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  #1  
Old 09-10-2017, 06:42 PM
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Cool Anti-Price Gouging

I recently became interested in the very fine FN firearms that are being offered for sale and purchased the FNS 9mm Compact, and subsequently was checking out the FN Forum. I thought it was very interesting that they have an anti-price gouging policy.

I thought this was a very nice thing for the FN Forum admins to do to ensure that the forum's true purpose is maintained rather than let it become yet another outlet for unscrupulous sellers that care nothing about sharing interests in the shooting sports and are just out for themselves. I know there are some that feel they should be able to ask whatever outrageous price far above market value they like, however, there are already many venues for that. In any event, just seems like ensuring no price gouging takes place is more in line with the general interests of a forum, just sharing a thought.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:13 AM
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And who wants to moderate that? What a nightmare.

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Old 09-13-2017, 10:47 AM
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There is nothing sold here that is a commodity required for life, like food or water or even 'needed' things like fuel. If a seller prices an item too high, the buyers here will determine whether they wish to pay the price or not. It's called "Free Market".

OP, may I ask what item you feel someone is price gouging on?
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:55 AM
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If their forum's resources are being overloaded with ridiculous nonsense then that sort of policy might make some sense. Otherwise, the market will easily take care of any such concerns -and do it more fairly and accurately than human "administration," in my opinion.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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That forum probably initiated that policy when a hot new FN item was first being offered and gougers were selling the first few available above retail.
I can only assume those willing to pay the gouger's price want it bad enough to do so. Actually, they have the right to do so if they prefer the time value to the dollar value, but most of us do get incensed when we see it happening.

S&W seldom has an item that hot that is in short supply.
We'll continue with a laissez-faire approach to pricing and let the buyers and the market set the level.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:54 PM
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Wink no price gouging here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
There is nothing sold here that is a commodity required for life, like food or water or even 'needed' things like fuel. If a seller prices an item too high, the buyers here will determine whether they wish to pay the price or not. It's called "Free Market".

OP, may I ask what item you feel someone is price gouging on?
This forum seems to get many new members as it is a very active forum. I think it may just be a disservice to new members or maybe members that are not current on a particular model when a firearm, set of grips, etc, are priced far above the fair market value. Most of what I see on the forum seems priced fairly, but on occasion not so much. I certainly understand the laissez-faire attitude that the admins and some members evidently prefer here; again just wonder if that may not serve the best interest of a forum being an arena of accurate information when someone engages in pricing something high enough to be considered in the realm of price-gouging. That said, sometimes I wonder why a seller removes the price after an item is sold, just makes me wonder if there was a large discrepancy between asking and selling price, is that indication of something being priced far too high or just someone seeking privacy, no accusation, just an obvious observation. In any event, I thing an anti-price gouging policy is a good idea, I know the admins are dead set against so will never happen here, just my $ .02, let the floggings begin
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:30 AM
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In the rules it asks that the prices be left after the sale has been completed to assist the members trying to research secondary market selling prices. I don't know why some of the members feel compelled to delete them.

As to a policy prohibiting price gouging, you're asking that the admins & moderators do the impossible. Who's to say what is a fair price and what isn't. I venture to say that if you were to ask 10 people what a fair price for a widget would be, you would get 10 different answers. The members here are pretty astute and anyone selling something for an outrageously inflated price will soon realize the error of his ways when the item lingers in the classifieds with no interest as recently occurred with an over priced Model 19. Allow Caveat Emptor to guide the buying decision and let the prospective buyer decide what is fair or not.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:50 AM
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Although the rules do state sellers should leave prices, I suspect many delete them as an indication that the item is sold. Often, buyers contact sellers with a counter offer and should the buyer accept, then the stated price isn't a true representation of what the item sold for anyway. Trying to police that would be impossible, as such negotiations are done via PM and email, neither of which are accessible by the moderators or administrators.

