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  #1  
Old 06-25-2009, 10:54 AM
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Default H&R .44 Caliber double barrel shotgun

A friend has such a shotgun and wants to know more about it and value. Does anyone know where I can find out about these. Apparently it shoots a .410 shotgun shell and has a 3 digit serial number. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:50 PM
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I don't know much about them, but I think they are called the Model 404. Does it look like this?






There is a little information here:

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/675...apth2086/m1/1/

Looks like a neat gun, but I have no idea as to value.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:22 PM
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Thanks for your help. I have never seen the gun, just a description. I sent the photo forward for verification.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:43 PM
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Hi:
In a past era .410 Shotguns were marked "410 ga or .44 Cal."
I owned a single barrel Iver Johnson (?) .410 that was marked as such. It was a small frame weapon much like the .22 Rifles.
as were manufactured in the very early 1900s.
Jimmy

Last edited by jimmyj; 06-26-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:42 PM
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I found this...
Quote:
the H&R Small Bore Double Hammer Gun (catalog name for this model) was manufactured between 1909-1920. the patent date of 2-27-1900 is one of the patent used on this gun (number 644402 attachment of hammer spring).

heres what written in the up coming H&R book on this model;
H & R SMALL BORE DOUBLE BARREL HAMMER GUN
1909-1920
The debate on just where this shotgun was manufactured is still on going. There is evidence that points to European as well as U.S.A origin. This model is listed in the catalogs as having Imported Walnut butt stock and forearm, while other H & R shotguns of the era are listed as having American Walnut butt stock and fore-end. H & R catalog number 12 (1913/1914) has a parts list and diagram that show the different parts of the action, which indicates there were parts on hand that could be ordered. This is a model that needs more research done on it. Whatever its origin, it was a limited production model offered between 1909 and 1920 and not encountered very often. I would estimate production at 5,000 to 10,000. The only variations I have discovered so far are in the chambering. The original chambering was 20 or 28 gauge and 44 cal. shot. Toward the end of production two other chambering were offered 410-44 and 14mm shot. The era of 1916/1917 appears to be the first time H & R offer their shotguns (single or double barrels) in the 410-44 chambering.

In his book The Breech Loading Shotgun in America 1865-1940, J.T. Vorisek suggests the design and machinery for this shotgun were purchased from Neumann Freres of Liege, Belgium and I am inclined to agree. The lack of any Belgium proof marks would certainly indicate manufacture in the U.S.A. In a like manner the stock being manufactured of Imported Walnut indicates some inventory on hand was also purchased.
SPECIFICATION;
Side by Side double barrel, side lock action with exposed hammers; English style walnut pistol gripped butt stock and fore-end, checkered; lock plates removed by single screw; frame forged steel; finish, browned barrel and case hardened frame; coil springs thru-out; rebounding hammers; cross bolt barrel locking; double triggers; barrel are made of de-carbonized steel; right barrel modified choke and left barrel full choke.
YEARS
1909-1916 - 20 gauge - 28 INCHES - 6 LBS. – Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
20 gauge - 26 INCHES - 6 LBS -- Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
28 gauge - 28 INCHES - 6 LBS -- Standard Loads both Black & smokeless Powder
28 gauge - 26 INCHES - 5 LBS – Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
44 cal - 26 INCHES - 5 LBS -- 44 W.C.F. and 44 XL shot cartridges only

1917-1920- 20 gauge - 28 INCHES - 6 LBS. – Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
20 gauge - 26 INCHES - 6 LBS -- Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
28 gauge - 28 INCHES - 6 LBS -- Standard Loads both Black & smokeless Powder
28 gauge - 26 INCHES - 5 LBS – Standard Loads both Black & Smokeless Powder
410/44 – 28 INCHES - 5 LBS -- 44 W.C.F. and 44 XL shot cartridges only
410/44 – 26 INCHES - 5 LBS -- 44 W.C.F. and 44 XL shot cartridges only
14mm gauge - 28 INCHES - 5 LBS -- 14mm shot cartridges only
14mm gauge - 26 INCHES - 5 LBS -- 14mm shot cartridges only

as this is one of the 410 chambered guns it would be of the later production.
Hope this helps some.


Jim
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:35 PM
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Thank you very much, I appreciate the help. Wonder what the value would be?
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:55 PM
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This looks like the same gun that I own. I have also had trouble finding out info about it. I can tell you that a 410 shell will not fit in mine but I have shot a few dozen CCI 44 spl/mag shot shells with it. I believe these shells are actually made to shoot out of a .44 cal. revolver.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:27 PM
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Default H&R 44 Cal Double Barrel Shotgun

This is my first post as I am a new member. I to have one of these shotguns and am need of some parts. I need the trigger assy w/guard and forearm for mine. If anyone out there has the parts and would like to sell them please let me know.

Last edited by Old Sarge 2011; 06-16-2011 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jester3939 View Post
This looks like the same gun that I own. I have also had trouble finding out info about it. I can tell you that a 410 shell will not fit in mine but I have shot a few dozen CCI 44 spl/mag shot shells with it. I believe these shells are actually made to shoot out of a .44 cal. revolver.
There was a .44 WCF or .44-40 shot cartridge , which is long obsolete. http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwpre410.html

Do not fire .44 mag shotshells as the casings will most likely split.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:54 AM
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The aprobation for the quoted material on this shotgun belongs to the late Bill Goforth, just to set the record straight and provide credit where it is due.

Some other info:
The early Small Frame Hammerguns marked as .44 CALIBER were designed to shoot the .44-40XL shot shell or the .44 XL Marbles Gamegetter. The 2.5" .410 shot shell may fit, but unless the chamber has been reamed out - it probably will be a bit unsafe when the petals open on ignition. The .410 wasn't standardized in the industry until around 1920. Current RETAIL prices start around $700 for a fair to good example - up to over $1200 for V.Good+. These guns are fairly scarce and don't show up in the market very often. I have two - paid $800 for the .44 CALIBER and right around $1000 for the 28 ga.
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:06 PM
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Here's my two examples:

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Old 06-17-2011, 03:21 PM
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Saw a box of factory 44-40 a.k.a 44 xl on Gunbroker yesterday at my LGS. Think they wanted $250 for it. My father-in-law came to me asking if I could find info on a shotgun label "44 cal." Even with today's internet it still took some digging. Here is a very good internet link on the 44XL.
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