that is that the P14 and M1917 actions are not that slick and the rifles overall are heavier than their contemporaries. I have a very slick Enfield No1 MkIII* and the P14 is ponderous to operate by comparison. My well worn 1903A3 is as good as many No1s and No4s, and definitely much nicer than the M1917.

As for neutral USA in WWI, rifles for France and Russia were also produced here. The Mosin Nagants were washed through a contract with some shadow company in England, hence the stocks were stamped "English Order" in Russian. No giveaway there.

IIRC, more M1917 rifles were produced for the US army during WWI than Springfield 1903s.

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Release the Kraken

About 2.2 million 1917s were made during the war, vs. about 300,000 Springfields. but the USA entered WWI with around 600,000 Springfields already in service. Even so, there were around twice the number of 1917s in American service than Springfield ‘03s during the war.

Exactly. Enfields are not Mausers. My first thought after reading the initial problem was “cock on close”. .303 British is an underrated round. It was good enough for a lot of African game for a long time.

Tucked away in the back of my safe are three Enfields: A 1942 No. 1 Mk. III Lithgow, a 1955 No. 4 Mk I Fazakerley, and a No. 4 Mk. I converted to a No. 5 Jungle Carbine by Miltech.

Like many other British machines, there is an elegance to the look and feel of Enfields, and they're beautifully made. The action is smooth, they're very ergonomic, and they shoot well.

No argument there. That conical flash hider and that little, narrow buttplate magnify the recoil and drive the Jungle Carbine hard into the shooter. Any trip to the range with mine ends with a nice bruise on my right shoulder...

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Where Law Ends, Tyranny Begins

I have 4 of the talked about guns in this thread, nothing special just what your ordinary grunt would be issued. Their buried in the back of the safe so I did not get specific info from them.
Let sleeping rifles sleep!

A 1917, a Remington Springfield 03, a SMLE and a Mosin Nagant carbine.

Of all I enjoy using the 1917 the most, I have no problem with cock on close. For a fact the MN does kick a bit and has a roar like my MIL had.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I had a 1943 Longbranch No 4, Mk1and a “carbine” modded No 4, Mk1. Both kicked HARD. The No 4, Mk1 “carbine” harder still. Whoever worked on the modded “carbine” No 4 did a good job. Looked just like a standard No 4 but about 6” shorter. Lots of fun to shoot for the first 20 or so rounds. Then just painful. Sold them both….. sorry I did……

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"Your other right........."

The Remington Mod 30 is the same rifle Remington was making as the US Model 1917.
After WW1 ended, Remington saw a way to use the existing tooling, parts and knowledge in the Illion factory to convert the Military to a good sporter.
The belley in the magazine was straighted out so the sporters are a 5 shot instead of 6rd cap.
The 'ears' are gone from the rear ring and the bolt release is lengthend to the rear of the actin edge, reshaped and other small changes in styling.
The dog leg bolt handle stayed as well as the perfectly good side safety.

The earliest models were lacking in a decent stock design. But the Express models later are more of the classic American stock style and are
beautiful rifles and great shooters, Heavy I will admit.
Some great chamberings like 257 Roberts , 7mm Mauser. Classic 30-06.
Some great oldies 30, 32, 35 and 25 Remington. The latter often found rechambered to 257Roberts.
Lyman 48 , Redfield or Marble-Goss aperture rear. Your choice upon order.

I found a 30L Express (Lyman 48) in 30-06 at a show just before the c19 thing. Excellent condition begging for a buyer at $300.
I asked to look at it and was immedietely given a price of $250 OTD.
A beautiful rifle.

Remington later made the Model 720 based on the same action when the Mod 30 was closed out in '39 or '40.
The 720 was only made for 2 yrs.

I'll add my offering to hard recoiling Milsurps as the Austrian M95 straight pull carbines in 8x56R cal.
They were sure cheap at around $65 FFl price in the $90's.
The orig card boxes of 1937/38 mfg German ammo,,2 5rd packet clips per box were $1.50 each.

The heavy 215 gr (?) bullets out of the little carbine with it's less than ergonomic pleasurable stock design was quite a thrill!

Fun at the time for sure. All gone now except for a few rds of ammo.

I once had an Austrian 95, never fired it as no ammo was available. It required that the ammo had to be in clips, sort of like the M1. Some 95s were rechambered to 8x57, I wouldn’t want to fire those. I don’t remember what happened to mine, I probably sold or traded it off many years ago.

Swedish Mausers, one of the best bolt action military rifles ever, cock on closing.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I bought one of the Yugoslavian M95M straight pull rifles at a show maybe 15yrs ago. Probably more.
That's when I was in to the Austrian Straight Pull rifles.

These were conversions of the Austrian 8x56R that used the packet loading enbloc style system to a 5rd staggered mag using loose rounds. It could be loaded with Mauser stripper clips as well.
Cal 8x57 Mauser.
The heart of the system was a sheet metal magazine 'box' that took the place of the Mannlicher style single lever follower. Very unique and it worked well.
The M95M conversions rifles are often missing their unique extractor that was fashioned for the conversions. One thing to check if buying.

I shot it a some with likely the worst available ammo for testing such a rifle...Turkish 8mm Mauser surplus mfg 1941.
But hey that was cheap too at $5 /per bandolier of 70rds!
What could be better.
Many of the case necks split upon firing. But it wasn't the Yugo rifles fault. The ammo did the same in a CZ Mauser 98.
It all went bang though.
Another heavy hitter gone somewhere. I think I sold it on an on-line auction.
Still have a good supply of that smokin' Turk ammo though!

I did buy one of those magazine conversion inserts for the M95M Yugo rifle at one time. No one knew what it was in a junk box of parts at a show. $2 bought it.
On-line IIRC it brought $75 at the time.

I may have pics and dimensions of that magazine box somewhere thinking I might make some. But that never happened.

I bought over five hundred rounds of the cheap Turk 8mm ammo, just a bit too hot for me to use in my Hakim. I pulled all of the bullets, saved all the powder, and reloaded them by dropping the charge by 5 grains using the original powder. Far more comfortable to shoot and I didn’t worry about the Hakim coming apart. No problems with case neck splits or anything like that. I remember when the Turk M98s were selling for around $70, but all of them I saw had been ridden hard and put away wet.

I also reformed some of that Turk brass to 7x57, and loaded it with 7mm bullets for use in my Spanish Mausers.

I think even the nice ones were put away wet. I bought one with a lovely bore and overall condition that shot patterns. Removing the action revealed that with the rear action screws tight and the barrel bands removed, the barrel sat over an inch high of the wood at the muzzle end. Oops.

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Release the Kraken

I have a very nice No. 5 and have killed several deer with it. I have never found the recoil that objectionable. I handliad 180 gr RN bullets for mine. I had a scope on it for a while in a no-drill mount that worked quite well; made by B-square IIRC. I have shot 1.25" 100 yard groups with it with hunting loads. I like these old rifles.

Recoil is subjective, but I agree that I never found a No. 5 to be uncomfortable to shoot. I often read people saying how the M44 Mosins kick terribly, but never found them bad at all.