Due to the vast number of S&W products and their numerous variations and specialty sub groups, not to mention various parts for guns that have been produced for over 160 years, it's flat out impossible for someone to know the value on every item and to monitor said prices. For example, just looking at 'modern' S&W Model numbers, there are over 90, without looking at the various dash sub models, blued vs chrome, different barrel lengths or other distinguishing features such as 6 shot, 7 shot and 8 shot, materials used, square butt vs round butt and grips. Then you also have the 'special editions' such as anniversary models 'Lou Horton' models and the like, along with 1st gen, 2nd gen and 3rd gen semi automatics. When you add in S&W's 'plastic' guns and long guns (shotguns and rifles), the field of required expertise expands even more. Nor does that include the pre-numbering models of earlier S&W arms And that's just for S&W, . This board allows posting other manufacture's as well. The staff here are all volunteers, and asking them to be knowledgeable in all these prices just isn't realistic. Monitoring prices would end up being a complete nightmare that just is not feasible or realistic. In short, the board can't be held responsible for buyers not knowing what a fair price is vs an unfair price.

This isn't meant to be a flame in any respect, just an honest response as to why it would be nearly impossible to provide this kind of service.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
Although the rules do state sellers should leave prices, I suspect many delete them as an indication that the item is sold.
Simply editing the title of the thread to indicate that the item has been sold, as stated in the rules, eliminates the need to delete the price.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiokol View Post
Simply editing the title of the thread to indicate that the item has been sold, as stated in the rules, eliminates the need to delete the price.
You are thinking of an individual item. I was thinking more along the lines of ads with multiple items for sale. Nor was I justifying the practice, just speculating.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:02 PM
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Market value is whatever a buyer is willing to pay of his own free will.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiokol View Post
In the rules it asks that the prices be left after the sale has been completed to assist the members trying to research secondary market selling prices. I don't know why some of the members feel compelled to delete them.

As to a policy prohibiting price gouging, you're asking that the admins & moderators do the impossible. Who's to say what is a fair price and what isn't. I venture to say that if you were to ask 10 people what a fair price for a widget would be, you would get 10 different answers. The members here are pretty astute and anyone selling something for an outrageously inflated price will soon realize the error of his ways when the item lingers in the classifieds with no interest as recently occurred with an over priced Model 19. Allow Caveat Emptor to guide the buying decision and let the prospective buyer decide what is fair or not.
Thiokol makes some excellent points and knows the board, since he served as a mod for a decade. I want to clarify the rules terminology for the benefit of others. There's obviously some misunderstanding, since we occasionally receive reports when a seller edits out the price after a sale.

This is what they say:
Quote:
We request that you leave your ad, including sale prices, intact when items are sold.
Leaving your sale price will allow folks to search/research what similar items are selling for.
The key word there is request. Lee put a lot of thought into the rules and his wording is very concise and specific. We ask that sellers leave the price intact, but we do not mandate it. Other rules use terms like "we require..." and "you must..." and those are mandates.

We require that sale items be priced to prevent de facto auctions where sellers take bids and work bidders against each other. We require that buyers be identified when an item sells in the first 24 hours, because of our 24 hour moritioium on those purchasing for resale. Some buyers and sellers wish to keep the details of their transactions private and we respect their privacy within the confines of the rules.

IMO, historic posted selling prices have very limited value. It's quite common for people to haggle by PM, so a posted "I'll take it" does not necessarily mean that an item went for the asking price. Market values can also fluctuate wildly based on popular trends, availability and potential legislation. Look at items like "black guns", "Colt "snake guns", .22 ammunition and high capacity magazines and you'll see wild swings (up and down) over the past few years. It's also difficult to find specific items in our classifieds, because of inconsistent terminology used by sellers and the limitations of our search engine.

In the 6 years I've been a moderator here, I did intervine once because of an asking price. A member got dinged for posting an unpriced "make offer" ad. He then re-posted with a price of $1,000,000 OBO!
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:19 PM
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In the 6 years I've been a moderator here, I did intervine once because of an asking price. A member got dinged for posting an unpriced "make offer" ad. He then re-posted with a price of $1,000,000 OBO!
Always someone (for lack of more descriptive terminology) out there trying to work the system.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:27 PM
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Market value is whatever a buyer is willing to pay of his own free will.
EXACTLY!
There is NO such thing as price gouging. Something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay, no more, no less.

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Old 09-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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EXACTLY!
There is NO such thing as price gouging. Something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay, no more, no less.
Actually, there is such a thing. Price gouging is a pejorative term defined by when a seller spikes the prices of an item to an amount much higher than is reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, to an unethical extent.

Certainly it is to be expected on sites where the primary purposes are buying and selling. However, forums should be places where sincere, ethical and accurate information is exchanged, otherwise they become arenas for less than fair (deceitful?) sellers.
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:48 PM
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Economics 101.

The market price is what the market is willing to pay (without being compelled) for an item or service.

When supply is limited (unfired s&w victory models) price serves to establish an equilibrium between supply and demand. At $300.00 none are available, at $2,000 people looking for shooters choose other guns, but serious collectors may still obtain this desired artifact of history. At $5,000 few will forgo the opportunity to obtain multiple other options, but some will buy out of exceptional desire and/or to "complete their collections".

If an authority establishes an 'official price" that is less that what people are freely willing to pay. Say Wal-Mart selling .22LR for $3.00 per box of 50, people with funds will see opportunity and buy all of the available supply and resell on the secondary market.

Think of stores in the former Soviet-Union. Low official prices, no supply. Shoes sold off the dock at the factory. Vodka replacing the ruple as currency.

Our elected officials haven't figured this out. If you compel purchase of a product, you drive its price up. If you restrict manufacture by legislative fiat, you drive the prices in the marketplace up. If you restrict choice through uneven taxes or tariffs, you drive prices up.

If you wish to feed your children fresh fruit and the price of strawberries go up, you consider purchasing blueberries or raspberries. In this way all the available fruit is distributed to willing buyers.

Even in the event of a natural disaster, price fluctuations serve to ration limited resources, increased prices serve to reduce use, and to encourage those who possess excess to bring that excess to market.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
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Economics 101.

The market price is what the market is willing to pay (without being compelled) for an item or service.

When supply is limited (unfired s&w victory models) price serves to establish an equilibrium between supply and demand. At $300.00 none are available, at $2,000 people looking for shooters choose other guns, but serious collectors may still obtain this desired artifact of history. At $5,000 few will forgo the opportunity to obtain multiple other options, but some will buy out of exceptional desire and/or to "complete their collections".

If an authority establishes an 'official price" that is less that what people are freely willing to pay. Say Wal-Mart selling .22LR for $3.00 per box of 50, people with funds will see opportunity and buy all of the available supply and resell on the secondary market.

Think of stores in the former Soviet-Union. Low official prices, no supply. Shoes sold off the dock at the factory. Vodka replacing the ruple as currency.

Our elected officials haven't figured this out. If you compel purchase of a product, you drive its price up. If you restrict manufacture by legislative fiat, you drive the prices in the marketplace up. If you restrict choice through uneven taxes or tariffs, you drive prices up.

If you wish to feed your children fresh fruit and the price of strawberries go up, you consider purchasing blueberries or raspberries. In this way all the available fruit is distributed to willing buyers.

Even in the event of a natural disaster, price fluctuations serve to ration limited resources, increased prices serve to reduce use, and to encourage those who possess excess to bring that excess to market.
While that is Economics 101, lets talk about unscrupulous people who live up to the term "Price Gouging". For example, the recent hurricanes caused some refineries to shut down. Gas prices, even in places the gas was never shipped to when the refineries were operating. Then, when the refineries come back on line, gas prices don't fall until long after the 'pipeline' has been replenished. I remember a power outage that effected a large portion of SE Michigan. Some gas stations outside the outage area raised their prices by a dollar a gallon.

