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  #1  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:13 PM
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3rd Gen Neal 3rd Gen Neal is offline
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Default North American Arms .22

Do any of you guys have one and if so do you consider it anything besides a "cute gun" as my girlfriend says? I have the .22lr model and I used to bring it with me when I rode my bike around the neighborhood, but one day I was thinking, what the heck is this going to do to a dog or much less a person besides piss them off. I now carry my G26 in my front pocket (I will N O T wear a fanny pack!)...so what if it gets soaked in sweat...its tupperware and easy to clean. I guess my question is would you even consider one of those a weapon?
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:18 PM
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I have one but I don't carry it. I would be afraid to pull it on someone because if they have a real gun I could get hurt. Larry
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:21 PM
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I have one in 22LR and 22 Mag. After considerable effort to adapt to it's peculiarities, I consider it little more than a novelty. A very well made novelty....if nothing else were available (and I mean absolutely nothing else), it might be my last line of defense....probably it would morph into a the line of last defense....

I'm considering trading mine off. But it IS cute.

As I've heard others comment, "it's enough to annoy an adversary greatly, be of questionable lethality if needed, yet legally considered deadly force........if one survived having to use it, the civil action following could be devastating"....
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:22 PM
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Had one years back but didn't keep it long. Recoil wasn't pleasant and couldn't hit much of anything with it anyway.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:55 PM
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It beats a rock or a sharp stick.
It might even be better than a can of OC ?

IMHO

Surely others will disagree .
Patrick
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:01 PM
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It's better than nothing but most any other gun would be a better choice. I have one, not sure why.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:11 PM
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I only carry one as a BUG. You can expect about 8" penetration in balistic gel from a 1 1/8" .22 lr. mini. I can hit decent and fast with mine at close range. They are their own animal and take getting used too. I normally carry a .22 mag. Black Widow as a second, or third gun. It's super accurate and easily so out to 25 yds. CCI maxi mag. +Vs will penetrate 16"+ of gel and TNTs will expand to .032" even through heavy cloth. I don't think anyone should ever carry a .22 as a primary, but they are serious and deadly in the right hands.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joni_Lynn View Post
It's better than nothing but most any other gun would be a better choice. I have one, not sure why.
Yep same story here. I always figured it to be a last chance thing. Im in deep and up close stick it under the perps chin or in his gut and have at it. I have the 1 1/8 convertable one with rem balistic tip 22 mag.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:36 PM
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My wife has one that I have carried on occassion just to say I had a gun. I have shot the little beast a few times and find it very difficult to actually hit anything with. It probably does beat a rock or sharp stick, but only one of the same size and weight.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:36 PM
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A local LEO was killed by one during a traffic stop several years ago. One shot missed the vest. Bad guy got away.

22Lrs can kill, take them seriously.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:52 PM
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I've got a .22 that I often carry in a pocket or in a day pack, when in the field. It's just the thing to administer a coup-de-grace shot to a downed game animal, and with the oversize holster grips it's plenty accurate to hit the head of a snake at 6-8' range. I never carry it in lieu of a real gun, just as another more precise tool...
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:15 PM
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Mine's a .22 LR. Other than just a fun little toy, I consider it an ultra-concealable, last-ditch, stick-it-in-eye-ear-nose backup. The only way I would ever carry it as a primary weapon is if, in some nightmare scenario, I was forced to wear nothing but a Speedo. Not a nightmare for me, mind you, but something that would be distincly unpleasant for anyone with me!
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2009, 10:55 PM
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Having been shot by a departed friend (NO, I'm not the reason for his departure) who shot me with a 10/22 while we were squirrel hunting, I can tell you that a 22lr will put a hurt on you in a bad way in a hurry. I have carried a 2" NAA mini 22 Mag as a BUG on occassion. Would I ever consider it as a primary? HELL NO!!! As a BUG, way down the line, past the Glock 26/27, 6904, Mdl 60-14 357, Mdl 37, KT P3AT or P32. Unless the situation requires very VERY discreat concealment the NAA 22 Mag is way down the list as a BUG (and even lower down the line for the 22 LR version). The best I can do with my NAA 22 Mag is keep them all on the paper of a B-27 at 25 yards. Basically it's a push gun for me.

