Berns-Martin score today

FinnMike · #1 05-16-2010, 01:26 AM

Went on a long bike ride and way stopped by one of my honey-holes. Found this Berns-Martin in the holster box and got it for a very good price, since I also laid back a C**t New Service in 44-40. The holster fits one of my 6 inch 5-screw Smiths very well, likely its intended revolver. Other than the top belt loop stitching it's in pretty good shape, although it's for a lefty, and I'm a righty. Been a long time since I've seen one of these. On the way back a WSP trooper followed me for about a mile wondering what was sticking out of my bike jersey... :-0

JayCeeNC · #2 05-16-2010, 02:28 AM

Great find!
I've never seen one marked that way with the patent number instead of the B-M logo, though.
Maybe turnerriver (John Witty, holster guru) will be along and comment on it.

Dan Cash · #3 05-16-2010, 08:10 AM

What ever happened to the Berns-Martin line. I understood that Bianchi bought them and then dropped the design. A shame as they were a secure but extremely fast rig.

jimmyj · #4 05-16-2010, 09:25 AM

Hi:
Many eons ago I used Berns-Martin holsters for duty and off duty.
The duty holsters had a snap safety strap about three inches down from the holster tops. Awesome holster. The shoulder holsters were great also.
Jimmy

n4zov · #5 05-16-2010, 11:01 AM

I have a BM holster for my 4" M19, and it is blazing fast if properly secured on a good gun belt. BM's are homely looking, but they wern't called "Speed Holsters" for nothing!

turnerriver · #6 05-16-2010, 11:26 AM

John, not sure I'm fit to be any kind of guru but I do have a few Berns-Martins marked with patent numbers.Jack Berns was in Bremerton,Washington when he patented the design for the Berns-Martin holster & I've assumed(yes,I know what assumed means)that these early B-M holsters were made there before operations in Calhoun City began.An article by Elmer Keith in the June 1932 American Rifleman states that Berns & Martin were not going to patent their design-they subsequently did,of course.Keith gives an address in Bremerton to send orders to.Jack Berns filed for a patent on Sept. 6,1932 & patent number 2001321 was granted May 14,1935.
The patent number on this holster was granted to E.E. Clark on Sept. 13,1932-it shows the bottom band which is not a feature on the Berns-Martins I have from that time period.The holsters I have from that time period have both patent numbers on them.This holster,IMHO, is a very early Berns-Martin-early 1930's is my guess.The holsters shown in Keith's 1932 AR article are very much like the more common Berns-Martin holsters withouth the bottom band on the holster shown here.I first thought the band was an added repair-the basketweave pattern looks different,as does the border stamping-but maybe not.If you have too much time on your hands,as I clearly do this rainy Sunday,look up the patents.
Regards,
turnerriver
John Witty
SWCA # 1426
NRA Endowment Life member

JayCeeNC · #7 05-16-2010, 12:58 PM

turnerriver, your vast knowledge of all thing holster-y contradicts the statement that you aren't a guru!
Thanks for the historical info.
I've researched the patents on the clamshells but never on the B-M line. I think we have determined the year when B-M moved from Mississippi to Georgia, but I don't have access to all of my documents currently.

FinnMike · #8 05-16-2010, 06:11 PM

Tough crowd here....:-). Good points made re the construction. I believe this holster has been modified by addition of a closed-end that almost matches, not quite. The photos tell the tale.

Basket stamping is close, but clearly does not match the original. The original muzzle end was open, and upon close inspection shows rounding. The stitching on the belt loop may have been done to raise and tighten the loop on the belt. Thanks all, the following pics explain the rest.

rednichols · #9 07-15-2015, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnerriver

John, not sure I'm fit to be any kind of guru but I do have a few Berns-Martins marked with patent numbers.Jack Berns was in Bremerton,Washington when he patented the design for the Berns-Martin holster & I've assumed(yes,I know what assumed means)that these early B-M holsters were made there before operations in Calhoun City began.An article by Elmer Keith in the June 1932 American Rifleman states that Berns & Martin were not going to patent their design-they subsequently did,of course.Keith gives an address in Bremerton to send orders to.Jack Berns filed for a patent on Sept. 6,1932 & patent number 2001321 was granted May 14,1935.
The patent number on this holster was granted to E.E. Clark on Sept. 13,1932-it shows the bottom band which is not a feature on the Berns-Martins I have from that time period.The holsters I have from that time period have both patent numbers on them.This holster,IMHO, is a very early Berns-Martin-early 1930's is my guess.The holsters shown in Keith's 1932 AR article are very much like the more common Berns-Martin holsters withouth the bottom band on the holster shown here.I first thought the band was an added repair-the basketweave pattern looks different,as does the border stamping-but maybe not.If you have too much time on your hands,as I clearly do this rainy Sunday,look up the patents.
Regards,
turnerriver
John Witty
SWCA # 1426
NRA Endowment Life member

Old thread, John, but thought you'd like to surmise with me that the marking of the Clark patent on early B-Ms, which also predated the Berns patent, is an indication that the latter took a license from the former; and likely under legal duress. Clark was a prolific inventor of holsters and patented them often. And perhaps he read the American Rifleman :-)

turnerriver · #10 07-16-2015, 12:19 PM

Red, I know nothing about patents and patent law so I was confused when I first looked up the numbers. It sounds like what you're surmising makes sense. Clark certainly had ideas about springs and holsters. I wish I could talk to some of the old makers and am glad I get the chance to communicate with someone of your caliber-you're getting to be an old maker yourself and the caliber pun was intended.
Regards,
turnerriver

rednichols · #11 07-16-2015, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnerriver

Red, I know nothing about patents and patent law so I was confused when I first looked up the numbers. It sounds like what you're surmising makes sense. Clark certainly had ideas about springs and holsters. I wish I could talk to some of the old makers and am glad I get the chance to communicate with someone of your caliber-you're getting to be an old maker yourself and the caliber pun was intended.
Regards,
turnerriver

Edward Clark is the early man, Earl Clark came afterwards; both made significant contributions. The man who got away in your 'holstory' search (I coined this word) was Al Kippen, because he worked for Gould & Goodrich after working with Smith & Wesson Holster, which was Wolfram Holster so he'd have worked with Wally Wolfram, and previously with Bucheimer, and what may have been Heiser-Keyston because he came back to Heiser in one of its forms after co-founding Colorado Saddlery, after working with Heiser until it was sold in 1945, having started at Heiser at what appears to be 1928, so he would have known all the Heiser sons, who themselves learned their holster trade from H.H.H. Himself, and Hermann was there for the first holsters for the first revolvers such as the Walker in 1848!

I speculate that Kippen was the designer behind Heiser's 457 holster for the FBI, even if perhaps it was Myers who may have in fact been first with his version. In 1939 it appears Kippen would have been 26 y/o and in later years he earned many holster patents. I was earning holster patents at that age, so he could well have been innovating that young. Al and I would have crossed paths at some point during the post 1968 years because all his employers were Bianchi competitors, but he was gone from GnG by the time they were one of my many clients in the 90s. Al's successor was Will Perry, whom I did spend time with.

Wyatt Burp · #12 07-20-2015, 07:17 PM

Wow. Back when this thread came out I told FinnMike to put me at the front of the line to buy it if he ever sold it. He told me he had me in mind when he bought it and he was giving it to me. All that just from knowing I was a lefty and made holsters and might like it. We had never spoken here before. What a guy. I have one S&W that fits it, but this works, too, though tight at the trigger guard.