On a different front, let's talk pharmaceutical companies. America, that's right - the entire country, has been getting gouged for drugs for decades. Yes, drugs cost money to research and develop, but that fails to explain why Americans pay for more drugs than any other nation on earth. People living near the Canadian and Mexican boarder can attest to that.

Yes, despite what economics may indicate, gouging does happen. If it's a commodity you can do without, it's merely frustrating, but when it's a commodity you need, like fuel to get to work, or medicine to avoid dying, frustrating doesn't begin to describe the problem.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:23 PM
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While that is Economics 101, lets talk about unscrupulous people who live up to the term "Price Gouging". For example, the recent hurricanes caused some refineries to shut down. Gas prices, even in places the gas was never shipped to when the refineries were operating. Then, when the refineries come back on line, gas prices don't fall until long after the 'pipeline' has been replenished. I remember a power outage that effected a large portion of SE Michigan. Some gas stations outside the outage area raised their prices by a dollar a gallon.

On a different front, let's talk pharmaceutical companies. America, that's right - the entire country, has been getting gouged for drugs for decades. Yes, drugs cost money to research and develop, but that fails to explain why Americans pay for more drugs than any other nation on earth. People living near the Canadian and Mexican boarder can attest to that.

Yes, despite what economics may indicate, gouging does happen. If it's a commodity you can do without, it's merely frustrating, but when it's a commodity you need, like fuel to get to work, or medicine to avoid dying, frustrating doesn't begin to describe the problem.
Reverse order...

By definition a commodity is an analagous product. By definition commodities can be substituted. Apples, Pears, Peaches. Sugar, Corn Syrup. Beef, pork, turkey. Rice, wheat, corn. When prices rise reflecting increased demand and/or decreased supply those with the greatest flexibility adjust thier purchases. This spreads the price increase over a greater set of buyers moderating price and ensuring efficient use of resources.

Neither pharmacuticals nor energy is sold on a free and open market.

Government regulations establishing protocols for the safe development of pharmacutical products, government patents to ensure those who invest in the research and development costs of pharmacuticals enjoy handsome returns on investment, government regulation establishing standards for doctors, nurses, pharmacists, the storage and distribution of pharmacuticals all drive up the costs.

Massive government contracts to purchase pharmacuticals for the VA, Medicare, and Medicaide and similar State programs establish a floor price for particular pharmacutical products in this country.

You can buy Indian manufactured copies of under US patent medication for pennies on the US dollar in many countries. It has been reverse engineered or manufactufed to known but protected formulas. This cost plus pricing is possible because none of the development or regulation costs are recouped by the Indian manufacturer. You are not paying for a government established and inspected public health system. Usually no licencing fee is paid. Investors do not recoup.

You can buy pharmacuticals in Central America and Mexico, even pharmacuticals manufactured in the USA for much less than they cost here. You can buy them in a completely unregulated market, at a grocery store from the high school student at the till, if you are lucky they have been stored correctly and have not been cut or adulterated, which in large part is why they are so much less expensive there.

While the US government forbids its agencies to negotiate discounts with pharmacutical makers, Canada does the opposite, pitting vendors against each other to secure huge contracts for the lowest price per unit delivered.

Result, high pharacutical prices.

The infrastructure required to distill raw oil into usable products, and the infrastructure required to create and transmit electrical power are heavilly regulated by the Federal and State government. The only thing people seem to agree on is they don't want powerplants (dams, coal, gas or nuclear) don't want power transmission lines, don't want fracking, drilling on or off shore, don't want pipelines and certainly don't want oil tankers or refineries.

As a consequence there is almost no elasticity in our energy supply. Each spring when government mandated formulations change, there is a price spike due to increased costs attributable to changes in an inelastic supply line. Any disaster which shuts down a powerplant or a refinery or disrupts the normal transmission of power creates locsl scarcity.

