Is this rule actually being enforced?

[fat tom]

"Anyone buying here for RESALE is required to WAIT 24 hours after an ad is posted before buying." Just curious.

f.t.

[Muss Muggins]

How would you know, unless the item gets posted on a sale website and another member notices it . . . ?

[markeb]

I inquired about this rule a while back and the reply was, that known resellers also buy off of this Forum to add to their personal collection. I guess that's OK, who knows for sure.

[fat tom]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

How would you know, unless the item gets posted on a sale website and another member notices it . . . ?

I'm that member.
f.t.

[Tom S.]

Originally Posted by fat tom

I'm that member.
f.t.

You noticed because you had skin in the game. To expect the moderators to keep track of sold items is a bit unrealistic, but I know they would welcome anyone who finds this kind of activity going on, to report it.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by fat tom

I'm that member.
f.t.

Then report the "I'll take it" post and explain what happened. That's how the rule gets enforced . . .

[Thiokol]

There was a high dollar pistol posted yesterday that was snapped up by an FFL holder within minutes. Whether it's for resale or for his personal collection is anybody's guess. So, unless the item ends up being posted here, there's no way to tell. And, you can't expect the mods to scour the internet to see if it's eventually posted for sale online. It could be immediately put up for sale in his brick & mortar store and nobody would be the wiser. I guess that there's really no iron clad way to enforce that rule other than to rely on the honesty and integrity of the buyer/reseller to abide by it.

[jcelect]

And again today we have another obvious infraction of this rule! A know seller on GB and FFL takes advantage of a flaming good deal in LESS than 1 minute! He is a member of SWCA and avid S&W collector so the purchase MUST be for his private collection! ? ! ? It is obvious to me he has notification of posts on his cell phone/pocket computer and he lives with this thing in his pocket! A transaction taking place in the same time stamp as the listing!
Another example of the rule with impossible enforcement! And to think I worry about buying and selling presentation cases on this forum, trying to adhere to the rules for vendors!
jcelect

[Bakebfr480]

If I wanted to re-sell a gun purchased here or on any other forum classified, if I wanted to re-sell it I'd re-sell it.

[jcelect]

Originally Posted by Bakebfr480

If I wanted to re-sell a gun purchased here or on any other forum classified, if I wanted to re-sell it I'd re-sell it.

The rule is not about reselling the item but when you buy it for resale in regards to the posting time. If you buy with intentions of resale, you must wait 24hrs to post "I'll take it". The point to this thread is how can this rule be enforced, other than the honor system! ? !
jcelect

[snuffy51]

I think it's called courtesy.

[ladder13]

The "for your personal collection" exemption is being made a farce of, has been since instituted, and everyone knows it.
The admins and mods are not to blame.

[BLUEDOT37]

Originally Posted by jcelect

And again today we have another obvious infraction of this rule! A know seller on GB and FFL takes advantage of a flaming good deal in LESS than 1 minute! He is a member of SWCA and avid S&W collector so the purchase MUST be for his private collection! ? ! ? It is obvious to me he has notification of posts on his cell phone/pocket computer and he lives with this thing in his pocket! A transaction taking place in the same time stamp as the listing!
Another example of the rule with impossible enforcement! And to think I worry about buying and selling presentation cases on this forum, trying to adhere to the rules for vendors!
jcelect

I believe they're using tapatalk. I expressed concern back when the rules were being re-written, several years ago, about the use of tapatalk (& it's "new post" alerts) in the "For Sale" section here. Just seems to go against the spirit of member fairness to me. It has nothing to do with whether someone's pocket's are deep enough to buy without pictures or details first.

.

[pharman]

Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37

I believe they're using tapatalk. I expressed concern back when the rules were being re-written, several years ago, about the use of tapatalk (& it's "new post" alerts) in the "For Sale" section here. Just seems to go against the spirit of member fairness to me. It has nothing to do with whether someone's pocket's are deep enough to buy without pictures or details first.

.

That explains why I'm not getting any of these (first few minutes after post) deals! I don't have this "tapatalk." I have an old fashioned laptop computer and a "TracFone." Only thing I notice in regards to this is that their "tapatalk" must not be working in regards to the super rare revolver I have for sale on here! They better get there phones checked!

[s&wchad]

Originally Posted by fat tom

"Anyone buying here for RESALE is required to WAIT 24 hours after an ad is posted before buying." Just curious.

f.t.

Yes, we do enforce the rule. Member have received extended suspensions (3-6 months) or have been banned for violating the policy. One extended suspension occurred within the last few weeks.

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

How would you know, unless the item gets posted on a sale website and another member notices it . . . ?

Correct. We do occasionally check online auction sites (ebay, GB) when we see suspicious purchases, but we rely on members to report actual violations. If you see an item come up for sale at a brick and mortar, at a show or online, please report it.

We're very strict about identifying the buyers and sellers regularly get dinged for failing to do so. They're prohibited from posting new ads until they identify the buyer.

Originally Posted by markeb

I inquired about this rule a while back and the reply was, that known resellers also buy off of this Forum to add to their personal collection. I guess that's OK, who knows for sure.

It's no secret, there was a substantial Lounge thread about this policy before it was instituted and the issue was well covered.
Here's the rule (take it literally and don't read things into it):

Anyone buying here for RESALE is required to WAIT 24 hours after an ad is posted before buying.

"Anyone" means anyone whether you are an FFL dealer, GunBroker (internet) seller, Flipper, or gun show trader.
Having or NOT having an FFL is NOT the issue!
Are you buying the item to resell it? If so, WAIT 24 hours.
We are very serious about this.
Any attempt to skirt this policy by using PMs, multiple IDs, or puppet buyers will result in permanent bans for the offenders.

We now REQUIRE that an “I’ll Take It” be posted by the buyer in the ad, if the item sells within the first 24 hours.
The seller must require that “I’ll Take It” be posted in the ad, if it sells within the first 24 hours.
The buyer should follow it with a PM or email in a timely manner.
Failure to comply with the above requirements will result in a one point infraction titled "Unidentified Sale". The point will remain active for one year.

Lee instituted the rule after receiving countless complaints. The rule doesn't single out dealers, it applies to everyone and goes to intent. We're all adults here and we give members the benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise. A dealer can immediately purchase for his own collect, as a gift, etc...
If he wishes to purchase with the intent of reselling, he must wait 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Tom S.

You noticed because you had skin in the game. To expect the moderators to keep track of sold items is a bit unrealistic, but I know they would welcome anyone who finds this kind of activity going on, to report it.

As I said earlier, I do compare forum purchases with GB/ebay sales when I suspect violations, but I can't catch everything.

We welcome any solid evidence of items purchased in the first 24 hours and then offered for sale elsewhere. Simply reporting that a "dealer" made a purchase here is a waste of time, since I scrutinize every single ad and every ad reply. Rest assured that everything BELOW the ***MANDATORY READ*** Rule Changes threads and the READ>>>DO NOT Post a Reply to ANY WTB Ad - Send PM<<< thread has been checked.

[jjbrewst1]

Originally Posted by Thiokol

There was a high dollar pistol posted yesterday that was snapped up by an FFL holder within minutes. Whether it's for resale or for his personal collection is anybody's guess. So, unless the item ends up being posted here, there's no way to tell. And, you can't expect the mods to scour the internet to see if it's eventually posted for sale online. It could be immediately put up for sale in his brick & mortar store and nobody would be the wiser. I guess that there's really no iron clad way to enforce that rule other than to rely on the honesty and integrity of the buyer/reseller to abide by it.

Well to answer your statement. I don't have a brick and mortar store, I have my house. I do however have an FFL and I sell consignment on GB. Now as most gun collectors I have quite an extensive private collection. So, I do agree that on the outside looking in, it would seem I got a great deal on a gun I don't how've in my personal collection. I have most 686's ever made. I even displayed them at the SWCA Annual Symposium in Spokane , WA. I even won an award for best display of those 3" Guns.

Here's the story. The 686-5 that everyone here is so mad about. Ended up being a 686-6 3" LOCK gun. And guess what I still honored my deal and bought it.

As always if any of the members out here that get mad when I purchase a gun or accessories want to come and visit or even just drop a hello. I'm always more than welcome. Some of my best friends came from this forum.

Sincerely

Jim Brewster

[Thiokol]

Originally Posted by jjbrewst1

Well to answer your statement. I don't have a brick and mortar store, I have my house. I do however have an FFL and I sell consignment on GB. Now as most gun collectors I have quite an extensive private collection. So, I do agree that on the outside looking in, it would seem I got a great deal on a gun I don't how've in my personal collection. I have most 686's ever made. I even displayed them at the SWCA Annual Symposium in Spokane , WA. I even won an award for best display of those 3" Guns.

Here's the story. The 686-5 that everyone here is so mad about. Ended up being a 686-6 3" LOCK gun. And guess what I still honored my deal and bought it.

As always if any of the members out here that get mad when I purchase a gun or accessories want to come and visit or even just drop a hello. I'm always more than welcome. Some of my best friends came from this forum.

Sincerely

Jim Brewster

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. This is what I was speaking of:

FS: Smith and Wesson Model 147-A and 27-2 both LNIB

[jjbrewst1]

Gotcha. Thanks jim

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by snuffy51

I think it's called courtesy.

Which I guess goes out the door real fast when a sweet potential profit is involved.

But let's face it: The "for personal collection" loophole weakens the rule to the point where it's almost no help at all for us non-dealer common folk.

[jjbrewst1]

Originally Posted by TTSH

Which I guess goes out the door real fast when a sweet potential profit is involved.



But let's face it: The "for personal collection" loophole weakens the rule to the point where it's almost no help at all for us non-dealer common folk.

You Common Folk? Are you ok enough to even buy the gun? I have sat back and watched and have bought VERY few since it came law. You know what I see. Guns being bought by guys with weird usernames and hardly any posts. It's fact.

My question is. If a gun comes up I want for me personally. Should I not buy it. So " the common folks" can buy it. Or not buy it so the weird username guy with no posts buys it and flips it?

What gives bud. What gives. Without an auction setting. there will always be whiners and cry babies that complain about every good gun being sold quickly. I think it's more of a jealousy anyways.

I welcome discussion. I really do.

[LewisFamilyFirearms]

Originally Posted by Thiokol

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. This is what I was speaking of:

FS: Smith and Wesson Model 147-A and 27-2 both LNIB

I understand where you guys are coming from, however the 147-A is one for my personal collection. I have been looking for one in like new condition for sometime now and I was fortunate enough to be awake when he posted it. He posted it at 11PM and I responded to the ad at 11:34PM that "ill take it" giving 34 minutes of fair play. I loose on plenty on these forums, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. There are plenty of guns that have been sold here recently that I would love to have owned for my collection, but I showed up to the plate too late. I don't think its fair that I am being accused of buying on this forum with the intention of resale right away, as I understand the rules clearly. Sure eventually this gun will be resold as even I get sick of looking at the same guns or another comes up that I would rather have but it is certainly not my intention when I post "ill take it" on this forum. Thank you for understanding

[s&wchad]

As I said before, we give members the benefit of the doubt.

No more unsubstantiated accusations. It creates hard feelings and fragments the board. If you have suspicions, keep them to yourself. If you have evidence that a member purchased an item in the first 24 hours and quickly offered it for sale, let us know.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by Thiokol

I guess that there's really no iron clad way to enforce that rule other than to rely on the honesty and integrity of the buyer/reseller to abide by it.

Originally Posted by jcelect

The point to this thread is how can this rule be enforced, other than the honor system! ? !

I'm running a bit slow lately, but I'll weigh in here.

It IS a difficult rule and policy to enforce.
I knew it would be from the beginning.
So, what does one do when faced with a problem that has no easy solution?
One could simply whine like a little girl with a broken doll.
Or, one could wade into the fray and land all the licks one can.

Choose one.

I really resent the constant implications that we don't enforce, or even try to enforce it.
Quite a few members have been suspended for two months for violating the rule. Two are quite recent.
A couple have been banned because they made it obvious they would not respect the rule.

Almost all of those violations were reported to us by a very small number of regular members.

Let's get back to this-

Originally Posted by handejector

It IS a difficult rule and policy to enforce.

Whatcha wanna do?
Cave in, give up, keep whinin', or help out?

If you choose cave in or give up, please quit whinin'.
If you choose to help out, we can catch more.

Send me PROOF that a gun bought in less than 24 hrs was flipped.
PROOF means a link to an auction or ad or some other method of PROVING it was resold.
You can report the posts and send us the venue and auction number, or send me a PM.

Originally Posted by jjbrewst1

You know what I see. Guns being bought by guys with weird usernames and hardly any posts.

Use the that is on every post to report these if you think something is going on. It may come to nothing, but we'll at least be alerted.

[jjbrewst1]

Originally Posted by handejector

I'm running a bit slow lately, but I'll weigh in here.

It IS a difficult rule and policy to enforce.
I knew it would be from the beginning.
So, what does one do when faced with a problem that has no easy solution?
One could simply whine like a little girl with a broken doll.
Or, one could wade into the fray and land all the licks one can.

Choose one.

I really resent the constant implications that we don't enforce, or even try to enforce it.
Quite a few members have been suspended for two months for violating the rule. Two are quite recent.
A couple have been banned because they made it obvious they would not respect the rule.

Almost all of those violations were reported to us by a very small number of regular members.

Let's get back to this-

Whatcha wanna do?
Cave in, give up, keep whinin', or help out?

If you choose cave in or give up, please quit whinin'.
If you choose to help out, we can catch more.

Send me PROOF that a gun bought in less than 24 hrs was flipped.
PROOF means a link to an auction or ad or some other method of PROVING it was resold.
You can report the posts and send us the venue and auction number, or send me a PM.




Use the that is on every post to report these if you think something is going on. It may come to nothing, but we'll at least be alerted.

Lee Nice to hear from you. I hope all is well.

[handejector]

Better than I was.
I gotta quit going to knife fights unarmed.

[Sevens]

For what it's worth, the 147A is a very rare item and as such, "market price" or even a few savvy folks' opinion on a dollar value for it is open to much interpretation here.

The price the seller offered it at was, in my opinion, quite fair.

It's not like some widow with zero idea of value posted up a Registered Magnum for $200 and a dealer pounced for a high dollar flip. In fact, the thread is still open and the other fine gun being offered is still available which seems like obvious evidence that the 147A buyer wasn't simply gathering up stock to be sold.

[JSR III]

I think that the folks that run this forum and those that do the police work are doing a FANTASTIC job. It is very easy to bitch about things when you have nothing to do with the solution.

Quite honestly, this is a free country and if Lee allowed anyone to buy any gun at any time it became available, sell it, eat it or melt it down for a paperweight, I would have no problem with it.

Instead, they have instituted a policy that allows everyone a chance to get a shot at any firearm offered. YES, it is difficult to enforce as someone could buy here and sell to their brother and make $1,000 profit and no one would ever know. OH WELL. Under the confines of this forum, they are doing the best possible job to make it fair to the membership and if folks are having a tough time of it I have one suggestion, find another forum of this caliber.

Again, I just want to say THANK YOU LEE and the moderators for running the BEST forum on the interweb and I am grateful to be a member.