I thought you might like to see an original 1912 swivel holster, WWI mag pouch and pistol belt. Surrounding it are four Model 1911 .45 pistols.

The pistols are, clockwise from upper left: Colt, Springfield Armory, an A.J. Savage slide rework, and Remington-UMC.

This pic is not as clear as I would like, but it was taken 10 years ago with a 35mm camera and slide film. I recently bought a slide viewer/digital camera attachment to resurrect some original photos, so I thought I'd try it out.

These relics are approaching 100 years old now; this should give you some idea of what our forebears fought with in the "war to end all wars."

Just a note on how I acquired the holster. I was then living in El Paso, Texas, and had paid a visit to El Paso Saddlery, a long-time maker of holsters dating back to the 1800s. They were showing me some reproduction .45 swivel holsters, and I asked what they did to insure that they were authentic reproductions. The owner (now deceased, bless him), went to the back of the shop and came back with this original holster that they had used as a pattern. As I am also a collector of U.S. military artifacts, I expressed interest in owning one of these original WWI holsters. He allowed as how he might part with it; I made him a fair offer and he accepted. I still have it today; I've not seen another in many years.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Was the guy at El Paso Bob McNellis? I knew him slightly and wrote a profile of his holsters in, "Gun Week."

I was astounded when he told me later that he'd gotten more response from that review than he'd had from some written for, "Shooting Times" by Skeeter Skelton!

Were those M-1912 holsters still made after the M-1916 model was adopted? I've never been able to find the answer to that question.

It wouldn't amaze me if some were used in WW II.

I think El Paso Saddlery still makes that model.

[QUOTE=PALADIN85020;136509321]
These relics are approaching 100 years old now; this should give you some idea of what our forebears fought with in the "war to end all wars."


That was a long time back, and those pistols are indeed relics, but they were pretty doggone well-armed with a 1911. I love to read Sgt. Alvin York's account of his use of the pistol during his MOH event.

__________________
Georgia On My Mind

Nice pics and post. The cartridge pouch might be EXTREMELY collectible as it appears to be the "Pre-WWI" "pea-green" and not "khaki". That and the eagle-button snaps versus the "lift-the-dot" snaps should make it a 1913 to 1915 vintage. Very rare and only a few made before the Army went to the later versions.

Is the belt marked as to date?

__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.

Yes, Bobby McNellis was the owner at the time - that was pretty close to 30 years ago. His son Ryan runs the business now that Bobby has passed on.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Neither the belt nor the pouch are marked in any way. The belt is definitely an old-timer; it shows a lot of wear. The holster is marked "R.I.A." over "1915." I knew the eagle-snap pea-green pouches pre-dated WWI, but I didn't know they were that rare.

I believe the Model 1912 swivel holster (a couple of variations are known) was made from 1911 to 1916, when the non-swivel version replaced it; that later version was made for over 70 years. There were some replacement swivel assemblies made and dated as late as 1918; these were often fitted to holsters where the swivel failed, as that was the weak point in the design.

As a point of information there were probably 200,000 to 250,000 of the Model 1912 holsters made, but the survival rate has been very low.

I have seen them go at auction from $750 to $1500 in recent years. I'm glad I have one; I have not seen another at gun shows or anywhere else since I bought this one about 30 years ago for $80, which I thought was a lot of money at the time.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Thank you for sharing a bit of our history with us here on the forum. That's a very nice collection.

Blessings,
Hog

__________________
Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

PALADIN85020, I love it when you post this stuff. Thanks.

Picked up a 1912 holster minus the tied en strap about 40 years ago in an antique shop--$5 OTD. Tons of character.

Something that I never figured out was an OD cotton sack-like pouch with tie string that not only fit the 1911 well but obviously had the folds and wear marks to match. It could have originated from anywhere but has a distinct military or factory look as if it were part of the original packaging. Must have picked it up at a gun show long ago and been convinced it had some sort of 1911 association. Seems old enough to be WWI era, and my hunch is that there is a connection. Maybe I'll find out for sure some day.

The 1912 was designed (the last) for the horse cavalry, not for the infantry. Bobby Mc Nellis was a gifted holster maker and one of the nicest people I ever met. A first class guy in every respect.

Cheers;
Lefty

[QUOTE=redlevel;136509806]The bottom right pistol looks like a WWII gun though (1911A1).

But what a fun collection, and a cool holster. Do you shoot these pistols?

__________________
Jon

[QUOTE=bennettfam;136511412]It looks like a 1911 that has had plastic grips and an arched mainspring housing added to it.