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Last edited by Class III; 08-23-2009 at 10:58 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2009, 11:05 PM
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I've got one in .22wmr
I love it and don't see me ever getting rid of it. I wouldn't discount it at all as personal protection. It WOULD have to be up close and personal though.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:25 AM
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I had one for a while, used to carry it as a BUG. Mine was a .22LR/.22Mag convertiable with the neat little "flip" grip that folded up to cover the trigger.

The one I had keyholed badly with .22 mag ammo. A trip back to the factory saw it rebarreled. Problem wasn't as bad, but still existed. Strangely, it did not keyhole with the .22 LR cylinder in place.

I didn't have issues with recoil or noise being excessive evening use the magnum cylinder.

To carry it, you're supposed to put the hammer into the safety notches between the chambers in the cylinder. If the hammer somehow gets drawn back slightly, which can happen depending on how you carry it, you may find that hammer resting directly over the primer of a live round instead. Had that happen too.

Forget about reloading one. You need to remove the cylinder and punch out spent ammo, though one popular leather pocket holster for these does indeed include a pouch provision for extra ammo, rather optimistically I'd say.

It's also possible to flub the cocking of the hammer and get a misfire.

But... they are tiny and can probably go places where no other gun can go. If you need that, well then you really have little or no choice, save to dig up an old Baby Browning that has foibles of its own.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
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Forget about reloading one. You need to remove the cylinder and punch out spent ammo, though one popular leather pocket holster for these does indeed include a pouch provision for extra ammo, rather optimistically I'd say.
That little pocket is where I keep my spare house and car key. That pocket holster reminds me of a couple of things.

First is that it's a great design because it covers the hammer. A covered trigger doesn't matter with NAA minis. The hammer must be covered so that there's no way it can get knocked out of that safety notch.

Second is what a bunch of idiots must be running NAA. I remember calling them and suggesting that they offer a leather holster for the Black Widow like they do for the lr. and .22 mag minis. I got blown off. Also, a quick look down the barrel of my .22 lr. mini reveals the sorriest, silliest, shallow, cheesey rifling I've ever seen in my life. The black Widow has nice rifling. The Black Widow shoots straight, the .22 lr. doesn't. I wonder why? Obviously since I only ever hear of keyholing issues with the minis, that's the norm, but the problem never gets fixed. Like I said, they're idiots. I remember 38-44 HD posting about a Freedom arms .22 lr. mini that he had and it was a straight shooter. IIRC, he could hit a 5 gal. bucket at 100 yards. If freedom Arms could make a straight shooting little pistol, there's no reason NAA couldn't either. Of course, instead of un%$&@ing their current line up, NAA busys themselves with introducing things such as "The Earl", an answer to a question that was never asked.

The Black Widow; that's one I researched before I bought and have no regrets. Here are my thoughts. The fixed sight model is the way to go. Mine shoots POA with the sights which are really drift adjustable using CCI TNT magnums. The .22 mag./.22 lr. conversion cylinder model is the way to go. I do most of my practice with the lr. cylinder. The magnum gets used for carry. I replaced the ridiculously big factory grips with standard .22 mag. frame wood grips. They conceal much better.

IIRC there is a great article to be found on the NAA website in which Kathy Jackson details different gripping techniques for NAA minis. They are strange beast and someone who wishes to master them should learn these different ways of grasping the things.

As time allows I will post my .22 lr. mini and Black Widow test results in the thread Perma-Gel Test Results in the Ammo forum. I believe the thread in which they were originally posted has been deleted.

All that said, I'm curious if anyone has tried the mini revolvers/Dixie Derringers that Charter Arms offers. They might be a better alternative.

Last edited by flop-shank; 08-24-2009 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:13 PM
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I guess I'm a glutton for punishment: I had two of them, both 22LR. Then one day, I went out to the range an put up a standard pistol target at no more than 10 yards. Fired three cylidners full (15 rounds); still had a clean target. Sold them.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2009, 05:33 PM
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Better than nothing. I have a combo model but keep the magnum cylinder loaded with Hornady V-Max's. Also makes a nice yard gun for snakes loaded with shotshells.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/08_22_wmr.htm
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:46 PM
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Two of the little buggers both .22 Mag. I really like the Black Widow and it will print at 7yds. Had the other convertable for a long time. More of a Back BUG and as has been said works good on snakes around the cabin in shorts. Better than a rock in the pocket.


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Old 08-24-2009, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
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I guess I'm a glutton for punishment: I had two of them, both 22LR. Then one day, I went out to the range an put up a standard pistol target at no more than 10 yards. Fired three cylidners full (15 rounds); still had a clean target. Sold them.
My .22 lr. is very finicky. It shoots terrible with almost everything, but does decent enough at 25 ft. or less with Remington Golden Bullets. Just my luck, my gun likes crappy ammo.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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I'm a fan of the little pistols- simply because they are neat, unusual and really there isn't anything out there that quite fits the category that they cover except them...or maybe a Baby Browning or something else similar.

They carry about like a pocket knife, and are easy to forget about because they are the only gun that can be used in any and all types of clothing, without "printing."

They are the most convenient CCW that money can buy.
The above statement does not suggest carrying one as a primary carry handgun, but if you can't carry anything larger simply because of any reason, carry it.

I wouldn't recommend being without one for any reason- whether carrying anything else or not. Preferably in the off-hand pocket for the simple reason that you may not be able to get to your primary.

We had a trooper here many years ago that went to a call and was grabbed on the right arm by a large German shepherd. The trooper, try as he might to force his way out or to his duty weapon, he couldn't. He reached into his off hand pocket and retrieved the little NAA .22 WMR and put two rounds into the skull of the dog which dispatched it.


They are small, yet handy. Don't discount them as something laughable. I don't see any volunteers to let me shoot at them with one.

"Mouseguns" definitely have a place in the CCW holder's proverbial vocabulary. To segregate these pieces out as ineffective, archaic and questionable is to relegate an important component of the freedom of the shooting sports out of existence.
Do not underestimate the importance that these little pieces provide.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2009, 05:58 PM
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I do own a .22 wmr, an .22lr and a cased .22 short. I did only fire the .22lr and find out that 3 of the 5 shots are keyholed.

Would I carry this revolver as a backup if it is alloud in the Netherlands (Yes when Hell friezes over)? I sure do this as a bug revolver. Even a keyhole .22 do hurt on a small distance. My carry gun would by the S&W model 681.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:43 PM
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Wife bought one but for some reason never carries it. She prefers her S&Ws. I have shot it with the .22 mag cylinder and it is ok out to 20 ft or so. With the .22 LR cyl. it keyholes. The rifling is abominable. It would make a good back up if the rifling were done properly.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorFarmer View Post
If you need that, well then you really have little or no choice, save to dig up an old Baby Browning that has foibles of its own.

I've got a baby browning, and have had 2 NAA revolvers- both .22lr, and both functioned well for what they were intended for. Belly guns.

The baby browning is a fine little pistol, and I do carry it on occasion. It's heavy for it's size, BUT it's a .25.

The best quote ever about the .25 was "If you shoot somebody with that .25 and they find out about it, they're liable to be pissed."
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:05 PM
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It's an "Onion Field" piece for sure. I have one and out to about 5m it will hit a soda can.

I read a report many, many years ago where a guy survived being almost beaten to death. He was able to get it out of his back pocket and get one round off at contact range in his attacker's eye.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:41 PM
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Is that a Glock in your front pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
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Is that a Glock in your front pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Good one man, I needed a laugh this am. As you can tell by my user name, I'm obsessed w-S-W autos, but you must admit...the G26 is great for certain times like when you are riding a bike w/no shirt on to conceal a holster. For some reason I don't like the M&P compact.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:48 PM
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Any caliber can kill if the round has the right placement. I investigated one of our local mobster's homicide and his body guard who were both shot several times in the head with a .22.
If you are not able to hit a barn door with a larger caliber, but shoot a 1 1/2" group at close range with a .22, then use the .22.
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Old 12-17-2015, 07:39 PM
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I've had one for years. Carry in my pocket everyday. If I can't hit em. Maybe they'll DIE laughing.

But it should work, all I need it for is to get me to my truck! Then it's on!
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:21 PM
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Last ditch, up-to-&-touching self defense. As has been noted, .22lr will definitely kill.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:10 PM
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I had a small .25 auto and a nickle .32 Davis Derringer and if I had to choose a very small BUG I think I would pick the Derringer. I was lucky to hit a pie plate at 15 feet with that gun but it was reliable and I still had more confidence in it than a .22 or .25 acp. In those days you had a choice of those type guns or the next size up was a .38 snub, but now with the polymer pocket .380s they have made those tiny guns mostly unnecessary.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:29 PM
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I've seen a .22LR traverse over a foot of tissue when a friend I was hiking with had a semi auto go off in the right rear pocket of his jeans. He stuck the gun in his jeans while crossing a deep snow filled ravine so he could use both hands for support. The bullet went in at the top of his calf, traversed around and exited just above his ankle. Dude was a big guy with lots of fat and muscle. Doc said the wound channel indicated it bounced off bones to make the path it followed. You don't want to take a .22 LR at close range, and anybody who's seen the damage a .22 mag. hollow point can inflict knows it's not a mouse gun.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:01 AM
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I've got one of their Black Widow models in .22LR, a guy threw it into a trade to sweeten the deal. I thought it was a cute little pistol and took it to the range to see how well it worked. At ten yards it will put them where you point it, being a single action pistol with a rather unwieldy action I would be hard pressed to consider it a back-up pistol and I have enough small semi-autos to concealed carry. I've knew a kid in elementary school that died from a .22lr shot to the body, I've got plenty of respect for any caliber. One day maybe I'll throw it in on a trade to sweeten the deal.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:39 AM
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I have a .22 mag Pug, wife has a .22 mag Black Widow. Both wear Revision CV grips, her's also has a laser that replaces the cylinder pin, mine has a factory night sight on the front. Loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. They are reasonably accurate at across a small room distance.

I wear mine in a Safariland Drop Leg rig, level II retention, with spare loops everywhere...

Or a pocket holster other times...
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:20 PM
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Can never have too many guns that can fit in one's pocket (I refuse to call them "mouse guns"). Then again, you know me!

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Old 12-19-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by OMCHamlin View Post
I have a .22 mag Pug, wife has a .22 mag Black Widow. Both wear Revision CV grips, her's also has a laser that replaces the cylinder pin, mine has a factory night sight on the front. Loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. They are reasonably accurate at across a small room distance.

I wear mine in a Safariland Drop Leg rig, level II retention, with spare loops everywhere...

Or a pocket holster other times...
I'm a traditionalist. I had a Tom Three persons made for mime by El Paso Saddlry. Left handed with fishscale and matching belt
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  #37  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:37 AM
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I like mine only because it's cute

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Old 12-19-2015, 10:38 AM
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Primary and BUG. Freedom Arms 22 mag.
I'm left handed but shoot right handed, my bug is under my left hand and I am good with it.
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  #39  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:41 AM
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I like mine. It has keyholed before with lightweight .22 mag, but generally it's fine with most full weight and .22lr as well. It shoots the newer Hornady load really well, even out to 50ft.
I'd like to try the new laser doohickey grips on it, it would benefit greatly I think.
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  #40  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:52 AM
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I have one and carried it before CC was legal in my area, and after when very deep concealment was necessary because my employer forbid firearms in the office. We had an incident about two years ago when a woman dropped one of these in a big box store. It went off (hammer obviously not in the "safety" notch between chambers) and hit another customer. Fortunately, he survived. I was going to say it was not a serious wound, but I think any gunshot is a serious wound.
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  #41  
Old 12-22-2015, 09:14 AM
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I tried the Mini at 25yrds the other day, as luck would have it.
I used a .22mag load in it that I'd never tried before, Federal 50gr GameShok. This load is more like a .22lr HV than magnum, really, it chrono'd avg vel of ~1070fps in the 6.5" Ruger Single Six, so my expectations velocity wise in the inch and 5/8 mini were probably in the high 700 to low 800fps range.
Having drilled my last chrono with this little beauty, I was careful to aim really high, using all of the front sight. The 'X' marked at top of the paper was my aiming point. The other X below the bull was for the Gp100 I was also shooting that day with .38sp wadcutters.

So lots of keyholing, but I'm actually pleased it kept all 20 shots on the paper. I'm gonna try it again with ammo it likes, I bet it can do a lot better with stuff flying nose first.
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22lr, 681, browning, ccw, departure, glock, hornady, leather, model 681, primer, remington, trooper

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