If we all received all of our power from charcoal braziers, a hurricane or other disater would destroy braziers and stored fuel and disrupt transport. But in a market enconomy entrepreneurs from both afflicted areas and adjacent areas with a surplus would work hard to profit by moving fuel to where it was needed. Prices would rise, but would be constrained by the fact that lots of entrepreneurs were competing against each other to sell fuel and braziers. Prices would rise most in the afflicted area, but also in areas fuel was shipped from helping moderate the rise in the afflicted area.

With our mandated and regulated energy grid and our regulated fuel refining and distributing system inelasticity causes greater shortages at the epicenter of a disaster, those shortages last longer, and prices rise more as a result.

Increased demand in adjoining areas caused by those in the afflicted area traveling to obtain fuel, and those in the adjoining area who 'top off' to avoid inabillity to obtain fuel later require the sellers to go onto the more expensive spot market to obtain increased supply. The ripple increases fuel prices into more areas but again serves to moderate increases by spreading them over a wider area.

Unlike WW2 era rationing, price increases on fuel give purchasers choices on how to respond. Nobody likes higher prices, but they can be absorbed more readily than non supply.

Next week, how the lowly pencil contributes to world peace.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:38 AM
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Since you guys are enjoying this debate, I'll move this to The Lounge.
You're cluttering up my office.


My answer still stands-
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That forum probably initiated that policy when a hot new FN item was first being offered and gougers were selling the first few available above retail.
I can only assume those willing to pay the gouger's price want it bad enough to do so. Actually, they have the right to do so if they prefer the time value to the dollar value, but most of us do get incensed when we see it happening.

S&W seldom has an item that hot that is in short supply.
We'll continue with a laissez-faire approach to pricing and let the buyers and the market set the level.
You all CAN handle your own affairs without a nanny, can't you?
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:02 AM
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EXACTLY!
There is NO such thing as price gouging. Something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay, no more, no less.
The term "Price Gouging" normally applies whenever an essential item, such as food or gasoline, is priced far beyond its usual price under emergency conditions to take advantage of a situation in which the purchaser has no choice. There were some reported cases of both gasoline and bottled water price gouging in the Houston area as a result of the recent hurricane. It doesn't work so well in normal circumstances, especially regarding guns and other discretionary items, as the law of supply and demand sets prices.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:59 AM
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NO. Absolutely NO.

I can't believe this even requires such lengthy expounding on economics as some of you have felt compelled to deliver.

Here on the forum, covering all things S&W, we are dealing with nothing anybody needs, in the sense that anybody could buy another brand if they found the S&W product offered too expensive.

So for the benefit of weak people who just have to have what they really don't have to have, and may therefore be vulnerable to being overcharged, the OP is asking for PRICE CONTROLS imposed from above?

You've got to be kidding.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:01 PM
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I guess we COULD consider pricing limits on food, water, gas masks, gasoline, chain saws, tarps, diapers, and feminine hygiene products.
Would that be enough?
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:17 PM
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I guess we COULD consider pricing limits on food, water, gas masks, gasoline, chain saws, tarps, diapers, and feminine hygiene products.
Would that be enough?
I have no objection to pricing limits on feminine hygiene products or, for now at least, diapers, since I don't anticipate a need for those. I would rather you leave the others alone.

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Old 09-20-2017, 12:17 PM
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So, is ya' fer the OP, or agin him?

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Reverse order...

By definition a commodity is an analagous product. By definition commodities can be substituted. Apples, Pears, Peaches. Sugar, Corn Syrup. Beef, pork, turkey. Rice, wheat, corn. When prices rise reflecting increased demand and/or decreased supply those with the greatest flexibility adjust thier purchases. This spreads the price increase over a greater set of buyers moderating price and ensuring efficient use of resources.

Neither pharmacuticals nor energy is sold on a free and open market.

Government regulations establishing protocols for the safe development of pharmacutical products, government patents to ensure those who invest in the research and development costs of pharmacuticals enjoy handsome returns on investment, government regulation establishing standards for doctors, nurses, pharmacists, the storage and distribution of pharmacuticals all drive up the costs.

Massive government contracts to purchase pharmacuticals for the VA, Medicare, and Medicaide and similar State programs establish a floor price for particular pharmacutical products in this country.

You can buy Indian manufactured copies of under US patent medication for pennies on the US dollar in many countries. It has been reverse engineered or manufactufed to known but protected formulas. This cost plus pricing is possible because none of the development or regulation costs are recouped by the Indian manufacturer. You are not paying for a government established and inspected public health system. Usually no licencing fee is paid. Investors do not recoup.

You can buy pharmacuticals in Central America and Mexico, even pharmacuticals manufactured in the USA for much less than they cost here. You can buy them in a completely unregulated market, at a grocery store from the high school student at the till, if you are lucky they have been stored correctly and have not been cut or adulterated, which in large part is why they are so much less expensive there.

While the US government forbids its agencies to negotiate discounts with pharmacutical makers, Canada does the opposite, pitting vendors against each other to secure huge contracts for the lowest price per unit delivered.

Result, high pharacutical prices.

The infrastructure required to distill raw oil into usable products, and the infrastructure required to create and transmit electrical power are heavilly regulated by the Federal and State government. The only thing people seem to agree on is they don't want powerplants (dams, coal, gas or nuclear) don't want power transmission lines, don't want fracking, drilling on or off shore, don't want pipelines and certainly don't want oil tankers or refineries.

As a consequence there is almost no elasticity in our energy supply. Each spring when government mandated formulations change, there is a price spike due to increased costs attributable to changes in an inelastic supply line. Any disaster which shuts down a powerplant or a refinery or disrupts the normal transmission of power creates locsl scarcity.

If we all received all of our power from charcoal braziers, a hurricane or other disater would destroy braziers and stored fuel and disrupt transport. But in a market enconomy entrepreneurs from both afflicted areas and adjacent areas with a surplus would work hard to profit by moving fuel to where it was needed. Prices would rise, but would be constrained by the fact that lots of entrepreneurs were competing against each other to sell fuel and braziers. Prices would rise most in the afflicted area, but also in areas fuel was shipped from helping moderate the rise in the afflicted area.

With our mandated and regulated energy grid and our regulated fuel refining and distributing system inelasticity causes greater shortages at the epicenter of a disaster, those shortages last longer, and prices rise more as a result.

Increased demand in adjoining areas caused by those in the afflicted area traveling to obtain fuel, and those in the adjoining area who 'top off' to avoid inabillity to obtain fuel later require the sellers to go onto the more expensive spot market to obtain increased supply. The ripple increases fuel prices into more areas but again serves to moderate increases by spreading them over a wider area.

Unlike WW2 era rationing, price increases on fuel give purchasers choices on how to respond. Nobody likes higher prices, but they can be absorbed more readily than non supply.

Next week, how the lowly pencil contributes to world peace.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:21 PM
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I guess we COULD consider pricing limits on food, water, gas masks, gasoline, chain saws, tarps, diapers, and feminine hygiene products.
Would that be enough?
I'm not concerned about price controls on feminine hygiene products, but I sure wish there was some kind of control over the advertising of them. Same thing for ED meds.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:29 PM
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Actually, there is such a thing. Price gouging is a pejorative term defined by when a seller spikes the prices of an item to an amount much higher than is reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, to an unethical extent.

Certainly it is to be expected on sites where the primary purposes are buying and selling. However, forums should be places where sincere, ethical and accurate information is exchanged, otherwise they become arenas for less than fair (deceitful?) sellers.
I have a built in price gouging moderator.....if the price is too high, I don't buy it.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:30 PM
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I guess we COULD consider pricing limits on food, water, gas masks, gasoline, chain saws, tarps, diapers, and feminine hygiene products.
Would that be enough?
It has worked well in Venuzeula, Cuba, East Germany, Soviet Union, why not here.

PS: regarding clearing your office, Mom told me a clean desk is the sign of a dirty mind.

Hold it, something wrong at Rand McNally can't seem to find East Germany or Soviet Union on thier maps....

Miss Muggins, I am neither for nor agin' Economics. Just as I am neither for or agin' gravity ( or physics or chemistry ) they are what they are. Step off a cliff, even non-believers fall.

When you buy a pharmacutical in the USA you pay for the ingredeints (both actual cost and the cost of an extensive regulatory system that guarantees that every input is unadulterated, properly stored and properly transported.) You pay for the research and development (both acual cost and cost associated with meeting stringent standards on same.) You pay for delivery to patients through the regulation of doctors, nurses, pharmacists etc. You pay for return on dollars invested (guaranteed by patents).

There are few or no controls in Mexico or India. (When was the last time you heard of the deaths of an entire school full of children who ate lunch cooked in peticide laced cooking oil, was it in India or Indiana?). Good, bad, indifferent, it is a cost.
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Old 09-20-2017, 02:03 PM
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Price controls work great!

Remember Gerald Ford's stunning success with WIN?
  #29  
Old 09-20-2017, 02:36 PM
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I have a built in price gouging moderator.....
Many here have those. They're called "Wives".
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:31 PM
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"Price gouging"???

If the price is too high, don't buy it.

This "snowflake" culture has really gotten out of hand.

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Old 09-20-2017, 05:18 PM
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Many here have those. They're called "Wives".
Yeah.....I run it by her only after it passes my price gouging scanner. Hers seems to be much more sensitive.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:37 PM
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During both WWI and WWII price controls were implemented in the USA on many products and services. During WWII there were additionally rationing of certain items and wage controls imposed, largely because price controls alone didn't work that well. Those measures were largely ineffective other than in creating artificial shortages.

During WWII, gasoline rationing was implemented but was never really necessary. There was plenty of oil for both war needs and civilian users. The real reason was to preserve rubber supplies, rubber being needed to make tires (which were also rationed). Until the technology of synthetic rubber was perfected, there was only natural rubber, much of which came from areas controlled by the Japanese, such as Malaya.
  #33  
Old 09-20-2017, 06:39 PM
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Under certain circumstances, like wartime, and concerning goods that are of strategic importance, price controls or other ways to manipulate demand can be necessary. The crucial criterium is NEED.

The term "price gouging" can be justified if someone exploits, to the point of causing suffering and harm, the fact that he controls a product that other people genuinely need and cannot do without or substitute.

By definition, nothing offered for sale on a gun forum could ever fall into that category. For the kind of things forum members try to sell, they have no social obligation to keep prices low. If you have something that's suddenly "hot" in demand and that you can sell for an unusually high price, good for you. "Price gouger"? I'd just say "Lucky guy".
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:54 PM
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NO. Absolutely NO.

I can't believe this even requires such lengthy expounding on economics as some of you have felt compelled to deliver.

Here on the forum, covering all things S&W, we are dealing with nothing anybody needs, in the sense that anybody could buy another brand if they found the S&W product offered too expensive.

So for the benefit of weak people who just have to have what they really don't have to have, and may therefore be vulnerable to being overcharged, the OP is asking for PRICE CONTROLS imposed from above?