You can tell it is a 1911 as opposed to a 1911A1 by the lack of cutouts on the side of the frame, behind the trigger.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Muley - and a short trigger. Don't forget to notice it has a short trigger.

__________________
I always take precautions

What device did you buy?

I recently bought a Canon Canoscan 5600f flatbed scanner for exactly the same reason. So far, I've been very happy with the results. It's got a slide/negative tray that fits in the lid. A light source in the lid backlights the media for scanning.

Regardless of the device you use to digitize the pictures, you're almost guaranteed to have to do some post-processing with something like Adobe Photoshop/Elements or Corel Photopaint.

A few months ago, I posted some scans from 1977 vintage negatives. I think the subject was something like "Blast from the Past", if you want to see the results. I did some limited post-production, but I'm sure that they could be cleaned up much better with a little more effort.

The frame on the bottom right gun is definitely a 1911. It wasn't unusual for these guns to be refitted at the factory with A1 parts. It also wasn't unusual for them to be refitted by home gunsmiths.

Are the magazines on the top right and bottom left guns two toned? The lanyard loops are to retain the magazines while on horseback. They are quite collectible, too.

__________________
Proud anachronism

[QUOTE=redlevel;136509806]I've read his book and visited his home in Tennessee. He was an interesting man and indeed a great hero.

[QUOTE=bennettfam;136511412]The pistol at the lower right of the picture is an A.J. Savage slide rework, one of the rarest .45 pistols. In 1918, the A.J. Savage Munitions Co. of San Diego CA was awarded a contract to make 1911 pistols. The contract was cancelled in December, 1918 after the end of the war; they only produced some parts in the short 3-4 months of actual production. These parts were used in later years for rework purposes.

In the DCM sales in the 1960s, some reworked pistols using mixed parts appeared bearing the A.J. Savage mark on the slides. These were usually on Colt frames, and most had the "AA" rework mark of Augusta Arsenal. This is one of those pistols. It is correct in that it has the Colt 1911 frame, the AA mark and mixed 1911 and 1911A1 parts, using the Savage slide.

A closer look at the slide marking can be found in my album on the 1911 and 1911A1 pistols on this forum.

And no, I don't shoot these pistols, although I could. I have shooters, and I have collector's items. These are the latter.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I looked at several scanners and the reviews on each, none of which really impressed me. I decided on this $45 "white box" no-label device that would allow me to get 16mp copies using my camera as the digital conversion device. I bought it via Amazon from A&R Photo Video Inc. in Brooklyn NY. The slide tray takes 3 different thicknesses of slides, enabling a tight hold, and focus is via the camera. There were several adapter rings to attach the device to different size lenses. I'm using a 50mm Pentax lens with a 49mm front. Here are couple of pictures of the device - one off and one on the camera:





Here are a couple of test conversions from 35mm slides:





I find the device is sharp in the middle of the picture, but has some fuzziness on the edges - I somewhat expected that, given the not-wonderful quality of the magnifying lens. I will experiment a bit using manual settings, and you are right - some post processing is necessary to make things look right. I use Photoshop Elements 10, and work from RAW images.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Those are FAR better than I would have expected from such a device, although I'm sure the Canon would do better, and with less work.

I did a LOT of research before settling on the Canon and I think that was rewarded with the desired results. Besides, I needed a newer flatbed scanner. While your device gets the job done, it's definitely as Alton Brown would say, a "uni-tasker".

John, thank your for sharing. You always have amazing photos and literature/history. Always pleased to read....

Thank you sir.

Here's mine, with a 1918 vintage M 1911. The other picture I have posted before; it's of the company commander, and two platoon leaders of Company C, 107th Infantry in training at Camp Wadsworth, North Carolina in April 1917. My father was a Lewis Gun squad leader in that company.

Attached Images

	L1010722.jpg (85.4 KB, 26 views)
	L1010753.jpg (79.2 KB, 18 views)

The pistol belt appears to be the "light-shade-OD" of WWII vintage. If it were WWI it would be the khaki which appears to be a bit yellow.

Once again a nice collection.

__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.

Look at Cyrano's post just above yours. Is that the WW I shade of belt? My grandfather brought one back from that war.

Don't know whether semperfi is talking about my rig or Paladin's. My belt and magazine pouch are marked LCC& Co, 1918. The holster is marked Rock Island Arsenal, 1915.

I wonder if Rock Island Arsenal was the only maker of the Model 1912 holster?

To the best of my knowledge, Rock Island Arsenal was the only manufacturer of the Model 1912 swivel holster. Of course there are reproductions; El Paso Saddlery makes great ones, using the one I illustrated as the pattern.

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -