When Do I Get To Find Out?

[bdGreen]

Admin Edit-

If you are NOT bdGreen (the OP here), rboineau (the seller), or bravastar1 (the buyer),
please DO NOT post in this thread.
I appreciate all the posts below made in good faith, but this is an Admin matter from here on.

the original post >>>

I put an 'I'll Take It' in the Classifieds and was the only one to do so.

The seller later commented that he 'sold it' to the first caller.

That isn't the rules and we all know that.

Now, the gun sale post has been completely removed.

I want to know what happened to my gun?

I wanted that gun and played by the rules. Am I going to get it or not?

bdGreen

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I put an 'I'll Take It' in the Classifieds and was the only one to do so.

The seller later commented that he 'sold it' to the first caller.

That isn't the rules and we all know that.

Now, the gun sale post has been completely removed.

I want to know what happened to my gun?

I wanted that gun and played by the rules. Am I going to get it or not?

bdGreen

PM the Admin with the forum name of the seller and your complaint. You probably won't be getting your gun, but they may not get to sell another here . . .

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I sent two red flag notices to the admins while the ad was current.

No one has responded to me.

The notices were sent via the sellers final response of 'sold to the first caller'.

So, the admins know from whence it came and why.

Seller also responded to his own post which is also a no-no. Don't ask me how I know that.

bdGreen

I have never received a response when I reported a post. The likely result is that the seller won't get to post any more. Do a search on his screen name and check his status.

[k22fan]

The rules state that if an advertiser sells their item through another forum or locally then they should promptly edit that into their ad title. If that is what occurred there wound not be an "I'll take it" post by the buyer. Apparently you posted "I'll take it" after the item was sold but before the seller edited his thread. I do not see a violation of the rules. In fact to avoid bumping the thread negotiations for a lower price are required to take place outside of the thread. An offer and acceptance by email or PM often commits the seller. IMO, a 3rd party posting "I'll take it" after the sale does not ethically release the seller from following through on the PM agreement.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I want to know what happened to my gun?

I wanted that gun and played by the rules. Am I going to get it or not?

bdGreen

I forgot to add this:

First question you might get an answer to, but I think you already know what happened to a gun that was not yours, but that you tried to buy.

Second question: No. But you already knew that as well.

[bdGreen]

Originally Posted by k22fan

The rules state that if an advertiser sells their item through another forum or locally then they should promptly edit that into their ad title. If that is what occurred there wound not be an "I'll take it" post by the buyer. Apparently you posted "I'll take it" after the item was sold but before the seller edited his thread. I do not see a violation of the rules. In fact to avoid bumping the thread negotiations for a lower price are required to take place outside of the thread. An offer and acceptance by email or PM often commits the seller. IMO, a 3rd party posting "I'll take it" after the sale does not ethically release the seller from following through on the PM agreement.

You don't have any idea what your are talking about.
I have spoken to the seller.
He got a call from a Forum member here.
He didn't care that the 'I'll take it' was posted. He sold it to the first guy that he got a call from. That's a fact.
Now, when I conveyed to him the rules of the Forum his response was 'I am not going to sit around and wait'.

I know who the potential buyer is.


My point on this whole cluster bomb is that I posted an 'I'll take it'. No one else did.
And, the person that is going to get it made contact by phone only. As I have already stated that person is a Forum member on this Forum.
Of course you don't see a violation. You don't have any idea of the communications that I have had since DAY 1.

"In fact to avoid bumping the thread negotiations for a lower price are required to take place outside of the thread. An offer and acceptance by email or PM often commits the seller."

This whole statement is poop. No offer or email commits the seller unless it is a follow up to an 'I'll take it' in the Classifieds. THAT's the rules.
No thread bumping happened on my watch and the Forum rules were followed to a 'T', by me. No one else.
An 'I'll take it' followed by a private message to the seller. Simple as that. Just the way Lee laid it out.

bdGreen

[Kanewpadle]

No, you're not getting the gun. Happy?

K22fan was just trying to help and you blast him?

It's your fault because you didn't state all the facts in your initial post but choose to share them in your last post to make up for it.

If there was any wrong doing Lee will figure it out. In the mean time don't be nasty because it won't help your cause.

[bdGreen]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

No, you're not getting the gun. Happy?

K22fan was just trying to help and you blast him?

It's your fault because you didn't state all the facts in your initial post but choose to share them in your last post to make up for it.

If there was any wrong doing Lee will figure it out. In the mean time don't be nasty because it won't help your cause.

I am not a nasty guy.
I stated all the necessary facts in my first post to make the point I intended.

K22fan made some statements that were total conjecture, and yes, I found it to be out of line. His comments travelled around my original post with no merit of truth. When someone does that I don't believe that correcting that someone is out of line.

"No, you're not getting the gun. Happy?" Really? Like I already stated, "I am not a nasty guy", but, that comment is condescending and nothing I have said or done to you warrants that.

The facts will help my case, not conjecture from those not in the know.
I am still waiting or a response from the admins.

bdGreen

[s&wchad]

Lee has assigned me to the classifieds and I do my best to enforce the rules and keep members safe from fraud. You didn't do anything wrong, but it looks like you weren't the first person to commit to buying the gun and I doubt it will be headed your way.

I pulled the ad from public view. I'll restore it and make the buyers username public as soon as I know who bought it. If the seller doesn't provide the information, any future ads will be deleted as soon as I see them. The staff can see the deleted ad with the reason listed as "unidentified sale".

Sellers are allowed to set their own terms and in this case, the seller posted the following in the ad (email address and phone number removed from quote):

I do not have a computer (am using local library's) so hosting pictures is a problem. Will get a neighbor kid to send you some upon request, 'tho it may take a day or two. Best to e-mail me at ***********.com or call **********, leave a message with clearly spoke phone number and I will call you back.

Nowhere in the ad did he say "First "I'll take it" gets it". He later posted that the first person who contacted him bought the gun.

From our classifieds rules:

Establish CLEAR TERMS in advance, like any INSPECTION PERIOD and Right to Return.
If you reserve the right to NOT deal with some members, SAY SO.
This is not complicated- simply state ALL your terms and requirements clearly in the ad.
COMPLETE Terms, ACCURATE descriptions, FULL disclosure, and GOOD pics make life simpler for everyone!

It's proper and fair to sell to the first person who commits. It looks like that's the case here. Sometimes items are sold on other boards and sometimes the first commitment to buy is made by PM, email or phone call. I know it's frustrating to be the first person to post "I'll take it" and not get the gun, but it doesn't necessarily mean that things were handled unfairly.

There were some clear rule violations associated with this ad and they were dealt with accordingly.

- Several members posted "I <phoned and> left you a message". That's not allowed here. Any ad reply other than a commitment to buy will get dinged and deleted every time. Some members have been suspended for repeated violations.

From our rules:

9. NO extraneous posts!
The ONLY allowable posted reply to an ad is "I'll take it".
Ask questions, request additional photos and offer advice by PM or email, not in the ad thread.
If a sellers PM box is full, report the ad and the staff will notify them.
Do not comment in an ad.
Do NOT bump an ad that is not yours.
Place Feedback in the Feedback forum, NOT in the thread you dealt in.
DO NOT post "I'll take second".
If an item is sold before you hit it, LEAVE it ALONE. If the deal falls through, the seller can announce that.
If you suspect a problem with an ad, report it with the in the top right of the ad. Do not post your suspicions in the ad.

These extraneous posts bump an ad an unfair number of times, and deprive other ads of their turn at the top of the page.

- The gun sold on this board in the first 24 hours and the buyer wasn't identified (as required). Once a deal was reached, the sells should have had the buyer post "I'll take it per our conversation". He also could have edited the original ad and said, "Sold to _______".

This is from the rules:

If your item sells on this site within the first 24 hours of being listed, you MUST have the buyer post "I'll take it". If the item sells after 24 hours, you can simply edit the title and add "SOLD" to the beginning. DO NOT post "SOLD" in a new reply. To edit a title, click "edit" in post #1 and then click "go advanced".

- If your item sells elsewhere, please edit your ad PROMPTLY to show that it sold.
* Mark it sold in the TITLE of your ad.
* If it sells elsewhere within the first 24 hours, edit the original ad text and state "Sold on another forum" or "Sold on my website" or something similar to show where it was sold. DO NOT post "SOLD" in a new reply.

Failure to comply with the above requirements will result in a one point infraction titled "Unidentified Sale". The point will remain active for one year.

- One ad thread at a time per classifieds section, one bump per day. You may list as many items as you wish in the ad. You may edit your original ad at any time. Sale items MUST be priced. This has not changed.

BUYERS/POTENTIAL BUYERS/CURIOUS INDIVIDUALS

- Anyone buying here for RESALE is required to WAIT 24 hours after an ad is posted before buying.

- The ONLY allowable posted reply to an ad is "I'll take it", PERIOD.
DO NOT ask questions, post "PM sent" or "email sent" or make offers in the thread.
DO NOT post "I'll take seconds".
Ask questions or make offers by PM or email.
If you suspect a problem with an ad, report it with the in the top right of the ad.

With all the excitement over this gun, people forgot where they were. The rules aren't that complicated and the changes have been well publicized for over a year. There's an announcement in the classifieds headers, there are multiple stickies in each ad section and there's a thread titled ***MANDATORY READ*** Rule Changes that I've bumped almost daily.

[handejector]

If you are NOT bdGreen (the OP here), rboineau (the seller), or bravastar1 (the buyer), please DO NOT post in this thread.
I appreciate all the posts above made in good faith, but this is an Admin matter from here on.

/////////////////////////
To the matter-

Originally Posted by bdGreen

When Do I Get To Find Out?

We give answers when we have them. We can't give an answer till we have one.

/////////////////////////

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I put an 'I'll Take It' in the Classifieds and was the only one to do so.

The seller later commented that he 'sold it' to the first caller.

That isn't the rules and we all know that.

There appears to be a lot of misubderstanding about the "I'll Take It", so let's examine the rule:

Originally Posted by handejector

We now REQUIRE that an “I’ll Take It” be posted by the buyer in the ad, if the item sells within the first 24 hours.
The seller must require that “I’ll Take It” be posted in the ad, if it sells within the first 24 hours.
The buyer should follow it with a PM or email in a timely manner.
Failure to comply with the above requirements will result in a one point infraction titled "Unidentified Sale". The point will remain active for one year.

The buyer is required to post the "I'll Take It" {ITI hereafter} so that we know who bought a gun that sold in the first 24 hours.
Does it say that the first person to post ITI gets the gun? NO, it does not say that.
IF a seller words his ad that way, then of course he should stick to it.
IF a seller states OTHER terms, a prospective buyer should follow them. This seller made it clear that he does NOT have a computer at his home, and prospective buyers should call or email him. He can possibly access emails on his phone.
So, if he has to sell the gun via a phone call, that's fine.
Then, either the buyer should post the ITI, or the seller should identify the buyer with "Sold to bravastar1" in the original ad post.
Not real complicated.

We TRY to be no more intrusive than we have to be.
A seller should be left alone as far as possible to deal his way and on his terms, so long as they are honest and reasonable.
The ITI only became required when we had dealers buying up all the good guns instantly for resale. We had to require it so we would know WHO bought a gun IF it sold in the first 24 hours.
If it does not sell in the first 24 hours, no ITI is even required!

////////////////////////

Originally Posted by bdGreen

Now, the gun sale post has been completely removed.

That is often done while we sort a situation out. No tinfoil required. It's not a conspiracy to cover the deep dark dirty secrets.
Once the Mod had the story sorted out, it was restored.
Just for this particular case, I'm also restoring the improper extraneous posts in that thread so the progression of events will be clear.

////////////////////////

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I sent two red flag notices to the admins while the ad was current.

No one has responded to me.

I was offboard most of last weekend. So was s&wchad, the principal Mod for the ads.
I saw your reports late Sunday, along with the other six made by other members. By then, the seller had already posted that the gun was sold.
I meant to lock the ad, but got distracted and forgot. I intended to leave it for s&wchad to sort out since he is more familiar with whatever classified habits the players in that thread have. He does a superb job and has my complete confidence.

As I said, I saw your reports, and a marvelous piece of wordcraft the first one was! For future reference, the staff and I are NOT your servants, employees, or your dog. You might want to consider addressing us at least as equals, or abstain from addressing us at all.

////////////////////

Originally Posted by bdGreen

You don't have any idea what your are talking about.
I have spoken to the seller.
He got a call from a Forum member here.
He didn't care that the 'I'll take it' was posted. He sold it to the first guy that he got a call from. That's a fact.
Now, when I conveyed to him the rules of the Forum his response was 'I am not going to sit around and wait'.

I know who the potential buyer is.


My point on this whole cluster bomb is that I posted an 'I'll take it'. No one else did.
And, the person that is going to get it made contact by phone only. As I have already stated that person is a Forum member on this Forum.
Of course you don't see a violation. You don't have any idea of the communications that I have had since DAY 1.

"In fact to avoid bumping the thread negotiations for a lower price are required to take place outside of the thread. An offer and acceptance by email or PM often commits the seller."

This whole statement is poop. No offer or email commits the seller unless it is a follow up to an 'I'll take it' in the Classifieds. THAT's the rules.
No thread bumping happened on my watch and the Forum rules were followed to a 'T', by me. No one else.
An 'I'll take it' followed by a private message to the seller. Simple as that. Just the way Lee laid it out.

bdGreen

Nice.................
A guy tries to offer insight into the situation, and gets raked over the coals.
_________________

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I am not a nasty guy.
I stated all the necessary facts in my first post to make the point I intended.

K22fan made some statements that were total conjecture, and yes, I found it to be out of line. His comments travelled around my original post with no merit of truth. When someone does that I don't believe that correcting that someone is out of line.

"No, you're not getting the gun. Happy?" Really? Like I already stated, "I am not a nasty guy", but, that comment is condescending and nothing I have said or done to you warrants that.

The facts will help my case, not conjecture from those not in the know.
I am still waiting or a response from the admins.

bdGreen

There are several points I'll address in the above post, not necessarily in the order you state them:

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I am still waiting or a response from the admins.

bdGreen

I'm your huckleberry.

Originally Posted by bdGreen

The facts will help my case, not conjecture from those not in the know.

I'm afraid the facts are not going to help you at all.

You knew the facts of this affair when you started this little melodrama here.

The buyer called you before he called the seller. You advised him to buy it.

You and the buyer spoke Sunday evening, but you started this Monday night.
You already knew the buyer had made a deal on Sunday.

On Saturday, you told the buyer to post ITI. He was at work, got real busy with customers, and failed to do so.
You later told him you posted the ITI on his behalf, thinking you were securing the gun for him.
He offered the gun to you.

bravastar1 was the first person to contact the seller by phone and left a message as the seller stated in the ad.
The seller returned the call, and sold bravastar1 the gun.
Except for the lack of an ITI being posted by bravastar1, the deal went off smoothly and according to the seller's stated terms and forum rules.

So, why are we here?
You have contrived a 'situation' where none really existed, obviously with malice aforethought.
I must assume you are doing this to create turmoil or vexation for us.
I think you harbor an underlying hostility towards this forum, or perhaps towards me personally, not that it matters which it is. I simply don't care.

It comes down to this-
The forum is what it is.
We put a lot of effort into running it as uniformly and smoothly as possible. That's no easy task when dealing with thousands of humans that vary greatly in ability, intelligence, and comprehension.
Life is short.
Why be unhappy?
If you, or anyone else, doesn't like how we run it, take a hike.
Just DON'T expect me or the Mods to jump at your commands and/or take guff like this off of you if you stay.
I hope that's clear enough for you to get a grip on what the forum is and how to use it.
I pull thorns that are stuck in my side.

Originally Posted by bdGreen

I am not a nasty guy.

Debatable.