You've got to be kidding.
Looks like you did not take the time to read my post. No where and and at no time did I ask the admins here to do anything. Being on this forum for a few years and seeing a few items that were priced far above fair market value to the point of what some might consider unethical, and perhaps to the point of doing a disservice to a new member that may have been looking for that item, I merely thought it interesting how another forum was handling that and as I said in my original post "just sharing a thought". I know sometimes people here get a little carried away with their own beliefs when someone tries to share a thought that may not be the accepted norm or in line with their thinking, but again, was "just sharing a thought", not asking the admins to do anything, let everyone's conscience be their guides so to speak; and I still do believe that an approach of discouraging such behavior on the part of a seller does serve the interest of what a forum should be about, which, at least to me, means sharing accurate information and treating other members in a fair and ethical manner, not trying to scam anyone. In any event, I am glad to see that my post brought forth some interesting thoughts that others had to share on the subject, and I hope that such sharing of thoughts and ideas can still be done here without getting peoples panties in a twist.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:58 PM
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Looks like you did not take the time to read my post. No where and and at no time did I ask the admins here to do anything. Being on this forum for a few years and seeing a few items that were priced far above fair market value to the point of what some might consider unethical, and perhaps to the point of doing a disservice to a new member that may have been looking for that item, I merely thought it interesting how another forum was handling that and as I said in my original post "just sharing a thought". I know sometimes people here get a little carried away with their own beliefs when someone tries to share a thought that may not be the accepted norm or in line with their thinking, but again, was "just sharing a thought", not asking the admins to do anything, let everyone's conscience be their guides so to speak; and I still do believe that an approach of discouraging such behavior on the part of a seller does serve the interest of what a forum should be about, which, at least to me, means sharing accurate information and treating other members in a fair and ethical manner, not trying to scam anyone. In any event, I am glad to see that my post brought forth some interesting thoughts that others had to share on the subject, and I hope that such sharing of thoughts and ideas can still be done here without getting peoples panties in a twist.
I read it. Couldn't understand how it related to the OP. You wisecracked, I moved on. Still don't understand your comment in relationship to the OP . . .
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  #36  
Old 09-20-2017, 11:01 PM
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this forum aint the place for snowflakes.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:04 AM
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I sense a MAJOR drift has occurred.

How can you price gouge a FN firearm.??
Yes, they make some fine products but the company has been gouging or overpricing them for ever!
The "new" polymer pistols are no better than the others out there. The FN 5.7 is "allocated" and limited production to keep the price high. Whats. the MSRP for a SCAR??
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Looks like you did not take the time to read my post. No where and and at no time did I ask the admins here to do anything. Being on this forum for a few years and seeing a few items that were priced far above fair market value to the point of what some might consider unethical, and perhaps to the point of doing a disservice to a new member that may have been looking for that item, I merely thought it interesting how another forum was handling that and as I said in my original post "just sharing a thought".....
Your concern for your hypothetical new nember is touching and your elocution admirable, but your original post makes it quite clear that you are "sharing this thought" quite approvingly. You are, and again in this latest post, trying to obfuscate your advocacy behind this long-winded talk about just sharing how you found it interesting how another forum bla-bla ...., but you clearly think it would be a good idea.

Nothing wrong with that, but if you post a suggestion like this on a discussion forum, you are going to get a discussion.

And the further your suggestion moves from generally accepted values and norms, the more blowback you will get.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:46 PM
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Rule #2. Remember- opinions will differ. Get over it. State your opinion calmly, and allow others to state theirs. Discussion will be fine, but there is no need to take a thread into a verbal fistfight or shouting match.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:02 PM
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I mean, really, if you are on this forum you already have a device capable of delivering to you all the information you need to make a good purchacing decision.

At the local LGS you see a beautiful S&W model 0-2/3. Guy wants $350 for it. Look on line, lots of sites, there is a big one out of Atlanta I google a lot, is $350 high, middle, low?

Buy it, try to haggle, don't buy it. But don't complain you are being gouged if they are avalible online for $250. Buy it there, have it shipped ($35) pay the transfer fee ($35) and be happy you saved $100.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:26 PM
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Rule #2. Remember- opinions will differ. Get over it. State your opinion calmly, and allow others to state theirs. Discussion will be fine, but there is no need to take a thread into a verbal fistfight or shouting match.

Drifting... Off topic... plus as an added bonus ^^^^^^

We're done, thank you all for your opinions, comments, and most of all your time.
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